Re: Guaifenesin and Immunpro

[Guest guest]

Dear Group,

I have been lurking here for a while too. Having read Margaret and Joyce's

posts I felt I needed to let you know I am here as well. The three of us

have known each other for a while. I could have written Margaret's story for

the most part right down to the hypoglycemia (what I formerly had thought

for 10 years was candida). I have done most of the things she has done in

vain attempts to get well. Margaret and Joyce were much sicker than I when

they started guai and Immunepro. I too have added whey in the form of

Immunepro to my guai regimen. I have been on guai since 4-98. I have an

older brother on it as well. He too was sicker than I when he started guai.

My experience on whey has been a little different that Margaret, Joyce or my

brother. I have not gotten as sick on it. I did feel bad for about 3 weeks,

kind of like I was getting a cold and I had more fatigue. I have been on it

since October 21, 2000 and have worked up to 20 g. a day. Now most of the

time I just feel like I have more energy. I must also say that I was not

cycling (what you call herxing) nearly as hard as my 2 friends or my brother

before starting the whey and my response to the whey has not been as

pronounced as theirs either. Since starting the whey when I do cycle, I

cycle harder that I did without it and/or feel like I am getting a cold or

the flu and I get very tired. When I am not cycling, I have tons of energy.

My theory, since reading some of your responses to whey, is that if you have

lowered your level of phosphates as per Dr. St. Amand's theory, you will not

have such a hard response to the addition of whey. If you have never been

on guai or whey and you start whey you will have a stronger response to it

as well, in the form of what you are calling herxing. I think like Margaret

and Joyce do, that what is actually happening when you take whey is that you

are really getting rid of phosphates. Thanks to another person here on your

list I have been reading medical research that has shown that phosphate

excretion goes up when glutathione levels are up. Phosphate excretion goes

down when glutathione levels are low or absent. I think both Dr. Cheney and

Dr. St. Amand are onto something here.

Gretchen

> Subject: Guaifenesin and Immunpro

>

> Dear Group,

>

> I have been lurking here since a friend told me about this group. I

thought it was time to come out of the closet since a discussion has been

started on Guai and whey.

>

> I have been on Guaifenesin since Novemeber 23, 1997.

>

> I was dx'd with FM in 1987 and thought my only problem was not sleeping

and leg pain. The story of my life is in " What Your Doctor May Not Tell You

About Fibromyalgia " by R. St. Amand M.D. and Mareck. I know now

that my first flare was at age 19. To make a long story short IBS reared its

ugly head, followed by allergies, countless vaginal infections leading to a

hysterectomy at age 34, bouts of depression and the list goes on. I can

plainly see the waxing and waning over the years of all the symptoms leading

to the final crash after a year of unrelenting stress ending with the 93 flu

shot. I became very sick two weeks after the shot and kept getting worse. I

had also become very sensitive to medications..everything that is used for

FM to help symptoms put me in the ER. I had 10 ER visits the first year and

evey test for the heart there is since drugs speeded my heart, nothing was

found. I also suspect there was reactive hypglycemia involved and it will

not show up on a blood test. http://www.tidalweb.com/fms/rhg.shtml

>

> I then decided to see an herbalist..and I was able to take herbs but after

nine months was no better. I traveled to a doctor of Environmental Medicine

and did all the usual things..more herb, vitamins, vitamin I.V.s, Armour to

try and get the temperature up, yeast and parasite cleanses, colonics,

chelation, massage and you name it. I did all this for 6 months or more. I

then spent several months with a homeopath and followed his protocol to no

avail. I read a book by an FM doctor that seemed to make sense treating

everything at once so off I was again and another round of yeast killling.

The test showed I had no parasites but yeast was still the high end of

normal. I tired NADH, MSM, Creatine, Myers Cocktails, T3 therapy,

DHEA, low dose Cortisol and the list goes on. He was the first doctor to do

all the necessary tests to rule out Lupus, Lymes, MS, RA, and I can't

remember what else. I had started hearing about Guai and asked about it and

was told, not yet. Four months later...after no improvement I was told to

start Guai. I was told no herbs...but there is more to it than no herbs. It

is salicyates in anything put on the skin. Guaifenesin can be blocked at the

kidney level by salicylates.

>

> You may read about the entire protocol on Dr. St. Amand's site

www.Guaidoc.com or at the Guai-Support International Site

http://www.netromall.com/guai-support/. I was blocking the first three

months until I found the Guai-Support website and the education began. The

blockage by the mint in toothpaste was not learned for some time so I was

partially blocking with that. It is hard to weed out the sals but an

absolute must for this to work.

>

> I also learned that a lot of people with FM are hypoglycemic..some because

of heredidty and some because of FM. The body is demanding energy..give me

pasta or sugar and I will get energy the brain is saying. I also learned

that if you do not release insulin you do not pull phosphates into the

cells. Dr. St. Amand has his patients on a low carbohydrate diet for the

first two months to jump start them. Most of us have found we feel better

with this diet HG or not.

>

> Dr. St. Amand makes a map of the lumps and bumps in the body. People with

CFS, FM and MCS all map out the lumps and bumps. I found a massage therpist

here that listened to me. He traveled to a seminar Dr. St. Amand was giving

and went to the meeting for professionals and had the opportunity to learn

the mappng technique. He was finally ready to map. He mapped me before I

traveled to CA for an appointment with Dr. St. Amand. He told me I must be

blocking with something, I had gained some deposits and the old ones were

harder. I did not think so, I was so sure I was not blocking. Dr. St. Amand

confirmed it. It took two weeks to find out the culprit. I knew my mapper

knew what he was doing and a hard lesson was learned about salicylates. I

had blocked for three months and my map was going backwards fast. I cleared

it out in one month and I was on my way again. I am now mapped once a month

to be certain of not blocking and that the dose is right.

