Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 Hi , There was a time when after my esphogectomy that I had dilations every week finally working up to every three months. I did this for about three years and never had scar tissue form as a result. I guess everyone is different. As far agent orange being the culprit I think because Dr's. don't know what causes achalasia they are quick to blame whatever comes along. Ed Interesting > Hello all, > > I had an intersting conversation with a 80 year young lady who is a > good friend of ours. I was expalining my " A " condition to her. Not > far into my explanation she jumped in and said her son has something > similar. She said he is a Vietnam Veteran and for years he has been > going to a Veterans hospital to get his esophagues stretched every > THREE months. Wow, can't imagine that. I am sure he has so much > scar tissue from the dilations that surgery would be out of the > question. She said it lasts about three months and he knows when its > time to get a stretching because when he is eating the food will get > stuck and he has to get up and walk around the house with an arched > back to get the food to drop (been there, done that). She said his > doctors told him that being in Vietnam and exposed to agent orange > may have caused the condition. > > Just thought I would pass along to what I thought was an > interesting conversation. > > Take care, > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2003 Report Share Posted August 31, 2003 Kay, You are absolutely right. Lynda Interesting I was doing a search on MSN today for Lane cedar chests (just dreaming!) : ) I came across a link that stated between 1977 and 1994, six children died by suffocation in Lane cedar chests resulting in a recall of all of their chest with the old locks. Now, I won't even begin to try and estimate the deaths and injuries between those years caused by vaccines... I know it's more than six! Yet the manufacturers and doctors can turn their heads and ignore what is right before there eyes. How terribly sad and disgusting... Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2005 Report Share Posted May 25, 2005 Let us know what else you find out. That is very interesting. So far my little ones are not on IVIG. The youngest is only 11 weeks old, so we do not know what is in store for him yet. Hopefully perfectly healthy. I had a condition in my pregnancy (unrelated to PID) for which I actually had IVIG weekly from 20 weeks until delivery. So, I guess I am interested for more than one reason. Thanks for the info, Pam (mom to age 3 1/2 - IGA defiecient, Asthma : Logan - age 11 weeks no problems yet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2005 Report Share Posted May 25, 2005 This does sound interesting but our immunologist said with IGG the kids need it from multiple donors to give them a collective immunity of many people, over 1,000 she said. I can see how his may go into the pool of donors for your child but I don't think it would be adequate to support your child's immune system alone. To make IGG it is a complicated process and takes many steps with many different donor's plasma. I wonder how they will specify that your husband's goes to your child's. Keep us updated on how they plan to do this. Thanks Amy interesting >Hi all, >Tonight we received a call from the American Red Cross, Tom is going to start donating plasma at out local ARC Pheresis center, they called to say that he will be able to donate to , this seems to be a new process they are starting. They will be calling tomorrow night with all the particulars, we use Polygam which is a Red Cross product. I will let you all know what they say tomorrow and how it works, so many friends and family ask if they can donate right to our kids, so this may be a way for them to help. If the ARC is starting this maybe others will follow suit. I just thought it was interesting. > mom to - CVID, asthma, GERD > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 I would also be interested in hearing more on how to start this. I contacted our local ARC here in Massachusetts and they are charging $90 per unit of blood collected to special collections. You need a doctor's note stated what type blood and for whom it is needed - then plasma is only good for 28 days. I don't think I know anyone who would spend $90 per unit to " donate " for my child when you consider how many people they pool together to get one dose of gammaglobulin. Any updated information you can send I would appreciate it. thanks, mary mom to hannah, 14, CVID, JRA, Lupus --- THOMAS RUSSO <rn4premies@...> wrote: > Hi all, > Tonight we received a call from the American Red Cross, Tom is going to > start donating plasma at out local ARC Pheresis center, they called to > say that he will be able to donate to , this seems to be a new > process they are starting. They will be calling tomorrow night with all > the particulars, we use Polygam which is a Red Cross product. I will let > you all know what they say tomorrow and how it works, so many friends > and family ask if they can donate right to our kids, so this may be a > way for them to help. If the ARC is starting this maybe others will > follow suit. I just thought it was interesting. > mom to - CVID, asthma, GERD > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 I would also be interested in hearing more on how to start this. I contacted our local ARC here in Massachusetts and they are charging $90 per unit of blood collected to special collections. You need a doctor's note stated what type blood and for whom it is needed - then plasma is only good for 28 days. I don't think I know anyone who would spend $90 per unit to " donate " for my child when you consider how many people they pool together to get one dose of gammaglobulin. Any updated information you can send I would appreciate it. thanks, mary mom to hannah, 14, CVID, JRA, Lupus --- THOMAS RUSSO <rn4premies@...> wrote: > Hi all, > Tonight we received a call from the American Red Cross, Tom is going to > start donating plasma at out local ARC Pheresis center, they called to > say that he will be able to donate to , this seems to be a new > process they are starting. They will be calling tomorrow night with all > the particulars, we use Polygam which is a Red Cross product. I will let > you all know what they say tomorrow and how it works, so many friends > and family ask if they can donate right to our kids, so this may be a > way for them to help. If the ARC is starting this maybe others will > follow suit. I just thought it was interesting. > mom to - CVID, asthma, GERD > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 > I have discovered what was the cause: Extremely high electrosmog I would bet my life that the reason was something other than " electrosmog " . Much more likely to be moulds in one place and not others IMHO. I mean, particular moulds that this person was sensitive to. I was a vegetable for years from (apparently) moulds in my last