Re: Grit your teeth before reading! This is the limit!!! (OT4VAX)

[Guest guest]

LOL. what studies. I am not even going to read this article.

a.

)

I am not going to say a single word - I want to go to sleep tonight!!!

Love, light and peace,

Sue

" Do not judge your neighbour until you walk two moons in his moccasins " -

Cheyenne proverb

-----------------------------------------------------

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2684951.stm

First week feeds 'set babies' sleep patterns'

Frequent feeding during the first week of a baby's life can stop them

sleeping through the night months later, researchers have found.

If a baby is fed more than 11 times during a 24 hour period, it is three

times less likely to sleep through at 12 weeks of age.

Researchers found that where mothers adhered to a behavioural programme

where a clear difference was made between day and night, and where

night-feeds and cuddles were avoided, babies were much more likely to sleep

well.

Two thirds of babies can sleep through the night - at least five hours

continuous sleep - by the age of 12 weeks.

But sleep problems can cause considerable distress for parents and babies.

Researchers from the University of London studied 600 babies from one to 12

weeks of age to see what factors influenced whether or not they would sleep

through the night.

Parents were either put on the behavioural programme, given an educational

booklet and helpline access for sleeping problems or neither.

Under the programme, in addition to differentiating between day and night,

parents were told to settle a sleepy baby in a cot and avoid cuddling or

feeding the child to sleep at night.

At three weeks of age, if the baby was healthy and putting on weight,

parents were told to delay feeding when it woke at night by handling it or

changing its nappy first.

Mothers kept behaviour diaries for 72 hour periods when their babies were

three, six, nine and 12 weeks of age.

By 12 weeks 82% of babies which had been most frequently fed at one week

old, so-called " at risk " babies, on the behavioural programme slept through

the night compared with 61% of " at risk " babies not on the programme.

Findings were similar for both breast and bottle-fed babies.

The research is published in the journal Archives of Diseases in Childhood.

The researchers, led by Dr Ian St -, writing in the journal,

said whether the behavioural programme should be routinely adopted involved

balancing costs against benefits.

They said that a baby who did not sleep though the night was not ill, and

parents' culture and values influenced feelings on sleeping patterns.

But they added: " Many Western parents find infant and child night waking to

be a source of substantial stress, both for themselves and their

relationships with their children.

" Where babies feed often at one week of age, and having their baby sleep

through the night at 12 weeks of age is a parental priority, health services

may wish to consider whether the behavioural programme can be recommended to

help parents bring this about. "

But Rosie Dodds, policy advisor for the National Childbirth Trust, told BBC

News Online: " This study says frequent feeding in the first week is a

significant factor in sleep patterns later on.

" But it doesn't say it's cause and effect. "

" A baby may simply be more needy. Their personality, or the way they were

born may mean they demand feeds more frequently.

" Or it could be that the mother is happy to feed her baby 11 times or more

in the first week. "

[Guest guest]

Researchers found that where mothers adhered to a behavioural programme

where a clear difference was made between day and night, and where

night-feeds and cuddles were avoided, babies were much more likely to sleep

well.

I think I bit my tongue .......... what a bunch of idiots... so, what? if they

are hungry, we're supposed to just ......... programme them?

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh slept through at 8 weeks, Chase was 2.5 ... I really

don't think it has anything to do with programming... bunch of jerks.

in iL

[Guest guest]

Researchers found that where mothers adhered to a behavioural programme

where a clear difference was made between day and night, and where

night-feeds and cuddles were avoided, babies were much more likely to sleep

well.

One more thing....... this just screams ezzo ..... did he pay for this? LOL

[Guest guest]

I immediately thought Ezzo myself! I can't believe anyone would endorse any

program similar to babywise after all the deaths and cases of RAD he has caused!

Kristi

Re: Grit your teeth before reading! This is the

limit!!! (OT4VAX)

Researchers found that where mothers adhered to a behavioural programme

where a clear difference was made between day and night, and where

night-feeds and cuddles were avoided, babies were much more likely to sleep

well.

One more thing....... this just screams ezzo ..... did he pay for this? LOL

[Guest guest]

" I immediately thought Ezzo myself! I can't believe anyone would endorse any

program similar to babywise after all the deaths and cases of RAD he has

caused! "

Hello! What is RAD? I don't use the babywise program; I feed my babies when

they want it (the breast!) morning, noon, evening, night! I nurse them to sleep,

when they wake, when they cry, whenever they want it! I don't think I'm crazy!