> I have learned that my map strands still at 1800mg Guai so I am taking

2400 at this point. You have to titrate up slowly to find you cycling dose.

The instructions are in the book and on the sites.

>

> A GG group member wrote to me about my progress and mentioned he was

taking whey. I was leery about another so called cure. He also sent me a

lot of research and I finally decided, why not. I found out NEEDS was having

a sale on Immunepro so I ordered some. I started at 1/4 tespoon and started

purging phophates in 6 hours. I was not sure if it was a regular cycle or

not I knew it was not as I titrated the dose to 1 tsp.over time. I purged

constantly for about two months. I am taking about eyes burning, mouth

burning, hot coming out of everywhere..bubbles and particles in the urine.

It also helps to take Cal-Mag with meals as the calcium binds with the

phosphates and takes them out in the stool.

>

> I have either been dealing with a virus or a huge cycle of sinus and ears

clearing the past couple of weeks. I just finished a course of Tequin and

Claritin. I had fluid in my ears and vertigo which was not fun. I went off

whey then to calm down the cycle. I saw my MT yesterday, he thinks it is due

to the heavy cycling in the neck and shoulders and I am feeling much better

today after he loosened me up. My maps have been improving all along and

yesterday was not my regular mapping day but he felt a lot more changes and

we got out the last map. I had completely lost a big shoulder deposit, the

right side of my back has totally cleared

> a big deposit that was very puffed with fluid and ready to clear last

month was gone. My MT will do my regular mapping on December 18 and I will

put on a report after. Oh, I had been on Immunepro about one month at my

last regular mapping and my MT commented about a change in my muscles BEFORE

I told him about taking whey.

>

> To end, there is NO DOUBT in my mind that wehy is enhancing Guai. I was

about 80% when not cycling on Guai after 3 years and some blocking. Guai

takes two months for every year of FM and I know now I was born with it. I

planned on 5-6 years to remission but whey is going to shorten that time, I

am sure of it now.. I tried Guai because nothing else had worked and I had

nothing to lose. I belong to the support list that was about 250 or so when

I joined and it is now about 2000 strong.

>

> Oh, one last thing, Guai thins the blood to a certain extent. I remember

reading a post about a study on that in the archives of the Guai- Support

Group but cannot remember the details. I have read many posts in this group

about our thick blood.

>

> The FAQs on the sites will answer most questions on Guai.

> Sincerely,

> Margaret Bush..AL

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I just unsubscribed to the list due to energy levels ; however,

there is such good information here - even though i don't understand a

lot of it So, soon I may resubscribe. Until then,

would someone please e-mail me about the

whey protein. My question is: Is the pure whey protein powder

purchased at the health food stores the same as what all of you are

talking about recently?

Thanks much.

Joan in iL

josiefour@....

[Guest guest]

> So do you think it is possible to rid any excess phosphates with

just the

> whey.

According to the study done on rats 20% more phosphates were

released.

There is no doubt in my mind now after about 21/2 months on ImmunePro

that it in enhancing Guaifenesin for me! I know because I am purging

all the time...bubbles, particles and sometimes the urine is so thick

the stream stops and starts, it is also milky looking. Oh, did I

mention burning. The phosphates turn to phosphoric acid when

released. We Guai users even resort to zinc oxide ointment and Bag

Balm from the chemical burn from the urine. This has happened with

Guai alone but in a more cyclic manner.

> I read up on the guai. treatment and one of the blockers was aloe.

> Since I am taking glyconutrients (which is aloe) I can't do the

guai.

It is not at all hard to give up herbals when you have the prospect

of getting well.I used everything natural before Guai. I drank

gallons of whole leaf aloe. It did nothing for me.

Margaret

>

> Guaifenesin and Immunpro

> > >

> > > Dear Group,

> > >

> > > I have been lurking here since a friend told me about this

group. I

> > thought it was time to come out of the closet since a discussion

has been

> > started on Guai and whey.

> > >

> > > I have been on Guaifenesin since Novemeber 23, 1997.

> > >

> > > I was dx'd with FM in 1987 and thought my only problem was not

sleeping

> > and leg pain. The story of my life is in " What Your Doctor May

Not Tell

> You

> > About Fibromyalgia " by R. St. Amand M.D. and Mareck.

I know

> now

> > that my first flare was at age 19. To make a long story short IBS

reared

> its

> > ugly head, followed by allergies, countless vaginal infections

leading to

> a

> > hysterectomy at age 34, bouts of depression and the list goes

on. I can

> > plainly see the waxing and waning over the years of all the

symptoms

> leading

> > to the final crash after a year of unrelenting stress ending with

the 93

> flu

> > shot. I became very sick two weeks after the shot and kept

getting worse.

