Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 wrote: > Also something interesting is that a lot of these co called CFS diets > I notice tend to be high in animal protein. When I consume moderate > amounts of animal protein every day, my body has a way of telling me > something i think. Basically I could clear a room in 5 seconds flat. > Ghastly! But when I eat vegetarian, I don't have any odiferous > problems like that. > > So go figure. I could eat a high protein diet and smell like a > rotting sewer (and I am not exxagerating) or I can just eat veggie > and healthy and skip the " special diets " . , Now you've got me puzzled. I believe that foul smelling flatus indicates that your G.I. system is not digesting and absorbing protein well. The reason is that animal protein, in particular, contains considerable cysteine and methionine, the sulfur-containing amino acids. If these are not absorbed in the small intestine, they move on down to the large intestine, which is loaded with anaerobic bacteria. They convert the sulfur to foul-smelling gases. So far, so good. But here's the puzzle. In August you reported that Dr. had found that the amino acid levels in your blood were normal. In my experience, these two don't usually go together. In the main subset of PWCs, I believe that the cells tend to burn amino acids for fuel, because of partial blockades in the Krebs cycle, which limit the catabolism of carbohydrates and fats. If the gut is not absorbing them from ingested protein, then the levels in the blood should go down. But yours aren't low! I wonder if you are in another subset.... Would you mind saying what happens when you eat a food that is high in fat? Do you have much fat in your diet at present? How about sugars and starches? Can you derive energy from them? Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 Hi , I agree that the diet dilemma is frustrating & I've gone through many diets, even fasting. I now believe my own body is my best guide. If high protein causes gas for you and a vegetarian diet makes you feel better. Then go with a vegetarian diet, that's what your body is saying to you. There are so many different opinions, studies and books on diet; yet nothing is proven as being right for everyone. I believe that it is very individualized. Your own body's reaction is important to watch: gas, constipation or diarrhea, stomach or colon discomfort, bloating, runny nose, hives or rash suggest food problems. If you eat vegetarian and all goes well, don't worry about it. You probably don't have a food problem. If you want to check food sensitivities, you could take a test like the ALCAT. Also, and I don't mean this in a rude way but in a supportive way, if you are able to work fulltime, you are not doing so badly based on what many people with this illness go through. I was bedridden the first year and a half, in constant pain, couldn't hold up my head or hold up a book. I've had disabling pain and fatigue every single day for 12 years and have had to use a wheelchair for the last four years. I have to rest 60 to 80% of most days or the pain is more than I can bear and no medication stops it. And many people on this message board are going through similar or worse symptoms. I'm telling you this for the purpose of hoping that you can get a calmer perspective about what is happening to you. Calming your anxiety might be one of the best things you could do for yourself because we all know that stressful thoughts have a chemical effect on the body. I know that this is frustrating and creates anxiety and sadness. One strategy that I have learned when I start feeling stressed or hopeless is to name off everything that is positive about my life and remind myself that new treatments are coming along all the time. I also take Klonopin each evening, which calms the mind. Do you take it? It could be helpful. Dr. Cheney even recommends taking a half or quarter tablet during the day. Many herbs are calming also. Medical hypnotherapy can help to relax the mind and give a different perspective. The way we cope with this illness mentally and emotionally is as important as the food and pills we swallow. I offer all this to you in the hope that it can help you to deal with the changes that are happening to you. I offer it caringly. I hope you receive it in the same way. Best wishes, Sandy Blue89@... wrote: > > Can anyone relate to me on thi subject. I keep reading about people > discusing their food allergies this and that. And I tried this diet > and it helped or I tried that diet and it helped. It really stresses > me out. > > First of all, I've tried Akers 10 week elimination diet back > in the beginning of my illness. Didn't help. Then I did The Zone diet > VERY VERY strictly (weighing my food, etc) for several months. > Nothing. > > Then I tried eliminiating wheat for a few weeks. Again, nothing. All > of this diet stuff becomes excruiatingly distressing to me since I am > still working full time. I simply cannot understand how anyone can > work fulltime with this illness and have the time or energy left over > to plan, shop, and prepare all these special diets. Don't even get me > started on the " Candida " diet. > > I can barely make it to the grocery store every two weeks to find > reasonably healthy food. My diets tends to be very healthy, although > I do blow it and eat junk. > > Now I fear that I am missing something (like maybe I need to go > completely gluten free for 2 months or something) that could cure me, > but I just cna't handle the stress of the dieting. > > Has anyone else experienced this? It just makes me crazy. No diet has > ever cured me or had any effect on my health, but I stress out that I > am missing THE ONE DIET that WILL CURE ME! But I can't get it > together to plan and stick to such a diet. > > Also something interesting is that a lot of these co called CFS diets > I notice tend to be high in animal protein. When I consume moderate > amounts of animal protein every day, my body has a way of telling me > something i think. Basically I could clear a room in 5 seconds flat. > Ghastly! But when I eat vegetarian, I don't have any odiferous > problems like that. > > So go figure. I could eat a high protein diet and smell like a > rotting sewer (and I am not exxagerating) or I can just eat veggie > and healthy and skip the " special diets " . > > Oh god it all stresses me out so much. > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 Hi Rich thanks for your studious notice of my post. You are correct. Dr. 