Re: throwing up after a myotomy

[Guest guest]

My daughter (30) was also under the impression that you could not vomit after a

heller myotomy but

she has had gastro enteritus and she was sick - a lot! No after effects either.

________________________________

From: josef <schmundt@...>

achalasia

Sent: Sun, 31 October, 2010 10:01:03

Subject: throwing up after a myotomy

I know this is a distasteful subject and supposedly one that does not need a

response as you are not supposed to be able to vomit after a Myotomy.I have now

several times since my operation in late July.I take zofran for nausea but

sometimes I think my pain meds for chronic pain make me so sick that it doesn't

work.It is a helpless feeling as you know you need th throw up but it takes

quite a few times before there are any results.This can't be good for you

either.If anyone has had an experience with these matters please let me know.

[Guest guest]

I don’t think there is anyone out there who truly cannot throw up at all,

unless they do not have a stomach.

Throwing up is initially an action of the stomach contracting, so as long as

that can still happen, technically you can still throw up.

It might not be pleasant, and it might be painful and it might take a lot of

“work†for anything to actually come up (not to get gross, but dry-heaving a

lot before anything comes out).

I had an esophagectomy in March 2007 and even with no esophagus and a modified

stomach I can still throw up. It doesn’t happen often, and it is painful and

VERY unpleasant, but it has happened once or twice.

From: achalasia [mailto:achalasia ] On Behalf Of

Dixon

Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 8:47 AM

achalasia

Subject: Re: throwing up after a myotomy

My daughter (30) was also under the impression that you could not vomit after a

heller myotomy but

she has had gastro enteritus and she was sick - a lot! No after effects either.

________________________________

From: josef <schmundt@... <mailto:schmundt%40> >

achalasia <mailto:achalasia%40>

Sent: Sun, 31 October, 2010 10:01:03

Subject: throwing up after a myotomy

I know this is a distasteful subject and supposedly one that does not need a

response as you are not supposed to be able to vomit after a Myotomy.I have now

several times since my operation in late July.I take zofran for nausea but

sometimes I think my pain meds for chronic pain make me so sick that it doesn't

work.It is a helpless feeling as you know you need th throw up but it takes

quite a few times before there are any results.This can't be good for you

either.If anyone has had an experience with these matters please let me know.

[Guest guest]

Hellers Myotomy and Dors Fundiplication in May 2009. I have thrown up 3 or

4 times since. It is usually when I try to eat rather dry meat or chicken.

It is not painful. I have also felt a vomiting issue coming on, but if I

walk and can get some trapped air up, it goes away. This is different than

rolling my stomach from bottom to top (like a belly dancer) to get foam or a

burp up. Surgeon at Cedars, Dr , said yes, I can throw up.

Wish I could get rid of the foam issue. Can anyone explain the mechanics of

that?

in Santa Barbara

In a message dated 10/31/2010 8:49:52 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

cynmark24@... writes:

Vomiting is for non-Achalasians. I regurgitate, while keeping my heaves

dry.

Vomiting is so " not me " anymore.

________________________________

From: Brown <_tracylb@..._ (mailto:tracylb@...) >

_achalasia _ (mailto:achalasia )

Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 9:01:46 AM

Subject: RE: throwing up after a myotomy

I don’t think there is anyone out there who truly cannot throw up at all,

unless

they do not have a stomach.

Throwing up is initially an action of the stomach contracting, so as long

as

that can still happen, technically you can still throw up.

It might not be pleasant, and it might be painful and it might take a lot

of

“work†for anything to actually come up (not to get gross, but

dry-heaving a lot

before anything comes out).

I had an esophagectomy in March 2007 and even with no esophagus and a

modified

stomach I can still throw up. It doesn’t happen often, and it is painful

and

VERY unpleasant, but it has happened once or twice.

From: _achalasia _ (mailto:achalasia )

[mailto:_achalasia _ (mailto:achalasia ) ] On

Behalf Of

Dixon

Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 8:47 AM

_achalasia _ (mailto:achalasia )

Subject: Re: throwing up after a myotomy

My daughter (30) was also under the impression that you could not vomit

after a

heller myotomy but

she has had gastro enteritus and she was sick - a lot! No after effects

either.

________________________________

From: josef <_schmundt@..._ (mailto:schmundt@...)

<mailto:schmundt%40> >

_achalasia _ (mailto:achalasia )

<mailto:achalasia%40>

Sent: Sun, 31 October, 2010 10:01:03

Subject: throwing up after a myotomy

I know this is a distasteful subject and supposedly one that does not need

a

response as you are not supposed to be able to vomit after a Myotomy.I

have now

several times since my operation in late July.I take zofran for nausea but

sometimes I think my pain meds for chronic pain make me so sick that it

doesn't

work.It is a helpless feeling as you know you need th throw up but it

takes

quite a few times before there are any results.This can't be good for you

either.If anyone has had an experience with these matters please let me

know.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

Vomiting is for non-Achalasians.  I regurgitate, while keeping my heaves

dry.  