> I

> > had also become very sensitive to medications..everything that is

used for

> > FM to help symptoms put me in the ER. I had 10 ER visits the

first year

> and

> > evey test for the heart there is since drugs speeded my heart,

nothing was

> > found. I also suspect there was reactive hypglycemia involved and

it will

> > not show up on a blood test. http://www.tidalweb.com/fms/rhg.shtml

> > >

> > > I then decided to see an herbalist..and I was able to take

herbs but

> after

> > nine months was no better. I traveled to a doctor of Environmental

> Medicine

> > and did all the usual things..more herb, vitamins, vitamin I.V.s,

Armour

> to

> > try and get the temperature up, yeast and parasite cleanses,

colonics,

> > chelation, massage and you name it. I did all this for 6 months

or more.

> I

> > then spent several months with a homeopath and followed his

protocol to no

> > avail. I read a book by an FM doctor that seemed to make sense

treating

> > everything at once so off I was again and another round of yeast

killling.

> > The test showed I had no parasites but yeast was still the high

end of

> > normal. I tired NADH, MSM, Creatine, Myers Cocktails, T3

therapy,

> > DHEA, low dose Cortisol and the list goes on. He was the first

doctor to

> do

> > all the necessary tests to rule out Lupus, Lymes, MS, RA, and I

can't

> > remember what else. I had started hearing about Guai and asked

about it

> and

> > was told, not yet. Four months later...after no improvement I was

told to

> > start Guai. I was told no herbs...but there is more to it than no

herbs.

> It

> > is salicyates in anything put on the skin. Guaifenesin can be

blocked at

> the

> > kidney level by salicylates.

> > >

> > > You may read about the entire protocol on Dr. St. Amand's site

> > www.Guaidoc.com or at the Guai-Support International Site

> > http://www.netromall.com/guai-support/. I was blocking the first

three

> > months until I found the Guai-Support website and the education

began. The

> > blockage by the mint in toothpaste was not learned for some time

so I was

> > partially blocking with that. It is hard to weed out the sals but

an

> > absolute must for this to work.

> > >

> > > I also learned that a lot of people with FM are

hypoglycemic..some

> because

> > of heredidty and some because of FM. The body is demanding

energy..give me

> > pasta or sugar and I will get energy the brain is saying. I also

learned

> > that if you do not release insulin you do not pull phosphates

into the

> > cells. Dr. St. Amand has his patients on a low carbohydrate diet

for the

> > first two months to jump start them. Most of us have found we

feel better

> > with this diet HG or not.

> > >

> > > Dr. St. Amand makes a map of the lumps and bumps in the body.

People

> with

> > CFS, FM and MCS all map out the lumps and bumps. I found a

massage

> therpist

> > here that listened to me. He traveled to a seminar Dr. St. Amand

was

> giving

> > and went to the meeting for professionals and had the opportunity

to learn

> > the mappng technique. He was finally ready to map. He mapped me

before I

> > traveled to CA for an appointment with Dr. St. Amand. He told me

I must be

> > blocking with something, I had gained some deposits and the old

ones were

> > harder. I did not think so, I was so sure I was not blocking. Dr.

St.

> Amand

> > confirmed it. It took two weeks to find out the culprit. I knew

my mapper

> > knew what he was doing and a hard lesson was learned about

salicylates. I

> > had blocked for three months and my map was going backwards fast.

I

> cleared

> > it out in one month and I was on my way again. I am now mapped

once a

> month

> > to be certain of not blocking and that the dose is right.

> > > I have learned that my map strands still at 1800mg Guai so I am

taking

> > 2400 at this point. You have to titrate up slowly to find you

cycling

> dose.

> > The instructions are in the book and on the sites.

> > >

> > > A GG group member wrote to me about my progress and mentioned

he was

> > taking whey. I was leery about another so called cure. He also

sent me a

> > lot of research and I finally decided, why not. I found out NEEDS

was

> having

> > a sale on Immunepro so I ordered some. I started at 1/4 tespoon

and

> started

> > purging phophates in 6 hours. I was not sure if it was a regular

cycle or

> > not I knew it was not as I titrated the dose to 1 tsp.over time.

I purged

> > constantly for about two months. I am taking about eyes burning,

mouth

> > burning, hot coming out of everywhere..bubbles and particles in

the urine.

> > It also helps to take Cal-Mag with meals as the calcium binds

with the

> > phosphates and takes them out in the stool.

> > >

> > > I have either been dealing with a virus or a huge cycle of

sinus and

> ears

> > clearing the past couple of weeks. I just finished a course of

Tequin and

> > Claritin. I had fluid in my ears and vertigo which was not fun.

I went

> off

> > whey then to calm down the cycle. I saw my MT yesterday, he

thinks it is

> due

> > to the heavy cycling in the neck and shoulders and I am feeling

much

> better

> > today after he loosened me up. My maps have been improving all

along and

> > yesterday was not my regular mapping day but he felt a lot more

changes

> and

> > we got out the last map. I had completely lost a big shoulder

deposit,

> the

> > right side of my back has totally cleared

> > > a big deposit that was very puffed with fluid and ready to

clear last

> > month was gone. My MT will do my regular mapping on December 18

and I will

> > put on a report after. Oh, I had been on Immunepro about one

month at my

> > last regular mapping and my MT commented about a change in my

muscles

> BEFORE

> > I told him about taking whey.

> > >

> > > To end, there is NO DOUBT in my mind that wehy is enhancing

Guai. I was

> > about 80% when not cycling on Guai after 3 years and some

blocking. Guai

> > takes two months for every year of FM and I know now I was born

with it.