It's natural! Having said this, I don't completely understand what is wrong

with the babywise program. My sister uses it and seems to be doing fine. Does

this program endorse " not cuddling " and other strange things like that? Can

anyone direct me to articles discussing the negative side of " babywise " and the

like?

Thanks,

Kerra

" and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the

love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them. " -Yochanan ()

17:26

--- message from " akhdtdevo " <akhdtdevo@...> attached:

_____________________________________________________________

Get free web based email---> http://www.praiseyahweh.com/

[Guest guest]

What is RAD?

I'm guessing she's talking about reactive airway disease, but I can't be totally

sure of this ....... it's infantile asthma, or " pre-asthma " basically doctors

don't like to use the word asthma until a child is 3.

Babywise as far as I can tell is TOTAL schedule. It's neglectful to an infant,

especially a newborn. It teaches parents that babies are manipulative and

should be told when to eat, drink, poop, and sleep. You shouldn't cuddle them

to sleep, I think it goes as far as to say that CIO is perfectly fine with a

newborn .......... UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH If someone gave me the book, I would

probably use it to line hamster's cage.

here's a pretty good description...

Basic premises include that parents should be in control and that the husband

and wife relationship should be " the priority relationship " in the family, and

that children should be " welcome members " of the family but not at the center of

the family. Ezzo has developed certain rigid ways of applying those principles:

for example he advocates a feeding schedule for babies--this advances the

principle of the parent being in control and the principle of keeping the baby

from experiencing himself as being the center of the family universe--ie, when

he demands food, he doesn't get it. This is why Ezzo condemns demand feeding.

Babywise is similarly undergirded by those principles but the chief selling

point is " get your baby to sleep through the night by 8 weeks " and many parents

just skim through the book to get the " recipe " for that. Ezzo believes the

feeding schedule is the key that does it. Unfortunately, the feeding schedule

has not been demonstrated to be safe, and scheduled feedings have been warned

against by the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Another Ezzo distinctive: parents are to practice daily " couch time " --when the

husband comes home from work, he tells the children to wait, that he is going to

spend 15 minutes talking with his wife on the couch while the children are

nearby playing quietly and appreciating the good relationship between their

parents. This is designed to uphold the principle of the husband/wife

relationship being the " priority relationship " as Ezzo puts it. Ezzo believes

that many common childhood issues can be resolved when parents are regular with

their " couch times " .

Another Ezzo distinctive is that babies should have " playpen time " and young

children should have " room time " for scheduled periods each day. This should

occur in a separate room from mom, and if the baby cries, it should not bring

his mother to the rescue. When the prescribed time is up, *then* the mother

retrieves the child from roomtime or the baby from playpen time. This is an

application of the principle of parents being in control, and demonstrates to

the child that he or she is not the center of the family. Ezzo believes that

this regimen also benefits children's intellectual and creative abilities.

For older ages, Ezzo stands up for good old-fashioned etiquette but tends to

overblows it into a matter of morality--for example he makes using the terms

Mr/Mrs into an issue of morality; or making a bashful child respond to a

stranger's greeting into a matter of morality.

Overall, Ezzo loses sight of age appropriateness and is not very aware of basic

child development.

On the good side, however, parents in his class do become exposed to a forceful

presentation of the importance of teaching good old fashioned good behavior and

good manners, and teaching those should be part of bringing up children.

In addition to controversy over the content of Ezzo's books, there is also

controversy over Ezzo's lack of accountability and good old fashioned BAD

behavior. The church that helped him launch his materials has disavowed all

connection with him, and he left that church and 2 other churches under a

cloud--one church excommunicated him, the other church forced him to step down

from his position. His Babywise publisher, Multnomah, dropped him following an

investigation of alleged medical misinformation and character problems. Babywise

is now self-published.

But to also add to the forceful presentation of teaching good behavior and good

manners....... I fed my babies on demand, they slept with me when they needed

to (my oldest off and on til he was 4 ) .... by the time they were 2, they had

to say please to get something and thank you to keep it .... I don't think

that's too harsh or asking too much ... If a child can say " give me milk " that

same child can say " please " ........... rude kids tick me off ... I have a

nephew that has never said the word please in his life, (among other things) I

can't stand to be in the same room with him ........ sad huh?

anyhoo, I think this is probably long enough, but this guy is wacky, imho

[Guest guest]

Reactive Attachment Disorder

LOL .... I figured it was the other for lack of promoting breastfeeding... see?

what the hell do I know?????????? ROFL

[Guest guest]

The limit is right! This is child abuse!

