Re: Buteyko/Hale breathing

[Guest guest]

Can you please outline what this Buteyko breathing method is. I gather from

what you say it's nose breathing with attention to deep diaphragm movement,

and also shallow breathing. What else? How often? If it's cheap, what

costs (breathing is free). Thanks, Kerry.

>

> It's a very cheap way to do something about the oxigen content of your

body

> although it will take more time than HBOT to get the same effect. I got

the

> information from Ken's site + his references.

>

..

[Guest guest]

nne,

I didn't see your other post. You say that " It's way too early to see any

effects for my allergies of course " . In contrast, I found Buteyko fantastic

for STOPPING hayfever in its tracks. If I have a blocked nose or bad

hayfever, and I am disciplined enough to do it, I can clear the nose and

stop the hayfever in 5 minutes by a sustained bout of Buteyko

breathing. This is an amazing thing to me, and works EVERY time. I do

find it hard to limit breathing to the amount necessary though, so I don't

do it as often as I should.

So opposite from you, I found it useful in the very short term, but never

practiced it long enough or regularly enough to determine if it made any

long term changes. My feeling is that it is a very good thing for PWCs of

the allergic type, and I wonder if it might be good for improving immune

function in other ways. The basic theory gets quickly to NO levels and CO2

levels in the blood, then humoral pH, so there is a lot of scope for big

bodily changes. I agree with others that it is a great tool for PWCs.

Cheers,

n

At 02:29 05/11/00, you wrote:

>Hello all,

>

>Sometime ago I asked for experiences with this breathing technique and didt't

>get any answers. I have tried it now for about 6 weeks and I just sent a first

>mail to the support group I have found, which I like to share with you.

>

>It's a very cheap way to do something about the oxigen content of your body

>although it will take more time than HBOT to get the same effect. I got the

>information from Ken's site + his references.

>

>nne

>

>

> >My name is nne and I live in Holland. I am new to this list and I

> have been

> >reading it for 2 weeks and have already learned so much here!

>

> >I have cfs, food allergies and mcs. Last year I was tested positive for

> >mycoplasma and I now take antibiotics for that. Also I have been doing

> EPD for

> >the allergies for 2 years.

>

> >I found out about Buteyko breathing about 6 weeks ago and started trying to

> >exercise but not very regular. However I try to only nose breathe and do

> shallow

> >breathing whenever I think of it. Also I do walks with only nosebreathing

> >several times a week and try the same swimming. I can feel already a big

> >difference in my breathing, I can now feel my abdominal, stomach and

> diaphragm

> >muscles work and they have loosened up a lot. When this afternoon on a

> walk I

> >tried a bit of (slow) jogging (50 m) I didn't get out of breath

> immediately as

> >before, but felt the bad state of all my muscles!

>

> >With this kind of breathing I feel better after a walk of an hour instead of

> >worse. It's way too early to see any effects for my allergies of course,

> but I

> >am already so happy to have found out about Buteyko and this group :-) .

>

>

>NB. also very happy with this group and everything I have learned here :-)).

>Thank you all!

>

>

>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

>other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

>discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

n,

I don't have any allergy symptoms directly related to breathing (no problems

with hayfever, cats, dustmites, molds etc at all). They all are food allergies

and chemical sensitivities. To have an effect with these it is necessary to get

the body chemistry right again. I think it can be done this way, saw some

examples on the support list, but it will take time. I hope it will take less

time for me because with the abx I already have done a lot about the probable

cause of this all (the mycoplama, loving a low oxigen environment).

I feel sure this technique is for me the missing link to get my body/brain in

shape again combined with the abx (and EPD for faster improvement of

allergies/sensitivities). Even with the somewhat irregular way I am doing it

now, I think I'm experiencing some detoxing/herxing symptoms.

nne

n wrote:

>

> nne,

> I didn't see your other post. You say that " It's way too early to see any

> effects for my allergies of course " . In contrast, I found Buteyko fantastic

> for STOPPING hayfever in its tracks. If I have a blocked nose or bad

> hayfever, and I am disciplined enough to do it, I can clear the nose and

> stop the hayfever in 5 minutes by a sustained bout of Buteyko

> breathing. This is an amazing thing to me, and works EVERY time. I do

> find it hard to limit breathing to the amount necessary though, so I don't

> do it as often as I should.