> I

> > planned on 5-6 years to remission but whey is going to shorten

that time,

> I

> > am sure of it now.. I tried Guai because nothing else had worked

and I had

> > nothing to lose. I belong to the support list that was about 250

or so

> when

> > I joined and it is now about 2000 strong.

> > >

> > > Oh, one last thing, Guai thins the blood to a certain extent. I

remember

> > reading a post about a study on that in the archives of the Guai-

Support

> > Group but cannot remember the details. I have read many posts in

this

> group

> > about our thick blood.

> > >

> > > The FAQs on the sites will answer most questions on Guai.

> > > Sincerely,

> > > Margaret Bush..AL

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

> >

[Guest guest]

Message: 21

Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 00:56:53 -0000

From: rogmarg@...

Subject: Re: Guaifenesin and Immunpro

I personally would not put my entire trust in whey because it is not proven

clinically like Dr. St. Amand's treatment. He has been using this treatment

in one form or another successfully for 40 years. I have been sick for too

long to put all my trust in something I was not sure about. The clinical

experience is not there for whey like it is for guai. I agree with Margaret

that it definately enhances guai but I choose not to rely on just whey when

I KNOW how well guai has worked for me. My brother is taking the same

approach.

We each have to make choices in our treatment. I choose to stick with what I

know works for me. Guai has taken me from house bound back to full life. I

have been fortunate that it worked as fast as it did, not everyone gets to

feeling better as soon as I have. I still have times I don't feel wonderful

but it is still lightyears from where I have been

Gretchen

> So do you think it is possible to rid any excess phosphates with

just the

> whey.

According to the study done on rats 20% more phosphates were

released.

There is no doubt in my mind now after about 21/2 months on ImmunePro

that it in enhancing Guaifenesin for me! I know because I am purging

all the time...bubbles, particles and sometimes the urine is so thick

the stream stops and starts, it is also milky looking.

[Guest guest]

I have a question. If Immunepro works similar to Guaifenesin, do salacylates

inhibit Immunepro from working like it does Guaifenesin?

lindaj@...

Re: Guaifenesin and Immunpro

>

> > So do you think it is possible to rid any excess phosphates with

> just the

> > whey.

>

> According to the study done on rats 20% more phosphates were

> released.

>

> There is no doubt in my mind now after about 21/2 months on ImmunePro

> that it in enhancing Guaifenesin for me! I know because I am purging

> all the time...bubbles, particles and sometimes the urine is so thick

> the stream stops and starts, it is also milky looking. Oh, did I

> mention burning. The phosphates turn to phosphoric acid when

> released. We Guai users even resort to zinc oxide ointment and Bag

> Balm from the chemical burn from the urine. This has happened with

> Guai alone but in a more cyclic manner.

[Guest guest]

> I have a question. If Immunepro works similar to Guaifenesin, do

salacylates

> inhibit Immunepro from working like it does Guaifenesin?

>

>

> lindaj@h...

Good question...I have no idea.

Margaret

>

> Re: Guaifenesin and Immunpro

>

>

> >

> > > So do you think it is possible to rid any excess phosphates with

> > just the

> > > whey.

> >

> > According to the study done on rats 20% more phosphates were

> > released.

> >

> > There is no doubt in my mind now after about 21/2 months on

ImmunePro

> > that it in enhancing Guaifenesin for me! I know because I am

purging

> > all the time...bubbles, particles and sometimes the urine is so

thick

> > the stream stops and starts, it is also milky looking. Oh, did I

> > mention burning. The phosphates turn to phosphoric acid when

> > released. We Guai users even resort to zinc oxide ointment and Bag

> > Balm from the chemical burn from the urine. This has happened with

> > Guai alone but in a more cyclic manner.

[Guest guest]

are you also on the strict diet armand recommends

Fluffy

> Message: 21

> Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 00:56:53 -0000

> From: rogmarg@d...

> Subject: Re: Guaifenesin and Immunpro

>

>

> I personally would not put my entire trust in whey because it is

not proven

> clinically like Dr. St. Amand's treatment. He has been using this

treatment

> in one form or another successfully for 40 years. I have been sick

for too

> long to put all my trust in something I was not sure about. The

clinical

> experience is not there for whey like it is for guai. I agree with

Margaret

> that it definately enhances guai but I choose not to rely on just

whey when

> I KNOW how well guai has worked for me. My brother is taking the

same

> approach.

>

> We each have to make choices in our treatment. I choose to stick

with what I

> know works for me. Guai has taken me from house bound back to full

life. I

> have been fortunate that it worked as fast as it did, not everyone

gets to

> feeling better as soon as I have. I still have times I don't feel

wonderful

> but it is still lightyears from where I have been

>

> Gretchen

>

> > So do you think it is possible to rid any excess phosphates with

> just the

> > whey.

>

> According to the study done on rats 20% more phosphates were

> released.

>

> There is no doubt in my mind now after about 21/2 months on

ImmunePro

> that it in enhancing Guaifenesin for me! I know because I am purging

> all the time...bubbles, particles and sometimes the urine is so

thick

> the stream stops and starts, it is also milky looking.

[Guest guest]

the rats were NOT taking whey. They simply tested glutathione, NOT whey.

At 08:45 PM 12/06/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>A stupid question - were the rats on guaifenesin before putting them on the

>whey? If not, it appears the whey alone does

>appear to increase phosphate excretion.

>

>

>

> Guaifenesin and Immunpro

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Group,

> > > > >

> > > > > I have been lurking here since a friend told me about this

> > group. I

> > > > thought it was time to come out of the closet since a discussion

> > has been

> > > > started on Guai and whey.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have been on Guaifenesin since Novemeber 23, 1997.