Sherri

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 00:22:31 -0000 " Sue " <angelmouse@...> writes:

> I am not going to say a single word - I want to go to sleep

> tonight!!!

>

> Love, light and peace,

>

> Sue

>

> " Do not judge your neighbour until you walk two moons in his

> moccasins " -

> Cheyenne proverb

>

> -----------------------------------------------------

>

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2684951.stm

>

> First week feeds 'set babies' sleep patterns'

>

> Frequent feeding during the first week of a baby's life can stop

> them

> sleeping through the night months later, researchers have found.

> If a baby is fed more than 11 times during a 24 hour period, it is

> three

> times less likely to sleep through at 12 weeks of age.

>

> Researchers found that where mothers adhered to a behavioural

> programme

> where a clear difference was made between day and night, and where

> night-feeds and cuddles were avoided, babies were much more likely

> to sleep

> well.

>

> Two thirds of babies can sleep through the night - at least five

> hours

> continuous sleep - by the age of 12 weeks.

>

> But sleep problems can cause considerable distress for parents and

> babies.

>

> Researchers from the University of London studied 600 babies from

> one to 12

> weeks of age to see what factors influenced whether or not they

> would sleep

> through the night.

>

> Parents were either put on the behavioural programme, given an

> educational

> booklet and helpline access for sleeping problems or neither.

>

> Under the programme, in addition to differentiating between day and

> night,

> parents were told to settle a sleepy baby in a cot and avoid

> cuddling or

> feeding the child to sleep at night.

>

> At three weeks of age, if the baby was healthy and putting on

> weight,

> parents were told to delay feeding when it woke at night by handling

> it or

> changing its nappy first.

>

> Mothers kept behaviour diaries for 72 hour periods when their babies

> were

> three, six, nine and 12 weeks of age.

>

> By 12 weeks 82% of babies which had been most frequently fed at one

> week

> old, so-called " at risk " babies, on the behavioural programme slept

> through

> the night compared with 61% of " at risk " babies not on the

> programme.

>

> Findings were similar for both breast and bottle-fed babies.

>

> The research is published in the journal Archives of Diseases in

> Childhood.

>

> The researchers, led by Dr Ian St -, writing in the

> journal,

> said whether the behavioural programme should be routinely adopted

> involved

> balancing costs against benefits.

>

> They said that a baby who did not sleep though the night was not

> ill, and

> parents' culture and values influenced feelings on sleeping

> patterns.

>

> But they added: " Many Western parents find infant and child night

> waking to

> be a source of substantial stress, both for themselves and their

> relationships with their children.

>

> " Where babies feed often at one week of age, and having their baby

> sleep

> through the night at 12 weeks of age is a parental priority, health

> services

> may wish to consider whether the behavioural programme can be

> recommended to

> help parents bring this about. "

>

> But Rosie Dodds, policy advisor for the National Childbirth Trust,

> told BBC

> News Online: " This study says frequent feeding in the first week is

> a

> significant factor in sleep patterns later on.

>

> " But it doesn't say it's cause and effect. "

>

> " A baby may simply be more needy. Their personality, or the way they

> were

> born may mean they demand feeds more frequently.

>

> " Or it could be that the mother is happy to feed her baby 11 times

> or more

> in the first week. "

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here is a good one...

http://ezzo.info/

Here is an article by Dr Sears about the program

http://www.mothering.com/9-0-0/html/9-5-0/9-5-trainup93.shtml

http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/9108.html

http://home.earthlink.net/~tnk/littleones/babywisealert.html

RAD is Reactive Attachment Disorder. It is caused by the lack of interaction by

caregivers- once a child develops this disorder, they are no longer able to form

a bond with anyone- ever. It is very serious. Maybe you have heard of it in

connection with foreign orphans? Basically in a nutshell, the baby is left to

cry until it surrenders its will and realizes that no one is ever going to come

and attend to it, and begins to mentally prepare for death. Even if that baby

survives, it will never trust another person, not even as an adult. Very very

sad. This book has been banned in certain counties, one being Orange County, CA

because of the infant deaths that it caused. It also causes failure to thrive,

and infant dehydration.

