Re: Re: preservative in heparin

[Guest guest]

Ron,

Thanks for the info. I talked to Holly Cheney today, and she is going to

talk to Cheney this afternoon to see if I can get all of my injectables in

the 10 cc preservative free vials. Wellness doesn't like to do that, but I

have been taking preservative free allergy shots for years with 15 dose

minimum vials, with no problems. Phenol sends me over the edge, literally.

My EI doc muscled tested me to phenol and I literally fell off the chair at

the slightest arm pressure. I too have a multitude of food allergies so I

fit that bill perfectly.

I take it you do not do the heparin injections, or if you do, have you found

a way around the benzyl alcohol in the heparin. I'm going to try to see if I

can find any preservative free heparin and at least try a few doses without

the preservative to see what effect if any there may or may not be.

Again, thanks,

Donna in NC

Re: preservative in heparin

> Donna,

>

> Very interesting situation you describe. I just went through the

> same exact thing. When I would take the Mg (Preservative free) with

> Taurine (Benzyl Alcohol), I had headaches, fogginess, etc. I knew

> that the Mg was preservative free so I didn't think about a reaction

> to preservatives. I asked Cheney about it at my last appt. and he

> said it definately sounds like a reaction to preservatives

> (especially the " flushing " I described). He also said that with my

> large number of food allergies, it makes sense that I would react to

> a preservative. I called McGuff's where I get my meds. and they

> said that the taurine had benzyl alcohol. I tried a injection w/o

> taurine and no problem - no side effects at all. So I had Cheney

> call in a preservative free taurine script yesterday. I have taken

> kutapressin in the past which has phenol as a preservative and that

> wasn't a problem. McGuff's said that benzyl alcohol should be easier

> to tolerate than phenol, but not in my case.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> Ron Z.

>

>

>

> > About two months back, I posted that I was still having trouble

> with heparin

> > and herxing - headaches, increased fog, particularly. Worse in the

> morning,

> > than in the evenings, but the evening shot usually happens within

> 30 minutes

> > to an hour of my mag/taurine shot and my hydroxy B-12 shot.

> >

> > Today, Wellness Pharmacy called to tell me that they have worked

> out an

> > arrangement with Dr. Cheney's office whereby they can provide 10 ml

> bottles

> > of the magnesium, taurine, procaine and B-12 for approx 40% less

> than

> > previous cost for unit dose vials. The catch is they must have

> preservative

> > in them. I asked what the preservative was, and she mumbled

> something which

> > I thought I had gotten down correctly, but a web search turned up

> nothing

> > with that name - it was benzyl something, but not benzyl alcohol,

> the

> > preservative in heparin. Then I had a sudden thought that maybe I

> was

> > reacting to the benzyl alcohol in the heparin rather than herxing

> on it as I

> > had thought. The B-12 may be detoxing it rather quickly so that

> could

> > explain why the nighttime dose does not impact me so strongly. Any

> of you

> > have any thoughts, or similar reactions to a preservative. Of note

> is that I

> > do not tolerate alcohol ( though I think most of us don't), can't

> even stand

> > its smell on alcohol pads, nor do I tolerate it in any homeopathic

> remedies.

> > I did not tolerate the Sub-Adrene Dr. Cheney recommended, but

> thought that

> > was perhaps the peppermint, although that was purely a guess, but am

> > thinking now it was perhaps the alcohol in the sub-Adrene. Could I

> be that

> > reactive to those small amounts? I don;t think it's an allergic

> reaction,

> > per se`, but a reaction none the less. Any comments?

> >

> > Thanks, Donna in NC

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ron,

I do think Cheney is less aggressive than Berg about the use of

heparin, because it seems like he looks for two other parameters besides a

high fibrinogen before going the heparin route, or a high SFM. My SFM was

not high, although my Fibrinogen was 398 and my PT 1+2 was high, and he

considered me to be borderline. However, I have a strong family history of

clotting disorders, and we did a genetic panel, and my Protein S was low. My

grandmother had her first of several thrombi at approximately my age - mid

40's. My mother was routinely given vitamin K, which would fit in well with

the low Protein S, and we all have severe varicose veins. So he put me on

the heparin.

