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You can find some good information at:

www.smart-drugs.com/GHB-South.htm

I have been using it for about a month - mostly for severe depression. It

really helps.

I would like to hear from others about your specific cycling. I did a lot

of research before I began dosing but there is very little written about

this. I'm actually a little hesitant about stopping it even for a day. Any

help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Rene

>From: bren@...

>Reply-longevityegroups

>longevityegroups

>Subject: GHB

>Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:41:35 -0500

>

>

>What is GHB?

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

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Hi Rene,

It will normalize your brain chemistry!

Read this:

Bimodal Psychotropic Response to GHB

Ever since the discovery of significant physiologic effects of GHB by Dr.

Henri Laborit over thirty years ago, researchers have been confounded by

government regulators and seemingly anomalous results. Faced with these two

problems many researchers have abandoned GHB in spite of its obvious

promise. Centurion Aging Research Lab (CARL) has managed to solve the first

problem, (temporarily at least), and now believe we have an explanation for

the latter. After years of research on GHB, the Staff at CARL began to

perceive that what at first was considered an anomaly is in fact, a

significant indicator of the potent beneficial effects of Gamma- Hydroxy

Butyrate.

We first became interested in GHB as an adjunct to our personal life

extension program due to its recognized ability to stimulate growth hormone

production and initiate restorative stage 4 sleep. Our personal experience

and a review of the literature led to the realization that GHB may be one of

the most significant life extension agents known, and we determined to make

its benefits available to the life extension community at large. (See our

page www.ghbinfo.com/getit) It was the universal experience of all our

associates that two to three grams of GHB was sufficient to induce a deep

restorative sleep, and lesser amounts had a pleasant relaxing effect.

Shortly after the introduction of our G-WiZzZzZ! kit for the safe, at home,

production of GHB, we became alarmed when several of our customers

complained that the kit products did not have the intended effects. Instead

of aiding in sleep the product kept them up all night! While it did not seem

possible, we had to assume that there was a problem with our quality

control, however when samples of the product were returned for analysis they

proved to be fine.

The conundrum deepened when a repeat customer called after the purchase of

his third kit to inquire what we had changed. He insisted that something had

been changed because the product was no longer working. When we inquired

further he replied that GHB was starting to put him to sleep and that it was

beginning to interfere with his functioning during the day. When informed

that this was the expected effect he responded that he had been taking as

much as four grams three times a day and that it used to make him feel

" energized and almost euphoric " , but now even small amounts were putting him

to sleep!

Clearly something very interesting was going on here. We were very much

aware of the significant biochemical individuality of response to GHB, and

of its steep dose/response curve. however we did not believe the phenomena

we were observing could be accounted for in this way. When we went back to

the literature we found that as many as 17% of the individuals in some

controlled studies could not achieve sleep with GHB, but this was mentioned

as an aside because the studies were investigating growth hormone production

and not sleep.

A break came when we received an inquiry from the Netherlands stating that a

doctor had suggested using GHB as an " AD " . We had no idea what was meant by

AD and were informed that it meant anti-depressant. Shortly there-after we

received a copy of Dr. Rifat's report and " the light began to dawn " .

Subsequent investigation revealed that every single case of GHB's failure to

induce sleep that we could account for was associated with a person who had

either been diagnosed as clinically depressed, or who had strong reason to

think they might be! It is interesting to note that Dr. Rifat admits to his

own condition as being clinically depressed.

Dr. Rifat's report contained a number of references to negative side-effects

of GHB and how to avoid them, which puzzled us. He seemed to consider the

sleep inducing effects of GHB to be negative, while we considered them

positive. He recommends cycling the use of GHB in order to avoid the

induction of sleep. He was also very concerned about the possibility of GHB

inducing epileptic type seizures, and recommended the prophylactic

administration of benzodiazepenes to protect against them. This was not only

unnecessary, it actually reduced the effectiveness of GHB therapy, by

producing competition for binding sites. The fear of epileptic type seizures

is based on animal studies and has since been shown to not apply to humans.