> > > > >

> > > > > I was dx'd with FM in 1987 and thought my only problem was not

> > sleeping

> > > > and leg pain. The story of my life is in " What Your Doctor May

> > Not Tell

> > > You

> > > > About Fibromyalgia " by R. St. Amand M.D. and Mareck.

> > I know

> > > now

> > > > that my first flare was at age 19. To make a long story short IBS

> > reared

> > > its

> > > > ugly head, followed by allergies, countless vaginal infections

> > leading to

> > > a

> > > > hysterectomy at age 34, bouts of depression and the list goes

> > on. I can

> > > > plainly see the waxing and waning over the years of all the

> > symptoms

> > > leading

> > > > to the final crash after a year of unrelenting stress ending with

> > the 93

> > > flu

> > > > shot. I became very sick two weeks after the shot and kept

> > getting worse.

> > > I

> > > > had also become very sensitive to medications..everything that is

> > used for

> > > > FM to help symptoms put me in the ER. I had 10 ER visits the

> > first year

> > > and

> > > > evey test for the heart there is since drugs speeded my heart,

> > nothing was

> > > > found. I also suspect there was reactive hypglycemia involved and

> > it will

> > > > not show up on a blood test. http://www.tidalweb.com/fms/rhg.shtml

> > > > >

> > > > > I then decided to see an herbalist..and I was able to take

> > herbs but

> > > after

> > > > nine months was no better. I traveled to a doctor of Environmental

> > > Medicine

> > > > and did all the usual things..more herb, vitamins, vitamin I.V.s,

> > Armour

> > > to

> > > > try and get the temperature up, yeast and parasite cleanses,

> > colonics,

> > > > chelation, massage and you name it. I did all this for 6 months

> > or more.

> > > I

> > > > then spent several months with a homeopath and followed his

> > protocol to no

> > > > avail. I read a book by an FM doctor that seemed to make sense

> > treating

> > > > everything at once so off I was again and another round of yeast

> > killling.

> > > > The test showed I had no parasites but yeast was still the high

> > end of

> > > > normal. I tired NADH, MSM, Creatine, Myers Cocktails, T3

> > therapy,

> > > > DHEA, low dose Cortisol and the list goes on. He was the first

> > doctor to

> > > do

> > > > all the necessary tests to rule out Lupus, Lymes, MS, RA, and I

> > can't

> > > > remember what else. I had started hearing about Guai and asked

> > about it

> > > and

> > > > was told, not yet. Four months later...after no improvement I was

> > told to

> > > > start Guai. I was told no herbs...but there is more to it than no

> > herbs.

> > > It

> > > > is salicyates in anything put on the skin. Guaifenesin can be

> > blocked at

> > > the

> > > > kidney level by salicylates.

> > > > >

> > > > > You may read about the entire protocol on Dr. St. Amand's site

> > > > www.Guaidoc.com or at the Guai-Support International Site

> > > > http://www.netromall.com/guai-support/. I was blocking the first

> > three

> > > > months until I found the Guai-Support website and the education

> > began. The

> > > > blockage by the mint in toothpaste was not learned for some time

> > so I was

> > > > partially blocking with that. It is hard to weed out the sals but

> > an

> > > > absolute must for this to work.

> > > > >

> > > > > I also learned that a lot of people with FM are

> > hypoglycemic..some

> > > because

> > > > of heredidty and some because of FM. The body is demanding

> > energy..give me

> > > > pasta or sugar and I will get energy the brain is saying. I also

> > learned

> > > > that if you do not release insulin you do not pull phosphates

> > into the

> > > > cells. Dr. St. Amand has his patients on a low carbohydrate diet

> > for the

> > > > first two months to jump start them. Most of us have found we

> > feel better

> > > > with this diet HG or not.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dr. St. Amand makes a map of the lumps and bumps in the body.

> > People

> > > with

> > > > CFS, FM and MCS all map out the lumps and bumps. I found a

> > massage

> > > therpist

> > > > here that listened to me. He traveled to a seminar Dr. St. Amand

> > was

> > > giving

> > > > and went to the meeting for professionals and had the opportunity

> > to learn

> > > > the mappng technique. He was finally ready to map. He mapped me

> > before I

> > > > traveled to CA for an appointment with Dr. St. Amand. He told me

> > I must be

> > > > blocking with something, I had gained some deposits and the old

> > ones were

> > > > harder. I did not think so, I was so sure I was not blocking. Dr.

> > St.

> > > Amand

> > > > confirmed it. It took two weeks to find out the culprit. I knew

> > my mapper

> > > > knew what he was doing and a hard lesson was learned about

> > salicylates. I

> > > > had blocked for three months and my map was going backwards fast.

> > I

> > > cleared

> > > > it out in one month and I was on my way again. I am now mapped

> > once a

> > > month

> > > > to be certain of not blocking and that the dose is right.

> > > > > I have learned that my map strands still at 1800mg Guai so I am

> > taking

> > > > 2400 at this point. You have to titrate up slowly to find you

> > cycling

> > > dose.

> > > > The instructions are in the book and on the sites.

