Guest guest Posted May 24, 2000 Report Share Posted May 24, 2000 In a message dated 5/24/00 1:40:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jschm111@... writes: << Has anyone followed a new theory that has emerged on the cause of CFS (given by M.L. Pall)? It's based on elevated levels peroxynitrite. The theory states that there is an initial assault, from a virus or bacteria. A perpetual cycle is then started, and keeps one sick, even if the initial virus/bacteria is gone. I have read the paper, and I am going to contact the author to get a few questions answered. Jim >> Hi Jim, could you post more info about this? I would love to read the research or the info on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2000 Report Share Posted May 24, 2000 In a message dated 5/24/00 1:40:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jschm111@... writes: << by M.L. Pall)? It's based on elevated levels peroxynitrite. The theory states that there is an initial assault, from a virus or bacteria. A perpetual cycle is then started, and keeps one sick, even if the initial virus/bacteria is gone. I have read the paper, and I am going to contact the author to get a few questions answered. >> Jim, also did he happen to say what the treatment is? I am not so sure about the problem being elevated peroxynitrate because pycnogenol supplement (OPC's) do a great job a nuetralizing peroxynitrate and many cfs patients take these and we aren't better. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2000 Report Share Posted May 24, 2000 The paper is published in Medical Hypotheses (2000) 54(1), 155-125. He says a virus/infection causes high levels of inflammatory cytokines (interferones, interleukins, TNF), which then induce iNOS (nitric oxide synthetase), which increases levels of peroxynitrite. There are several processes that act as a positive feedback loop to keep this cycle going. The results is dysfunction in mitochondria, in energy metabolism, in HPA and in other organs, and also low glucocorticoids. There is alot more discussed on how this all works and what abnormalities it causes. He seems to make a reasonable effort to try to explain how many of the abnormalities we see in CFS fit into his theory. He also lists 9 types of treatment. Since peroxynitrite is an oxidant, one treatment category involves taking anti-oxidants. His list includes Co-Q10, carnitine, NSAIDS, NOS-inhibitors, MnTBAP, linomide, genistein, poly(ADP-ribose) synthase inhibitors, flavonoids, etc. I don't know if this theory is sound. Hopefully we can disect it a bit and see if it makes sense. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2000 Report Share Posted May 24, 2000 Does the initial infection damage the endocrine system? steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2000 Report Share Posted May 24, 2000 Steve: Could you tell me where this new theory is posted at? I would like to read the entire theory. But I don't think this is a new theory from what I read on the posts here. Cheney told me this theory back in 95. If I understand correctly, the hit to the HPA axis (brain damage) is from the upregulated Alpha-Interferon. This chemical is neuro-toxic and is supposed to be....its purpose is to kill invaders....but in CFS, it just doesn't turn off. No one is sure if it stays on because a virus or some bug is still in us (the initial one), or if the HHV6A, Mycos etc keep it turned on. or if that part of our immune system is stuck in a positive feedback loop and just can't turn off. Laurion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2000 Report Share Posted May 24, 2000 In a message dated 5/24/00 6:14:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jschm111@... writes: << He also lists 9 types of treatment. Since peroxynitrite is an oxidant, one treatment category involves taking anti-oxidants. His list includes Co-Q10, carnitine, NSAIDS, NOS-inhibitors, MnTBAP, linomide, genistein, poly(ADP-ribose) synthase inhibitors, flavonoids, etc. >> I know what co-q10 and carnitine is but what are things like MnTBAP, Linomide, and genistein? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2000 Report Share Posted May 24, 2000 Hi Steve, It affects the HPA axis, that's stands for the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal axis. Al > Does the initial infection damage the endocrine system? > steve > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2000 Report Share Posted May 25, 2000 right but what about the thyroid & testes --- also is there any notion on how it effects the HPA axis. Does it effect the thalamus of the pituitary gland & therefore the stimulating hormones are effected or does it damage the gland directly. So often folks write that it effects the HPA axis but the they do not specifically describe how and they do not sight research to support their