It is now clear that there is a bimodal psychotropic response to GHB. Most

people experience relaxation and deep sleep within 45 minutes in response to

3.5g or less of GHB, we refer to this as the Somnolent GHB Response (SGR). A

smaller population composed of clinically depressed individuals experience

euphoria and complete alleviation of depression at the same dose and in the

same period of time. We call this the Euphoric GHB Response (EGR). This

bimodal response to GHB means that for the first time there may be a

definitive, objective test for clinical depression.

Observations indicate that most depressed individuals undergo a change in

their response to GHB that corresponds with a long-term and possibly

permanent lifting of their depression. This shift in response usually occurs

in 30 to 90 days with a few individuals reporting the change within a week

and one who has still not experienced it after five months. There is some

evidence that caffeine may slow or inhibit the transition. It is tempting to

think of such long term change in terms of a " cure! " Unfortunately, Rifat

and others have apparently misinterpreted the change in response to GHB in a

negative light and have instituted protocols to prevent it from occurring,

rather than encouraging it.

For those health professionals who are working with GHB or would like to, we

suggest the following protocol. If an individual is experiencing symptoms of

depression administer two grams of GHB on an empty stomach. It is strongly

advised that this be done at a time when either potential response (SGR or

EGR) will not present a problem. If no subjective effects are experienced

within an hour, administer another 1.5 grams. If the subject feels anything

other than very tired or " drunk " they are not experiencing the expected

Somnolent GHB Response (SGR), and have EGR, or are experiencing Transitional

GHB Response (TGR). We suggest that individuals in EGR work with their

health care professional to determine optimal dosing which will vary with

the severity of the symptoms and which will decline over time. One

psychiatrist reported doses as high as 12 grams a day being required to

eliminate all undesirable symptoms, and that this dose declined to 6/g/day

within two weeks.

Once the transition from EGR to SGR begins to occur it is important

individuals stop taking GHB at times when drowsiness or sleep are unwanted.

A person experiencing EGR will exhibit heightened alertness and powers of

concentration which are advantages in many situations, and it is not

surprising that a person would view the loss of these effects as negative.

It is important that they realize that increased or repeated dosing will not

effect the return of such subjective effects and will in fact produce the

opposite result. As the EGR declines individuals should decrease and

eventually eliminate their daytime dosing and switch to a " maintenance

regime " of two to three grams at bed time.

These observations, interpretations, hypothesis, and recommendations are

presented as a public service by Centurion Aging Research Laboratory, in the

hope that they will spur further research, alleviate human suffering and

enrich the experience of life. They are based on our personal experience and

the experience of those who have been kind enough to report to us. This

report should not be construed as containing medical advice and has most

certainly NOT been approved by the FDA. We strongly discourage anyone from

beginning ANY program of personal experimentation without the consent and

advice of their health care professional. We would like to encourage anyone

who has had positive or negative experiences with GHB to share them with us.

reprint from: http://lab.eccentrica.org/ghb/bimodal.html

Regards,

Tom

> Re: GHB

>

> You can find some good information at:

> www.smart-drugs.com/GHB-South.htm

>

> I have been using it for about a month - mostly for severe depression. It

>

> really helps.

>

> I would like to hear from others about your specific cycling. I did a lot

>

> of research before I began dosing but there is very little written about

> this. I'm actually a little hesitant about stopping it even for a day.

> Any

> help would be appreciated.

>

> Thanks,

> Rene

>

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Try this . . http://www.pondman.nu/clpage.htm also

http://lab.eccentrica.org/ghb/

I would recommend sticking with GHB there is still time to buy GBL and NaOH

before HR 2130 goes into effect. Making GHB is easy I have all the info you

need to make it on (her) website (http://lab.eccentrica.org/ghb/), as well

as

the links to suppliers.

I recommend stocking up on GBL from AE Tech and NaOH from Vegan Soapworks,

they have the purest most trustworthy stuff out there.

Don't use 1,4 BDO or take GBL straight. The release of hGH,

with is not as strong with GBL or 1,4 BDO as with GHB.