>

> So opposite from you, I found it useful in the very short term, but never

> practiced it long enough or regularly enough to determine if it made any

> long term changes. My feeling is that it is a very good thing for PWCs of

> the allergic type, and I wonder if it might be good for improving immune

> function in other ways. The basic theory gets quickly to NO levels and CO2

> levels in the blood, then humoral pH, so there is a lot of scope for big

> bodily changes. I agree with others that it is a great tool for PWCs.

>

> Cheers,

> n

[Guest guest]

Parkinson wrote:

>

> Can you please outline what this Buteyko breathing method is. I gather from

> what you say it's nose breathing with attention to deep diaphragm movement,

> and also shallow breathing. What else? How often? If it's cheap, what

> costs (breathing is free). Thanks, Kerry.

> >

> > It's a very cheap way to do something about the oxigen content of your

> body

> > although it will take more time than HBOT to get the same effect. I got

> the

> > information from Ken's site + his references.

Hello ,

As you say, breathing is free. The only costs are time to research it and maybe

a videotape if you want something more than the information on the net. Also

there are some Buteyko practioners who give courses (usual is 5/6 lessons), but

there are very few in the U.S.

For PWC's in my opinion the main thing is nose breathing always, and as shallow

as possible as often as you can. A key point in the method is a test of CO2

levels by counting how long you can pause between breaths. This count is then

seen as a measure of your total health state. You can use it for measuring your

progress. This pausing between breaths is also used as a technique for

improving your CO2 levels. It works very well with asthma attacks or hay fever

as n describes.

It should work also for PWC's in general but it will be more difficult to

pinpoint short term changes and they probably will be different for all, as

always with CFS :-)

Ken's page with breathing http://www.folkarts.com/idef/breathing.htm

the Australian site from Ken I started with

http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm

the page from this site with a DIY description

http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/a & j.htm

Good Dutch site I worked from http://home.planet.nl/~jurrian/index.htm

nne

[Guest guest]

nne,

Aha now I see... two more questions in the interests of accurately

monitoring another lab-rat...

Are you on abx cyclically or continuously?

Does EPD do anything for you (I have lots of the more troublesome allergies

like food and moulds etc too, but have seen very mixed reports about EPD).

Pls keep the list posted with your progress on all these fronts. I am

especially interested to see if anyone gets good results for difficult

allergies with Buteyko.

Thanks for your answer,

n

At 09:16 06/11/00, you wrote:

>n,

>

>I don't have any allergy symptoms directly related to breathing (no problems

>with hayfever, cats, dustmites, molds etc at all). They all are food allergies

>and chemical sensitivities. To have an effect with these it is necessary

>to get

>the body chemistry right again. I think it can be done this way, saw some

>examples on the support list, but it will take time. I hope it will take less

>time for me because with the abx I already have done a lot about the probable

>cause of this all (the mycoplama, loving a low oxigen environment).

>

>I feel sure this technique is for me the missing link to get my body/brain in

>shape again combined with the abx (and EPD for faster improvement of

>allergies/sensitivities). Even with the somewhat irregular way I am doing it

>now, I think I'm experiencing some detoxing/herxing symptoms.

>

>nne

[Guest guest]

Hello n,

Sorry for not answering sooner.

I am on abx in 8 week cycles of 6 weeks abx and 2 weeks off. But when I'm off

and are feeling worse I can start again immediately. The last time I stopped for

12 days and had slight Herxing for about 5/6 days.

The EPD had already done a lot for me before the abx (about 6 shots in 16

months): food allergies were better and the chemicals had been mostly unmasking

and were maybe a little better.

