Rich

[Guest guest]

,

Malate can be decarboxylated to form pyruvate by the action of the

malic enzyme (officially known as malate dehydrogenase

(decarboxylating:NADP+))and NADP+. Pyruvate can then be reduced to

lactate by the action of lactate dehydrogenase and NADH. So yes,

you're right. In principle, malic acid can be converted to lactic

acid.

However, the malic enzyme is induced by insulin. Since you avoid

sugars and starches, I suspect that your insulin level is not

elevated. In that case, I expect that the malate from supplementary

malic acid or magnesium malate will not be converted to lactate, but

will act to boost the malate shuttle so that NADH will give its

reducing equivalents to the shuttle rather than using them to produce

lactate from pyruvate.

The other thing that makes me hopeful about this is that many PWCs

have reported benefits from taking malic acid or magnesium malate. If

there was significant conversion to lactic acid, I believe they would

feel it, and they wouldn't like it!

Rich

> Just a thought...you mentioned malic acid for lactic acid problems.

But

> doesn't malic acid convert to lactic acid in the body...or am I

confusing

> those two with other things?

[Guest guest]

Steve,

Thanks for your confidence in me! Even though I think we are all on the right

track concerning a's case, I think we'll have to wait to see if our ideas

prove out.

Concerning your suggestions about a possible career path for me that involves

getting an M.D. and opening a clinic, I'm afraid I'm a little too old for that.

What I'm hoping to do is to participate in the final cracking of CFS, in all of

its infernal forms. If we can do this, all the M.D.s will be able to treat it

successfully. I think we're getting closer, but there appear to be quite a few

subsets.

Rich

> Rich,

>

> Given your comprehensive assessment of a's condition you should get an

MD and open a CFS clinic or open a clinic in Tijuana and inexpensively hire a

local MD to write the prescriptions? Steve B.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bob,

>

> Rich, I just got back from Dallas and you had answered several of

my questions and I wanted to say thanks!

You're welcome!

>

> In one post you mentioned that if a person was low on selenium,

their glutathione may not be used properly. I just read a study that

showed most PWC's are low in Selenium?

I don't think I've seen a report on that study. Do you have a

reference for it? I did see a German study by Reinhard et al that

found low selenium in PWFs.

>

> I just got my Cholestyramine in from Mass. today and I am going to

start that. Did you read the post from me where I started taking an

antibiotic last tuesday and have been CFS symptom free since? I have

read quite a few times lately on the Stealth virus list about this

happening but they would relapse after a few months. What do you

think could be going on?

Yes, I read your post about that. If the antibiotic is helping you,

I think it most likely means that you had a bacterial infection,

although I have read that antibiotics can have other effects, apart

from killing bacteria. I suppose that the relapses mean that the

bacterial infection killed off by the antibiotic was not the whole

story. Perhaps killing off the bacteria allowed some other pathogen

to take hold, since there can be competition between them,

especially in the gut.

>

> I posted some of Dr Shoemaker's posts and I was wondering what you

thought about what he is saying about MSH?

I haven't had time to study that enough yet to feel like I

understand it.

>

> Last, but not least, I have known you since last year. I know you

were a scientist and I recently found out you had cancer and I

assume you are cancer free now. I hope so!!!! Would you mind

sending a post that tells me what field of work you were in and how

you got involved in trying to help us PWC's, which I appreciate so

much. I what would like to know more about Rich the human. If you

prefer not to share this, I understand and just don't say anything

and I will understand. Someone told me you live in CA, is that right

and if so, where?

Since this is off-topic, I will send you an e-mail about this off

the list.

>

> Rich thanks for the time you devote to us. I wish I could go to

that meeting in D.C. in Feb. and meet you but after Peru, I better

stay home and save money!

You're welcome, Bob. I understand what you mean about saving

money! Maybe we'll cross paths some time later on.

>

> Bob

Rich

[Guest guest]

Rich,

I want to echo with my sincere thanks. Your insights are most

appreciated and I feel fortunate to have found you and this list.

I must confess to more than a bit of curiosity about your field of

science too. Your answers are also so knowledable, though sometimes

a bit over my head. ;-)

Merry Christmas and happy holidays!

- don

[Guest guest]

Don,

You're very welcome, and I hope you have a very Merry Christmas, too.

My formal education and experience are in engineering and the

physical sciences. I have been studying the biological sciences,

nutrition, and diseases as a hobby for the past six years or so.

I'll try to make my explanations more understandable. I find that in

order to explain something in a simple way, I have to understand it

pretty well myself first. Unfortunately, this isn't always the case!

Have a good one!

Rich

> Rich,

>

> I want to echo with my sincere thanks. Your insights are most

> appreciated and I feel fortunate to have found you and this list.