Kristi

Re: Grit your teeth before reading! This is the

limit!!! (OT4VAX)

" I immediately thought Ezzo myself! I can't believe anyone would endorse any

program similar to babywise after all the deaths and cases of RAD he has

caused! "

Hello! What is RAD? I don't use the babywise program; I feed my babies when

they want it (the breast!) morning, noon, evening, night! I nurse them to sleep,

when they wake, when they cry, whenever they want it! I don't think I'm crazy!

It's natural! Having said this, I don't completely understand what is wrong

with the babywise program. My sister uses it and seems to be doing fine. Does

this program endorse " not cuddling " and other strange things like that? Can

anyone direct me to articles discussing the negative side of " babywise " and the

like?

Thanks,

Kerra

" and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the

love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them. " -Yochanan ()

17:26

--- message from " akhdtdevo " <akhdtdevo@...> attached:

_____________________________________________________________

Get free web based email---> http://www.praiseyahweh.com/

[Guest guest]

I flunk their program. I waited ten years to become a mom. I hold and

hug my kids all the time and have since we first adopted them. This is

nuts!

in NC

[Guest guest]

Hello, I think I need to introduce myself (mom of two, went through the

vaccinations wars mostly 10-15 years ago, kids have really never seen a

doctor other than for routine paperwork requirements and a few stitches)

before I post, but I had a TERRIBLE time with Headstart in small town New

Hampshire back about 10-12 years ago.

They did help me by getting my drinking water tested (and I never drank

*that* again)

but other than that, sheesh...there are too many stories to get into now,

but it was bad.

It took years for my kid to get past a hate of school and rules because of

that experience. I was the only mother, apparently, who would not give her

kid Ritalin to make him become compliant with irrational rules. The

teachers were all addicted to diet Pepsi which I would see left all over the

school room...I am sure the kids had access to it...and when my boy started

developing seizures and blackouts when in his states of rage, well, I could

not prove it was the aspartame...but they wanted him to be given drugs.

He witnessed a screaming fight between me and his teacher and her husband,

out in my front year (I had bought tires at her father's yardsale, and they

wanted them back), which escalated in scale when I confronted the actual

seller of those tires. When he got his *school* pictures, he cut the group

picture right up and threw it in the trash. All his artworks came to be

scribbles in black.

You would think I would pull him out of this. Well, I did the day I was

subpoenaed to court in a city an hour away as a witness in a child custody

case. All my " registered " baby sitters were either at work or in court

there too, so a friend came up from another state at 6:30 in the morning, so

I could introduce him to the busdriver and give her some improvised

paperwork so he could she would drop my son off at the house with him after

school. But, as the paperwork had not gone through all the official

channels, they would not send him home. When I called home during a court

break at 3, I was told he was not home, but at the local police station,

where he had been brought instead. Finally, I was outraged, and left court

(I had already testified), drove back to the police station and was told

that I could not have him back, as I was too angry and out of control....

Well, I got him back. And told the headstart *outreach worker* that,, as

that afternoon in jail was probably the highlight of his headstart

experience, it was best to leave him with that as his last experience with

it. Grrrrr.

The thing that really got me about all this is that I had helped to bring

headstart to my town. Although very poor and living like a hippie, I was a

town official, and was always involved with community actions. We were sold

a bill of goods, and were told that *we* (the parents) would make the

decisions on policies, teachers, etc...what a pile of crap. I never chose

that teacher (who should have been in therapy herself, and not working with

kids), any of those policies or anything else, though I attended every

single headstart meeting. I am sure that that head teacher is still there,

and still unable to talk to adults without looking at the floor. I bet the

kids coming out of there are all on Ritalin and end up spending extra years

adjusting to school.

I had a terrible time dealing with that program, but it could have been

worse. I could have lost my kid, I could have been cowered into letting him

take Ritalin. As it was, in order to let him drink soymilk there, I had to

go through hours of paperwork and a visit to a doctor to get a note okaying

it....and it still seemed to take months. I could have been one of the

other couple of dozen mothers who cowered to their demands and rules. I

could have been forced to move out of my cabin in the woods and into

subsidized housing in a nearby city.