house, while unaffected in most other places and I have known several others in a similar situation. I have been tested by blind exposure to some moulds and the sx returned in force. If not moulds then plain old normal smog i.e car fumes) would be a far more likely difference between the problem place and the " parents place in the country " . Why go for the exotic theory with absolutely no supporting evidence when there are simpler and more likely ones to explain the facts, which do have supporting evidence? How we wish this person had taken their DECT phone with them to the country and re-created the sx. THAT would have been informative, and so easy to do, and provided such a great advance in CFS research. Sorry to be so dismissive , I'm having a bad day and I just think that this kind of thing on what is I guess a high profile site (newtreatments.org) does our cause a great disservice in drawing attention away from areas that need investigation, as well as providing " proof " to those who want it that we are all raving loonies. I also believe that moulds are a HUGE cause of CFS sx in a large number of patients, and this deserves a lot more attention than it gets. n At 03:40 PM 8/10/05, you wrote: >I found this site <http://www.newtreatments.org/cfs> where the author >states: > > " Update, December 2003 >Virtually all chronic fatigue symptoms I had have disappeared. I have >discovered what was the cause: Extremely high electrosmog levels in my >appartment. When I moved back home to my parents place in the >country, the energy levels returned very soon afterwards. In rural France I >had no problems what so ever. I am not saying every CFS is caused by >electrosmog (read: DECT wireless phones, cellular phones antenna's, >cellular phones, UMTS, digitenne, etc), but it would be wise to do some >research in that direction. More on that also on the index page. Please >give it a look and also be sure to read the book review on it. Also check >the links section for links to Homo Optimus websites for more >information. The remaining bouts of low-energy I had, were stopped by >using the extremely powerful " Homo Optimus diet " by Dr. Kwasniewski >from Poland. More on electrosmog can be found on the >NewTreatments.org index page. Below are my other observations I made >in 2002 and before. The mycoplasma is still a possible theory, but at least >it wasn't the determining factor in my case. Please read all material below >and do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Good luck ! " > > > > > > >This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each >other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment >discussed here, please consult your doctor. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 n, I think you might be missing the boat. I think an allergy to molds definitely play a role in this syndrome for many people BUT what is it affecting our system to make us more suceptible to molds and other allergens. I don't think you should be so dismissive of EMFs - especially those in the microwave frequency. There is good research to back this up. This is real. Read " Electromagnetic Fields " by Levitt. Lots of balanced thinking here with the research studies to back it up. These are definitely affecting our immunity - and our adrenals. Of course there are studies funded by the Cell Phone Companies - and naturally any intelligent person can guess what their results are. cheers, paul > >I found this site <http://www.newtreatments.org/cfs> where the author > >states: > > > > " Update, December 2003 > >Virtually all chronic fatigue symptoms I had have disappeared. I have > >discovered what was the cause: Extremely high electrosmog levels in my > >appartment. When I moved back home to my parents place in the > >country, the energy levels returned very soon afterwards. In rural France I > >had no problems what so ever. I am not saying every CFS is caused by > >electrosmog (read: DECT wireless phones, cellular phones antenna's, > >cellular phones, UMTS, digitenne, etc), but it would be wise to do some > >research in that direction. More on that also on the index page. Please > >give it a look and also be sure to read the book review on it. Also check > >the links section for links to Homo Optimus websites for more > >information. The remaining bouts of low-energy I had, were stopped by > >using the extremely powerful " Homo Optimus diet " by Dr. Kwasniewski > >from Poland. More on electrosmog can be found on the > >NewTreatments.org index page. Below are my other observations I made > >in 2002 and before. The mycoplasma is still a possible theory, but at least > >it wasn't the determining factor in my case. Please read all material below > >and do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Good luck ! " > > > > > > > > > > > > > >This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > >other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > >discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 Just to clarify, since I have done a lot of research on this lately... The problem with mold isn't an allergy to the mold itself. (A small number of people might be allergic to some mold species but that doesn't cause symptoms like CFS.) The " mold " problem is illness caused by toxins created by the mold. (They put toxins on their mold spores to give them a better chance of survival.) The reason it is more prevalent is probably because our homes are built tighter (less air exchange) and have defects (water leaking). When molds grow inside homes, the temperature and humidity is perfect for them to flourish, and they don't have to fight other species to survive. So they have a lot of energy to devote to making toxins. Mycotoxicology is a relatively new field and knowledge is coming quickly. A few years ago they couldn't even measure mycotoxins. About 24% of the population has a gene that makes them particularly susceptible to mold toxins, and 1% or so are even more susceptible than that. Doris ----- Original Message ----- I think an allergy to molds definitely play a role in this syndrome for many people BUT what is it affecting our system to make us more suceptible to molds and other allergens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Here's an interesting article to back up what I am saying: Chronic Fatigue Syndome-Is prolonged exposure to environmental level powerline frequency electromagnetic fields a co-factor to consider in treatment? http://www.acnem.org/journal/17-2_december_1998/cfs-emfs.htm If you can't put pieces together - if you can't see the forest for the trees - then the above authors have done it for you. The pieces of the puzzle fit. > > Just to clarify, since I have done a lot of research on this lately... The problem with mold isn't an allergy to the mold itself. (A small number of people might be allergic to some mold species but that doesn't cause symptoms like CFS.) The " mold " problem is illness caused by toxins created by the mold. (They put toxins on their mold spores to give them a better chance of survival.) The reason it is more prevalent is probably because our homes are built tighter (less air exchange) and have defects (water leaking). When molds grow inside homes, the temperature and humidity is perfect for them to flourish, and they don't have to fight other species to survive. So they have a lot of energy to devote to making toxins. Mycotoxicology is a relatively new field and knowledge is coming quickly. A few years ago they couldn't even measure mycotoxins. About 24% of the population has a gene that makes them particularly susceptible to mold toxins, and 1% or so are even more susceptible than that. > > Doris > ----- Original Message ----- > I think an allergy to molds definitely play a role in this syndrome for > many people BUT what is it affecting our system to make us more > suceptible to molds and other allergens. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 >>>>>I guess a high profile site.... .....does our cause a great disservice in drawing attention > away from areas that need investigation, as well as providing " proof " to > those who want it that we are all raving loonies.<<<<<< >>>>>Why go for the exotic theory with absolutely no supporting evidence when there are simpler and more likely ones to explain the facts, which do have supporting evidence?<<<<< Hi n, Don't forget that the fact that we are seriously multisytemically ill at all is an " exotic theory " to many. A very powerful Shrink lobby, much of the population, medical profession,society, all allowed or perpetuated by Governments, still maintain that this (CFS) is a delusion. AS Professor Simon Wessley said: {CFS}/ " M.E. " is a belief...the belief that one has a disease called {CFS}/M.E. " . I haven't studied the site, but I believe if you look further into this (EMF) field, you will find considerable credible research, and more every day. I believe this from seeing the research; I know it from having now become immediately reactive to close proximity to electronics, and electricity...buzzing and burning in brain, skin,and body, some obvious and visible (skin, neuro). Separately, I have some different, some overlapping significant reactions to synthetics,chemicals...also visible, and whether I know the chemical is present or not. Then there's the mold thing, and the viral, or bacterial thing. Then there's the gene thing and the chicken or the egg thing and the multi-causal thing. When one becomes clearly highly reactive or has been tested, for one of these, and is highly educated in the research of it, S/he may be postive IT is the culprit, causing,leading or activating all others. People will fight to the death that it is so. Or that other theories are hogwash. I recall long ago thinking that several of the above were isolated, or even bogus. NO LONGER! I do not have conclusion myself on single cause for me. I don't want to be beat to death for that, but I also know too much and have listened/seen too much (in others) and myself to dismiss any of it. Going from non-ill, non-reactive, non tested, non educated, to a yes to those makes little ruled out for me. I think for PWCS there are subsets, some with single hit or cause, some multicausal, some accumulating causes and reactions. I really think I had a hard viral hit, don't know about co-factors, am positive about accumulating factors, hits, triggers. One is EMF. >>>>when there are simpler and more likely ones to explain the facts, > which do have supporting evidence<<<<< > Do you really think this? Such as...? Take care, Katrina > >I found this site <http://www.newtreatments.org/cfs> where the author > >states: > > > > " Update, December 2003 > >Virtually all chronic fatigue symptoms I had have disappeared. I have > >discovered what was the cause: Extremely high electrosmog levels in my > >appartment. When I moved back home to my parents place in the > >country, the energy levels returned very soon afterwards. In rural France I > >had no problems what so ever. I am not saying every CFS is caused by > >electrosmog (read: DECT wireless phones, cellular phones antenna's, > >cellular phones, UMTS, digitenne, etc), but it would be wise to do some > >research in that direction. More on that also on the index page. Please > >give it a look and also be sure to read the book review on it. Also check > >the links section for links to Homo Optimus websites for more > >information. The remaining bouts of low-energy I had, were stopped by > >using the extremely powerful " Homo Optimus diet " by Dr. Kwasniewski > >from Poland. More on electrosmog can be found on the > >NewTreatments.org index page. Below are my other observations I made > >in 2002 and before. The mycoplasma is still a possible theory, but at least > >it wasn't the determining factor in my case. Please read all material below > >and do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Good luck ! " > > > > > > > > > > > > > >This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > >other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > >discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 For me accumulative, and multiple, factors make the most sense of how I became ill and why I remained so. It seems to have taken a series of events, including iatrogenic, to make my body less able to tolerate potential health stressors. I have no doubt genetic susceptibility has played it's part due to my family's medical histories, as well as my own, prior to the acute onset of what was Dx as ME/CFS. I lived in a seeming idyllic and healthy environment. However it was close to forestry land inhabited by deer, there were overhead power lines directly above my home, the agricultural field just behind it was often sprayed with pesticides and herbicides, and mould was a frequent problem too. There were yearly clusters of ME/CFS in this village, a local GP suspected the water supply because there were known problems with it. I saw a specialist in environmental medicine whose first area of interest was EMFs; he concluded it was part of the soup for me, not the cause. I also had mercury toxicity and high electrogalvanic readings from my amalgams, so I suspect that combined with the EMFs they did not help. I moved away from that location years ago and had my amalgams removed, but there was no real improvement in the symptoms attributed to EMFs. As far as I can tell there are fewer problems with EMFs where I live now, and no detectable mould in my home. It's only through staying aware of the bigger picture, and not focussing on just one or two issues, that has finally led to the stage I am at now. I still have a long way to go, but my good days I feel less ill than I have for the 22 years since my acute onset illness and what energy I do have feels normal. Everyone can see the difference; I no longer look ill most of the time. Finally getting to this point required accepting I had a multifaceted illness. Cheers, Tansy > > >I found this site <http://www.newtreatments.org/cfs> where the author > > >states: > > > > > > " Update, December 2003 > > >Virtually all chronic fatigue symptoms I had have disappeared. I have > > >discovered what was the cause: Extremely high electrosmog levels in my > > >appartment. When I moved back home to my parents place in the > > >country, the energy levels returned very soon afterwards. In rural France I > > >had no problems what so ever. I am not saying every CFS is caused by > > >electrosmog (read: DECT wireless phones, cellular phones antenna's, > > >cellular phones, UMTS, digitenne, etc), but it would be wise to do some > > >research in that direction. More on that also on the index page. Please > > >give it a look and also be sure to read the book review on it. Also check > > >the links section for links to Homo Optimus websites for more > > >information. The remaining bouts of low-energy I had, were stopped by > > >using the extremely powerful " Homo Optimus diet " by Dr. Kwasniewski > > >from Poland. More on electrosmog can be found on the > > >NewTreatments.org index page. Below are my other observations I made > > >in 2002 and before. The mycoplasma is still a possible theory, but at least > > >it wasn't the determining factor in my case. Please read all material below > > >and do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Good luck ! " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > > >other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > > >discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 > How we wish this person had taken their DECT phone with them to the country > and re-created the sx. THAT would have been informative, and so easy to > do, and provided such a great advance in CFS research. I dont know much about EMF, but ns point is an excellent one. Experimentation aint convincing until you do you go to some effort to isolate the variable in question. What n describes would be an excellent critical experiment, and should be undertaken by this person/people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Hi , Yes it is so frustrating when people make bald statements, and have the means to verify them, but don't do it! Since the claimi was written in 2003 I doubt we can find the person and ask them to do so now...? n At 07:25 AM 10/10/05, you wrote: > > How we wish this person had taken their DECT phone with them to the >country > > and re-created the sx. THAT would have been informative, and so >easy to > > do, and provided such a great advance in CFS research. > >I dont know much about EMF, but ns point is an excellent one. >Experimentation aint convincing until you do you go to some effort to >isolate the variable in question. What n describes would be an >excellent critical experiment, and should be undertaken by this >person/people. > > > > > > > >This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each >other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment >discussed here, please consult your doctor. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Hi , Katrina, Tansy, Yes I don't at all doubt the multifactorialness of our disease(s). I am also affected by overlapping and different sx from different things and I have spent years fighting the simplistic notions of the medical profession that unless you have something with a single blood test that proves it, then it is AIYH. I definitely wasn't suggesting that because moulds are ONE of my affective things, that this must be the answer for all CFS. I was just saying that if someone finds they are sick in a certain environment, and then they go to a country environment and appear to improve, then to decide this improvement occurs because of less " electrosmog " is an unjustifiable leap of faith with nothing to support it, and there are more likely reasons to explain the improvement eg. different/less moulds, less air pollution etc. I wasn't hanging my hat on moulds, just that mould (toxins, thanks Doris) sensitivity is one cause of symptoms that is easily demonstrated and is widely accepted with very good science to back it up and which is known to affect many, many pwcs. My minor crusade on moulds is because I often read about people's sx which are EXACTLY the same as I get from mould exposure, and I know from having the luxury of changing my environment that this explains particular serious symptoms, but these people are remaining in the problem environment bec they have no demonstration of the serious effects of these moulds on them. They don't get the before/after demonstration. I think mould toxin sensitivity is an explanation for a huge amount of our sx and therefore want to highlight it as often as possible. EMFs on the other hand is still very much in the " maybe/could be/ possible " category and has no good science yet to back it up (IMHO). The " scientific " discussion that does exist on this is characterised by confusion and doubt and also a great deal of misinformation (have a look at Mercola on EMFs if you want to see a confused discussion - http://www.mercola.com/article/emf/emf_dangers.htm . When he gets into statements like (talking about water beds) " there is the issue regarding the vibrations that are generated by sleeping on standing water " (huh?!) you know that there is no rational science going on in this article at all. Or what about " When electricians try to solve a magnetic field problem they do their best to drop the level to 1 mG or below ? " I'm sure that not a single electrician in the US or anywhere else has tried meaningfully to solve a magnetic field problem. They simply don't have the training or the interest, it is quite a complicated science and is not related to what electricians do or know about. I challenge anyone to ask 100 electricians to calculate whether their bedroom at point x has more or less than 1mG magnetic field, not one of them would have the faintest idea what to do or even what you were talking about! Try it someone, please, then write off to Dr Mercola who is rapidly becoming more and more idiotic in some of his statements. (Here's another one, while I am stuck on this aside - Mercola suggested in one of his newsletters that we all need Selenium. (true enough, given the lack of Se in our remaining soils, and how essential is it for immune function). He then went on to state that the **best** way to get selenium conveniently was to eat spinach. Well I know something about Selenium and so I went and checked, to confirm that to get your daily target of Se you would need to eat 20Kg of spinach. Is this likely to be the " best " way to get your Se? 40 *pounds* of spinach every day? No, because a MUCH easier method, (and you should thank me for this if you didn't know already) is to eat 3 Brazil nuts a day. Brazil nuts have far more Se in them than any known food, and make a wonderful source of the stuff. 