Re: Raynaud's Syndrome and Piracetam

[Guest guest]

Dear Ken: Thanks for the info. on Priacetum. How do I contact Stania to

get Piracetum. As mentioned previously, I've had Raynaud's for 20+ years

and would like to take something that can both help with the Raynauds and

CFS at the same time. Also, what is the recommended dose? Is 8 g = 8

grams? Steve Bullock

Raynaud's Syndrome and Piracetam

>

> As an IMPORTANT FYI for anyone that has Raynaud's - from Medline

>

> : Arzneimittelforschung 1993 May;43(5):526-35 Related Articles,

Books, LinkOut

>

>

> Treatment of the Raynaud's phenomenon with piracetam.

>

> Moriau M, Lavenne-Pardonge E, Crasborn L, von Frenckell R, Col-Debeys C

>

> Department of Internal Medicine, University of Louvain, UCL, Brussels

Belgium.

>

> Piracetam (Nootropil, CAS 7491-74-9) has been investigated in the

treatment of primary and secondary Raynaud's phenomenon in three sequential

and complementary studies. The first study in 20 patients with primary

Raynaud's phenomenon, utilising clinical and ultrasound examination,

capillaroscopy and laboratory tests established a daily dose of 8 g as most

effective. The second study in 58 patients (47 primary, 11 secondary)

confirmed the therapeutic efficacy of piracetam in both primary and

secondary Raynaud's phenomenon. The third study, of crossover design, in 30

patients with severe Raynaud's syndrome, examined various agents given

singly or in combination. The results not only confirmed the efficacy of

piracetam but in addition allowed comparison of the efficacy of the

principal therapeutic agents or regimens used in the treatment of Raynaud's

syndrome and the formulation of a list of these therapies in decreasing

order of efficacy, thus: piracetam 4 g/d + buflomedil 600 mg/d; piracetam 8

g/d; buflomedil 600 mg/d; piracetam 4 g/d + acetylsalicylic acid 100 mg/d;

pentoxifylline 1200 mg/d; calcium antagonists; ketanserin 120 mg/d. The

particular efficacy of 8 g piracetam daily in 3 divided doses at 8-hourly

intervals can be attributed to its unique dual mode of action; inhibition of

platelet function by inhibition of thromboxane A2 synthetase or antagonism

of thromboxane A2 and increased formation of prostaglandin I2, together with

a rheological effect involving reduction in blood and plasma viscosity

through an increase in cell membrane deformability and a reduction of 30-40%

in the plasma concentrations of fibrinogen and von Willebrand's factor. In

addition, the administration of piracetam appears to be devoided of adverse

effects.

>

> Cheapest source is Stania on this list (no financial interest ... just one

of her first customers)

>

> M Lassesen, M.S.

> ex " Dr.Gui (MSDN) " , " Dr. VB "

> cv: http://www.folkarts.com/kenl/ KenL@...

> Phone: 360 297.4717 Cell: 360 509.8970 Fax 520 832.6836

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info. I'm going to order some Piracetum ASAP. Steve B.

Re: Raynaud's Syndrome and Piracetam

>

> Stanislava Muzíková

> <stanislava.muzikova@...>

> She is in the Czech Republic and get it

> over the counter. She ships by

> registered mail so delivery is always

> fast.

> She has CFIDS and makes a little profit

> on each shipment...

>

> 8g is 8 grams.... the tablets are 800 mg

> so we are talking about 10 tablets a day

> in three dosages (4,4,2 ) -

> There's a 100 in each box (around

> $25.00/box - including shipping! or 32

> cents a gram): cheaper than:

> Piracetam (Nootropil®)1200 mg 40 tabs

> $20 & you pay shipping as an extra!(or

> 42 cents a gram) from

> http://www.smart-drugs.com/

> [if you are hard pressed financially,

> she'll discount the price since she is

> in the same financial situation]

>

> I would recommend to avoid scheduling it

> immediately prior to bedtime (and ram up

> slowly) - it can act like a stimulant

> for some.

> One side effects for females can be a

> very strong improvement of libido...

> after years of CFIDS, this can be a

> major (and pleasant)

> shock for husbands....

>

> As always, make sure you inform your MD

> that you are taking it and why... there

> are links to drug fact sheets at

>

> http://www.folkarts.com/idef/piracetam.h

> tm

>

> M Lassesen, M.S.

> ex " Dr.Gui (MSDN) " , " Dr. VB "

> cv: http://www.folkarts.com/kenl/

> KenL@...

> Phone: 360 297.4717 Cell: 360 509.8970

> Fax 520 832.6836

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: R. Bullock

> Dear Ken: Thanks for the info. on

> Priacetum. How do I contact Stania to

> get Piracetum. As mentioned previously,

> I've had Raynaud's for 20+ years

> and would like to take something that

> can both help with the Raynauds and

> CFS at the same time. Also, what is the

> recommended dose? Is 8 g = 8

> grams? Steve Bullock

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

Stanislava Muzíková

<stanislava.muzikova@...>

She is in the Czech Republic and get it

over the counter. She ships by

registered mail so delivery is always

fast.