I still consider GHB the safest from a medical standpoint. GBL and 1,4 BD

are safer from the legal standpoint (thanks to our idiot lawmakers). As

long

as you give your body 2-3 days off weekly, drink adequate water, don't mix

them (GHB, GBL, or 1,4 BD) with alcohol or sedatives, and be careful of the

dose, there is little chance of long-term damage. Sleep is one of natures

best medicines. By improving sleep alone, you are enhancing your longevity.

GBL needs to be converted to GHB by your liver enzymes. The effects of

exposure to free GBL in the blood are not fully explored. Extensive

research

has been done on GHB however. My fear is that it could stress the liver

some

as its ability to raise IGF-1 levels is less pronounced than with GHB.

regards,

Tom

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I found the link page on pond-... but couldnt find the other on how to make the ghb for research purposes of course.I would really appreciatte some feedback on this.Thanks in advance to any and all respondents.

Re: GHB

Try this . . http://www.pondman.nu/clpage.htm alsohttp://lab.eccentrica.org/ghb/I would recommend sticking with GHB there is still time to buy GBL and NaOHbefore HR 2130 goes into effect. Making GHB is easy I have all the info youneed to make it on (her) website (http://lab.eccentrica.org/ghb/), as wellasthe links to suppliers.I recommend stocking up on GBL from AE Tech and NaOH from Vegan Soapworks,they have the purest most trustworthy stuff out there.Don't use 1,4 BDO or take GBL straight. The release of hGH,with is not as strong with GBL or 1,4 BDO as with GHB.I still consider GHB the safest from a medical standpoint. GBL and 1,4 BD are safer from the legal standpoint (thanks to our idiot lawmakers). Aslong as you give your body 2-3 days off weekly, drink adequate water, don't mix them (GHB, GBL, or 1,4 BD) with alcohol or sedatives, and be careful of the dose, there is little chance of long-term damage. Sleep is one of natures best medicines. By improving sleep alone, you are enhancing your longevity.GBL needs to be converted to GHB by your liver enzymes. The effects of exposure to free GBL in the blood are not fully explored. Extensiveresearch has been done on GHB however. My fear is that it could stress the liversome as its ability to raise IGF-1 levels is less pronounced than with GHB.regards,Tom------------------------------------------------------------------------

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  • 3 weeks later...

Dale,

> In your professional opinion would products using furanone (renewtrient)

> have the same effects and work through the same mechanism as GHB.

It's not a professional opinion but from what I hear the furanone stuff is

potentially bad for the kidneys or liver.

-gts

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I have used both ghb and furanol,specificly rest-eze and in my non professional opinion,since I'm not a doctor,but more importantly in several ways a user of both,there is no comparision,I have yet to find anything that came close to the effects of ghb.Ghb is by far superior to any of the newer products out now claiming to give the same results.I have now decided to stop wasting money and stick only to what I know works. Rick-

Re: GHB

Dale,> In your professional opinion would products using furanone (renewtrient)> have the same effects and work through the same mechanism as GHB.It's not a professional opinion but from what I hear the furanone stuff ispotentially bad for the kidneys or liver.-gts------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Dale I just noticed that you asked me a question below but my answer was not

really an answer to your question.

As far as I know, only GHB works through the same mechanism as GHB. The

precursors like Renewtrient work only because they get converted to GHB in

the body or brain.

From what I understand there may be some problems with toxicity associated

with that conversion process, so GHB is probably safer than its precursors.

But that really wasn't your question.

-gta

Re: GHB

> Dale,

>

> > In your professional opinion would products using furanone (renewtrient)

> > have the same effects and work through the same mechanism as GHB.

>

> It's not a professional opinion but from what I hear the furanone stuff is

> potentially bad for the kidneys or liver.

>

> -gts

>

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Gordo,

Thanks, I think remeber on of the docs favoring furanone over tetramethlyene

glycol.

Dale

gts wrote:

Dale I just noticed that you asked me a question

below but my answer was not

really an answer to your question.

As far as I know, only GHB works through the same mechanism as GHB.

The

precursors like Renewtrient work only because they get converted to

GHB in

the body or brain.

>From what I understand there may be some problems with toxicity associated

with that conversion process, so GHB is probably safer than its precursors.

But that really wasn't your question.

