Re: cell mediated immunity

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I would also like to know how you do it. I have my humoral and cell-mediated

immunity measured twice a week. I must go to another town, I must be there

at a certain time, they take my blood sample and must process it within an

hour. The results are sent to my DR (immunologist).

-----Pùvodní zpráva-----

Od: rhbailey@... <rhbailey@...>

Komu: CFSFMexperimentalonelist <CFSFMexperimentalonelist>

Datum: 22. bøezna 1999 1:40

Pøedmìt: cell mediated immunity

>From: rhbailey@...

>

>Patti wrote, " I measure my cell-mediated immunity (CMI) every week... "

>

>Patti, how do you do that? Where did you hear about doing it? Is it

>dangerous? Is it something your doctor prescribed? I know that people with

>AIDS do it, but I never before heard of anyone with CFIDS doing it.

>

>Does anyone else do it?

>

>Sue

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Sorry, it's me again. I wanted to say twice a year! Stania

-----Pùvodní zpráva-----

Od: Mužiková Stanislava <stanislava.muzikova@...>

Komu: onelist <onelist>

Datum: 22. bøezna 1999 6:55

Pøedmìt: Re: cell mediated immunity

>From: " =?iso-8859-1?B?TXWeaWtvduEgU3RhbmlzbGF2YQ==?= "

<stanislava.muzikova@...>

>

>Hi,

>I would also like to know how you do it. I have my humoral and

cell-mediated

>immunity measured twice a week. I must go to another town, I must be there

>at a certain time, they take my blood sample and must process it within an

>hour. The results are sent to my DR (immunologist).

>-----Pùvodní zpráva-----

>Od: rhbailey@... <rhbailey@...>

>Komu: CFSFMexperimentalonelist <CFSFMexperimentalonelist>

>Datum: 22. bøezna 1999 1:40

>Pøedmìt: cell mediated immunity

>

>

>>From: rhbailey@...

>>

>>Patti wrote, " I measure my cell-mediated immunity (CMI) every week... "

>>

>>Patti, how do you do that? Where did you hear about doing it? Is it

>>dangerous? Is it something your doctor prescribed? I know that people with

>>AIDS do it, but I never before heard of anyone with CFIDS doing it.

>>

>>Does anyone else do it?

>>

>>Sue

>>

>>

>>

>>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist?

>>

>>Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest

>>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

>other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

>discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>>

>

>

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>

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>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

stanislava wrote:

Hi, I would also like to know how you do it. I have my humoral and

cell-mediated

immunity measured twice a week. I must go to another town, I must be there

at a certain time, they take my blood sample and must process it within an

hour. The results are sent to my DR (immunologist).

-------------

stanislava, we in the united states are still trying to get most doctors

to even understand this concept. i would be grateful if i had a clinic

that even agreed to it once a month. considering nashville has over a

million folks in its metropolitan area - it is hard to believe there is

no one who understands and regularly tests cmi/humoral difference in cfids.

for all our WEALTH as a nation, you are actually in better shape as

far as your doctors understanding this as well as they appear to. money

does not equal heart or decent care when the bottom line of $$ rules.

nancy mcfadden

[Guest guest]

03/21/1999 rhbailey@... wrote:

Patti wrote, " I measure my cell-mediated immunity (CMI) every week... "

Patti, how do you do that? Where did you hear about doing it? Is it

dangerous? Is it something your doctor prescribed? I know that people with

AIDS do it, but I never before heard of anyone with CFIDS doing it.

Does anyone else do it? Sue

sue, there is a ton written about this at the keep hope alive website,

both the DTH test that can be done by the doctor's office and the

skin test that can be done with a skin sensitizing chemical.

i am contemplating this myself, not yet doing. nancym

[Guest guest]

From: Judith Wisdom <wisdom@...>

>

>At the risk of sounding naive, what I'd like to know about finding out

>one's cell mediated immunity level, is what use does it have either to our

>understanding of our disease or to guiding treatment? Has it been found,

>in those who have been able to have it done, to be related to level of

>symptom expression--i.e., being, say, higher or lower when we feel worse?

