Re: Re: Heart burn after surgery: is it common?

[Guest guest]

Hi -

My son also had the wrap. I was told that the wrap would help with the reflux

but not eliminate it completely. He takes omeprazole on an as needed basis. Hope

that helps

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 27, 2011, at 7:14 PM, " robert1242003 " <robert1242003@...> wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> Yes fundoplication is performed but I still ended up having heart burns. I am

given anti-acid pills by surgeon to take for 3 weeks, so may he is expecting

that to happen. Hope I get better by time.

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > I had my HM surgery with wrap done 4 days ago. For the 1st 24 hrs after

the surgery, I was on IV and didn't experience any heart burn. But since then, I

started eating mushy foods but I am experiencing quite a bit of heart burn. The

heart burn starts if I even cough or sneeze.

> > >

> > > According to my family doctor, I may have some wounds from the surgery in

my stomach or esophagus and thus when stomach acid gets into contact with these

wounds, I am getting heart burn. According to him, the heart burn should go away

after few weeks once the wounds are fully healed.

> > >

> > > For folks who have gone through the similar surgery, have you experienced

the same heart burn after the surgery? If yes then for how long you used to have

them before you get fully recovered?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>

> My doctor now advised me to take two pills of anti-acid every day

> instead of one and also suggested Sulcrate. Let us see if it makes it

> any better.

>

Have you tried to determine if in fact it really is heartburn from acid

and not an esophageal spasm? They can feel the same. Some people go for

years thinking they have acid reflux when it is actually spasms or other

esophageal NCCPs (Non-Cardiac Chest Pain). Spasms are not uncommon for a

while after surgery and other treatments, but often doctors don't seem

to know about the problem.

To do your own test you need some antacid. The chalky stuff you can buy

anywhere should work.

Understand that the 24hr drug you are taking is not an antacid. It is

most likely a PPI (Proton Pump Inhibitor). Sometimes people, doctors are

people too, call them antacids but they are different. A PPI works by

reducing (rarely completely stopping) the acid production at the proton

pumps in your stomach. Antacids work by reacting with the acid that has

already been produce to neutralize it, but do nothing to reduce

production of acid. The Sulcrate coats the lining of your stomach to

reduce the contact with the acid, it also does nothing to reduce

production of, or neutralize, acid.

If you have heartburn from acid then you are still producing to much

acid but enough antacid should quickly neutralize the acid. Antacids

work quick and then quickly quit working. So if you take some antacid

and the heartburn quickly goes away but may come back later it was

likely acid that caused the heartburn. If the antacid does not work then

you have to suspect something like a spasm. For some people eating or

drinking anything can cause a spasm to go away. In that case the antacid

may make a spasm go away too. For many people though spasm can be hard

to get rid of and antacid won't work. The point is that the test isn't

perfect but often works.

The real test would have to be done by your doctor. It is a 24hr pH

test. Not a lot of fun.

Already you have a 24hr drug, which you have now doubled and a

fundoplication, plus sulcrate. So even without any test, if all that

doesn't stop the " heartburn " you should be thinking this could be

something else. The good news is that spasms that start after, or

increase after, surgery usually become less over time until they are

less than before surgery. Over a longer time NCCPs of one kind or

another, including spasms could start up or increase as thing change.

notan

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

 

My wife who suffers from GERD was recommended Gaviscon. Reading about it we

could not wait to use it. Sounded like the greatest thing going! Helped once.

 

This has nothing to do with you directly. You should try it and see how it

works. If it seems to help, I would suggest an experiment.

 

After using it a couple of times, hopefully successfully, when the feeling comes

on, try drinking a full glass of water, or whichever drink you like the best.

Give it a couple of minutes, and see if the feeling (heartburn or spasms)

stop.  If they do, on a consistent basis, you don't need the Gaviscon. If it

doesn't help, you've got the Gaviscon as backup.

 

Good luck.

 

From: robert1242003 <robert1242003@...>

Subject: Re: Heart burn after surgery: is it common?

achalasia

Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 10:28 PM

 

Thanks Priti. I am glad to hear that your son is not suffering from

heartburn/spasm that much these days. I hope that my heartburn/spasm goes away

with time as well. I am going to buy Gaviscon and see if it helps when next

episode of heartburn/spasms kicks in.

>

> Hi ,

>

> My 16 year old son had frequent heartburn/spasm right after his HM surgery and

I was quite worried.  His surgeon Dr. Dempsey told us that it should subside

over time.  If I remember correctly after 6 weeks it got less frequent and

now it is too rare.  His doctor asked him to 1st take 20 mg of omeprazole

twice a day (morning and 1hour before dinner), after heartburn became less

frequent he took only 20 mg a day.  It has been 5 months now.  I spoke to

him and he said that he could now try pepcid 40 mg and he strongly recommends

that my son for his rest of life take atleast 20 mg daily as it can reduce other

problems.  You may already know but drinking water helps get some relief

during heartburns.