Vomiting is so " not me " anymore. 

________________________________

From: Brown <tracylb@...>

achalasia

Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 9:01:46 AM

Subject: RE: throwing up after a myotomy

 

I don’t think there is anyone out there who truly cannot throw up at all,

unless

they do not have a stomach.

Throwing up is initially an action of the stomach contracting, so as long as

that can still happen, technically you can still throw up.

It might not be pleasant, and it might be painful and it might take a lot of

“work†for anything to actually come up (not to get gross, but dry-heaving a

lot

before anything comes out).

I had an esophagectomy in March 2007 and even with no esophagus and a modified

stomach I can still throw up. It doesn’t happen often, and it is painful and

VERY unpleasant, but it has happened once or twice.

From: achalasia [mailto:achalasia ] On Behalf Of

Dixon

Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 8:47 AM

achalasia

Subject: Re: throwing up after a myotomy

My daughter (30) was also under the impression that you could not vomit after a

heller myotomy but

she has had gastro enteritus and she was sick - a lot! No after effects either.

________________________________

From: josef <schmundt@... <mailto:schmundt%40> >

achalasia <mailto:achalasia%40>

Sent: Sun, 31 October, 2010 10:01:03

Subject: throwing up after a myotomy

I know this is a distasteful subject and supposedly one that does not need a

response as you are not supposed to be able to vomit after a Myotomy.I have now

several times since my operation in late July.I take zofran for nausea but

sometimes I think my pain meds for chronic pain make me so sick that it doesn't

work.It is a helpless feeling as you know you need th throw up but it takes

quite a few times before there are any results.This can't be good for you

either.If anyone has had an experience with these matters please let me know.

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> Throwing up is initially an action of the stomach contracting, so as long as

that can still happen, technically you can still throw up.

One of the things that happens in a person without achalasia is that

just before vomiting the LES relaxes. If the LES does not relax the

process could end with dry heaves. A fundoplication can but does not in

all cases add enough reflux prevention, (vomiting is refluxive), to

hinder vomiting or prevent it. In achalasia after a myotomy you have

both a LES that does not work right, and sometimes still hinders even

food going into the stomach, and a fundoplication. This can be a problem

for some and not for others. After an esophagectomy you don't have a LES.

After my myotomy I once spent a night having spell after spell of

retching (dry heaves). On a few heaves I got just a very little out. The

next day my chest and ribs were painful from all the unsuccessful effort.

Inability to vomit has been a known risk of fundoplication going back

many years. See:

Post Nissen syndrome. 1988

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3289131

" Gas bloat and inability to vomit after repair may be severe, but

infrequently require reoperation. "

notan

[Guest guest]

White Foam.

My theory is that we secrete extra saliva when something gets stuck in the LES.

________________________________

From: " julieok@... " <julieok@...>

achalasia

Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 11:24:36 AM

Subject: Re: throwing up after a myotomy

 

Hellers Myotomy and Dors Fundiplication in May 2009. I have thrown up 3 or

4 times since. It is usually when I try to eat rather dry meat or chicken.

It is not painful. I have also felt a vomiting issue coming on, but if I

walk and can get some trapped air up, it goes away. This is different than

rolling my stomach from bottom to top (like a belly dancer) to get foam or a

burp up. Surgeon at Cedars, Dr , said yes, I can throw up.

Wish I could get rid of the foam issue. Can anyone explain the mechanics of

that?

in Santa Barbara

In a message dated 10/31/2010 8:49:52 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

cynmark24@... writes:

Vomiting is for non-Achalasians. I regurgitate, while keeping my heaves

dry.

Vomiting is so " not me " anymore.

________________________________

From: Brown <_tracylb@..._ (mailto:tracylb@...) >

_achalasia _ (mailto:achalasia )

Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 9:01:46 AM

Subject: RE: throwing up after a myotomy

I don’t think there is anyone out there who truly cannot throw up at all,

unless

they do not have a stomach.

Throwing up is initially an action of the stomach contracting, so as long

as

that can still happen, technically you can still throw up.

It might not be pleasant, and it might be painful and it might take a lot

of

“work†for anything to actually come up (not to get gross, but

dry-heaving a lot

before anything comes out).

I had an esophagectomy in March 2007 and even with no esophagus and a

modified

stomach I can still throw up. It doesn’t happen often, and it is painful

and

VERY unpleasant, but it has happened once or twice.