> > > > >

> > > > > A GG group member wrote to me about my progress and mentioned

> > he was

> > > > taking whey. I was leery about another so called cure. He also

> > sent me a

> > > > lot of research and I finally decided, why not. I found out NEEDS

> > was

> > > having

> > > > a sale on Immunepro so I ordered some. I started at 1/4 tespoon

> > and

> > > started

> > > > purging phophates in 6 hours. I was not sure if it was a regular

> > cycle or

> > > > not I knew it was not as I titrated the dose to 1 tsp.over time.

> > I purged

> > > > constantly for about two months. I am taking about eyes burning,

> > mouth

> > > > burning, hot coming out of everywhere..bubbles and particles in

> > the urine.

> > > > It also helps to take Cal-Mag with meals as the calcium binds

> > with the

> > > > phosphates and takes them out in the stool.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have either been dealing with a virus or a huge cycle of

> > sinus and

> > > ears

> > > > clearing the past couple of weeks. I just finished a course of

> > Tequin and

> > > > Claritin. I had fluid in my ears and vertigo which was not fun.

> > I went

> > > off

> > > > whey then to calm down the cycle. I saw my MT yesterday, he

> > thinks it is

> > > due

> > > > to the heavy cycling in the neck and shoulders and I am feeling

> > much

> > > better

> > > > today after he loosened me up. My maps have been improving all

> > along and

> > > > yesterday was not my regular mapping day but he felt a lot more

> > changes

> > > and

> > > > we got out the last map. I had completely lost a big shoulder

> > deposit,

> > > the

> > > > right side of my back has totally cleared

> > > > > a big deposit that was very puffed with fluid and ready to

> > clear last

> > > > month was gone. My MT will do my regular mapping on December 18

> > and I will

> > > > put on a report after. Oh, I had been on Immunepro about one

> > month at my

> > > > last regular mapping and my MT commented about a change in my

> > muscles

> > > BEFORE

> > > > I told him about taking whey.

> > > > >

> > > > > To end, there is NO DOUBT in my mind that wehy is enhancing

> > Guai. I was

> > > > about 80% when not cycling on Guai after 3 years and some

> > blocking. Guai

> > > > takes two months for every year of FM and I know now I was born

> > with it.

> > > I

> > > > planned on 5-6 years to remission but whey is going to shorten

> > that time,

> > > I

> > > > am sure of it now.. I tried Guai because nothing else had worked

> > and I had

> > > > nothing to lose. I belong to the support list that was about 250

> > or so

> > > when

> > > > I joined and it is now about 2000 strong.

> > > > >

> > > > > Oh, one last thing, Guai thins the blood to a certain extent. I

> > remember

> > > > reading a post about a study on that in the archives of the Guai-

> > Support

> > > > Group but cannot remember the details. I have read many posts in

> > this

> > > group

> > > > about our thick blood.

> > > > >

> > > > > The FAQs on the sites will answer most questions on Guai.

> > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > Margaret Bush..AL

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

> > with each

> > > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

> > treatment

> > > discussed here, please consult your doctor.

> > > >

> >

> >

> >

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

>other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

>discussed here, please consult your doctor.

> >

>

>

>

>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

>other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

>discussed here, please consult your doctor.

Bravo

Harvard University

Biochemical Sciences Tutorial Office and Library

Fairchild 193

7 Divinity Avenue

Cambridge, MA 02138

gbravo@...

(617)496-5129, (617)495-4106

FAX: (617)496-6148

[Guest guest]

I would not not put my entire trust in whey either. I started whey

after I had been on Guai nearly 3 years. I know whey is enhancing

Guai for me my mappings show faster clearing and I see the purging.

There is no dout at all now. I would not do whey alone..that is only

20% release of phosphates in rats.

Margaret

>

>

> > Message: 21

> > Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 00:56:53 -0000

> > From: rogmarg@d...

> > Subject: Re: Guaifenesin and Immunpro

> >

> >

> > I personally would not put my entire trust in whey because it is

> not proven

> > clinically like Dr. St. Amand's treatment. He has been using

this

> treatment

> > in one form or another successfully for 40 years. I have been

sick

> for too

> > long to put all my trust in something I was not sure about. The

> clinical

> > experience is not there for whey like it is for guai. I agree

with

> Margaret

> > that it definately enhances guai but I choose not to rely on just

> whey when

> > I KNOW how well guai has worked for me. My brother is taking the

> same

> > approach.

> >

> > We each have to make choices in our treatment. I choose to stick

> with what I

> > know works for me. Guai has taken me from house bound back to

full

> life. I

> > have been fortunate that it worked as fast as it did, not

everyone

> gets to

> > feeling better as soon as I have. I still have times I don't feel

> wonderful

> > but it is still lightyears from where I have been

> >

> > Gretchen

> >

> > > So do you think it is possible to rid any excess phosphates with

> > just the

> > > whey.

> >

> > According to the study done on rats 20% more phosphates were

> > released.

> >

> > There is no doubt in my mind now after about 21/2 months on

> ImmunePro

> > that it in enhancing Guaifenesin for me! I know because I am

purging

> > all the time...bubbles, particles and sometimes the urine is so

> thick

> > the stream stops and starts, it is also milky looking.

[Guest guest]

> >A stupid question - were the rats on guaifenesin before putting

them on the

> >whey? If not, it appears the whey alone does

> >appear to increase phosphate excretion.

