Re: WHOA! Am I herxing or what???

[Guest guest]

sounds ike the doxy..everyone herxes on the antibiotics..for

mycoplasma???barbara

[Guest guest]

I personally never herx'ed on Immunocal, but certainly a lot of other

people have said that they did. You might want to do one every other day

for a while if you are miserable.

Cindi

Blue89@...

02/27/01 06:51 PM

Please respond to

cc:

Subject: WHOA! Am I herxing or what???

WHOA! Am I herxing or what???

Just under one week since starting one pack of ImmunoCal a day. Today

is the first day in the last couple of weeks that i can honestly say

I feel like total death.

Am I herxing? I'm also on doxy (since beginning of 2001). Could be

just intensifying symptoms from over work and stress. OR could be

herxing. What is it?

I know asking you guys is like asking you if there is a god, but I

can't resist.

in San Francisco

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

I had a VERY BAD experience on the Immunocal, which I took for about 5-6

months. Even though everyone kept saying I must be " herxing, " I think I was

simply getting worse. Another friend with CFIDS had the same experience.

Even after stopping the Immunocal, I was much much sicker for a long time,

and have never gotten back up to where I was before taking it (now, over a

year after). Not only that, but while on it, I developed a gigantic lump in

my armpit that stayed there for about six months. It took me about five

months to get to the doctor about it because I was so sick, but she had no

conclusions. It seemed to be a swollen node and eventually went down. Since

I had heard from others who had terrible experiences with one product and not

another, I decided to try again with ImmunePro (which is less potent)

instead. I now take about 1/2 a scoop once a week or two weeks before bed -

that's all I can tolerate, but I do seem to have a simple " herxing " from that

- it makes me very fogged and tired and I wake up extra groggy the next day,

but then I'm fine. I think it's important to note that some people have very

negative experiences, even if we are in the minority. I still don't

understand why this is. I am a long-term CFIDS patient and tend to be pretty

treatment-resistant.

Peggy

[Guest guest]

,

I can totally relate. Also been on ABX since Dec 2000. Sleeping huge amounts

and terrible dizziness.

No idea where to get the relief. Always fighting the emotianal battle of am

I feeling worse and relaspsing or is this really a herx and a good thing.

Ho

Email: justinho@...

WHOA! Am I herxing or what???

> WHOA! Am I herxing or what???

>

> Just under one week since starting one pack of ImmunoCal a day. Today

> is the first day in the last couple of weeks that i can honestly say

> I feel like total death.

>

> Am I herxing? I'm also on doxy (since beginning of 2001). Could be

> just intensifying symptoms from over work and stress. OR could be

> herxing. What is it?

>

> I know asking you guys is like asking you if there is a god, but I

> can't resist.

>

> in San Francisco

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi :

Reduce the Immunocal dosage, but DO take SOME everyday. Try one/half

pack, and if that is to much go to tablespoons and work your way up.

There is really no need to rush it.

I take mine at night, a hour or so before bedtime, so if there are any

symptoms, I don't really know, because I sleep thru it.

Laurion

> WHOA! Am I herxing or what???

>

> Just under one week since starting one pack of ImmunoCal a day.

Today

> is the first day in the last couple of weeks that i can honestly say

> I feel like total death.

>

> Am I herxing? I'm also on doxy (since beginning of 2001). Could be

> just intensifying symptoms from over work and stress. OR could be

> herxing. What is it?

>

> I know asking you guys is like asking you if there is a god, but I

> can't resist.

>

> in San Franci

[Guest guest]

> I had a VERY BAD experience on the Immunocal, which I took for about 5-6

> months. Even though everyone kept saying I must be " herxing, " I think I was

> simply getting worse. Another friend with CFIDS had the same experience.

> Even after stopping the Immunocal, I was much much sicker for a long time,

> and have never gotten back up to where I was before taking it (now, over a

> year after). Not only that, but while on it, I developed a gigantic lump in

> my armpit that stayed there for about six months. It took me about five

> months to get to the doctor about it because I was so sick, but she had no

> conclusions. It seemed to be a swollen node and eventually went down. Since

> I had heard from others who had terrible experiences with one product and not

> another, I decided to try again with ImmunePro (which is less potent)

> instead. I now take about 1/2 a scoop once a week or two weeks before bed -

> that's all I can tolerate, but I do seem to have a simple " herxing " from that

> - it makes me very fogged and tired and I wake up extra groggy the next day,

> but then I'm fine. I think it's important to note that some people have very

> negative experiences, even if we are in the minority. I still don't

> understand why this is. I am a long-term CFIDS patient and tend to be pretty

> treatment-resistant.

>

> Peggy

Peggy,

Do you happen to know if your mercury level is elevated? If it is, that might

explain the reaction to Immunocal.

Rich

[Guest guest]

To quote Dr. Hannibal Lecter of The Silence of the Lambs fame, " Oh,

goody, goody. " This is my favorite part of trying to recover from

this illness - the treatments are either curing me or killing me.