The EPD-shot two months after starting abx was not good, I sensitised to a lot

of new things and felt much the worse for energy (but foods were even better and

also the 'old' chemicals were getting better). Energy got better again when I

found out that I had sensitized to my general supplement.

After that I had my next EPD last month. This time all went really well and for

the first time I felt a real 'kick in' at three weeks, got more energy and it

stayed.

The problem with the abx and EPD must be in my opinion that when starting Abx

the Herxheimer reaction makes you more reactive. I sensitised to some things 3

days after starting abx and then 6 weeks later with the EPD some more. When

doing EPD while the herxing is still around you get a problem in my opinion.

With the last one I planned my abx pause around the shot even if my doctor

thought the effects of the two should be unrelated (and I will keep doing that).

One thing which I think is interesting in all this is my weight gain and loss:

from elimination diet and EPD I lost 40 pounds in a year. After I started abx I

gained 40 pounds related to the various sensitivity reactions in that period.

With the Buteyko breathing I have lost some pounds for the first time not

directly related to allergies/sensitivities. I think it is helping me to detox

and I hope to keep this up.

My doctor is a very good CFS doctor with lots of experience with EPD and most of

the things discussed on this list, but the combination of abx and EPD is still

so new... and of course we're all different..

From a lab-rat indeed :-))

nne

n wrote:

>

> nne,

>

> Aha now I see... two more questions in the interests of accurately

> monitoring another lab-rat...

>

> Are you on abx cyclically or continuously?

>

> Does EPD do anything for you (I have lots of the more troublesome allergies

> like food and moulds etc too, but have seen very mixed reports about EPD).

>

> Pls keep the list posted with your progress on all these fronts. I am

> especially interested to see if anyone gets good results for difficult

> allergies with Buteyko.

>

> Thanks for your answer,

>

> n

[Guest guest]

I am also using the method and am wondering if wearing something like a dust

mask would enhance the intake of CO2 thus assisting the technique?

Phil

nne van Gent wrote:

> Hello all,

>

> Sometime ago I asked for experiences with this breathing technique and didt't

> get any answers. I have tried it now for about 6 weeks and I just sent a first

> mail to the support group I have found, which I like to share with you.

>

> It's a very cheap way to do something about the oxigen content of your body

> although it will take more time than HBOT to get the same effect. I got the

> information from Ken's site + his references.

>

> nne

>

> >My name is nne and I live in Holland. I am new to this list and I have

been

> >reading it for 2 weeks and have already learned so much here!

>

> >I have cfs, food allergies and mcs. Last year I was tested positive for

> >mycoplasma and I now take antibiotics for that. Also I have been doing EPD

for

> >the allergies for 2 years.

>

> >I found out about Buteyko breathing about 6 weeks ago and started trying to

> >exercise but not very regular. However I try to only nose breathe and do

shallow

> >breathing whenever I think of it. Also I do walks with only nosebreathing

> >several times a week and try the same swimming. I can feel already a big

> >difference in my breathing, I can now feel my abdominal, stomach and

diaphragm

> >muscles work and they have loosened up a lot. When this afternoon on a walk I

> >tried a bit of (slow) jogging (50 m) I didn't get out of breath immediately

as

> >before, but felt the bad state of all my muscles!

>

> >With this kind of breathing I feel better after a walk of an hour instead of

> >worse. It's way too early to see any effects for my allergies of course, but

I

> >am already so happy to have found out about Buteyko and this group :-) .

>

> NB. also very happy with this group and everything I have learned here :-)).

[Guest guest]

Hello Phil,

I don't know myself, but there was a similar question on the Buteyko list this

week, which was answered as follows by an experienced 'Buteykonist':

>>Using a paper bag is not as good as reduced Buteyko shallow breathing and in

a panic, someone could use it. It will not change anything in the long run

<<....

>>As for masking, I think that Buteyko even tried something like this

in the past with young children and I will ask the Starks to put this

question to him. <<

Phil Comer wrote:

>

> I am also using the method and am wondering if wearing something like a dust

mask would enhance the intake of CO2 thus assisting the technique?

>

> Phil