===========

lots and lots on the subject. and yes, it CAN HELP TREATMENT for at least

a significant subset of cfidsers. look at the keep hope alive post i wrote

this week, get issue 18 off the web and read it. it explains it all to you.

web page was in the post.

nancy mcfadden

nashville

[Guest guest]

At the risk of sounding naive, what I'd like to know about finding out

one's cell mediated immunity level, is what use does it have either to our

understanding of our disease or to guiding treatment? Has it been found,

in those who have been able to have it done, to be related to level of

symptom expression--i.e., being, say, higher or lower when we feel worse?

[Guest guest]

>

> From: " G. McFadden " <nmcfadden@...>

>

> 03/21/1999 rhbailey@... wrote:

> Patti wrote, " I measure my cell-mediated immunity (CMI) every week... "

>

> Patti, how do you do that?

I use DNCB

> Where did you hear about doing it?

From Mark Konlee's newsletters at " Keep Hope Alive "

(http://www.execpc.com/~keephope/)

> Is it dangerous?

It can be if you don't use it correctly. DNCB is very similar to

poison ivy. So if you apply too much and get too great a reaction

(poison ivy-type) and scratch too much with dirty fingernails

you can get an infection. If you follow instructions it is not

dangerous at all. I've been using it for about 4-5 months without

any problems.

> Is it something your doctor prescribed?

No, you can buy it OTC from AIDS groups. I bought my kit from

an AIDS group in california. The kit costs about $25. It is

used alot in research to determine the CMI level of lab animals.

When researchers want to give cancer to an animal for tests, they

destroy their CMI first, and they measure with DNCB first to make

sure their CMI is dead, then they give them the cancer they want

and continue with their experiment. If you want a real eye-opener,

got to Medline and do a search for DNCB.

> I know that people with

> AIDS do it, but I never before heard of anyone with CFIDS doing it.

> Does anyone else do it?

As far as I know, I'm the only one with CFIDS who is using it. When

I first started my CMI (cell-mediated immunity) level was unmeasurable.

Without CMI your body has *NONE, NADA, ZIP, BUTKIS* protection against

cancer, I believe that elevating CMI is of *PRIMARY* importance since

I don't want to have cancer *in addition* to CFIDS. Since my doc

refused to perscribe Multitest, and since one of my primary goals

is to increase CMI I turned to DNCB. Mark has detailed directions

for using DNCB in one of his newsletters and in his book. DNCB has

the benefit of not only measuring CMI, but also stimulating NK (natural

Killer cells) into action (somewhat).

DNCB only gives you " relative " CMI strength. I wanted a real comparison

so I had my doc run a NK function test. With this test the lab

puts your NK cells in a dish with actual cancer cells and counts

how many cancer cells each of your NK cells " eats up " . People with

normal CMI, their NK cells will eat about 150 cancer cells each. People

who are able to become HIV negative (after full-blown AIDs) have

NK function of about 300 (their NK cells eat 300 cancer cells). Mine

ate only 6 and this was after 2 months of CMI-building activities

(as outlined in Mark's newsletters). Before I started any of Mark's

protocols I did not react to the strongest application of DNCB.

After using Mark's protocols I started reacting to a 2% solution

and this is when I had my NK function tested and my NK cells only

ate 6 cancer cells. Since then I've gotten stronger CMI and

I now react to a .2% solution. My goal is to react to a .02%

solution, but I seem " stuck " at .2% I *assume* that since I

react to a 10x weaker solution of DNCB that my CMI is 10x stronger

and my NK function is probably 6 X 10 or 60. I don't have the

money to test this theory. (the NK function test is ~$300)

Since most cancers grow in the body for about 5 years before they

become detectable, I consider it one of my major priorities to

raise my CMI. This is why I measure so often. After every

change in protocol I measure my CMI (with DNCB) so I can tell

if a supplement is raising or lowering my CMI. If it lowers

my CMI I stop taking it.

For example, I took that multi-level product " RELIV " which is

" guaranteed " to raise your immune system. While taking

RELIV, my CMI went way down to almost where I started. WIthin

a week of getting off RELIV, my CMI bounced back to pre-RELIV

levels. In this way, I *know* without a doubt that RELIV

actually depressed my CMI and I asked for my money back.

> sue, there is a ton written about this at the keep hope alive website,

> both the DTH test that can be done by the doctor's office and the

> skin test that can be done with a skin sensitizing chemical.

> i am contemplating this myself, not yet doing. nancym

The " Act Up " group (an AIDS activist group) published something

called " The DNCB file " that is a compilation of research and

articles about DNCB.

Also I will post a bit about the action of DNCB in next post.

Patti