I too take bromelain and digestive enzymes and turmeric between meals for

the clotting. I can tell you that a few years ago (before I started seeing

Dr. Cheney, I had a small blood clot on the top of my foot, and my EI doc

had me on high doses of bromelain between meals and it did break up the

clot, so I do believe it has a lot to offer. I have not reacted to it -

either then or now, although I have found that I often have diarrhea an hour

or so after the enzymes/bromo/turmeric doses. I really don't mind, because

up until now my bowels did not work at all, and my EI doc was concerned that

the paresis might not be as temporary as we were thinking ( 5 years is a

long time ). There is still much GI work to be done, as the diarrhea is not

a good thing over the long haul, but for the moment, it is not worrying

me.Is there any way you can be tested to see if you are allergic to it? Are

you taking any of the immune modulators? I agree it doesn't seem likely

that bromo alone would cause herxing, and I don't remember herxing when I

took it before, but I was pretty sick, and remember little of the past five

years. I do think though, that most of us take many supplements, immune

modulators, herbal preparations, homeopathic remedies, and such, which could

act in an antiviral or antibacterial fashion upon the body, and once the

fibrin deposits are cleared, thereby potentially exposing any hidden

pathogens, these substances, or perhaps our own immune cells, if we aren't

too damaged, could indeed go after the exposed pathogens, thus creating

herxing symptoms. Have you separated out the bromo from the enzymes and the

turmeric to make sure it isn't one of them? Plant enzymes are derived from

molds, so I use pork based enzymes, as plant enzymes cause severe allergic

reactions in me. I don't know about turmeric's allergy potential, but it is

a plant, and if you have lots of food allergies, it's a potential as well as

bromelain. I think someone on one of my other lists said she couldn't take

bromelain that was in her enzymes, and had to switch because of it.

I had spoken with Cheney previously about switching over to McGuff's, and

had decided to do it when my current prescriptions run out. This refill they

were working on yesterday was the last. I should be switching over next

month.

Donna in NC

Re: preservative in heparin

> Donna,

>

> I don't do heparin. Dr. Cheney feels like I don't need it although I have

some clotting (immune activated clotting). 339 Fibrinogen and 47 CD62P.

Everything else normal on Hemex test. He asked about family history for

strokes, heart disease and he feels I don't have genetic clotting, so don't

need heparin. Does this make sense?

He wants me to take bromelain and digestive enzymes between meals and

tumeric for the clotting. The problem as I discovered today is that I must

be allergic to bromelain. I though I might be herxing, but it feels a lot

like the allergy response I had to the benzyl alcohol. Have you tried (or

anyone else for that matter) bromelain and reacted

to it. I read a lot of the old posts on bromelain and many people felt

worse on it and attributed it to herxing, but unless they were taking

antibiotics w/ it, I don't think they would be herxing.

You should try McGuff's Pharmacy. I get B-12 and will be getting taurine in

10 ml preservative free vials. I think they are less expensive than

Wellness also. Phone number = 877-444-1155

[Guest guest]

Ron,

Reactions to foods are sometimes very difficult to distinguish from other

symptoms. I suffer from that all the time. Sometimes the reaction is so

immediate upon ingesting food, you know it's a reaction - for example, I

have asthma, and a big hallmark for me is sudden breathing difficulties I

was not experiencing before, usually within 15 - 20 minutes. Sometimes it's

sudden diarrhea, again, usually within a few minutes of eating. I can fall

asleep, or lose control of my head before my dinner plate has even been

moved off the table. Sometimes you can pick up these responses with a

corresponding increase in your heart rate. Some other symptoms could be

sudden headache, achy joints that weren't aching before, fatigue and

weakness, greater than before. I try to note how I feel before and after

dinner, and see if I notice any change. Those are immediate reaction type

allergies.

However, there can be delayed reactions, and these are the hardest to tell.

They may not hit for several hours later, often GI symptoms such as bloating

( but that might be yeast or other critters just eating your undigested

meal), headaches, hives/rashes or itching, such as often the case with

strawberries and shellfish. Nightshades, such as potatoes, tomatoes,

eggplant, peppers are often the culprits for achy joints, and can take

several days to months to totally clear your body. Most allergic reactions

to foods clear your body in about 4 days. So that becomes my rule for

testing something out - if I think it is bothering me, I will exclude it for

at least five days or more, then add it back in, all by itself. See if you

get the same reaction, or any kind of reaction to it. Cheapest initial test

is exclusionary - eliminate from your diet the most common allergenic foods

and anything else you think might be bothering you - e.g. corn, all dairy,

wheat, peanuts, oranges, caffeine, sugar, chocolate, eggs, then add them

back in at a rate of no faster than one food every five days, taking care to

try to eat that food alone to see how you react to it. Remember, that often,

the foods you crave the most are often the foods you are most allergic too.

A nasty little irony, but easily explained.

When I first crashed, the allergies became so overwhelming all at once, and

I was losing weight much too fast despite eating like a horse, that I needed

to be tested, and I have taken food allergy shots for almost 5 years now.

They have helped immensely in cutting down the severity of reactions,

allowing me to slowly gain a little weight back...

