Re: KIRKMAN - vegicaps vs gelatin

[Guest guest]

Several members of this group have tried to determine the rate that

both gelatin capsules and vegi-caps break down in the stomach. Some

parents have felt that gelatin may dissolve faster.

We have read that some parents are taking products out of vegicaps

and putting them in gelatin capsules. The rate of dissolution is an

important question. It is a question that has a proven scietific

answer.

We asked our capsule supplier that produces both forms of capsules to

give us the comparison based onn their laboratory testing. (they have

nothing to gain one way or the other) Their tests are very

sophisticated and replicate what goes on in the digestive tract.

Their information must be accurate since it is used by pharmaceutical

manufacturers.

In short, dissolution rates are about the same. The gelatin is a

little faster. The information is as follows:

COMPARISON OF DISSOLUTION RATE OF HPMC AND GELTATIN CAPSULES

Capsules were filled with acetaminophen. Both HPMC and gelatin

capsules were size 0 natural/natural% acetaminophen in solution (the

following is the average of 6 capsules in six trials)

in 15 minutes

HPMC (vegi) -- 47.9% complete

GELATIN -- 61.7% complete

in 30 minutes

HPMC (vegi) -- 83.4% complete

GELATIN -- 93.3% complete

in 45 minutes

HPMC (vegi) -- 96.9% complete

GELATIN -- 100% complete

in 60 minutes

HPMC (vegi) -- 100% complete

GELATIN -- 100% complete

At Kirkman we only use vegi-caps and will not use gelatin. Vegi caps

are more expensive (about 2x) and the filling machines do not run as

fast. To us it is worth the cost and effort. Other companies such as

Tyler and VRP (both sell products primarily to Doctors) are also

switching over 100% to Vegicaps. There is now such a demand for

vegicaps that small manufactures like Kirkman are having a difficult

time buying them. We are warehousing a backlog so we will not run out.

Why don't we use gelatin?? It would be a business advantage since it

is cheaper.

The reason is that we are concerned that gelatin MAY not be good for

children with immune disorders. We know that vegicaps are 100% safe.

Gelatin is made from tissue scrapings from the hide and bones of cows

and pigs. This is not a good thing. Dr. Shaw from Great Plains Labs

has expressed concern about gelatin's affect on children with autism.

He presented this at a recent autism conference.

The FDA is also looking into the safety of gelatin (much of it comes

from European countries). This also concerns us.

This was reported on CNN as follows:

www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9704/24/nfm/

CNN

FDA advised to look at mad cow disease risk from gelatin

April 25, 1997

Web posted at: 12:06 a.m. EDT (0406 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Federal regulators are looking at whether any

risk exists in the use of gelatin from countries where mad cow

disease exists.

Think gelatin, and Jell-O wiggles to mind. But the substance that

aids in congealment crops up in a wide range of products, including

makeup and skin creams, cake mixes and gummy bears, vitamins, gel

caps used for drugs and even vaccines. Gelatin is derived from the

skin and bones of cattle and other animals.

An advisory panel to the Food and Drug Administration heard testimony

Wednesday that most of the gelatin produced in the United States is

made from pig skins, which are not considered a risk. Some comes from

cattle hide and bones.

" I think that we are talking about a very, very small risk -- but not

zero, " said panel chairman Dr. Brown of the National Institutes

of Health.

Nonetheless, the committee voted to recommend that the FDA take a

closer look at gelatin imported from countries where mad cow disease

is known to exist.

There is no proof that gelatin carries BSE

Currently, FDA regulations prohibit the use of brains and spinal

cords of cows from countries where mad cow disease or Bovine

Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE) has been found. Those organs are

considered highly infectious.

But gelatin is exempted from U.S. regulations, because there is no

evidence BSE can be transmitted to humans through the product.

BSE countries include Britain, France, Switzerland, Portugal, the

Republic of Ireland and the Netherlands. Britain effectively

prohibits the use of gelatin from its cows, but other countries such

as France export gelatin to the United States.

Fifteen cases of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease, or CJD, the fatal human

equivalent of BSE, have been reported in Britain. CJD is a fatal

brain disease that resembles mad cow disease and makes its victims

tremble. European health officials say there may be a link between

the two illnesses.

The committee said while there is no evidence that BSE can be

transmitted to humans from gelatin, the FDA should be allowed to

regulate it if necessary.

" We felt as a group that it was very likely that gelatin is a safe

product, and that it will prove to be a safe product when the

evidence is in, but we felt it was best to be prudent until that

evidence is presented to us, " Brown said.

The U.S. gelatin industry, which contends gelatin is safe, said it

was disappointed by the committee's vote, and cautioned any future

attempt by the FDA to restrict gelatin imports could be a problem.

" There simply is not enough gelatin made in the United States to

satisfy the domestic need, " said Mason of the Gelatin

Manufacturers Institute of America.

We are happy to answer any questions.

Thanks

Humphrey

Kirkman Laboratories

> > Austin will swallow pills and this is the easiest way for us to

get

> > supplements into him.

> >

> > Should he take a pill with the meal or before? If before, how

long

> before

> > the meal. I am new to the list and I haven't had a chance to go

> into the

> > archives -- so I apologize if this has been answered before.

> > Thank you,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for kirkman's important and informative informtion on

the gelatin concerns. I've been giving Kirkman's cod liver gel caps -

-and many other supplements in gel caps from various companies -- and

have already become concerned. Is Kirkman working on any substitute

for cod liver oil, or is the option merely liquid, which my son may

refuse to take if it tastes as bad as I remember?

Thanks again,

Deb

[Guest guest]

We recommend parents do not swallow the gelatin CLO capsules and use

them as a liquid (squeeze out the CLO). We also have liquid CLO. We

cannot use vegicaps with CLO since it is an oil base. All other

products from Kirkman are in vegicaps.

We have tried different flavors with CLO. We have not found any that

did not cause a reaction to the flavor in some children. Some parents

use xanthan gum to disguise the flavor but xanthan gum can swell and

that is always dangerous that it can cause choking. Other parents use

pepermint drops.

Thanks

Dave Humphrey

Kirkman Labs.

> Thanks so much for kirkman's important and informative informtion

on

> the gelatin concerns. I've been giving Kirkman's cod liver gel

caps -

> -and many other supplements in gel caps from various companies --

and

> have already become concerned. Is Kirkman working on any

substitute

> for cod liver oil, or is the option merely liquid, which my son may

> refuse to take if it tastes as bad as I remember?

> Thanks again,

> Deb

[Guest guest]

It is all a balance. On the balance it is probably better to take the

gel cap with the CLO than not take the CLO at all. It is can be taken

as a liquid this is the best.

Dave Humphrey

Kirkman

> Dave,

>

> I did not realize that it was recommended to NOT swallow the CLO gel

> capsules. My boys have been swallowing them whole for about 9

months or

> so. They take 2 each per day.

> What is the problem with swallowing them?

>

>

> Jody