I can't be the only one who recognizes the pure idiotic nonsense of

it all. (no offense to you Peggy or Squirrel for your concern - I am

referring to the whole scenario).

There's no way to know if its making me worse or if I am herxing!

This is CRAP!

in San Francisco

> I had a VERY BAD experience on the Immunocal, which I took for

about 5-6

> months. Even though everyone kept saying I must be " herxing, " I

think I was

> simply getting worse. Another friend with CFIDS had the same

experience.

> Even after stopping the Immunocal, I was much much sicker for a

long time,

> and have never gotten back up to where I was before taking it (now,

over a

> year after). Not only that, but while on it, I developed a

gigantic lump in

> my armpit that stayed there for about six months. It took me about

five

> months to get to the doctor about it because I was so sick, but she

had no

> conclusions. It seemed to be a swollen node and eventually went

down. Since

> I had heard from others who had terrible experiences with one

product and not

> another, I decided to try again with ImmunePro (which is less

potent)

> instead. I now take about 1/2 a scoop once a week or two weeks

before bed -

> that's all I can tolerate, but I do seem to have a simple " herxing "

from that

> - it makes me very fogged and tired and I wake up extra groggy the

next day,

> but then I'm fine. I think it's important to note that some people

have very

> negative experiences, even if we are in the minority. I still

don't

> understand why this is. I am a long-term CFIDS patient and tend to

be pretty

> treatment-resistant.

>

> Peggy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/28/2001 12:54:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,

writes:

> WHOA! Am I herxing or what???

>

Hi , from a long term antibiotic taker for long term sinus infection.

IMHO you are not herxing but are sensitive to the antibiotic. Many of them

are oto-toxic and don't effect everyone but they do me, my head roars and

brain fog terrible. Right now am on Augmentin for sinus problems. Had to

stop the Bioxin for the above problem. All the so called good antibiotics, I

cannot take. If I ever had a life threatening infection I feel like the

antibiotics they would give me would kill me before the disease, so sensitive

(or allergic) am I to them and most meds.

Regards,

Helen

[Guest guest]

Sorry but I have to balance this. Just because you had problems with

candida doesn't mean everybody does or is going to. Many people with

candida say it goes away when they take antibiotics and improve the immune

system. My doctor, like you, is paranoid about it, but time after time I

get tested and I have none, despite being on antibiotics for more than a

year. And probiotics do help, even if you are on antibiotics. The

antibiotics don't kill them all off.

So yes, this can be a problem and something to be aware of, especially if

you have symptoms of candida and antibiotics make you worse in a way that

is different that herxing. But it is not necessarily a problem for

everyone.

Cindi

" Squirel " <squirels@...>

02/28/01 08:49 PM

Please respond to

< >

cc:

Subject: Re: WHOA! Am I herxing or what???

Hi &

Im going to rave on again about candida because I'm very concerned

about your symptoms with the antibiotics.

My advice to anyone thinking of treating with antibiotics is this.

I believe many of us have infections such as lyme etc.

But its possible you have candida which taking antibiotics

will make a lot worse. Especially broad spectrum ones that kill

all your natural flora. I believe we should try antifungals and do

the diet strictly first before we try antibiotics.The antifungals will not

harm you if you have a bacterial infection whereas if you have a fungal

infection the antibiotics could kill you as happened to one lady with

cfs who had been on the antibiotic protocol for months. She tragically

died of a blood candida infection. Once candida has gone too far it can

kill you.

Probiotics will be killed off by antibiotics so will not help.

Using antifungals later will be a huge uphill struggle as once you have

systemic

fungus the hyphae are hard to kill.

Many known candida sufferers remain on antifungals for the rest of their

lives.

My own recent trial of ten days of antibiotics lef me much worse and I am

now

catching up some ground with a very strict diet (awful) and gentle

antifungals

to start.

If you must take antibiotics you really should take antifungals at the

same time.

If you herx bad on antifungals you know you have candida.

I immediately herx on antifungals and as the fungi is killed off I improve

if Im careful

with the diet.

I have found antibiotics only make me worse.

Get Well Soon

Cheryl

hope you find something that helps you soon.

> ,

> I can totally relate. Also been on ABX since Dec 2000. Sleeping huge

amounts

> and terrible dizziness.

> No idea where to get the relief. Always fighting the emotianal battle of

am

> I feeling worse and relaspsing or is this really a herx and a good

thing.

> Ho

>

> Email: justinho@...

>

> WHOA! Am I herxing or what???

>

>

> > WHOA! Am I herxing or what???

> >

> > Just under one week since starting one pack of ImmunoCal a day. Today

> > is the first day in the last couple of weeks that i can honestly say

> > I feel like total death.

> >

> > Am I herxing? I'm also on doxy (since beginning of 2001). Could be

> > just intensifying symptoms from over work and stress. OR could be

> > herxing. What is it?

> >

> > I know asking you guys is like asking you if there is a god, but I

> > can't resist.