3 brazil nuts a day is cheaper than any Se supplement, and almost certainly better for you due to the usual cofactors likely to be hidden in each nut. How did Mercola come to his lunatic, unjustified conclusion about Spinach? I have no idea, only that he did not answer when I wrote to him. I suggest that his " vibrations from sleeping on standing water " statement has as much validity). The article quoted by http://www.acnem.org/journal/17-2_december_1998/cfs-emfs.htm is on 50/60 Hz EMF which is a totally different thing from the higher frequency " electrosmog " our pwc decided were his/her problem when they moved houses, and is almost certainly going to be associated with different biological effects from high frequency radiation (if there are any at all). This particular article is not related to wireless and cellular phones that were being blamed by the quoted person. If you follow the arguments of this paper, our country-based pwc was still being subjected to dangerous fields in the country due to the toaster or the washing machine in the country house, so was not likely to be significantly better at all compared to the previous place. If we want to look at mains power effects, most serious studies (but not all) conclude " no effect " , although obviously it might affect some people in some circumstances which would be missed by this kind of study. But epidemiological studies overwhelmingly come up with " no proof one way or the other " or " does not support " as their conclusions. If 50/60Hz effects (mains power) are actually significant, then it would be very easy to test because an electric blanket gives you more exposure to emfs than any other likely source, simply because it is less than 1 cm away from you, and you sleep next to them all night long. You get more EMF exposure from an electric blanket than from living right next to the easement of a high voltage power line. (See http://infoventures.com/private/federal/q & a/qa-envn2.html ) Simply, if you use an electric blanket you are subjected to much more EMF than someone who doesn't, so you would imagine it would be easy to test the effects of these dangerous blankets, and that the results would be unambiguous. It is not surprising therefore that many people have done studies designed to link electric blanket use with all sorts of diseases, the most common being breast cancer. Here are the conclusions of the 10 or so most recent relevant Medline articles on studies of this kind (search Medline on Electric Blankets or EMFs etc): Overall, results indicate that extremely low frequency electromagnetic fields from commonly used household appliances are unlikely to increase the risk of brain tumors. Despite its small size and potential misclassification of exposure, this study provides evidence against an association between electric blanket or mattress cover use and endometrial cancer. While 95% confidence intervals for these estimates did not exclude small risks, overall, results did not support an association between breast cancer risk and exposure to EMFs from electric blankets. The biologic plausibility of an association between EMF and breast cancer, coupled with suggestive data from occupational studies and unexplained high incidence rates of breast cancer, suggests that further investigation of this possible association is warranted. The results of this large investigation are consistent with those of most previous studies, and do not support the hypothesis that electric blanket use is associated with increased breast cancer risk. There was no evidence of a dose-response relation with increasing number of months that electric blankets had been used. This study provides evidence against a positive association between electric blanket or mattress cover use and breast cancer. While 95% confidence intervals for these estimates did not exclude small risks, overall, results did not support an association between breast cancer risk and exposure to EMFs from electric blankets. The odds ratio (OR) for prostate cancer associated with the use of an electric blanket or heated water bed was 1.4 (95% confidence interval (CI) 0.9-2.2). The risk, however, did not tend to be higher with increasing months per year or years of use. This study did not provide clear evidence on the hypothesized association. These data do not support the hypothesis that electric blanket use increases breast cancer risk among women under age 55 years. These findings do not support the hypothesis that electric blanket use is associated with an increased risk for breast cancer. Studies with improved measures of more highly exposed individuals with quantification of total electromagnetic field exposure might clarify the uncertainties regarding risk of breast cancer associated with such exposure. Adjustment for the Quetelet index and reproductive risk factors did not alter the results. These findings do not support the hypothesis that electric blanket use is associated with an increased risk for breast cancer. The slightly elevated estimate of risk for the most frequent electric blanket users and the potential public health significance of electromagnetic field exposure suggest that further inquiries be undertaken. Yes there are a couple of studies which suggest that further studies are warranted, but this is far from what should be a very clear difference between people who use electric blankets and those who don't. It should be unequivocal; it is a fine test scenario for the effects of low frequency mains emfs. The fact that most studies come up with no relationship is pretty strong evidence against any general sensitivity to this kind of EMFs, but I agree there might be especially susceptible people (as we tend to be) who are missed by this kind of study. Just the same I sincerely doubt it, this is only my opinion, but I will still eat my hat / bet my life on the fact that " electrosmog " was not the reason the quoted person improved on moving to the country. As pointed out, this person had the perfect opportunity to " prove " it on themselves, but unfortunately didn't appear to do so. It is even more surprising that there does not appear to much of a relationship between electric blanket use and ill health when you consider the bias built into such studies - Firstly, people who use electric blankets are more likely to be the frail/more sensitive/sicker people than those who don't, so you might expect a positive correlation anyway even if EMF's have nothing to do with it. Secondly, there ARE studies that show the electric blankets cause poor quality sleep, which would predispose you to all sorts of health problems. I suspect these two associations would easily explain the mild bias towards poor health effects in electric blanket users that some studies found. As for wireless phones and mobiles, we have to remember that each of these is very different from each other and from mains EMFs - different frequencies and different field strengths. Mobiles are far more likely to cause a problem than anything else bec they are much higher powered and held close to the head. Other cordless/wireless phones use considerably lower power so are less likely to be a problem. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a correlation between mobile use and some kind of health problem, but that still has not been proven either. We'll just have to wait and see. But this is a long way from suggesting that much lower levels of entirely different frequency are likely to be a problem, and we should not confuse the two in making blanket statements about the ill effects of EM fields. Anyway I accept that my bald statement was unnecessarily inflammatory and agree that nothing is proven. I just haven't seen anything related to emfs that is even remotely as likely as other more obvious explanations to explain our symptoms and causes, including: - genetics - exposure to seriously damaging chemicals - particular acute infections in susceptible people - multiple kinds of (immune-destructive) chronic infections, - malnutrition due to gut problems, - secondary sensitivities to all kind of things - stress; short and long term effects - glutathione deprivation (which I am sure Rich's theories are at least very close to the mark, seems well demonstrated proven to have a role for many of us), - other broken metabolic pathways - did I mention serious chemical exposure? etc... Cheers and best wishes to everyone, I apologise for stirring unnecessarily, it was a very bad day the other day, and as many will know I am a skeptic by nature and do tend to get carried away with indignation at unsupported choice of least likely explanations for things. (eg " I had a car accident on the way home, I reckon it was caused by the alignment of Mars with Saturn the day before yesterday " . Hard to argue with, except on the basis of more likely factors such as drunkenness, tiredness, antagonism, lack of concentration,...). n Congenital Defects and Electric Bed Heating in New York State: A Register-Based Case-Control Study. Source: <http://infoventures.com/emf/hrpt/v1//emf/database/>EMF Database published by Information Ventures, Inc. ---------- Because they produce relatively intense and prolonged levels of personal exposure, electric bed heaters (electric blankets and heated waterbeds) are appliances which produce a major source of variation in electromagnetic field (EMF) exposure in the population. Some epidemiologic evidence suggests that exposure to 60-Hz EMF may enhance the risk of childhood cancer, and may also be related to the incidence of congenital defects. The authors conducted a case-control study to examine any possible relationship between congenital defects and the use of electric blankets or waterbeds. Study samples were obtained from population-based registers maintained by the New York State Department of Health. Cases consisted of liveborn children from the 57 counties outside New York City who were born with a neural tube defect in 1983-1986, or an oral cleft defect in 1983-1984, as recorded in the Congenital Malformations Registry. Study controls consisted of liveborn children without major malformations identified from birth registrations. Three controls were selected at random for each case by computer searches that individually matched the mother's age (within 2 yr), race (white, other than white), home county, month of last menstrual period, and child's sex. Priority (number 1, 2, or 3) was randomly assigned to the subjects in each control triplet. Mothers of cases and controls, aged 18 yr or older in June 1988 and able to read either English or Spanish, were invited to participate unless birth registration data or an attending physician suggested a possible contraindication to participate. Information on health, behavior, and life style was collected using a structured, self-administered questionnaire. The questionnaire asked whether the subjects owned and used an electric blanket or heated waterbed during the dates between 1 mo before and 3 mo after the estimated date of conception. Subjects who responded in the affirmative were further questioned about their usual bed heater control setting, duration of daily use, number of years used, year of purchase, and the name of the manufacturer. A logistic regression model was used for analyses of independent and joint effects of variables on the likelihood of being exposed to an electric blanket or heated waterbed. Odds ratio estimates of relative risk were calculated for users of electric blankets and heated waterbeds with McNemar's test without adjustment for covariates when covariates were included. To evaluate the reliability of exposure recall, 1 of every 7 respondents was selected at random for a telephone interview. Ninety-four percent of case candidates (n=663) and 98% of priority 1 control candidates (n=685) were eligible for inclusion in the study. Matched odds ratio estimates (OR) and 95% confidence interval (CI) for electric blanket use relative to nonuse were 0.8 (CI, 0.3-2.1) for cleft palate, 0.7 (CI, 0.3-1.3) for cleft lip, and 0.9 (CI, 0.5-1.6) for neural tube defects. Nearly identical respective ORs were obtained for waterbed use. When the authors adjusted for potential confounding variables (maternal education, vitamin use, smoking) and stratification for waterbed or electric blanket usage by season, no effect upon these ORs was observed. These data do not support the hypothesis that exposure to 60-Hz EMF from electric blanket or waterbed use increases the risk of neural tube and/or oral cleft defects. (61 Refs). [Copyright 1994, Information Ventures, Inc.] 50 Hz sinusoidal magnetic fields do not affect human lymphocyte activation and proliferation in vitro. <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Search & term=%22Capr\ i+M%22%5BAuthor%5D>Capri M, <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Search & term=%22Mesi\ rca+P%22%5BAuthor%5D>Mesirca P, <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Search & term=%22Remo\ ndini+D%22%5BAuthor%5D>Remondini D, <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Search & term=%22Caro\ sella+S%22%5BAuthor%5D>Carosella S, <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Search & term=%22Pasi\ +S%22%5BAuthor%5D>Pasi S, <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Search & term=%22Cast\ ellani+G%22%5BAuthor%5D>Castellani G, <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Search & term=%22Fran\ ceschi+C%22%5BAuthor%5D>Franceschi C, <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Search & term=%22Bers\ ani+F%22%5BAuthor%5D>Bersani F. Department of Experimental Pathology, Via S Giacomo 12, University of Bologna, 40126 Bologna, Italy. CIG: Centro Interdipartimentale 'L. Galvani', Via S Giacomo 12, University of Bologna, 40126 Bologna, Italy. In the last 30 years, an increasing public concern about the possible harmful effects of electromagnetic fields generated by power lines and domestic appliances has pushed the scientific community to search for a correct and comprehensive answer to this problem. In this work the effects of exposure to 50 Hz sinusoidal magnetic fields, with a magnetic flux density of 0.05 mT and 2.5 mT (peak values), were studied on human peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) collected