-gta

Re: GHB

> Dale,

>

> > In your professional opinion would products using furanone (renewtrient)

> > have the same effects and work through the same mechanism as GHB.

>

> It's not a professional opinion but from what I hear the furanone

stuff is

> potentially bad for the kidneys or liver.

>

> -gts

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Stealth,

When you say grams, what form are you taking it in, i.e. liquid or capsules.

stealth@... wrote:

Rick...or anyone else for that mater,

Has anyone noticed a tolerance build to GHB? I have noticed it

it take 4.5 grams to feel any effects when 3.0 grams used to be sufficient.

I usually take a dose just to the limit of fellling a bit "woozy" ; even

though I feel this way, I notice an increase iin my increase compassion

to work out ..better endurance....quicker recovery between sets,,,..well

just about anything physical or cognitive. I cycle the use of GHB

every other day and then 1 week off at the end of the month.

Highlander wrote:

I

have used both ghb and furanol,specificly rest-eze and in my non professional

opinion,since I'm not a doctor,but more importantly in several ways a user

of both,there is no comparision,I have yet to find anything that came close

to the effects of ghb.Ghb is by far superior to any of the newer products

out now claiming to give the same results.I have now decided to stop wasting

money and stick only to what I know works.

Rick-

Re: GHB

Dale,

> In your professional opinion would products using furanone (renewtrient)

> have the same effects and work through the same mechanism as GHB.

It's not a professional opinion but from what I hear the furanone stuff

is

potentially bad for the kidneys or liver.

-gts

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Hi ,

No drop off for me; whenever I do notice a tolerance buildup I cut

back until I get the original effect.

Have you seen this article:

Bimodal Psychotropic Response to GHB

Ever since the discovery of significant physiologic effects of GHB by Dr.

Henri Laborit over thirty years ago, researchers have been confounded by

government regulators and seemingly anomalous results. Faced with these two

problems many researchers have abandoned GHB in spite of its obvious

promise. Centurion Aging Research Lab (CARL) has managed to solve the first

problem, (temporarily at least), and now believe we have an explanation for

the latter. After years of research on GHB, the Staff at CARL began to

perceive that what at first was considered an anomaly is in fact, a

significant indicator of the potent beneficial effects of Gamma- Hydroxy

Butyrate.

We first became interested in GHB as an adjunct to our personal life

extension program due to its recognized ability to stimulate growth hormone

production and initiate restorative stage 4 sleep. Our personal experience

and a review of the literature led to the realization that GHB may be one of

the most significant life extension agents known, and we determined to make

its benefits available to the life extension community at large. (See our

page www.ghbinfo.com/getit) It was the universal experience of all our

associates that two to three grams of GHB was sufficient to induce a deep

restorative sleep, and lesser amounts had a pleasant relaxing effect.

Shortly after the introduction of our G-WiZzZzZ! kit for the safe, at home,

production of GHB, we became alarmed when several of our customers

complained that the kit products did not have the intended effects. Instead

of aiding in sleep the product kept them up all night! While it did not seem

possible, we had to assume that there was a problem with our quality

control, however when samples of the product were returned for analysis they

proved to be fine.

The conundrum deepened when a repeat customer called after the purchase of

his third kit to inquire what we had changed. He insisted that something had

been changed because the product was no longer working. When we inquired

further he replied that GHB was starting to put him to sleep and that it was

beginning to interfere with his functioning during the day. When informed

that this was the expected effect he responded that he had been taking as

much as four grams three times a day and that it used to make him feel

" energized and almost euphoric " , but now even small amounts were putting him

to sleep!

Clearly something very interesting was going on here. We were very much

aware of the significant biochemical individuality of response to GHB, and

of its steep dose/response curve. however we did not believe the phenomena

we were observing could be accounted for in this way. When we went back to

the literature we found that as many as 17% of the individuals in some

controlled studies could not achieve sleep with GHB, but this was mentioned

as an aside because the studies were investigating growth hormone production

and not sleep.