>

> I must confess to more than a bit of curiosity about your field of

> science too. Your answers are also so knowledable, though

sometimes

> a bit over my head. ;-)

>

> Merry Christmas and happy holidays!

>

> - don

[Guest guest]

Hi Rich,

I only stumbled onto this group recently, but I wanted to say that I am

grateful for your devotion to helping PWCs and contributing to the

understanding CFS. I'm sorry to hear of the loss of one of your friends and

the illness of another.

Ellen

[Guest guest]

Ladies

When we first got our six year old son, what this was called was

perseveration. Like the brain was stuck in a groove.... this was well over 30

years

ago.

We broke the cycling by making a loud noise, anything unexpected by him.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

,

Hmmm. I get stuck on things, but only for a while. Then I get stuck on

something else. Kind of a family joke. My fixation of the day.

Sometimes I think this song thing is kind of an OCD. Right now Mozart

is playing :-) Better than most. Good thing I didn't see your list of

music last night or I would have been doomed! Didn't see it till this

morning.

My brother-in-law, who is in his 70s has started counting and tapping.

And he doesn't have CFIDS. Is quite healthy for his age. We never know

what's gonna happen next.

When I was a speech and language therapist I used to think this brain

stuff eas reeel interesting. Little did I know I would become the

subject. Well, the human brain is the only thing that can think about

itself.

Michele G

[Guest guest]

Hmmmm, mjh? Doesn't this sound kind of dangerous for an older

person? I'm thinking of my halcyon days of eating tube muffins....

I'd go into the kitchen, retrieve a tube of muffins, crack the tube

on the corner of the kitchen sink...whereupon the package almost

always exploded, sending me into paroxysms of what must have been a

near-death experience...not to mention nearly blowing me physically

out of the kitchen. A perfectly good " loud noise, " but me thinks a

tad too risky (be still my heart...).

Michele? Try the tube of muffins. It's guaranteed to stop all

mental function immediately. I'm so glad this is " you, not me. "

>

> Ladies

>

> When we first got our six year old son, what this was called was

> perseveration. Like the brain was stuck in a groove.... this was

well over 30 years

> ago.

>

> We broke the cycling by making a loud noise, anything unexpected

by him.

>

> mjh

> " The Basil Book "

> _http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_

(http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Yes. Perseveration. Very common in people with brain damage - from

stroke victims to autistic kids to developmentally disabled kids,

normal kids too, and now - to CFIDS/ME people like me. There is the

phenomenon of perseverative speech, also actions, etc. I know an

attorney who repeats herself over and over - she has neither CFIDS nor

is she developmentally disabled. But we all have out little brain

glitches. I guess a loud noise like exploding muffins is one way to

temporarily stop the perseverating. Then what do you do with the

muffins? I ghess cleaning up the mess is distracting for a while.

Michele G

>

> Ladies

>

> When we first got our six year old son, what this was called was

> perseveration. Like the brain was stuck in a groove.... this was

well over 30 years

> ago.

>

> We broke the cycling by making a loud noise, anything unexpected by

him.

>

> mjh

> " The Basil Book "

> _http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

>

> ,

> Hmmm. I get stuck on things, but only for a while. Then I get stuck on

> something else. Kind of a family joke. My fixation of the day.

> Sometimes I think this song thing is kind of an OCD. Right now Mozart

> is playing :-) Better than most. Good thing I didn't see your list of

> music last night or I would have been doomed! Didn't see it till this

> morning.

> My brother-in-law, who is in his 70s has started counting and tapping.

> And he doesn't have CFIDS. Is quite healthy for his age. We never know

> what's gonna happen next.

> When I was a speech and language therapist I used to think this brain

> stuff eas reeel interesting. Little did I know I would become the

> subject. Well, the human brain is the only thing that can think about

> itself.

> Michele G

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Jeff.

I don't know if you intended this message for me or not. I'm not " the

editor. " If you want to reinstate your digest, go to the webpage for

the group at /,

click on " Edit Membership " at the top of the page, and select the

digest option.

Rich

>

>

> To the editor,

>

> I didn't get a daily digest today and I don't think I got one

yesterday.

> what do I have to do to restore or re-install it? Could I have

somehow

> discontinued them? Thanks. This is a great website.

>

> From Jeff

>

[Guest guest]

Go to 'Home', 'edit membership', choose digest (personally I like to

read the messages from the website), and the MAKE SURE to click

on 'Save Changes'. If you don't click on 'save changes' nothing

will happen. BTW, I just noticed there were over 3,000 posts to

this list in July-totally excellent.

Mike C (if u are reading this from the website, 'home' will be

in the upper left hand part of the page)

>

>

> To the editor,

>

> I didn't get a daily digest today and I don't think I got one

yesterday.

