Guest guest Posted June 13, 2000 Report Share Posted June 13, 2000 If I understand my reading right my immune system might be dominant on the TH1 side, not the Th2 side, like most CFSer's. Whenever I would hear Th1 and Th2 describe on this list I would always wonder what I was more dominant in. I did some research and just figured I was th2 dominant because that is what most cfser's are....even though I don't match a th2 type(I don't have allergies,no nose never runs). So I just did a quick search on lyme disease because I also have this( I tested positive on Igenex LUAT) and it said Lyme Patients are th1 dominant. This is strange. No wonder Immunopro isn't making me feel better it boosting my immune towards the wrong end. karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2000 Report Share Posted June 13, 2000 In a message dated 6/13/00 7:21:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, luke@... writes: << The Chisolm TF would probably help a lot if you could tolerate it. I was in the study as well, and it does start off by making you feel worse. It sounds like you could use some help from a real immunologist due to the autoimmune component, but if that's not an option for whatever reason, you might try http://www.moducare.com/ They claim to have a very good immune modulator and some pretty good studies to back them up. Also, there are NO side effects. If I were in your shoes I'd try that for a while, then see if I could tolerate the Chisolm TF again. I wish we had somebody on this board better acquainted with autoimmune conditions, you might be better off with abx. Luke >> Thanks Luke. I think the chisolm tf pushes you more towards TH1 though so I don't think that would be for me either. Gosh, am I ever frustrated trying to figure this out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2000 Report Share Posted June 13, 2000 > If I understand my reading right my immune system might be dominant on the > TH1 side, not the Th2 side, like most CFSer's. Whenever I would hear Th1 and > Th2 describe on this list I would always wonder what I was more dominant in. > I did some research and just figured I was th2 dominant because that is what > most cfser's are....even though I don't match a th2 type(I don't have > allergies,no nose never runs). So I just did a quick search on lyme disease > because I also have this( I tested positive on Igenex LUAT) and it said Lyme > Patients are th1 dominant. This is strange. No wonder Immunopro isn't > making me feel better it boosting my immune towards the wrong end. karen , Although the research was done on animals, not people, it appears as if the glutathione in IP is an immune modulator, not an immune stimulant in the sense that you are talking about. When CD4 cells are deficient in glutathione, they shift toward Th2 dominance and this is a typical pattern in CFIDS. But supplementing with IP probably doesn't increase TH1 dominance, just lessens Th2 dominance. That's not to say that you will do well on it, just that it's not that simple. Th1 dominance is no bowl of cherries either, Alpha Interferon is a Th1 cytokine and it is neurotoxic, as Hud and Laurion have been pointing out. The Chisolm TF would probably help a lot if you could tolerate it. I was in the study as well, and it does start off by making you feel worse. It sounds like you could use some help from a real immunologist due to the autoimmune component, but if that's not an option for whatever reason, you might try http://www.moducare.com/ They claim to have a very good immune modulator and some pretty good studies to back them up. Also, there are NO side effects. If I were in your shoes I'd try that for a while, then see if I could tolerate the Chisolm TF again. I wish we had somebody on this board better acquainted with autoimmune conditions, you might be better off with abx. Luke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2000 Report Share Posted June 14, 2000 > Thanks Luke. I think the chisolm tf pushes you more towards TH1 though so I > don't think that would be for me either. Gosh, am I ever frustrated trying > to figure this out! , Although the Th1/Th2 distinction in the immune system can be helpful general information for us, it is not specific enough to model your protocol on. Like Patty says, if you are Th1 dominant, that is probably a good thing. In your case, taking the right TF would have the effect of directing your already activated immune system to the pathogens that are causing the activation in the first place. This would eventually result in a lessening of symptoms, but probably would be no fun for a while. If you can afford it, you would benefit from some immune function tests so you can find out specifically what is happening in your body. It is the autoimmune component that is the wild card. If you have a lot of available brain power, you can get a general idea of the processes involved by reading " How the Immune System Works " by Sompayrac, but it is not light reading and will not provide you with a specific recipe for your next step. Balancing our immune system is our ultimate goal, and for a lot of us, IP and TF are useful, but as we all know, the individual variations in our conditon make this a complicated picture. Too complicated to be able to say " I just need to lower Th1 cytokines to see some improvement " . I hope you can find or afford a doc who can give you some useful guidance on the subject. Luke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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