> >

> >

> >

> > Guaifenesin and Immunpro

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Group,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have been lurking here since a friend told me about this

> > > group. I

> > > > > thought it was time to come out of the closet since a

discussion

> > > has been

> > > > > started on Guai and whey.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have been on Guaifenesin since Novemeber 23, 1997.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I was dx'd with FM in 1987 and thought my only problem

was not

> > > sleeping

> > > > > and leg pain. The story of my life is in " What Your Doctor

May

> > > Not Tell

> > > > You

> > > > > About Fibromyalgia " by R. St. Amand M.D. and

Mareck.

> > > I know

> > > > now

> > > > > that my first flare was at age 19. To make a long story

short IBS

> > > reared

> > > > its

> > > > > ugly head, followed by allergies, countless vaginal

infections

> > > leading to

> > > > a

> > > > > hysterectomy at age 34, bouts of depression and the list

goes

> > > on. I can

> > > > > plainly see the waxing and waning over the years of all the

> > > symptoms

> > > > leading

> > > > > to the final crash after a year of unrelenting stress

ending with

> > > the 93

> > > > flu

> > > > > shot. I became very sick two weeks after the shot and kept

> > > getting worse.

> > > > I

> > > > > had also become very sensitive to medications..everything

that is

> > > used for

> > > > > FM to help symptoms put me in the ER. I had 10 ER visits

the

> > > first year

> > > > and

> > > > > evey test for the heart there is since drugs speeded my

heart,

> > > nothing was

> > > > > found. I also suspect there was reactive hypglycemia

involved and

> > > it will

> > > > > not show up on a blood test.

http://www.tidalweb.com/fms/rhg.shtml

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I then decided to see an herbalist..and I was able to take

> > > herbs but

> > > > after

> > > > > nine months was no better. I traveled to a doctor of

Environmental

> > > > Medicine

> > > > > and did all the usual things..more herb, vitamins, vitamin

I.V.s,

> > > Armour

> > > > to

> > > > > try and get the temperature up, yeast and parasite cleanses,

> > > colonics,

> > > > > chelation, massage and you name it. I did all this for 6

months

> > > or more.

> > > > I

> > > > > then spent several months with a homeopath and followed his

> > > protocol to no

> > > > > avail. I read a book by an FM doctor that seemed to make

sense

> > > treating

> > > > > everything at once so off I was again and another round of

yeast

> > > killling.

> > > > > The test showed I had no parasites but yeast was still the

high

> > > end of

> > > > > normal. I tired NADH, MSM, Creatine, Myers Cocktails,

T3

> > > therapy,

> > > > > DHEA, low dose Cortisol and the list goes on. He was the

first

> > > doctor to

> > > > do

> > > > > all the necessary tests to rule out Lupus, Lymes, MS, RA,

and I

> > > can't

> > > > > remember what else. I had started hearing about Guai and

asked

> > > about it

> > > > and

> > > > > was told, not yet. Four months later...after no improvement

I was

> > > told to

> > > > > start Guai. I was told no herbs...but there is more to it

than no

> > > herbs.

> > > > It

> > > > > is salicyates in anything put on the skin. Guaifenesin can

be

> > > blocked at

> > > > the

> > > > > kidney level by salicylates.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You may read about the entire protocol on Dr. St. Amand's

site

> > > > > www.Guaidoc.com or at the Guai-Support International Site

> > > > > http://www.netromall.com/guai-support/. I was blocking the

first

> > > three

> > > > > months until I found the Guai-Support website and the

education

> > > began. The

> > > > > blockage by the mint in toothpaste was not learned for some

time

> > > so I was

> > > > > partially blocking with that. It is hard to weed out the

sals but

> > > an

> > > > > absolute must for this to work.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I also learned that a lot of people with FM are

> > > hypoglycemic..some

> > > > because

> > > > > of heredidty and some because of FM. The body is demanding

> > > energy..give me

> > > > > pasta or sugar and I will get energy the brain is saying. I

also

> > > learned

> > > > > that if you do not release insulin you do not pull

phosphates

> > > into the

> > > > > cells. Dr. St. Amand has his patients on a low

carbohydrate diet

> > > for the

> > > > > first two months to jump start them. Most of us have found

we

> > > feel better

> > > > > with this diet HG or not.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dr. St. Amand makes a map of the lumps and bumps in the

body.

> > > People

> > > > with

> > > > > CFS, FM and MCS all map out the lumps and bumps. I found a

> > > massage

> > > > therpist

> > > > > here that listened to me. He traveled to a seminar Dr. St.

Amand

> > > was

> > > > giving

> > > > > and went to the meeting for professionals and had the

opportunity

> > > to learn

> > > > > the mappng technique. He was finally ready to map. He

mapped me

> > > before I

> > > > > traveled to CA for an appointment with Dr. St. Amand. He

told me

> > > I must be

> > > > > blocking with something, I had gained some deposits and the

old

> > > ones were

> > > > > harder. I did not think so, I was so sure I was not

blocking. Dr.

> > > St.

> > > > Amand

> > > > > confirmed it. It took two weeks to find out the culprit. I

knew

> > > my mapper

> > > > > knew what he was doing and a hard lesson was learned about

> > > salicylates. I

> > > > > had blocked for three months and my map was going backwards

fast.

> > > I

> > > > cleared

> > > > > it out in one month and I was on my way again. I am now

mapped

> > > once a

> > > > month

> > > > > to be certain of not blocking and that the dose is right.

> > > > > > I have learned that my map strands still at 1800mg Guai

so I am

> > > taking

> > > > > 2400 at this point. You have to titrate up slowly to find

you

> > > cycling

> > > > dose.