She has CFIDS and makes a little profit

on each shipment...

8g is 8 grams.... the tablets are 800 mg

so we are talking about 10 tablets a day

in three dosages (4,4,2 ) -

There's a 100 in each box (around

$25.00/box - including shipping! or 32

cents a gram): cheaper than:

Piracetam (Nootropil®)1200 mg 40 tabs

$20 & you pay shipping as an extra!(or

42 cents a gram) from

http://www.smart-drugs.com/

[if you are hard pressed financially,

she'll discount the price since she is

in the same financial situation]

I would recommend to avoid scheduling it

immediately prior to bedtime (and ram up

slowly) - it can act like a stimulant

for some.

One side effects for females can be a

very strong improvement of libido...

after years of CFIDS, this can be a

major (and pleasant)

shock for husbands....

As always, make sure you inform your MD

that you are taking it and why... there

are links to drug fact sheets at

http://www.folkarts.com/idef/piracetam.h

tm

M Lassesen, M.S.

ex " Dr.Gui (MSDN) " , " Dr. VB "

cv: http://www.folkarts.com/kenl/

KenL@...

Phone: 360 297.4717 Cell: 360 509.8970

Fax 520 832.6836

----- Original Message -----

From: R. Bullock

Dear Ken: Thanks for the info. on

Priacetum. How do I contact Stania to

get Piracetum. As mentioned previously,

I've had Raynaud's for 20+ years

and would like to take something that

can both help with the Raynauds and

CFS at the same time. Also, what is the

recommended dose? Is 8 g = 8

grams? Steve Bullock

[Guest guest]

on 9/02/00 8:01 PM, Ken Lassesen at KenL@... wrote:

>

> As an IMPORTANT FYI for anyone that has Raynaud's - from Medline

>

> : Arzneimittelforschung 1993 May;43(5):526-35 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut

>

>

> Treatment of the Raynaud's phenomenon with piracetam.

>

> Moriau M, Lavenne-Pardonge E, Crasborn L, von Frenckell R, Col-Debeys C

>

> Department of Internal Medicine, University of Louvain, UCL, Brussels Belgium.

>

> The particular efficacy of 8 g piracetam daily in 3 divided doses at 8-hourly

intervals can be attributed to its unique dual mode

> of action; inhibition of platelet function by inhibition of thromboxane A2

> synthetase or antagonism of thromboxane A2 and increased formation of

> prostaglandin I2, together with a rheological effect involving reduction in

> blood and plasma viscosity through an increase in cell membrane deformability

> and a reduction of 30-40% in the plasma concentrations of fibrinogen and von

> Willebrand's factor. In addition, the administration of piracetam appears to

> be devoided of adverse effects.

Ken,

WOW!!! THAT'S IMPORTANT!!

BTW, there is a substance very close in structure and effect to piracetam,

sold in North America as a nutritional supplement. It's called

Pyroglutamate or pyroglutamic acid. I've read numerous books on 'Smart

Nutrients' in which they classify piracetam and pyroglutamate as having an

essentially identical pharmacological effect, yet differing in their

respective potency, kinetics, bioavailability.

Pyroglutamate is cheap, too (if you can find it). One very interesting

finding: according to the Merck Index (of chemicals), pyroglutamate is made

by autoclaving glutamine or glutamic acid at a certain temperature!! I

don't know how this works, though.

Hud

[Guest guest]

pyroglutamic acid ..is also known as Oxoproline and is definitely related... and

I understand that they interact with each other -- re-enforcing the positive

benefits...

l-Pyroglutamic Acid is available at webvitamins at $12.55 for 60 @1000 mg

Capsules...

any better sources?

M Lassesen, M.S.

ex " Dr.Gui (MSDN) " , " Dr. VB "

cv: http://www.folkarts.com/kenl/ KenL@...

Phone: 360 297.4717 Cell: 360 509.8970 Fax 520 832.6836

----- Original Message -----

From: Hud Ramelan

egroups

Ken,

WOW!!! THAT'S IMPORTANT!!

BTW, there is a substance very close in structure and effect to piracetam,

sold in North America as a nutritional supplement. It's called

Pyroglutamate or pyroglutamic acid. I've read numerous books on 'Smart

Nutrients' in which they classify piracetam and pyroglutamate as having an

essentially identical pharmacological effect, yet differing in their

respective potency, kinetics, bioavailability.

Pyroglutamate is cheap, too (if you can find it). One very interesting

finding: according to the Merck Index (of chemicals), pyroglutamate is made

by autoclaving glutamine or glutamic acid at a certain temperature!! I

don't know how this works, though.