point of view. Thanks for bring this new information to our attention, it is always fun to have some new ideas to chew on. steve Al Melillo wrote: > Hi Steve, > It affects the HPA axis, that's stands for the > Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal axis. > Al > > > Does the initial infection damage the endocrine system? > > steve > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations. > Remember the good 'ol days > 1/4053/4/_/531724/_/959219905/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2000 Report Share Posted May 25, 2000 Hi steve, I don't have the references but it's out there. With a search engine like aj.com you could ask " how does CFS affect the HPA axis? " hit return key. Also, try www.cfids-me.org and the link there for the CFS web ring. Al Re: Re: New Theory On CFS > right but what about the thyroid & testes --- also is there any notion on how it effects the HPA axis. Does it effect the thalamus of the pituitary gland & therefore the stimulating hormones are > effected or does it damage the gland directly. So often folks write that it effects the HPA axis but the they do not specifically describe how and they do not sight research to support their point > of view. > > Thanks for bring this new information to our attention, it is always fun to have some new ideas to chew on. > steve > > Al Melillo wrote: > > > Hi Steve, > > It affects the HPA axis, that's stands for the > > Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal axis. > > Al > > > > > Does the initial infection damage the endocrine system? > > > steve > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations. > > Remember the good 'ol days > > 1/4053/4/_/531724/_/959219905/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Missing old school friends? Find them here: > 1/4055/4/_/531724/_/959262797/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2000 Report Share Posted May 30, 2000 Jim I remember reading on it last year. Was intrigued as I recall it is similar to the nitric(?) oxide theory. If I remember correctly one would benefit from metal detox and killing the virus and/or bacteria. Your question has motivated me to pull that article out. Phil lbinujrsy@... wrote: > In a message dated 5/24/00 1:40:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jschm111@... > writes: > > << Has anyone followed a new theory that has emerged on the cause of CFS > (given > by M.L. Pall)? It's based on elevated levels peroxynitrite. > > The theory states that there is an initial assault, from a virus or > bacteria. > A perpetual cycle is then started, and keeps one sick, even if the initial > virus/bacteria is gone. > > I have read the paper, and I am going to contact the author to get a few > questions answered. > > Jim >> > > Hi Jim, could you post more info about this? I would love to read the > research or the info on it. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Find long lost high school friends: > 1/4056/4/_/531724/_/959204700/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2000 Report Share Posted May 31, 2000 Phil - There's an interesting article by Perlmetter (sp?) - a neurologist - on Great Smokies web site - www.gsdl,com - on neurodegenerative diseases where he talks about perioxynitrite (sp?). Deb Re: Re: New Theory On CFS > Jim > I remember reading on it last year. Was intrigued as I recall it is similar to the nitric(?) oxide theory. If I remember correctly one would benefit from metal detox and killing the virus and/or > bacteria. Your question has motivated me to pull that article out. > > Phil > > lbinujrsy@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/24/00 1:40:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jschm111@... > > writes: > > > > << Has anyone followed a new theory that has emerged on the cause of CFS > > (given > > by M.L. Pall)? It's based on elevated levels peroxynitrite. > > > > The theory states that there is an initial assault, from a virus or > > bacteria. > > A perpetual cycle is then started, and keeps one sick, even if the initial > > virus/bacteria is gone. > > > > I have read the paper, and I am going to contact the author to get a few > > questions answered. > > > > Jim >> > > > > Hi Jim, could you post more info about this? I would love to read the > > research or the info on it. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Find long lost high school friends: > > 1/4056/4/_/531724/_/959204700/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Hot off the press- summer's here! > School's out and it's sizzling hot. Whether you're planning a > graduation party, a summer brunch, or simple birthday party, > shop GreatEntertaining.com before your next celebration. > 1/4473/4/_/531724/_/959777113/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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