> > > > > The instructions are in the book and on the sites.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A GG group member wrote to me about my progress and

mentioned

> > > he was

> > > > > taking whey. I was leery about another so called cure. He

also

> > > sent me a

> > > > > lot of research and I finally decided, why not. I found out

NEEDS

> > > was

> > > > having

> > > > > a sale on Immunepro so I ordered some. I started at 1/4

tespoon

> > > and

> > > > started

> > > > > purging phophates in 6 hours. I was not sure if it was a

regular

> > > cycle or

> > > > > not I knew it was not as I titrated the dose to 1 tsp.over

time.

> > > I purged

> > > > > constantly for about two months. I am taking about eyes

burning,

> > > mouth

> > > > > burning, hot coming out of everywhere..bubbles and

particles in

> > > the urine.

> > > > > It also helps to take Cal-Mag with meals as the calcium

binds

> > > with the

> > > > > phosphates and takes them out in the stool.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have either been dealing with a virus or a huge cycle of

> > > sinus and

> > > > ears

> > > > > clearing the past couple of weeks. I just finished a

course of

> > > Tequin and

> > > > > Claritin. I had fluid in my ears and vertigo which was not

fun.

> > > I went

> > > > off

> > > > > whey then to calm down the cycle. I saw my MT yesterday, he

> > > thinks it is

> > > > due

> > > > > to the heavy cycling in the neck and shoulders and I am

feeling

> > > much

> > > > better

> > > > > today after he loosened me up. My maps have been improving

all

> > > along and

> > > > > yesterday was not my regular mapping day but he felt a lot

more

> > > changes

> > > > and

> > > > > we got out the last map. I had completely lost a big

shoulder

> > > deposit,

> > > > the

> > > > > right side of my back has totally cleared

> > > > > > a big deposit that was very puffed with fluid and ready to

> > > clear last

> > > > > month was gone. My MT will do my regular mapping on

December 18

> > > and I will

> > > > > put on a report after. Oh, I had been on Immunepro about one

> > > month at my

> > > > > last regular mapping and my MT commented about a change in

my

> > > muscles

> > > > BEFORE

> > > > > I told him about taking whey.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To end, there is NO DOUBT in my mind that wehy is

enhancing

> > > Guai. I was

> > > > > about 80% when not cycling on Guai after 3 years and some

> > > blocking. Guai

> > > > > takes two months for every year of FM and I know now I was

born

> > > with it.

> > > > I

> > > > > planned on 5-6 years to remission but whey is going to

shorten

> > > that time,

> > > > I

> > > > > am sure of it now.. I tried Guai because nothing else had

worked

> > > and I had

> > > > > nothing to lose. I belong to the support list that was

about 250

> > > or so

> > > > when

> > > > > I joined and it is now about 2000 strong.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Oh, one last thing, Guai thins the blood to a certain

extent. I

> > > remember

> > > > > reading a post about a study on that in the archives of

the Guai-

> > > Support

> > > > > Group but cannot remember the details. I have read many

posts in

> > > this

> > > > group

> > > > > about our thick blood.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The FAQs on the sites will answer most questions on Guai.

> > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > > Margaret Bush..AL

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal

experiences

> > > with each

> > > > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in

any

> > > treatment

> > > > discussed here, please consult your doctor.

> > > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > This list is intended for patients to share personal

experiences with each

> >other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment

> >discussed here, please consult your doctor.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with each

> >other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment

> >discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

> Bravo

> Harvard University

> Biochemical Sciences Tutorial Office and Library

> Fairchild 193

> 7 Divinity Avenue

> Cambridge, MA 02138

> gbravo@f...

> (617)496-5129, (617)495-4106

> FAX: (617)496-6148

[Guest guest]

,

It seems to me that salicylates would not be able to block all of

the actions of Immunepro, because it supplies the amino acids

needed to make glutathione, and glutathione has many other actions

in the body beside helping to excrete more phosphate, as Greg Bravo

has discovered. Whether salicylates can block the action of Immunepro

is helping to excrete more phosphate, I don't know. I don't think we

know (biochemically) how guaifenesin acts to increase phosphate

excretion, and how salicylates block it. Dr. St. Amand's book

suggests that salicylates compete with guaifenesin for a receptor site

in the kidneys. I don't know if he has proof for that, or whether it

is just a hypothesis. In any case, he doesn't identify the receptor.

Perhaps some of the people who have been taking Immunepro and also

some form of salicylate can say whether they think they are dumping

phosphate, on the basis of the characteristics of their urine.

Rich

> I have a question. If Immunepro works similar to Guaifenesin, do

salacylates

> inhibit Immunepro from working like it does Guaifenesin?

>

>

> lindaj@h...

>

> Re: Guaifenesin and Immunpro

>

>

> >

> > > So do you think it is possible to rid any excess phosphates with

> > just the

> > > whey.

> >

> > According to the study done on rats 20% more phosphates were

> > released.

> >

> > There is no doubt in my mind now after about 21/2 months on

ImmunePro

> > that it in enhancing Guaifenesin for me! I know because I am

purging

> > all the time...bubbles, particles and sometimes the urine is so

thick

> > the stream stops and starts, it is also milky looking. Oh, did I

> > mention burning. The phosphates turn to phosphoric acid when

> > released. We Guai users even resort to zinc oxide ointment and Bag

> > Balm from the chemical burn from the urine. This has happened with

> > Guai alone but in a more cyclic manner.