Hud

[Guest guest]

on 9/03/00 1:07 AM, Ken Lassesen at KenL@... wrote:

> l-Pyroglutamic Acid is available at webvitamins at $12.55 for 60 @1000 mg

> Capsules...

> any better sources?

Ken,

So far, best I've found is from http://www.amerhealth.com

Source Naturals l-pyroglutamic acid, 120 tabs@1000mg/ $19.19 (40% off)

Looks like a good deal!

HUd

[Guest guest]

Hud Ramelan wrote:

> BTW, there is a substance very close in structure and effect to

> piracetam,

> sold in North America as a nutritional supplement. It's called

> Pyroglutamate or pyroglutamic acid. I've read numerous books on

> 'Smart

> Nutrients' in which they classify piracetam and pyroglutamate as

> having an

> essentially identical pharmacological effect, yet differing in their

> respective potency, kinetics, bioavailability.

>

Any idea on how much l-pyroglutamic acid to take in order to mimic the

piracetam protocol, Ken or Hud?

--

el - andrea@...

(IFF " FNORD " appears - remove it from my email address to reply)

" ...wake now! Discover that you are the song that the morning brings... "

[Guest guest]

My guest is that the same dosage would be a starting point.

CAVAET (Warning): The effectiveness is unknow for this use. On medline I

searched for:

Pyroglutamic and stroke / Oxoproline and stroke: NO HITS (Many for Piracetam

and stroke)

Oxoproline and Raynaud / Pyroglutamic and Raynaud: NO HITS

THUS the conservative approach would be to use Piracetam... but if getting it OR

cost is a factor than Pyroglutamic acid is likely worth the >>experiment<<

See http://www.folkarts.com/idef/smart_drugs.htm for what we know about these

" cousins " [anyone, feel free to email me with other known factors (with URLS)

.... is is one of many pages " in progress " )

There was 2 HITS for " Pyroglutamic and coagulation " - none really usefull. None

for " Oxoproline and coagulation "

For myself, I'm doing 6.4 g of piracetam per day AND 800 mg of each of its

cousins --> the purpose is to see if they will lower my SFM factor. It is an

educated

" shot in the dark " -- low / no risk 'supplements' that appear to have some

demonstrated anti-coagulant effects, but still under-studied.

M Lassesen, M.S.

ex " Dr.Gui (MSDN) " , " Dr. VB "

cv: http://www.folkarts.com/kenl/ KenL@...

Phone: 360 297.4717 Cell: 360 509.8970 Fax 520 832.6836

----- Original Message -----

From: el

Any idea on how much l-pyroglutamic acid to take in order to mimic the

piracetam protocol, Ken or Hud?

[Guest guest]

on 9/03/00 10:11 PM, Ken Lassesen at KenL@... wrote:

>

> CAVAET (Warning): The effectiveness is unknow for this use. On medline I

> searched for: Pyroglutamic and stroke / Oxoproline and stroke: NO HITS (Many

> for Piracetam and stroke) Oxoproline and Raynaud / Pyroglutamic and

> Raynaud: NO HITS

>

> THUS the conservative approach would be to use Piracetam... but if getting it

> OR cost is a factor than Pyroglutamic acid is likely worth the >>experiment<<

Ken,

Okay, that WOULD be the conservative approach!

But the obvious reason one doesn't find any Medline hits for l-pyroglutamic

acid is because it's a naturally occurring amino acid, which is not

patentable. So who's gonna fund research on something that isn't gonna pay?

Right?

Given that the pharmacological effects of the 2 are known to be almost

identical, I think it's safe to assume that what one can do, the other

probably can too. The big question is how the dosages compare between the

two.

But that's just my educated intuition, so to speak. It's bound to be

subject to flaws...

Hud

[Guest guest]

At 07:12 AM 9/3/2000 +0000, egroups wrote:

> From: Hud Ramelan <hudr@...>

>

>WOW!!! THAT'S IMPORTANT!!

>

>BTW, there is a substance very close in structure and effect to piracetam,

>sold in North America as a nutritional supplement.

>It's called Pyroglutamate or pyroglutamic acid. I've read numerous books

>on 'Smart Nutrients' in which they classify piracetam and pyroglutamate as

>having an essentially identical pharmacological

>effect, yet differing in their respective potency, kinetics, bioavailability.

>

>Pyroglutamate is cheap, too (if you can find it). One very interesting

>finding: according to the Merck Index (of chemicals), pyroglutamate is

>made by autoclaving glutamine or glutamic acid at a certain

>temperature!! I don't know how this works, though.

Hi Hud,

You can find pyroglutamic acid at:

http://www.beyond-a-century.com/

LPYROGLUTAMIC ACID A remarkable aid in cholinergic function in the brain,

similar chemically to European " smart drug " , Piracetam. 100 grams, $10.75.

Code 027.1

So they say, that it is similar to piracetam????

Greetings from Amsterdam,

Jan van Roijen