From: _achalasia _ (mailto:achalasia )

[mailto:_achalasia _ (mailto:achalasia ) ] On

Behalf Of

Dixon

Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 8:47 AM

_achalasia _ (mailto:achalasia )

Subject: Re: throwing up after a myotomy

My daughter (30) was also under the impression that you could not vomit

after a

heller myotomy but

she has had gastro enteritus and she was sick - a lot! No after effects

either.

________________________________

From: josef <_schmundt@..._ (mailto:schmundt@...)

<mailto:schmundt%40> >

_achalasia _ (mailto:achalasia )

<mailto:achalasia%40>

Sent: Sun, 31 October, 2010 10:01:03

Subject: throwing up after a myotomy

I know this is a distasteful subject and supposedly one that does not need

a

response as you are not supposed to be able to vomit after a Myotomy.I

have now

several times since my operation in late July.I take zofran for nausea but

sometimes I think my pain meds for chronic pain make me so sick that it

doesn't

work.It is a helpless feeling as you know you need th throw up but it

takes

quite a few times before there are any results.This can't be good for you

either.If anyone has had an experience with these matters please let me

know.

[Guest guest]

,

I threw up twice 2 days after my myotomy in June. The meds they put me on were

making me that sick. The hospital told me to not take them and I haven't thrown

up since. It was very painful and scary.

Christy in FL

achalasia

From: schmundt@...

Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:01:03 +0000

Subject: throwing up after a myotomy

I know this is a distasteful subject and supposedly one that does not need a

response as you are not supposed to be able to vomit after a Myotomy.I have now

several times since my operation in late July.I take zofran for nausea but

sometimes I think my pain meds for chronic pain make me so sick that it doesn't

work.It is a helpless feeling as you know you need th throw up but it takes

quite a few times before there are any results.This can't be good for you

either.If anyone has had an experience with these matters please let me know.

[Guest guest]

I am the same as I recently had a stomach bug and dry heaved and heaved

for 2 days and nothing would come up at all.

It was very painful and did at times worry that I might be causing some damage

to the surgery that I have had.Eeven days after my ribs and chest ached so hope

not to have to go through that too aften

Pippa

>

> Vomiting is for non-Achalasians.  I regurgitate, while keeping my heaves

dry.  

> Vomiting is so " not me " anymore. 

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Sorry that you are having trouble throwing up. Ask your physician for

" Metoclopremide " . It is an anti nausea tablet that can be taken up to 3 times a

day for sickness. I have been taking this off and on since i have had my myotomy

back in July 2003. Don't get me wrong there have been spells that i have not

needed it so didn't take it but i found Metoclopremide easy on the stomach and

works almost straight away. Good Luck.

from the UK

________________________________

From: josef <schmundt@...>

achalasia

Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 10:01:03 AM

Subject: throwing up after a myotomy

 

I know this is a distasteful subject and supposedly one that does not need a

response as you are not supposed to be able to vomit after a Myotomy.I have now

several times since my operation in late July.I take zofran for nausea but

sometimes I think my pain meds for chronic pain make me so sick that it doesn't

work.It is a helpless feeling as you know you need th throw up but it takes

quite a few times before there are any results.This can't be good for you

either.If anyone has had an experience with these matters please let me know.

[Guest guest]

Forgot to mention that you most deffinately can throw up after a myotomy. Let me

prove it by explaining something. After having my myotomy back in July 2003 i

went on to have the full ectomy in October 2004 and within weeks of that i

needed a dilatation to control vomiting because everything that i swallowed came

back up when i vomited. It took 8 dilatations within the 1st year post ectomy to

control the vomiting as i was bringing up even my medication. Now i still have

problems swallowing with tablets sometimes getting stuck so i have to take

Metocloromide regularly to control the nausea.

from the UK

________________________________

From: josef <schmundt@...>

achalasia

Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 10:01:03 AM

Subject: throwing up after a myotomy

 

I know this is a distasteful subject and supposedly one that does not need a

response as you are not supposed to be able to vomit after a Myotomy.I have now

several times since my operation in late July.I take zofran for nausea but

sometimes I think my pain meds for chronic pain make me so sick that it doesn't

work.It is a helpless feeling as you know you need th throw up but it takes

quite a few times before there are any results.This can't be good for you

either.If anyone has had an experience with these matters please let me know.

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> Forgot to mention that you most deffinately can throw up after a myotomy.