's amino acid profile showed that my levels were all normal, and this was definitely during a time when I was consuming animal protein (and consequently experiencing the demonic gas from hell). > Would you mind saying what happens when you eat a food that is high > in > fat? Hmmm. My diet tends to be pretty low in fat. But when I do eat high fat, the only thing I can think of that I feel really full and if it's fried fatty icky stuff like fast food, I'm in trouble (see below). Do you have much fat in your diet at present? Not much. I try to get it pretty lean. How about sugars > and starches? These days I am eating organic health food easy prep meals like Amy's pre-made stuff, also some veggies, fruits, beans, hummus, peanut butter, occasionally pizza and veggie burgers. I also have been eating bagels lately. I dont notice any immediate difference in my GI functioning or CFS symptoms in correlation to my eating, except that a fatty fried meal like Mcs would send me to the bathroom in a 5 seconds flat. Can you derive energy from them? I don't seem to be able to derive energy from anything. When I was eating only organic, antibitic free meats and organic fruits and veggies (mostly during my Zone days), I felt no difference in my CFS symptoms. I dont know if that sheds any light. But you rock for even paying attention to me. Oh I foprgot to mention that as long as I take Psyllium seed powder in liquid every day, I tend to be pretty normal. If not, I cna be very irregular. I have a somewhat irritable bowel. (mild-moderate constipation alternating with frequent loose urgent stools) but my irritable bowel, which I can definitely live with and which is not at all incapaciating (like CFS) has been with me since childhood, pre-CFS. Work-ups GALORE over the years, including biopsies, tests, endoscopies, and colonoscopies for Crohn's and Celiac Disease, have been negative. > > > Also something interesting is that a lot of these co called CFS > diets > > I notice tend to be high in animal protein. When I consume moderate > > amounts of animal protein every day, my body has a way of telling > me > > something i think. Basically I could clear a room in 5 seconds > flat. > > Ghastly! But when I eat vegetarian, I don't have any odiferous > > problems like that. > > > > So go figure. I could eat a high protein diet and smell like a > > rotting sewer (and I am not exxagerating) or I can just eat veggie > > and healthy and skip the " special diets " . > > , > > Now you've got me puzzled. I believe that foul smelling flatus > indicates that your G.I. system is not digesting and absorbing > protein > well. The reason is that animal protein, in particular, contains > considerable cysteine and methionine, the sulfur-containing amino > acids. If these are not absorbed in the small intestine, they move > on > down to the large intestine, which is loaded with anaerobic bacteria. > They convert the sulfur to foul-smelling gases. > > So far, so good. But here's the puzzle. In August you reported that > Dr. had found that the amino acid levels in your blood were > normal. In my experience, these two don't usually go together. In > the main subset of PWCs, I believe that the cells tend to burn amino > acids for fuel, because of partial blockades in the Krebs cycle, > which > limit the catabolism of carbohydrates and fats. If the gut is not > absorbing them from ingested protein, then the levels in the blood > should go down. But yours aren't low! I wonder if you are in > another subset.... > > Would you mind saying what happens when you eat a food that is high > in > fat? Do you have much fat in your diet at present? How about sugars > and starches? Can you derive energy from them? > > Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 Blue89@... wrote: > I can barely make it to the grocery store every two weeks to find > reasonably healthy food. My diets tends to be very healthy, although > I do blow it and eat junk. > > Now I fear that I am missing something (like maybe I need to go > completely gluten free for 2 months or something) that could cure me, > but I just cna't handle the stress of the dieting. > > Has anyone else experienced this? It just makes me crazy. No diet has > ever cured me or had any effect on my health, but I stress out that I > am missing THE ONE DIET that WILL CURE ME! But I can't get it > together to plan and stick to such a diet. > , sit down, take several deep, slow breaths, and RELAX!!!!! ;@) Worrying about your diet is doing you more harm than what you're eating or not eating, I assure you. Everyone has a different " best diet " , I am convinced. But please don't stress out over it. Try eating fresh, nutritious food with a minimum of " garbage " added, eat a variety rather than eating the same thing over and over, and you'll be fine. I've noticed that even the big chain supermarkets are now