> >

> > in San Francisco

> >

> >

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

Since there ain't no litmus test for whether you're herxing, sick from

the product (whey, abx, anticandida, whatever) we're all in a crapshoot

when it comes to feeling worse correlated with treatment onset, immediate

or delayed. It's mindboggling and sometimes downright scary, and each

person has to assess what he/she thinks is going on, can handle, has

near-enough support should it be allergic, etc.

While fear-driven pulling back risks losing the benefits it's often the

only wise thing to do, and something I've struggled with lots, and am

again now.

I remember that many years ago when I got real sick from the first

treatment I was given (for Candida) a very dear and close friend thought

it horrid that there was no place to go where there would be some medical

support and care to get you through it. There are such places if you're

a millionairre.

So, , you are right, when we ask these questions we don't get very

helpful answers; yet we must ask them.

Judith

On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 02:51:31 -0000 Blue89@... writes:

> WHOA! Am I herxing or what???

>

> Just under one week since starting one pack of ImmunoCal a day.

> Today

> is the first day in the last couple of weeks that i can honestly say

>

> I feel like total death.

>

> Am I herxing? I'm also on doxy (since beginning of 2001). Could be

> just intensifying symptoms from over work and stress. OR could be

> herxing. What is it?

>

> I know asking you guys is like asking you if there is a god, but I

> can't resist.

>

> in San Francisco

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

> with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested

> in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rich,

I don't know if my mercury is elevated. The only mercury test I ever had was

about 4-5 years ago, before I had my 11 amalgams taken out. At that point,

my levels were not elevated, but we suspected I probably had a fair amount of

systemic mercury, what with 11 amalgams. I have done various mercury detox

methods but never had a positive response to any of them, either while I was

doing them or afterwards.

Peggy

In a message dated 2/28/01 3:54:04 PM,

writes:

<<

Peggy,

Do you happen to know if your mercury level is elevated? If it is, that

might explain the reaction to Immunocal.

Rich

>>

[Guest guest]

Hi &

Im going to rave on again about candida because I'm very concerned

about your symptoms with the antibiotics.

My advice to anyone thinking of treating with antibiotics is this.

I believe many of us have infections such as lyme etc.

But its possible you have candida which taking antibiotics

will make a lot worse. Especially broad spectrum ones that kill

all your natural flora. I believe we should try antifungals and do

the diet strictly first before we try antibiotics.The antifungals will not

harm you if you have a bacterial infection whereas if you have a fungal

infection the antibiotics could kill you as happened to one lady with

cfs who had been on the antibiotic protocol for months. She tragically

died of a blood candida infection. Once candida has gone too far it can

kill you.

Probiotics will be killed off by antibiotics so will not help.

Using antifungals later will be a huge uphill struggle as once you have systemic

fungus the hyphae are hard to kill.

Many known candida sufferers remain on antifungals for the rest of their lives.

My own recent trial of ten days of antibiotics lef me much worse and I am now

catching up some ground with a very strict diet (awful) and gentle antifungals

to start.

If you must take antibiotics you really should take antifungals at the same

time.

If you herx bad on antifungals you know you have candida.

I immediately herx on antifungals and as the fungi is killed off I improve if Im

careful

with the diet.

I have found antibiotics only make me worse.

Get Well Soon

Cheryl

hope you find something that helps you soon.

> ,

> I can totally relate. Also been on ABX since Dec 2000. Sleeping huge amounts

> and terrible dizziness.

> No idea where to get the relief. Always fighting the emotianal battle of am

> I feeling worse and relaspsing or is this really a herx and a good thing.

> Ho

>

> Email: justinho@...

>

> WHOA! Am I herxing or what???

>

>

> > WHOA! Am I herxing or what???

> >

> > Just under one week since starting one pack of ImmunoCal a day. Today

> > is the first day in the last couple of weeks that i can honestly say

> > I feel like total death.

> >

> > Am I herxing? I'm also on doxy (since beginning of 2001). Could be

> > just intensifying symptoms from over work and stress. OR could be

> > herxing. What is it?

> >

> > I know asking you guys is like asking you if there is a god, but I

> > can't resist.

> >

> > in San Francisco

> >

> >

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

, I agree with Judith...

There can be some indicators, the ones that Laurie and I use are:

* If antihistamines (or other anti-herxheimer stuff) significantly

lessen the symptoms, it is probably herxing

* If we get a bigger niacin flush than before, it is probably herxing

At the start, especially with Laurie, there was 4 weeks where the

herxheimer was continuous and severe. Those were rough weeks, because

we were still learning how to identify that it was a herx -- there

were many questions asked several times a day .. " This is going to

make me better -- right? "

It was a walk by faith ... and once we got across it, we realized

that it was herxing....

> ,

>

> Since there ain't no litmus test for whether you're herxing, sick

from

> the product (whey, abx, anticandida, whatever) we're all in a

crapshoot

> when it comes to feeling worse correlated with treatment onset,

immediate

> or delayed