My suggestion to you at the moment would be to stop the bromelain until you

are sure you are through with the withdrawal effects of the Zoloft. Then add

the bromelain back slowly, and see if you get the same reactions. Make no

other changes in your diet, food or supplement wise, or environment wise if

you are sensitive to changing environments, so that you will have the

clearest picture you can. Also, once you are clear of the Zoloft, perhaps

you can find someone who does kinesiology locally that would be willing to

test a couple of substances for you - one you know you don't react to, and

the bromelain. Put them in same size containers so you won't know which is

which, and see if that tells you anything. I have done that before with

pretty good luck.

Hope this helps. If in doubt, talk to Cheney.

Donna in NC

Re: preservative in heparin

> Donna,

>

> Thanks for the reply. I am not sure if I am reacting to the

> bromelain or not. I have taken it in the past in smaller doses w/o

> problems. I am also now in the process of getting off of zoloft

> which I was on for 6 years. I am down to 5 mg -have been ramping

> down very slowly, and although I have been at this dose for about 3

> weeks, the effects may be kicking in now. It may just be a

> coincidence with the timing of the bromelain. Getting off of the

> zolft has been the hardest thing I have had to do.

>

> Food allergies, at least in this severe of a form, are new to me, so

> I really have trouble distinguishing them. When you react to foods,

> do you have GI problems? What are your symptoms? I have not had any

> GI symptoms with the bromelain, so maybe I am not reacting.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Ron Z.

>

>

>

>

> > Hi Ron,

> > I do think Cheney is less aggressive than Berg about the use

> of

> > heparin, because it seems like he looks for two other parameters

> besides a

> > high fibrinogen before going the heparin route, or a high SFM. My

> SFM was

> > not high, although my Fibrinogen was 398 and my PT 1+2 was high,

> and he

> > considered me to be borderline. However, I have a strong family

> history of

> > clotting disorders, and we did a genetic panel, and my Protein S

> was low. My

> > grandmother had her first of several thrombi at approximately my

> age - mid

> > 40's. My mother was routinely given vitamin K, which would fit in

> well with

> > the low Protein S, and we all have severe varicose veins. So he put

> me on

> > the heparin.

> >

> > I too take bromelain and digestive enzymes and turmeric between

> meals for

> > the clotting. I can tell you that a few years ago (before I started

> seeing

> > Dr. Cheney, I had a small blood clot on the top of my foot, and my

> EI doc

> > had me on high doses of bromelain between meals and it did break up

> the

> > clot, so I do believe it has a lot to offer. I have not reacted to

> it -

> > either then or now, although I have found that I often have

> diarrhea an hour

> > or so after the enzymes/bromo/turmeric doses. I really don't mind,

> because

> > up until now my bowels did not work at all, and my EI doc was

> concerned that

> > the paresis might not be as temporary as we were thinking ( 5 years

> is a

> > long time ). There is still much GI work to be done, as the

> diarrhea is not

> > a good thing over the long haul, but for the moment, it is not

> worrying

> > me.Is there any way you can be tested to see if you are allergic to

> it? Are

> > you taking any of the immune modulators? I agree it doesn't seem

> likely

> > that bromo alone would cause herxing, and I don't remember herxing

> when I

> > took it before, but I was pretty sick, and remember little of the

> past five

> > years. I do think though, that most of us take many supplements,

> immune

> > modulators, herbal preparations, homeopathic remedies, and such,

> which could

> > act in an antiviral or antibacterial fashion upon the body, and

> once the

> > fibrin deposits are cleared, thereby potentially exposing any hidden

> > pathogens, these substances, or perhaps our own immune cells, if we

> aren't

> > too damaged, could indeed go after the exposed pathogens, thus

> creating

> > herxing symptoms. Have you separated out the bromo from the enzymes

> and the

> > turmeric to make sure it isn't one of them? Plant enzymes are

> derived from

> > molds, so I use pork based enzymes, as plant enzymes cause severe

> allergic

> > reactions in me. I don't know about turmeric's allergy potential,

> but it is

> > a plant, and if you have lots of food allergies, it's a potential

> as well as

> > bromelain. I think someone on one of my other lists said she

> couldn't take

> > bromelain that was in her enzymes, and had to switch because of it.

> >

> > I had spoken with Cheney previously about switching over to

> McGuff's, and

> > had decided to do it when my current prescriptions run out. This

> refill they

> > were working on yesterday was the last. I should be switching over

> next

> > month.

> >

> > Donna in NC

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Glad you are feeling better, Ron. If these food allergies keep getting

worse, you may want to think about food testing, to make sure you don't end

up in a bad situation sometime. Don't go to traditional allergists, though.

Use an EI doc or do NAET or any of those alternative methods. Just MHO, of

course.

Donna

Re: preservative in heparin

> Donna,

>

> Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I have stopped the

bromelain and feel much better. I was reacting to it.

>

> Thanks again,

>

> Ron