A break came when we received an inquiry from the Netherlands stating that a

doctor had suggested using GHB as an " AD " . We had no idea what was meant by

AD and were informed that it meant anti-depressant. Shortly there-after we

received a copy of Dr. Rifat's report and " the light began to dawn " .

Subsequent investigation revealed that every single case of GHB's failure to

induce sleep that we could account for was associated with a person who had

either been diagnosed as clinically depressed, or who had strong reason to

think they might be! It is interesting to note that Dr. Rifat admits to his

own condition as being clinically depressed.

Dr. Rifat's report contained a number of references to negative side-effects

of GHB and how to avoid them, which puzzled us. He seemed to consider the

sleep inducing effects of GHB to be negative, while we considered them

positive. He recommends cycling the use of GHB in order to avoid the

induction of sleep. He was also very concerned about the possibility of GHB

inducing epileptic type seizures, and recommended the prophylactic

administration of benzodiazepenes to protect against them. This was not only

unnecessary, it actually reduced the effectiveness of GHB therapy, by

producing competition for binding sites. The fear of epileptic type seizures

is based on animal studies and has since been shown to not apply to humans.

It is now clear that there is a bimodal psychotropic response to GHB. Most

people experience relaxation and deep sleep within 45 minutes in response to

3.5g or less of GHB, we refer to this as the Somnolent GHB Response (SGR). A

smaller population composed of clinically depressed individuals experience

euphoria and complete alleviation of depression at the same dose and in the

same period of time. We call this the Euphoric GHB Response (EGR). This

bimodal response to GHB means that for the first time there may be a

definitive, objective test for clinical depression.

Observations indicate that most depressed individuals undergo a change in

their response to GHB that corresponds with a long-term and possibly

permanent lifting of their depression. This shift in response usually occurs

in 30 to 90 days with a few individuals reporting the change within a week

and one who has still not experienced it after five months. There is some

evidence that caffeine may slow or inhibit the transition. It is tempting to

think of such long term change in terms of a " cure! " Unfortunately, Rifat

and others have apparently misinterpreted the change in response to GHB in a

negative light and have instituted protocols to prevent it from occurring,

rather than encouraging it.

For those health professionals who are working with GHB or would like to, we

suggest the following protocol. If an individual is experiencing symptoms of

depression administer two grams of GHB on an empty stomach. It is strongly

advised that this be done at a time when either potential response (SGR or

EGR) will not present a problem. If no subjective effects are experienced

within an hour, administer another 1.5 grams. If the subject feels anything

other than very tired or " drunk " they are not experiencing the expected

Somnolent GHB Response (SGR), and have EGR, or are experiencing Transitional

GHB Response (TGR). We suggest that individuals in EGR work with their

health care professional to determine optimal dosing which will vary with

the severity of the symptoms and which will decline over time. One

psychiatrist reported doses as high as 12 grams a day being required to

eliminate all undesirable symptoms, and that this dose declined to 6/g/day

within two weeks.

Once the transition from EGR to SGR begins to occur it is important

individuals stop taking GHB at times when drowsiness or sleep are unwanted.

A person experiencing EGR will exhibit heightened alertness and powers of

concentration which are advantages in many situations, and it is not

surprising that a person would view the loss of these effects as negative.

It is important that they realize that increased or repeated dosing will not

effect the return of such subjective effects and will in fact produce the

opposite result. As the EGR declines individuals should decrease and

eventually eliminate their daytime dosing and switch to a " maintenance

regime " of two to three grams at bed time.

These observations, interpretations, hypothesis, and recommendations are

presented as a public service by Centurion Aging Research Laboratory, in the

hope that they will spur further research, alleviate human suffering and

enrich the experience of life. They are based on our personal experience and

the experience of those who have been kind enough to report to us. This

report should not be construed as containing medical advice and has most

certainly NOT been approved by the FDA. We strongly discourage anyone from

beginning ANY program of personal experimentation without the consent and

advice of their health care professional. We would like to encourage anyone

who has had positive or negative experiences with GHB to share them with us.

reprint from: http://lab.eccentrica.org/ghb/bimodal.html

> Re: GHB

>

> Rick...or anyone else for that mater,

> Has anyone noticed a tolerance build to GHB? I have noticed it it take

> 4.5 grams to feel any effects when 3.0 grams used to be sufficient. I

> usually take a dose just to the limit of fellling a bit " woozy " ; even

> though I feel this way, I notice an increase iin my increase compassion

> to work out ..better endurance....quicker recovery between sets,,,..well

> just about anything physical or cognitive. I cycle the use of GHB every

> other day and then 1 week off at the end of the month.