But I said no...just as my child did. It was such a weird experience, too,

as the family contact person was calling me everyday telling me about her

problems, asking me about my knowledge of alternative treatments for her

health issues, which were actually quite serious, while *officially* calling

me for some other *official* reason. She became rather dependent upon me,

and I am sure she missed me more than my son missed that program once I

pulled him out.

Anyway, that is really the short version of my experience with headstart.

It was a horrible experience. My son has anger issues for about the next 5

years, in public school. With no exposure to diet sodas, he had no more

seizures. Now, in high school he amazes his teachers with his poise and his

knowledge...but it took an awful lot of work to overcome the bad effects of

his months at headstart,

Joanie

)

> I flunk their program. I waited ten years to become a mom. I hold and

> hug my kids all the time and have since we first adopted them. This is

> nuts!

>

> in NC

[Guest guest]

Wellll, at 1:00 this afternoon, Farmington Hospital (Connecticut) will have

their first takers for the smallpox vaccine, 15 people. Goodness help any

patients at that hospital over the next few months. Another hospital in

Mass (I forgot which one) was on the news last night stating that they met

over the subject for many hours, and came to the conclusion they were not

getting the fax, because of their concern over complications spread to their

patients. Good for them! That's were I'm going if I need to!

www.ChestnutHillCurlies.com

Grit your teeth before reading! This is the limit!!!

(OT4VAX)

> I am not going to say a single word - I want to go to sleep tonight!!!

>

> Love, light and peace,

>

> Sue

>

> " Do not judge your neighbour until you walk two moons in his moccasins " -

> Cheyenne proverb

>

> -----------------------------------------------------

>

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2684951.stm

>

> First week feeds 'set babies' sleep patterns'

>

> Frequent feeding during the first week of a baby's life can stop them

> sleeping through the night months later, researchers have found.

> If a baby is fed more than 11 times during a 24 hour period, it is three

> times less likely to sleep through at 12 weeks of age.

>

> Researchers found that where mothers adhered to a behavioural programme

> where a clear difference was made between day and night, and where

> night-feeds and cuddles were avoided, babies were much more likely to

sleep

> well.

>

> Two thirds of babies can sleep through the night - at least five hours

> continuous sleep - by the age of 12 weeks.

>

> But sleep problems can cause considerable distress for parents and babies.

>

> Researchers from the University of London studied 600 babies from one to

12

> weeks of age to see what factors influenced whether or not they would

sleep

> through the night.

>

> Parents were either put on the behavioural programme, given an educational

> booklet and helpline access for sleeping problems or neither.

>

> Under the programme, in addition to differentiating between day and night,

> parents were told to settle a sleepy baby in a cot and avoid cuddling or

> feeding the child to sleep at night.

>

> At three weeks of age, if the baby was healthy and putting on weight,

> parents were told to delay feeding when it woke at night by handling it or

> changing its nappy first.

>

> Mothers kept behaviour diaries for 72 hour periods when their babies were

> three, six, nine and 12 weeks of age.

>

> By 12 weeks 82% of babies which had been most frequently fed at one week

> old, so-called " at risk " babies, on the behavioural programme slept

through

> the night compared with 61% of " at risk " babies not on the programme.

>

> Findings were similar for both breast and bottle-fed babies.

>

> The research is published in the journal Archives of Diseases in

Childhood.

>

> The researchers, led by Dr Ian St -, writing in the journal,

> said whether the behavioural programme should be routinely adopted

involved

> balancing costs against benefits.

>

> They said that a baby who did not sleep though the night was not ill, and

> parents' culture and values influenced feelings on sleeping patterns.

>

> But they added: " Many Western parents find infant and child night waking

to

> be a source of substantial stress, both for themselves and their

> relationships with their children.

>

> " Where babies feed often at one week of age, and having their baby sleep

> through the night at 12 weeks of age is a parental priority, health

services

> may wish to consider whether the behavioural programme can be recommended

to

> help parents bring this about. "

>

> But Rosie Dodds, policy advisor for the National Childbirth Trust, told

BBC

> News Online: " This study says frequent feeding in the first week is a

> significant factor in sleep patterns later on.

>

> " But it doesn't say it's cause and effect. "

>

> " A baby may simply be more needy. Their personality, or the way they were

> born may mean they demand feeds more frequently.

>

> " Or it could be that the mother is happy to feed her baby 11 times or more

> in the first week. "

>

>

>

>

>