Because you can does not prove everyone can. Some can, some can not. It

should be easy to vomit after an esophagectomy which proves nothing

about after a myotomy. I think people are under the impression that

vomiting just depends on the stomach. The force for vomiting is not

supplied by the stomach but by muscles of the abdomen. These are strong

muscles and why someone that spends long periods with dry heaves is

going be in pain afterwards. Think about it, why would stomach

contractions make your ribs hurt? It is these strong abdominal muscles

that are the cause of that pain. Even some of the contents of the small

intestines can be forced through the stomach and vomited out. There is

no reverse peristalsis to get the contents of the small intestines out,

only the contraction of the abdomen forces it out. If enough force is

generated and the LES and esophagus are open the contents of the stomach

will be forced into the esophagus. In achalasia some people find that

attempts to vomit end in dry heaves even before having a myotomy. That

is because the LES has too much pressure and does not open like it

should. Others with achalasia do not have that problem because they

don't have that high of pressure at the LES, some even have normal

pressure. After a myotomy the LES should have less pressure but a

fundoplication is going to hinder refluxive flows like vomiting. We

don't all have the same results at the LES and don't all get the same

fundoplication. Some can vomit some can not. After an esophagectomy you

have no LES so it won't be a problem for vomiting.

Some animals, such as rats, can not vomit because of their anatomy which

does not allow them to overcome the pressure at the LES.

notan

[Guest guest]

<p>There is also the question of vomiting versus the emptying of the E.</p>

<p>Dan<br></p>

<p>Sent from Phone</p>

[Guest guest]

Notan,

what you describe is what happens to me.I dry heave forever and then I may

get a little bile at some point.

> > Throwing up is initially an action of the stomach contracting, so as long as

that can still happen, technically you can still throw up.

>

> One of the things that happens in a person without achalasia is that

> just before vomiting the LES relaxes. If the LES does not relax the

> process could end with dry heaves. A fundoplication can but does not in

> all cases add enough reflux prevention, (vomiting is refluxive), to

> hinder vomiting or prevent it. In achalasia after a myotomy you have

> both a LES that does not work right, and sometimes still hinders even

> food going into the stomach, and a fundoplication. This can be a problem

> for some and not for others. After an esophagectomy you don't have a LES.

>

> After my myotomy I once spent a night having spell after spell of

> retching (dry heaves). On a few heaves I got just a very little out. The

> next day my chest and ribs were painful from all the unsuccessful effort.

>

> Inability to vomit has been a known risk of fundoplication going back

> many years. See:

>

> Post Nissen syndrome. 1988

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3289131

> " Gas bloat and inability to vomit after repair may be severe, but

> infrequently require reoperation. "

>

> notan

>

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> What you describe is what happens to me.I dry heave forever and then I may get

a little bile at some point.

If you are correct about the bile that could indicate that there was

nothing in the stomach before starting to heave, which can also be a

reason for dry heaves. The bile is from the duodenum which is the first

part of the small intestines. Bile is not normally in the stomach. If it

is, there could be Bile Reflux Disease. That sometimes happens after

having the gall badder removed among other causes. Bile reflux can also

happen when you sick.

notan

[Guest guest]

I understand what you are saying but understand me also. I had the myotomy done

July 2003 and had several bouts of vomiting which resulted in me being admitted

to hospital several times and transferred from my local general hospital to the

hospital that did the myotomy. It was due to continuing swallowing problems and

since i was by then using a feeding tube directly into my stomach that they

thought " Hey this patients Achalasia is much worse. " Then i was told i needed

the ectomy back in September 2004 and had the operation on 21st October 2004.

After the myotomy but before the ectomy the vomiting was bad and several times

had blood in it which is 1 reason why i was admitted to hospital for fluids

amongst other things.

from the UK

________________________________

From: notan ostrich <notan_ostrich@...>

achalasia

Sent: Mon, November 1, 2010 3:44:22 PM

Subject: Re: throwing up after a myotomy

 

wrote:

> Forgot to mention that you most deffinately can throw up after a myotomy.

Because you can does not prove everyone can. Some can, some can not. It

should be easy to vomit after an esophagectomy which proves nothing

about after a myotomy. I think people are under the impression that

vomiting just depends on the stomach. The force for vomiting is not

supplied by the stomach but by muscles of the abdomen. These are strong

muscles and why someone that spends long periods with dry heaves is

going be in pain afterwards. Think about it, why would stomach

contractions make your ribs hurt? It is these strong abdominal muscles

that are the cause of that pain. Even some of the contents of the small

intestines can be forced through the stomach and vomited out. There is

no reverse peristalsis to get the contents of the small intestines out,

only the contraction of the abdomen forces it out. If enough force is

generated and the LES and esophagus are open the contents of the stomach

will be forced into the esophagus. In achalasia some people find that

attempts to vomit end in dry heaves even before having a myotomy. That

is because the LES has too much pressure and does not open like it

should. Others with achalasia do not have that problem because they

don't have that high of pressure at the LES, some even have normal

pressure. After a myotomy the LES should have less pressure but a

fundoplication is going to hinder refluxive flows like vomiting. We

don't all have the same results at the LES and don't all get the same

fundoplication. Some can vomit some can not. After an esophagectomy you

have no LES so it won't be a problem for vomiting.

Some animals, such as rats, can not vomit because of their anatomy which

does not allow them to overcome the pressure at the LES.

notan