>

>

>

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Red Devil Lye is meant for cleaning drains so I don't know if you can depend

on its purity. It might contain lead or other impurities. Sodium Hydroxide

(NaOH) is not a controlled substance, so it might be worth the trouble to

open up the yellow pages and find a chemical supply company that sells it.

I've heard that stores that sell wine and beer making equipment for home

brewers also carry pure NaOH for use in brewing. It's also available on the

net. I know there is a soap company that sells soap making supplies

including pure NaOH on the net at a good price... but I don't remember the

URL.

-gts

GHB

> For those looking for sodium hydroxide, it has just come to my attention

> that since it is really lye, Red Devil lye is the exact same thing.

> There are two types, but get the one that is 100% sodium hydroxide.

>

> Dale

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

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I can't give yo a good answer because when I took it was years ago,and at that time I didn't cycle it,I took it every day for several months,and it's affects increased after about a month or so which I am sure had to do with a build up of it in my system,since I didn't increase the dosage to any noticable degree.I guess that does answer your question after all.but the problem is that I took it more or less as needed,if I felt on a particular day that I wasn't feeling the way I wanted I would take a little more,and visa versa.

Re: GHB Dale, > In your professional opinion would products using furanone (renewtrient) > have the same effects and work through the same mechanism as GHB. It's not a professional opinion but from what I hear the furanone stuff is potentially bad for the kidneys or liver. -gts ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Rick...or anyone else for that mater,

Has anyone noticed a tolerance build to GHB? I have noticed it

it take 4.5 grams to feel any effects when 3.0 grams used to be sufficient.

I usually take a dose just to the limit of fellling a bit "woozy" ; even

though I feel this way, I notice an increase iin my increase compassion

to work out ..better endurance....quicker recovery between sets,,,..well

just about anything physical or cognitive. I cycle the use of GHB

every other day and then 1 week off at the end of the month.

Highlander wrote:

I

have used both ghb and furanol,specificly rest-eze and in my non professional

opinion,since I'm not a doctor,but more importantly in several ways a user

of both,there is no comparision,I have yet to find anything that came close

to the effects of ghb.Ghb is by far superior to any of the newer products

out now claiming to give the same results.I have now decided to stop wasting

money and stick only to what I know works.

Rick-

Re: GHB

Dale,

> In your professional opinion would products using furanone (renewtrient)

> have the same effects and work through the same mechanism as GHB.

It's not a professional opinion but from what I hear the furanone stuff

is

potentially bad for the kidneys or liver.

-gts

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Hi,

Grams as in a liquid GHB / Distilled water base - when you mix

a 190gram kit --> gbl / NaOH and with distilled H2O into a

32 oz bottle, it yields approximately 1 gram per teaspoonfull of

GHB. (0.98 grams per teaspoon actually).

"Dale R. Hersh" wrote:

Stealth,

When you say grams, what form are you taking it in, i.e. liquid or capsules.

stealth@... wrote:

Rick...or anyone else for that mater,

Has anyone noticed a tolerance build to GHB? I have noticed it

it take 4.5 grams to feel any effects when 3.0 grams used to be sufficient.

I usually take a dose just to the limit of fellling a bit "woozy" ; even

though I feel this way, I notice an increase iin my increase compassion

to work out ..better endurance....quicker recovery between sets,,,..well

just about anything physical or cognitive. I cycle the use of GHB

every other day and then 1 week off at the end of the month.

Highlander wrote:

I

have used both ghb and furanol,specificly rest-eze and in my non professional

opinion,since I'm not a doctor,but more importantly in several ways a user

of both,there is no comparision,I have yet to find anything that came close

to the effects of ghb.Ghb is by far superior to any of the newer products

out now claiming to give the same results.I have now decided to stop wasting

money and stick only to what I know works.