carrying frozen organic veggies, and you can usually get freshly roasted chickens and some kind of salad bar or containers of freshly cut up fruit. Pop a potato or yam into the toaster oven, and you've got dinner! Hear this: THERE IS NO ONE DIET THAT WILL CURE YOU. There is no magic wand. There is no known cure for CFIDS (yet - I'm still cautiously hopeful ;@). All there are, are different treatments and lifestyle changes that have helped some people and not others. If you had the time and energy to spend on it, I'd really suggest you go to an NAET practitioner. They can figure out EXACTLY what your body is reacting to, and in almost all cases, eliminate the problem. You only have to " eat weird " for 25 hours after each treatment. And you don't end up eliminating all kinds of healthy foods that way. If you want to avoid that particular hassle, I think your best bet is to keep a food/symptom diary. No, you don't have to weigh and measure. Just note the time, what you ate (incl brand names or restaurant names), and time and description of any symptoms - headache, spaciness, sleepiness, abdominal cramps, flatulence, etc. Once a week or so, page back through it and see if you can decipher any patterns. For example, my husband used to get IBS symptoms (cramps, gas, diarrhea alternating with constipation) starting about 36 hours after eating wheat. For him, a gluten-free diet turned out to be the right thing. I was able to nail down some migraine triggers using a food diary - if the headache comes more than 45 minutes after the food, I tend not to associate them unless I see it written down in the diary. But seeing that I always got a migraine the morning after I had balsamic vinegar in my dinner was pretty convincing. I also have times when I don't have the energy to cook, and resort in desperation to drive-thru. Using the food diary, I was able to figure out that I could tolerate an occasional Burger King Whopper (no mayo, extra tomatoes and pickles) as long as I didn't have any fries or soft drinks with it. Broiled chicken club sandwich = fine, deep-fried chicken club sandwich = problems. Anything with commercial mayo had about an 85% chance of giving me a headache within four hours; so I'll go to Subway and get a sub sandwich with oil, vinegar, parmesan, and oregano as dressing, with no mayo. " Your mileage may vary " applies more to diet than anything else we talk about (and it applies to almost everything we talk about, anyway :@). The only way to know how you really react to food is to keep a food diary. But don't stress yourself out over it! In fact, you might want to try this: every time you're about to eat something, sit down, close your eyes, and take three deep, slow breaths. Thicht Nat Han (sp?) has a bunch of little verses like mantras that you can say (silently) to yourself; an easy one is " breathing in, I smile; breathing out, I relax " . Do that 3 times and then open your eyes and eat in peace! Best wishes, -- el - andrea@... (IFF " FNORD " appears - remove it from my email address to reply) " ...wake now! Discover that you are the song that the morning brings... " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 Sandy Olson wrote: > I know that this is frustrating and creates anxiety and sadness. > One strategy that I have learned when I start feeling stressed or > hopeless > is to name off everything that is positive about my life and remind > myself > that new treatments are coming along all the time. I also take > Klonopin > each evening, which calms the mind. Do you take it? It could be > helpful. > Dr. Cheney even recommends taking a half or quarter tablet during the > day. > Many herbs are calming also. Medical hypnotherapy can help to relax > the > mind and give a different perspective. The way we cope with this > illness mentally and emotionally is as important as the food and pills > > we > swallow. I offer all this to you in the hope that it can help you to > deal > with the changes that are happening to you. I offer it caringly. I > hope > you receive it in the same way. Best wishes, Sandy > Sandy, what a lovely, caring post! Thanks for injecting a sweet note to the discussion. BTW, has anyone else read Ram Dass' new book, " Still Here " ? I found it absolutely wonderful. It's about dealing with aging, changing, and death, and also about how he is dealing with the disability from a serious cerebral hemorrhage. I'm only 46, but the mental, emotional, and spiritual changes I've had to make in the last decade due to this illness are very like those he discusses with respect to age and disability. It's a very accessible, enjoyable book, and if you could use a gentle change in perspective, I highly recommend it. -- el - andrea@... (IFF " FNORD " appears - remove it from my email address to reply) " ...wake now! Discover that you are the song that the morning brings... " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 I simply cannot understand how anyone can > work fulltime with this illness and have the time or energy left over > to plan, shop, and prepare all these special diets > > I can barely make it to the grocery store every two weeks to find > reasonably healthy food. My diets tends to be very healthy, although > I do blow it and eat junk. Hi , Ditto. sounds like my M.O. for about 13 years! I don't work anymore and still have trouble keeping food in the house to eat according to my strict paleolithic diet. When I am having a difficult day or have to leave the house, I can't possibly keep up with the cooking of 3 meals a day. It is a parttime job. I'm sorry to hear you are stressed out over diet. With working, you have enough to stress over! > Also something interesting is that a lot