>

> I wish you the best, I hope you get through this rough period and hoping after

6 weeks you feel much better like most people and after 3 months most feel

normal.

>

> Does anyone here know of any side effects to these acid reducer medicines?

>

> Priti

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: robert1242003 <robert1242003@...>

> achalasia

> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 4:16 AM

> Subject: Heart burn after surgery: is it common?

>

>

>  

> I had my HM surgery with wrap done 4 days ago. For the 1st 24 hrs after the

surgery, I was on IV and didn't experience any heart burn. But since then, I

started eating mushy foods but I am experiencing quite a bit of heart burn. The

heart burn starts if I even cough or sneeze.

>

> According to my family doctor, I may have some wounds from the surgery in my

stomach or esophagus and thus when stomach acid gets into contact with these

wounds, I am getting heart burn. According to him, the heart burn should go away

after few weeks once the wounds are fully healed.

>

> For folks who have gone through the similar surgery, have you experienced the

same heart burn after the surgery? If yes then for how long you used to have

them before you get fully recovered?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have found that licorice root or DGL works the best for acid or just upset

stomach.

________________________________

From: pletchsr <pletchsr@...>

achalasia

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 9:42 AM

Subject: Re: Heart burn after surgery: is it common?

 

Hi Priti and ,

You might consider trying peppermint tea. That's better than any antacid or PPI

I ever took, and a lot less expensive. I make a cup and leave it on my bedstand

at night if I feel like I might have problems later. If I feel an NCCP coming

on, I heat a mug of water in the microwave for 1 minute and then dip the tea

leaves in while eating Altoids. The Altoids hold it off long enough to heat the

tea, and then the tea calms everything down. This is for spasms and heartburn.

Helped before and after surgery. If it's bad, I'll also take an Aleve, which

relaxes muscles. I think every achalasia patient should have mint tea every meal

starting the day after surgery to keep the nerves calmed down and to calm the

stomach. I think someone told me that mint makes smooth muscle relax. I don't

know if that's true but it helped me. The doctors don't know what to do with

this pain, I think there is a misunderstanding because as someone pointed out in

a previous post it is

a nerve issue, not so much muscle spasm or heartburn (unless you have the

diffuse esophageal spasm type of achalasia). The NCCP pain may be caused by

heartburn, but the actual pain itself, the " kneeling over and laying in a fetus

position while begging God to Stop " type of pain, is nerve pain, IMHO. As

always, what works for one person may not work for another. Please let me know

if you try this and if it works. I had aweful pain after surgery and no amount

of pain killer or antacids would help. Finally after 4 days we thought to go to

the Starbucks and get a little mint tea, after that I was fine, or at least

functional. They should just put mints on the bedspreads and put mint tea in all

the meals of hospital patients. I'm not kidding - they gave me Orange Pekot tea

in the hospital, which was acidic, and causes heartburn!

pletchsr@...

>

> Hi ,

>

> My 16 year old son had frequent heartburn/spasm right after his HM surgery and

I was quite worried.  His surgeon Dr. Dempsey told us that it should subside

over time.  If I remember correctly after 6 weeks it got less frequent and

now it is too rare.  His doctor asked him to 1st take 20 mg of omeprazole

twice a day (morning and 1hour before dinner), after heartburn became less

frequent he took only 20 mg a day.  It has been 5 months now.  I spoke to

him and he said that he could now try pepcid 40 mg and he strongly recommends

that my son for his rest of life take atleast 20 mg daily as it can reduce other

problems.  You may already know but drinking water helps get some relief

during heartburns.

>

> I wish you the best, I hope you get through this rough period and hoping after

6 weeks you feel much better like most people and after 3 months most feel

normal.

>

> Does anyone here know of any side effects to these acid reducer medicines?

>

> Priti

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: robert1242003 <robert1242003@...>

> achalasia

> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 4:16 AM

> Subject: Heart burn after surgery: is it common?

>

>

>  

> I had my HM surgery with wrap done 4 days ago. For the 1st 24 hrs after the

surgery, I was on IV and didn't experience any heart burn. But since then, I

started eating mushy foods but I am experiencing quite a bit of heart burn. The

heart burn starts if I even cough or sneeze.

>

> According to my family doctor, I may have some wounds from the surgery in my

stomach or esophagus and thus when stomach acid gets into contact with these

wounds, I am getting heart burn. According to him, the heart burn should go away

after few weeks once the wounds are fully healed.