Rick-

Re: GHB

Dale,

> In your professional opinion would products using furanone (renewtrient)

> have the same effects and work through the same mechanism as GHB.

It's not a professional opinion but from what I hear the furanone stuff

is

potentially bad for the kidneys or liver.

-gts

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Sorry, someone asked me about the process & how I came up with the

1G/teaspoon concentration...deleted your e-mail message - so here it

is...

You take 135grams GBL and 60 grams Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) and combine

(this is actually 195grams). You use about 135 grams (4.8ounces)

distilled water to produce the exothermic/solvent action by pouring this

into the 195gram GBL/NaOH solution- then wait until it cools - poor this

contents into the quart bottle then top the bottle off with distilled

water - it yields approximately a 1 gram concentration of GHB per

teaspoonfull. (approximately 28g = 1ounce).

stealth@... wrote:

> Hi,

> Grams as in a liquid GHB / Distilled water base - when you mix a

> 190gram kit --> gbl / NaOH and with distilled H2O into a 32 oz

> bottle, it yields approximately 1 gram per teaspoonfull of GHB. (0.98

> grams per teaspoon actually).

>

>

> " Dale R. Hersh " wrote:

>

>> Stealth,

>>

>> When you say grams, what form are you taking it in, i.e. liquid or

>> capsules.

>>

>> stealth@... wrote:

>>

>> > Rick...or anyone else for that mater,

>> > Has anyone noticed a tolerance build to GHB? I have noticed it it

>> > take 4.5 grams to feel any effects when 3.0 grams used to be

>> > sufficient. I usually take a dose just to the limit of fellling a

>> > bit " woozy " ; even though I feel this way, I notice an increase iin

>> > my increase compassion to work out ..better endurance....quicker

>> > recovery between sets,,,..well just about anything physical or

>> > cognitive. I cycle the use of GHB every other day and then 1 week

>> > off at the end of the month.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > Highlander wrote:

>> >

>> >> I have used both ghb and furanol,specificly rest-eze and in my

>> >> non professional opinion,since I'm not a doctor,but more

>> >> importantly in several ways a user of both,there is no

>> >> comparision,I have yet to find anything that came close to the

>> >> effects of ghb.Ghb is by far superior to any of the newer

>> >> products out now claiming to give the same results.I have now

>> >> decided to stop wasting money and stick only to what I know

>> >> works.

>> >> Rick-

>> >>

>> >> Re: GHB

>> >> Dale,

>> >>

>> >> > In your professional opinion would products using

>> >> furanone (renewtrient)

>> >> > have the same effects and work through the same

>> >> mechanism as GHB.

>> >>

>> >> It's not a professional opinion but from what I hear

>> >> the furanone stuff is

>> >> potentially bad for the kidneys or liver.

>> >>

>> >> -gts

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> -

>> >>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >>

>> >>

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  • 2 months later...
Guest guest

Hi,

>Thought it was a no no to use in most states now

>HGH Drs liked it, patients were able to feel restorative sleep from it

>GBH produces it? or enchanes its mechanism ?

I think you are thinking of GHB = gamma-hydroxy-butyrate. That is the

illegal knock-out drug. It is chemically closely related to butyrate, but

not converted that way in the body.

I don't know what effects GHB would have on sleep quality.

Butyrate is used by the body as a signalling mechanism. I was in a lab that

was working on its mechanism - (rather non-specific activator of many genes,

acting directly in the nucleus). It takes pretty high levels to get these

effects unless the generation is targetted, rather like a neurotransmitter.

I suspect that blood butyrate levels are actually reading what has 'leaked'

into the blood rather than what is being actively used - but those would be

correlated, at least in a healthy person.

Jerry

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  • 2 months later...
Guest guest

In a message dated 06.29.2000 09:31:00 W. Europe Daylight Time,

longevityegroups writes:

<< Unfortunately, GHB is illegal in the

US even though there are much more dangerous drugs (which GHB is not) in

public distribution. It is used extensively in Europe. >>

Greetings from Paris -

I live in Europe, do you by chance happen to know a source for GHB in Europe?