> what do I have to do to restore or re-install it? Could I have

somehow

> discontinued them? Thanks. This is a great website.

>

> From Jeff

>

[Guest guest]

Have you had a myotomy before? I think this will be a HUGE part of your decision

as 2nd myo's seem to be far less effective and for a shorter period of time.

Maybe I'm wrong but I can't think of anyone who's had a 2nd and done well for

many years.

~ in NC

[Guest guest]

,

I have never had a myotomy, so this will be the first! I've had 2 dilatations,

though. The first to 30mm, the second to 35 mm.

I was never completely satisfied with the results, though. By the time I opted

for the first dilatation, my esophagus had already become tortuous.

If I were to do this over, [HINT: MY RECOMMENDATION TO THE NEWLY DIAGNOSED] I

would have requested dilatation immediately after my initial diagnosis and not

waited (years). I was too scared to deal with surgery and recent new dad as

well. To make matters worse, I felt I was being given the " hard sell " for

surgery by the hospital and ran the other way! Dilatation was not presented as

a strong option for me ... but I think it would have been a perfect initial,

conservative intervention and much better than doing nothing! And in skilled

hands, a very smooth and straightforward procedure.

--Rich [Chicago]

>

> Have you had a myotomy before? I think this will be a HUGE part of your

decision as 2nd myo's seem to be far less effective and for a shorter period of

time. Maybe I'm wrong but I can't think of anyone who's had a 2nd and done well

for many years.

>

> ~ in NC

>

[Guest guest]

From my experience as a PWC who fullfills the CCC, the folinic acid/methlyfolate

causes me to crash/PEM/DPEM. i just can't tolerate it even in small amounts

everyday or eod. I've tried the protocol 2X for about 3 months each and 1 year

apart. i've used many vitamins and supplements for ME-CFS and the only other

supplement that crashes me is Transfer Factor. nothing else crashes me, but

nothing else helps me either.

From: rvankonynen <richvank@...>

Subject: Re: rich

Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 10:54 PM

 

Hi, deb.

What sort of reaction do you have to folinic acid?

Best regards,

Rich

>

> hi rich - i can't tolerate folinic acid or methyl b12....no problems with

folate

> or hydroxy...we are all so different..

> deb

>

>

[Guest guest]

________________________________

From: rvankonynen <richvank@...>

Sent: Wed, March 30, 2011 7:54:02 PM

Subject: Re: rich

 

Hi, deb.

What sort of reaction do you have to folinic acid?

Best regards,

Rich

>

> hi rich - i can't tolerate folinic acid or methyl b12....no problems with

>folate

>

> or hydroxy...we are all so different..

> deb

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Sara.

I'm very sorry about the flood!

Here's the information:

Methylation Pathways Panel

This panel will indicate whether a person has a partial methylation cycle block

and/or glutathione depletion. I recommend that this panel be run before

deciding whether to consider treatment for lifting the methylation cycle block.

I am not associated with the lab that offers this panel.

The panel requires an order from a physician or a chiropractor. The best way to

order the panel is by fax, on a clinician's letterhead.

Available from:

Health Diagnostics and Research Institute

540 Bordentown Avenue, Suite 2300

South Amboy, NJ 08879

USA

Phone: (732) 721-1234

Fax: (732) 525-3288

Lab Director: Valentine, M.D.

Dr. Tapan Audhya, Ph.D., is willing to help clinicians with interpretation of

the panel by phone.

Rich

>

> Rich, due to a flood------I have lost a lot of my information---computer and

paper trail. Please provide name and number of the methylation lab.

>

> God Bless,

> Sara

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Listers,

does anyone know if the methylation pathways panel is available in australia?

Cheers,

Lizzie

Re: Rich

Hi, Sara.

I'm very sorry about the flood!

Here's the information:

Methylation Pathways Panel

This panel will indicate whether a person has a partial methylation cycle

block and/or glutathione depletion. I recommend that this panel be run before

deciding whether to consider treatment for lifting the methylation cycle block.

I am not associated with the lab that offers this panel.

The panel requires an order from a physician or a chiropractor. The best way

to order the panel is by fax, on a clinician's letterhead.

Available from:

Health Diagnostics and Research Institute

540 Bordentown Avenue, Suite 2300

South Amboy, NJ 08879

USA

Phone: (732) 721-1234

Fax: (732) 525-3288

Lab Director: Valentine, M.D.

Dr. Tapan Audhya, Ph.D., is willing to help clinicians with interpretation of

the panel by phone.

Rich

>

> Rich, due to a flood------I have lost a lot of my information---computer and

paper trail. Please provide name and number of the methylation lab.

>

> God Bless,

> Sara

>

------------------------------------

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.