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Wait a minute!!-Lyme, CFS, Lupus

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If I understand my reading right my immune system might be dominant on the

TH1 side, not the Th2 side, like most CFSer's. Whenever I would hear Th1 and

Th2 describe on this list I would always wonder what I was more dominant in.

I did some research and just figured I was th2 dominant because that is what

most cfser's are....even though I don't match a th2 type(I don't have

allergies,no nose never runs). So I just did a quick search on lyme disease

because I also have this( I tested positive on Igenex LUAT) and it said Lyme

Patients are th1 dominant. This is strange. No wonder Immunopro isn't

making me feel better it boosting my immune towards the wrong end. karen

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In a message dated 6/13/00 7:21:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, luke@...

writes:

<< The Chisolm TF would probably help a lot if you could tolerate it. I

was in the study as well, and it does start off by making you feel

worse.

It sounds like you could use some help from a real immunologist due

to the autoimmune component, but if that's not an option for whatever

reason, you might try http://www.moducare.com/ They claim to have a

very good immune modulator and some pretty good studies to back them

up. Also, there are NO side effects. If I were in your shoes I'd

try that for a while, then see if I could tolerate the Chisolm TF

again. I wish we had somebody on this board better acquainted with

autoimmune conditions, you might be better off with abx.

Luke

>>

Thanks Luke. I think the chisolm tf pushes you more towards TH1 though so I

don't think that would be for me either. Gosh, am I ever frustrated trying

to figure this out!

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> If I understand my reading right my immune system might be dominant

on the

> TH1 side, not the Th2 side, like most CFSer's. Whenever I would

hear Th1 and

> Th2 describe on this list I would always wonder what I was more

dominant in.

> I did some research and just figured I was th2 dominant because

that is what

> most cfser's are....even though I don't match a th2 type(I don't

have

> allergies,no nose never runs). So I just did a quick search on

lyme disease

> because I also have this( I tested positive on Igenex LUAT) and it

said Lyme

> Patients are th1 dominant. This is strange. No wonder Immunopro

isn't

> making me feel better it boosting my immune towards the wrong end.

karen

,

Although the research was done on animals, not people, it appears as

if the glutathione in IP is an immune modulator, not an immune

stimulant in the sense that you are talking about. When CD4 cells

are deficient in glutathione, they shift toward Th2 dominance and

this is a typical pattern in CFIDS. But supplementing with IP

probably doesn't increase TH1 dominance, just lessens Th2 dominance.

That's not to say that you will do well on it, just that it's not

that simple. Th1 dominance is no bowl of cherries either, Alpha

Interferon is a Th1 cytokine and it is neurotoxic, as Hud and Laurion

have been pointing out.

The Chisolm TF would probably help a lot if you could tolerate it. I

was in the study as well, and it does start off by making you feel

worse.

It sounds like you could use some help from a real immunologist due

to the autoimmune component, but if that's not an option for whatever

reason, you might try http://www.moducare.com/ They claim to have a

very good immune modulator and some pretty good studies to back them

up. Also, there are NO side effects. If I were in your shoes I'd

try that for a while, then see if I could tolerate the Chisolm TF

again. I wish we had somebody on this board better acquainted with

autoimmune conditions, you might be better off with abx.

Luke

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> Thanks Luke. I think the chisolm tf pushes you more towards TH1

though so I

> don't think that would be for me either. Gosh, am I ever

frustrated trying

> to figure this out!

,

Although the Th1/Th2 distinction in the immune system can be helpful

general information for us, it is not specific enough to model your

protocol on. Like Patty says, if you are Th1 dominant, that is

probably a good thing. In your case, taking the right TF would have

the effect of directing your already activated immune system to the

pathogens that are causing the activation in the first place. This

would eventually result in a lessening of symptoms, but probably

would be no fun for a while. If you can afford it, you would benefit

from some immune function tests so you can find out specifically what

is happening in your body. It is the autoimmune component that is

the wild card.

If you have a lot of available brain power, you can get a general

idea of the processes involved by reading " How the Immune System

Works " by Sompayrac, but it is not light reading and will not

provide you with a specific recipe for your next step.

Balancing our immune system is our ultimate goal, and for a lot of

us, IP and TF are useful, but as we all know, the individual

variations in our conditon make this a complicated picture. Too

complicated to be able to say " I just need to lower Th1 cytokines to

see some improvement " .

I hope you can find or afford a doc who can give you some useful

guidance on the subject.

Luke

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