>

> For folks who have gone through the similar surgery, have you experienced the

same heart burn after the surgery? If yes then for how long you used to have

them before you get fully recovered?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kim wrote:

>

> Notan, you are so right. i had spasms 14 years ago. i would be out for

> my early early morning run/walk and i would have the most awful pain.

>

There are some people that have esophageal spasms triggered by exercise.

I started a message about that before I ended up in the hospital. I

forgot all about that. Guess I should look that up.

notan

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>

> I tried water before but it makes it worse for some reason. The other

> day, when I drank full glass of water it ended up causing the

> heartburn right away. So water is no go.

>

One of the possible triggers for spasms or NCCPs is esophageal

distention. If the drink causes esophagus to distend more it may not be

much help.

notan

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> I think someone told me that mint makes smooth muscle relax. I don't

> know if that's true but it helped me.

According to research it may be true by working like a calcium channel

blocker:

Pharmacology and preclinical pharmacokinetics of peppermint oil.

Phytomedicine. 2005 Aug

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16121523

The mechanism of action of peppermint oil on gastrointestinal smooth

muscle.

Gastroenterology. 1991 Jul

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1646142

" It is concluded that peppermint oil relaxes gastrointestinal smooth

muscle by reducing calcium influx. "

> ... I think there is a misunderstanding because as someone pointed out

> in a previous post it is a nerve issue, not so much muscle spasm or

> heartburn (unless you have the diffuse esophageal spasm type of

> achalasia). The NCCP pain may be caused by heartburn, but the actual

> pain itself, the " kneeling over and laying in a fetus position while

> begging God to Stop " type of pain, is nerve pain, IMHO.

Confused nerves can cause more than one kind of effect. The muscle

spasms that some have and the NCCPs without spasms can both be caused by

nerve damage. The pain from either can mimic a heart-attack. You could

also have both. You could have both and a heart-attack. How would you know?

> As always, what works for one person may not work for another. Please

> let me know if you try this and if it works.

I like to hear what works too. Mint and clove both also work as local

anesthetics. If you put a little clove in your mouth you can quickly

feel the numbing effect. I have suggested that clove may numb the inside

of the esophagus so that if something like acid, or other irritants, was

triggering spasms by irritating the nerves the clove might calm that

down and stop the spasm. I don't know if anyone ever tried it.

> ... I'm not kidding - they gave me Orange Pekot tea in the hospital,

> which was acidic, and causes heartburn!

Tea is interesting and there is probably more going here than you think.

Some people seem to have a problem with caffeine in teas and other

drinks causing heartburn. Others have a problem with the acid in some

drinks like tea. Tea often has something else that may be more sinister

than either the caffeine or acid, the tannin. Tannin is an astringent,

which mean it effects the tissues it comes in contact with. In this case

it is going to irritate the esophagus and stomach. Some people that gave

up tea because of the acid or caffeine sometimes discover they can drink

other drinks with just as much acid or caffeine and not have a problem.

The problem for them may have been the tannin. Tannin can be in other

drinks too, coffee and red wine. The good news here is than in most

cases there are alternatives. White tea is low in tannin, green has less

than black. Don't steep tea over 2 min.. Most of what you want from tea

is steeped out quickly. So, unless you like that tannin flavor brew

under 2min.. Also bigger chunks of tea leaves, not the powder in tea

bags, produces less tannin. The more the leaf is chopped up the easier

it is for the tannin to get into the drink. I assume that how fine

coffee is ground could also have an effect. There are ways to brew

coffee to get less tannin too. White wine will have less tannin than red

wine. Chocolate also has tannin but because it is made at a low

temperature the tannin may be in a longer polymer form that is not as

irritating. Higher temps seem to break the polymer into shorter chains.

Tannin is an antioxidant that like other antioxidants seems go with the

chemicals that make up the colors in plants. Less color may mean less

tannin. People will tell you that because it is an antioxidant it is

good stuff. Well this irritant is one antioxidant we can probably do

without.

Mint tea and heartburn is also interesting. You are not alone in taking

it or suggesting it can be used for heartburn. But if the heartburn is

caused by acid reflux then even if the mint does help at first, and it

may well help at first, it also relaxes the LES some which can make

things worse. The LES being smooth muscle and the mint relaxing smooth

muscle. Some of us may have high enough LES pressures so that it isn't a

problem if the pressure is reduce a little. In fact for some lower LES

pressure may be another benefit. But, for some that already have an acid

reflux problem mint is only going to make it worse by relaxing the LES.

So for some the mint may at first help only to cause it to come back

even worse. Another of those things where we are all different and just

have to try it to see.

notan

[Guest guest]

notan wrote:

>

>

> There are some people that have esophageal spasms triggered by exercise.

> I started a message about that before I ended up in the hospital. I

> forgot all about that. Guess I should look that up.