from healthy young and elderly donors. Cell activation and proliferation were investigated by using flow cytometry techniques and (3)H-TdR incorporation assays, respectively. The results obtained indicated that exposure to the fields altered neither DNA synthesis nor the capacity of lymphocytes to enter the activation phase and progress into the cell cycle. Thus, the conclusions are that two important functional phases of human lymphocytes, such as activation and proliferation, are not affected by exposures to 50 Hz magnetic fields similar to those found under power lines. At 02:05 PM 9/10/05, you wrote: >n, > >I think you might be missing the boat. > >I think an allergy to molds definitely play a role in this syndrome for >many people BUT what is it affecting our system to make us more >suceptible to molds and other allergens. I don't think you should be so >dismissive of EMFs - especially those in the microwave frequency. There >is good research to back this up. This is real. Read " Electromagnetic >Fields " by Levitt. Lots of balanced thinking here with the research studies >to back it up. These are definitely affecting our immunity - and our >adrenals. Of course there are studies funded by the Cell Phone Companies >- and naturally any intelligent person can guess what their results are. > >cheers, > >paul > > > > >I found this site <http://www.newtreatments.org/cfs> where the author > > >states: > > > > > > " Update, December 2003 > > >Virtually all chronic fatigue symptoms I had have disappeared. I have > > >discovered what was the cause: Extremely high electrosmog levels in >my > > >appartment. When I moved back home to my parents place in the > > >country, the energy levels returned very soon afterwards. In rural >France I > > >had no problems what so ever. I am not saying every CFS is caused by > > >electrosmog (read: DECT wireless phones, cellular phones antenna's, > > >cellular phones, UMTS, digitenne, etc), but it would be wise to do some > > >research in that direction. More on that also on the index page. Please > > >give it a look and also be sure to read the book review on it. Also >check > > >the links section for links to Homo Optimus websites for more > > >information. The remaining bouts of low-energy I had, were stopped by > > >using the extremely powerful " Homo Optimus diet " by Dr. Kwasniewski > > >from Poland. More on electrosmog can be found on the > > >NewTreatments.org index page. Below are my other observations I >made > > >in 2002 and before. The mycoplasma is still a possible theory, but at >least > > >it wasn't the determining factor in my case. Please read all material >below > > >and do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Good luck >! " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with > each > > >other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any >treatment > > >discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Hi everyone. 'Electrosmog' is a funny word, let's say it all together, OK... Seriously, I saw this thread Saturday and have been thinking about it enough that I have my own hypothesis which could overlap w/ molds. The problem w/ the mold theory is that everyone in the same house- hold is exposed to it/them, and many PWCs husbands/wives/kids/parents are just fine. I know there could be a genetic difference but one would think that if moulds were bad enough to disable someone, they would at least make someone else in the HH sick. However, moulds should be pursued. My theory is simply that this individual who moved out in to the country w/ his parents was able to remove himself from the stress that was affecting his adrenal glands, heart, sleep (or lack thereof) and that being more or less stress free allowed him to heel. I have seen friends at work who have literally broken out with rashes on their faces due to a bad boss or work environment. Also, I know a lady PWC who is disabled and doesn't work, has moved twice in the last year, and is stressed all the time because she lives alone and is worried about losing her LTD and ending up on welfare, not to mention the stress from isolation. My point is, I wonder how many of us would improve or get 90% or so better if we were able to move to a low/no stress environment for 1-2 years? n, if I may be so bold as to ask, what change did you make in your living situation and do you still work, if so what or what did you used to due and was it stressful? Thanks, Mike C In , n <aaaardvark@i...> wrote: > > Hi , Katrina, Tansy, > > Yes I don't at all doubt the multifactorialness of our disease(s). I am > also affected by overlapping and different sx from different things and I > have spent years fighting the simplistic notions of the medical profession > that unless you have something with a single blood test that proves it, > then it is AIYH. I definitely wasn't suggesting that because moulds are > ONE of my affective things, that this must be the answer for all CFS. > > I was just saying that if someone finds they are sick in a certain > environment, and then they go to a country environment and appear to > improve, then to decide this improvement occurs because of less > " electrosmog " is an unjustifiable leap of faith with nothing to support it, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Thanks for the detailed post. One other thing regarding EMF's is that last I was looking at this, whatever bad effect there are, they don't believe they are related to the strength of the field, rather the specific frequency involved. Certain frequencies might interfere with the way the cells communicate. So a small EMF of the right type might be worse than another huge EMF. This would make the whole cause and effect even more difficult to discern. That said, I don't really have an opinion on how bad EMF's are for us. As you said, the research seems very incomplete. Doris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Hi Mike, >n, if I may be so bold as to ask, what change did you make in >your living situation and do you still work, if so what or what did >you used to due and was it stressful? Thanks, Like all of us I have a long and complicated story, but the simple answers might be: After being diagnosed with CFS I kept working to survive, this was fairly permanently stressful bec it was a a consulting situation and a) I needed to keep faith with employers, and you only ever got hired in company high stress situations, which is when they want consultants. Then I got MCS type sick as well, and started getting serious constant 'viral' infections as well. I was allergic/sensitive to most clothing etc and this made life stressful in itself. Then I got so sick I had to stop my work, so I became stressed due to lack of money. I applied for disability and spent a few years fighting that, which was the most stressful time of my life, because I had no funds at all and couldn't even work for a few days or an hour a week because it would have (wrongly) made my disability claim even more impossible. I finally got a