Is it available only through prescriptions?

Thank you!

MJ

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  • 1 year later...
Guest guest

As with all other deaths associated with performance

enhancers or supplements I am not interested so much in

information that they found " x drug " in the system of the

deceased but was " x drug " the cause of the death? What

other drugs were present? Was there a pre-existing

condition? Deaths with " x drug " in the system, especially

only 68 of them are VERY suspicious to me. There are so

many other factors. These deaths are not catagorized for

example. Maybe some of them were caused by being hit by a

bus etc.

Until a comprehensive stusy is done on " drugs " such as GHB

and Ephedra it is basically anecdotal evidence at best.

Liedel

Ann Arbor, MI

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bigbud3@... wrote:

<< ** From a VERY comprehensive review:

" Fatalities have been associated with GHB use. [157, 222, 245-247] The

DEA has collected inves-tigative, toxicology, and autopsy reports from

cases in which GHB was found in biological samples of the deceased.

Since 1990, the DEA reports that they are aware of 68 deaths

associated with the use of GHB, most of which have occurred in the

last 4 years "

>>

Seeing as GHB is a naturally occuring substance (within all living things),

it's like saying " blood was found in biological samples of the deceased " .

You could change blood for " water " , " bone " , " liver " , " kidney " etc, etc. Now

i'm no doctor, but I'd have thought anyone would have seen the flaws in that

study!!!

Simon Pitt

B'Ham

England

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bigbud3@... wrote:

<< ** From a VERY comprehensive review:

" Fatalities have been associated with GHB use. [157, 222, 245-247] The

DEA has collected inves-tigative, toxicology, and autopsy reports from

cases in which GHB was found in biological samples of the deceased.

Since 1990, the DEA reports that they are aware of 68 deaths

associated with the use of GHB, most of which have occurred in the

last 4 years "

>>

Seeing as GHB is a naturally occuring substance (within all living things),

it's like saying " blood was found in biological samples of the deceased " .

You could change blood for " water " , " bone " , " liver " , " kidney " etc, etc. Now

i'm no doctor, but I'd have thought anyone would have seen the flaws in that

study!!!

Simon Pitt

B'Ham

England

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Guest guest

>

> Seeing as GHB is a naturally occuring substance (within all living

things),

> it's like saying " blood was found in biological samples of the

deceased " .

> You could change blood for " water " , " bone " , " liver " , " kidney " etc,

etc. Now

> i'm no doctor, but I'd have thought anyone would have seen the flaws

in that

> study!!!

If you would have followed the link that was provided and read the

entire study you would have seen that this was discussed in great

detail. Unfortunately many people find it easier to remain uneducated.

Partial information is very often misleading. That is why it is worth

the effort to read a complete study not just a synopsis.

Harvey Maron, M.D.

Steamboat Springs, CO

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Guest guest

>

> Seeing as GHB is a naturally occuring substance (within all living

things),

> it's like saying " blood was found in biological samples of the

deceased " .

> You could change blood for " water " , " bone " , " liver " , " kidney " etc,

etc. Now

> i'm no doctor, but I'd have thought anyone would have seen the flaws

in that

> study!!!

If you would have followed the link that was provided and read the

entire study you would have seen that this was discussed in great

detail. Unfortunately many people find it easier to remain uneducated.

Partial information is very often misleading. That is why it is worth

the effort to read a complete study not just a synopsis.

Harvey Maron, M.D.

Steamboat Springs, CO

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Guest guest

>

> Seeing as GHB is a naturally occuring substance (within all living

things),

> it's like saying " blood was found in biological samples of the

deceased " .

> You could change blood for " water " , " bone " , " liver " , " kidney " etc,

etc. Now

> i'm no doctor, but I'd have thought anyone would have seen the flaws

in that

> study!!!

If you would have followed the link that was provided and read the

entire study you would have seen that this was discussed in great

detail. Unfortunately many people find it easier to remain uneducated.

Partial information is very often misleading. That is why it is worth

the effort to read a complete study not just a synopsis.

Harvey Maron, M.D.

Steamboat Springs, CO

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