Re: Notan/Cindi

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In a message dated 10/15/2004 2:17:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jpearse@... writes:

O Cross that liftest up my head,

I lay in dust life’s glory dead,

And from the ground there blossoms red,

Life that shall endless be.

Matheson 1842

Thank you both !

Love,

Joan

Joan, Notan, and Cindi,

These posts have been inspirational to me.

They give me hope, and help my weary soul.

Jan from Northern KY

[Guest guest]

Thanks you guys - how I appreciate being able to talk like this.! I was taught that anything other than blind faith was a sin. But I could not help questioning, and got into lots of trouble for it !! I believe that God gave us brains and intelligence to use, to question and to eventually come to an understanding. I will probably never be a conventional church goer because of that. Looking at it now - you are right Notan, I did not really loose faith, just gave up trying to understand and a grudging, hurt, kind of acceptance - I suppose handing over the problem really.. Now of course I see the pattern and know that His purpose was good even if I had to suffer - good will come of it.

This hymn is the inspiration for my life :

O Love that wilt not let me go,

I rest my weary soul in Thee;

I give Thee back the life I owe,

That in Thine ocean depths its flow

May richer, fuller be.

O Light that followest all my way,

I yield my flickering torch to Thee;

My heart restores its borrowed ray,

That in Thine sunshine’s blaze its day,

May brighter, fairer be.

O Joy that seakest me through pain,

I cannot close my heart to Thee;

I trace the rainbow through the rain

And feel the promise is not vain,

That morn shall tearless be.

O Cross that liftest up my head,

I lay in dust life’s glory dead,

And from the ground there blossoms red,

Life that shall endless be.

Matheson 1842

Thank you both !

Love,

Joan

Notan/Joan

You guys are awesome. I learn so much from you. I just told a friendtoday that there is not ONE area of my life that is WORSE now than a yearago. Everything is better. Beginning a year ago, I entered a VERY, VERYdark time in my life. Only about 2 weeks ago I realized "I feel soooodifferent....it is because I have so much less stress than even a month ago" I won't go into the details, you know some, but suffice it to say, justabout everything in my life was "crashing"....except, fortunately, mymarriage and my faith. A year ago, I read this and I firmly believe the Lord gave this passage tome:"The poor and needy search for water, but there is none; their tongues areparched with thirst. But I the Lord will answer them....I will make riversflow on barren heights and springs within the valleys. I will turn thedesert into pools of water, and the parched ground into springs. I will putin the desert the cedar and the acacia, the myrtle and the olive. I willset pines in the wasteland, the fir and the cypress together, so that peoplemay see and know, may consider and understand, THAT THE HAND OF THE LORD HASDONE THIS..." Is. 41:17-20That was my promise....things would get better. And they have in SOOO MANYWAYS. And as Notan referred to....I wouldn't change a thing (not realinterested in going through it again, though!), I have learned & grown somuch and I have found who my true friends and support systems are. I amglad for all the trials...even for the time when I began to feel I waslosing my faith, but went forward blindly in obedience. I'm even gratefulfor my achalasia. Would I prefer not to have it? Well, maybe I wouldprefer being able to be CURED, but then again, it is part of who I am and itis OK. LOVE YOU GUYS! Cindi

[Guest guest]

Joan wrote:

.... I

was taught that anything other than blind faith was a sin. But I could

not help questioning, ...

For years my favorite verse has been 33:3.

It shows me that even in our darkest times and deepest doubt that God

will hear us and show us the promise of light, and restoration, even

though the truth of it may then be to hard to believe. Because of

something deep inside us we wait for the light and the restoration, even

though it seems like the darkness will never end.

This is also the way we encourage each other. Even thought we know a

person may have a hard time believing us that there is light and

restoration to come, we tell them to hang on and wait for it, that they

will be glad in the end. We don't hold their doubts against them, if our

own hearts are good.

I leave it to you to read the verse in context, but here is a poem about

it, and while it could be deeper it does capture some of what I have

tried to say.

http://www.praise4thee.com/gods-gifted/anne-wampler/poetry/jeremiah_33-3.htm

I like this part:

Do not lose hope.

For though the vision delay or tarry,

wait expectantly

for it will come.

There is also Psalm 119:99

I have more understanding than all my

teachers...

Teachers tend to count it as doubt when

one goes beyond them, but what is one person's doubt is another's

meditation.

....I will probably never be a

conventional church goer...

;-)

Not your average pew sitter (though I sometimes wish I was),

notan

[Guest guest]

Jan wrote:

These posts have been

inspirational to me.