>

Found it:

Exercise-provoked esophageal motility disorder in patients with

recurrent chest pain

World J Gastroenterol. 2010 September

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2941066

" In patients with chest pain non-responsive to PPIs, a diagnosis of

exercise-provoked esophageal spasm may have the effect of lowering the

risk of the next hospitalization. "

And related is:

Effect of physical exercise on esophageal motility in patients with

esophageal disease.

Dis Esophagus. 2005

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16336607

" Nutcracker and diffuse spasm patients demonstrated a significant fall

in esophageal wave amplitude during exercise compared to controls, which

returned rapidly to pre exercise values after resting. There was no

evidence of acid reflux in the non-reflux groups during exercise. "

And:

Exertional esophageal pH-metry and manometry in recurrent chest pain

World J Gastroenterol. 2010 September

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2937111

Non of these studies included achalasia patients but esophageal motility

problems seem to have overlap. I know strong prolonged exertion made it

very hard for me to drink more than a small sip. I used to hike the

mountains around here. Being that it can get hot fast here not being

able to drink was something I had to plan for. No problem though after

the myotomy.

notan

[Guest guest]

Anything is worth a try. The worse that can happen is it won't work. But I am

buying some!

 

Thanks for the tip.

 

Kim A

________________________________

From: pletchsr <pletchsr@...>

achalasia

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 10:42 AM

Subject: Re: Heart burn after surgery: is it common?

 

Hi Priti and ,

You might consider trying peppermint tea. That's better than any antacid or PPI

I ever took, and a lot less expensive. I make a cup and leave it on my bedstand

at night if I feel like I might have problems later. If I feel an NCCP coming

on, I heat a mug of water in the microwave for 1 minute and then dip the tea

leaves in while eating Altoids. The Altoids hold it off long enough to heat the

tea, and then the tea calms everything down. This is for spasms and heartburn.

Helped before and after surgery. If it's bad, I'll also take an Aleve, which

relaxes muscles. I think every achalasia patient should have mint tea every meal

starting the day after surgery to keep the nerves calmed down and to calm the

stomach. I think someone told me that mint makes smooth muscle relax. I don't

know if that's true but it helped me. The doctors don't know what to do with

this pain, I think there is a misunderstanding because as someone pointed out in

a previous post it is

a nerve issue, not so much muscle spasm or heartburn (unless you have the

diffuse esophageal spasm type of achalasia). The NCCP pain may be caused by

heartburn, but the actual pain itself, the " kneeling over and laying in a fetus

position while begging God to Stop " type of pain, is nerve pain, IMHO. As

always, what works for one person may not work for another. Please let me know

if you try this and if it works. I had aweful pain after surgery and no amount

of pain killer or antacids would help. Finally after 4 days we thought to go to

the Starbucks and get a little mint tea, after that I was fine, or at least

functional. They should just put mints on the bedspreads and put mint tea in all

the meals of hospital patients. I'm not kidding - they gave me Orange Pekot tea

in the hospital, which was acidic, and causes heartburn!

pletchsr@...

>

> Hi ,

>

> My 16 year old son had frequent heartburn/spasm right after his HM surgery and

I was quite worried.  His surgeon Dr. Dempsey told us that it should subside

over time.  If I remember correctly after 6 weeks it got less frequent and

now it is too rare.  His doctor asked him to 1st take 20 mg of omeprazole

twice a day (morning and 1hour before dinner), after heartburn became less

frequent he took only 20 mg a day.  It has been 5 months now.  I spoke to

him and he said that he could now try pepcid 40 mg and he strongly recommends

that my son for his rest of life take atleast 20 mg daily as it can reduce other

problems.  You may already know but drinking water helps get some relief

during heartburns.

>

> I wish you the best, I hope you get through this rough period and hoping after

6 weeks you feel much better like most people and after 3 months most feel

normal.

>

> Does anyone here know of any side effects to these acid reducer medicines?

>

> Priti

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: robert1242003 <robert1242003@...>

> achalasia

> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 4:16 AM

> Subject: Heart burn after surgery: is it common?

>

>

>  

> I had my HM surgery with wrap done 4 days ago. For the 1st 24 hrs after the

surgery, I was on IV and didn't experience any heart burn. But since then, I

started eating mushy foods but I am experiencing quite a bit of heart burn. The

heart burn starts if I even cough or sneeze.

>

> According to my family doctor, I may have some wounds from the surgery in my

stomach or esophagus and thus when stomach acid gets into contact with these

wounds, I am getting heart burn. According to him, the heart burn should go away

after few weeks once the wounds are fully healed.

>

> For folks who have gone through the similar surgery, have you experienced the

same heart burn after the surgery? If yes then for how long you used to have

them before you get fully recovered?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>