of these co called CFS diets > I notice tend to be high in animal protein. When I consume moderate > amounts of animal protein every day, my body has a way of telling me > something i think. Basically I could clear a room in 5 seconds flat. > Ghastly! But when I eat vegetarian, I don't have any odiferous > problems like that. --I was vegetarian for years and strictly resisted meat for numerous reasons. I had 3 different nutritionists recommend animal protein but I refused to listen. My doc ran an amino acid profile and I'm very low in most of them, as Rich referred to. This Dr. convinced me that I need meat to survive. Like you, I also find the odor of animal protein excretion revolting. (sorry gang) And meat is slower for my intestines to process. However, by eliminating everything all at once--dairy, greasy food (except tons of olive oil), grains, beans, sugar, processed and fermented foods, and additive chemicals, I did have a remarkable remission of FM symptoms. Probably DO have food sensitivites from permeable gut. My gut ecology is still far from perfect. One thing I learned from seeing various nutritionists, is that many types of nutritional plans work but none seem to work for all. I have type O blood and have been eating against " my type " all my life. The diet I eat now just happens to be recommended for me by the blood type diet book. Not that I believe that diet will work for everyone either. I think Steve B. said that diabetics " need to lose interest in food. " (Hopefully memory serves me with the right credit). A profound point! A shift in attitude to disinterest which requires a disconnection from cravings, comfort eating and food addictions is so freeing. Stopping to eat those foods allowed my body to no longer crave them. Now I've lost interest and yet can enjoy food. Who knows? You may be eating the perfect diet for your body and its type of illness. Take care, Uma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 Thanks to Sandy and . I do appreciate it. I know I have to chill out. I'm an anxious puppy. Was even before this illness, so you can imagine what CFS has done to my anxiety levels. It's good for me to keep things in perspective. It's weird becuase this illness can affect me not as badly as others but when it's your own life you easily forget that. But also when I say that I am working fulltime, please understand that I am not trying to make anyone feel bad about not being able to do that and also understand that I have trouble working, sometimes GREAT trouble. FOr instance last week I came home one day from work climbed into bed and said " thats it, I'm calling disability tomorrow! " . Then I feel a little bit better and start thinking I might be able to continue working fulltime. Its kind of a crazy rollercoaster. If I could just find that ONE thing to give me a 20% leg up, I'd be ok with working (and doing nothing else). I did try NAET a couple years back and it didnt help me, but I also looking back question the ability of the practitioner. I have considered finding a better one. Thanks again, > > > I know that this is frustrating and creates anxiety and sadness. > > One strategy that I have learned when I start feeling stressed or > > hopeless > > is to name off everything that is positive about my life and remind > > myself > > that new treatments are coming along all the time. I also take > > Klonopin > > each evening, which calms the mind. Do you take it? It could be > > helpful. > > Dr. Cheney even recommends taking a half or quarter tablet during the > > day. > > Many herbs are calming also. Medical hypnotherapy can help to relax > > the > > mind and give a different perspective. The way we cope with this > > illness mentally and emotionally is as important as the food and pills > > > > we > > swallow. I offer all this to you in the hope that it can help you to > > deal > > with the changes that are happening to you. I offer it caringly. I > > hope > > you receive it in the same way. Best wishes, Sandy > > > > Sandy, what a lovely, caring post! Thanks for injecting a sweet note to > the discussion. > > BTW, has anyone else read Ram Dass' new book, " Still Here " ? I found it > absolutely wonderful. It's about dealing with aging, changing, and > death, and also about how he is dealing with the disability from a > serious cerebral hemorrhage. I'm only 46, but the mental, emotional, > and spiritual changes I've had to make in the last decade due to this > illness are very like those he discusses with respect to age and > disability. It's a very accessible, enjoyable book, and if you could > use a gentle change in perspective, I highly recommend it. > > > -- > > el - andrea@o... > (IFF " FNORD " appears - remove it from my email address to reply) > > " ...wake now! Discover that you are the song th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 Unfortunately, these foods also give me IBS problems. . . Re: Fw: Re: FOOD talk! > > > Kathy wrote: > > > Rich, I don't get foul flatulence when I eat protein, only when I eat > > onion, > > garlic, broccoli, cabbage, etc. > > > > The foods that give you flatulence all require a particular amylase to > break down the starch, and when you are deficient in that amylase, the > bacteria in your bowels digest the starch and produce the flatulence. > Fortunately, this is easily remedied - pick up a little bottle of > " Beano " or one of the similar products, and put a couple drops on your > first bite of these foods. Should solve the problem. > > > -- > > el - andrea@... > (IFF " FNORD " appears - remove it from my email address to reply) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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