They give me hope, and help my weary soul.

Oddly enough, yesterday I was in my first day of

class for chronic disease patients. It was being put on by teachers from

my insurance company and my doctor suggested I should attend. I think he

sees my future as being very discouraging unless I make some major

changes and get my mind ready to deal with it. But, that is another

story. They were going over a list of methods to deal with the problems

of living with chronic diseases. The last two topics in the list were

prayer and meditation. They said they would not be teaching how to do

those methods, because techniques are two personal, but that those

methods can be, for those that practice them, the most powerful and

effective methods.

I know these things are not everyone's cup of tea but, as long as the

discussions are such that they help people deal with achalasia and

problems like depression that go with it, we should help people use these

powerful methods and help them overcome things that may hinder there use

of them, like loss of faith.

Feel the power,

notan

[Guest guest]

Notan wrote

Not your average pew sitter (though I sometimes wish I was),

Life would be so simple and cut and dried if one was !

I used to find a great comfort in the Book of Job. I felt like cheering him for complaining so much - heck he had every reason to be bitter. It somehow made my questioning OK. I still think he was jolly hard done by and for what - just to satisfy a wager between God and the Devil ! But yes his life did change and things did work out for him in the end. I still cannot reconcile myself to the wrathful God of my childhood and just know instinctively that the God of Love is far more real.

I am familiar with that part of but have not read it for ages - so will refresh my memory. The poem is beautiful !

Joan

Re: Notan/Cindi

Joan wrote:

.... I was taught that anything other than blind faith was a sin. But I could not help questioning, ...For years my favorite verse has been 33:3. It shows me that even in our darkest times and deepest doubt that God will hear us and show us the promise of light, and restoration, even though the truth of it may then be to hard to believe. Because of something deep inside us we wait for the light and the restoration, even though it seems like the darkness will never end. This is also the way we encourage each other. Even thought we know a person may have a hard time believing us that there is light and restoration to come, we tell them to hang on and wait for it, that they will be glad in the end. We don't hold their doubts against them, if our own hearts are good.I leave it to you to read the verse in context, but here is a poem about it, and while it could be deeper it does capture some of what I have tried to say.http://www.praise4thee.com/gods-gifted/anne-wampler/poetry/jeremiah_33-3.htmI like this part:

Do not lose hope. For though the vision delay or tarry, wait expectantly for it will come.There is also Psalm 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers...Teachers tend to count it as doubt when one goes beyond them, but what is one person's doubt is another's meditation. ...I will probably never be a conventional church goer...;-)notan

[Guest guest]

I could not agree more Notan. Positive affirmation and prayer is a very powerful way to deal with depression and it worked for me for a long time. I came unstuck when it was not my health only that needed change but circumstances beyond my control and in the hands of others.

I have never been able to meditate - I just cannot concentrate for long enough - the mind wanders so easily!

Sure this is not everyone cup of tea, but they can just ignore our chatter anyway. They have control of the delete button.

This affirmation / prayer has been a great help:

" The living Christ lift's me into his healing peace...

My mind and body are alive with healing peace...

All my needs are directed toward divine adjustment...

God is greater than my greatest needs"

It has always helped to ease the panic and give me hope.

Joan

Re: Notan/Cindi

Jan wrote:

These posts have been inspirational to me.They give me hope, and help my weary soul.Oddly enough, yesterday I was in my first day of class for chronic disease patients. It was being put on by teachers from my insurance company and my doctor suggested I should attend. I think he sees my future as being very discouraging unless I make some major changes and get my mind ready to deal with it. But, that is another story. They were going over a list of methods to deal with the problems of living with chronic diseases. The last two topics in the list were prayer and meditation. They said they would not be teaching how to do those methods, because techniques are two personal, but that those methods can be, for those that practice them, the most powerful and effective methods. I know these things are not everyone's cup of tea but, as long as the discussions are such that they help people deal with achalasia and problems like depression that go with it, we should help people use these powerful methods and help them overcome things that may hinder there use of them, like loss of faith.Feel the power,notan

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/15/2004 7:14:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hastings@... writes:

I know these things are not everyone's cup of tea but, as long as the discussions are such that they help people deal with achalasia and problems like depression that go with it, we should help people use these powerful methods and help them overcome things that may hinder there use of them, like loss of faith.Feel the power,notan

Notan,

I thought twice about responding to this post, because I don't feel like I have anything significant to add to what you wrote.

But I felt I needed to acknowledge what you wrote and affirm this philosophy.

It is a belief of the strength that is deep inside all of us, and around us, if we can only reach out for it.

Jan