small pension but had to pay off huge loan, so started various minor work efforts like teaching computers to underprivileged people and doing some photography - both of these had the advantage I could not work when sick without catastrophe, an advantage I used quite often. (the point about teaching underprivileged people is they have lower expectations so I could cancel lessons without causing surprise. Not saying this is fair but it was a fact in my favour). This year I was offered (as happened periodically) a high paying short term work in another city, in my old consulting work (engineering). I eventually decided to take it, although this was a high risk proposition for me given my intolerance of cities (car smog probably, and moulds in big building air conditioning systems). I was not in good shape for the first few days, but eventually came to an even keel and was doing fantastically. Moderate stress job, turning to high stress in the later weeks of this 6 week job. Then in the 5th week I became, suddenly , highly MCS to things I had not been sensitive to before, but by then I had been offered and accepted another similar job. It was a nightmare, I can not tell you how much stress has been involved in the gradual realisation as to how many things I am now intolerant to, and what enormous changes I am going to have to make to my lifestyle. It is truly awful. But in all this high stress time I did not become 'virus' sick. This has always been my pattern - high stress, no infection-type illness; low stress or relaxation time, always get infections. So now that I am back in home town and only medium stress, I have just become sick again which explains my time here at the computer. THe above is very simplified, I forgot to add that moving out of my mould-ridden home in 1995 was immediately followed by a great improvement in my cognition and general health, then soon after, a big crash in my health in terms of continuous infection. I think this showed that I was definitely sensitive to moulds (proven on many occasions since) and also that I had moved to a location with more dangers - I was now next to a golf course. My current suspicion in that the golf course chemicals (they use considerable quantitities of powerful and dangerous chemicals as herbicides and insecticides, although I have never seen them actually do it (I have the list of their chemical usage just recently, it is frightening)). I suspect I have been greatly affected by these chemicals. I have decided to move, but without money am stuck with how and where, and a huge fear of isolation since I am single and would be moving on my own to a theoretically isolated place. Current plan is to move temporarily somewhere to help prove one way or the other about the golf course. Also forgot to add that in recent years was re-diagnosed as Lyme disease and started long term abx which helped my " Lyme " symptoms enormously, but no effect on other " CFS " or MCS sx. Themes in terms of causes/effects are: Moulds > broken brain, aches and pains, extreme lethargy. Stress = fairly constant theme. High stress = no acute infections, lower stress = lots of infections. Stress is associated with all the times of increased MCS. Cheers n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Hi n Have you ever tried to get the mold toxins out of your body with CSM? I know that leaving the mold areas can help you improve, as it did with me. But your body has to be working pretty well, your liver, etc. to be able to detox the mold on your own. (And if you have the really bad genes then it probably is impossible to detox on your own.). You probably know that Shoemaker says out of 500 people he has treated with MCS, they all had underlying mold toxins. When I was removed from mold I did become less and less MCS until now it is barely noticeable. I also live on a golf course which worried me at first, but it turns out that the course I am on is very natural and doesn't do any spraying for bugs or weeds. (It helps that we are at 5000 feet and bugs basically aren't around, and in a desert so weeds don't grow except where you water. This spring they burned the edges of the course to kill the spring weeds.) Ironically the one chemicals they use is to stop snow mold during the winter, so I guess I'm not going to complain about that! I did have some mold exposure and have been slightly worse since then, so I am trying the CSM now. Also Shoemaker believes the reason some people don't recover from lyme with antibiotics is because they still have lyme toxins in them. He claims that treating them with CSM gets rid of the lyme toxins and they get better. Again, all but the worst genetic makeup. I found some stresses, such as traveling to Japan, caused me to become sicker, typically viral. But extreme emotional stress such as the death of a sibling, caused some of my best health.. Doris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Thanks for sharing. Getting back to the original post, what do you think your condition would be after a year, if you were able to move to an area of Australia (or anywhere) where there weren't any molds and you didn't have to worry about money? It seems to me that the combination of an infection/mold exposure/unknown and then constant stress put the 'chronic' in CFS. We keep talking about treatments, but I know of nobody who has been able to just take it easy w/out any financial concerns. Mike C. > > Hi Mike, > > >n, if I may be so bold as to ask, what change did you make in > >your living situation and do you still work, if so what or what did > >you used to due and was it stressful? Thanks, > > Like all of us I have a long and complicated story, but the simple answers > might be: <<<snip<<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 There was a person I know of who had CFS + MCS and went to live in a stainless steel caravan (with her partner I point out, so not isolated) in the desert country of central Australia. According to her partner who was trying to sell me the caravan, after three years she was " cured " . I guess I see my particular problem kind of as you imply - that anywhere which is likely to be good environmentally is also associated with complete isolation from friends and family, as well as from normal work opportunities (i.e. more financial stress) and a vaguely normal social life. This would be a huge stress for me. We all know of people who seem to be able to decide to go and live on a pacific island and pick up with the locals and enjoy life, but this isn't me. So ... I'm not sure. n At 12:41 PM 11/10/05, you wrote: >Thanks for sharing. Getting back to the original post, what do you >think your condition would be after a year, if you were able to move >to an area of Australia (or anywhere) where there weren't any molds >and you didn't have to worry about money? It seems to me that the >combination of an infection/mold exposure/unknown and then constant >stress put the 'chronic' in CFS. We keep talking about treatments, >but I know of nobody who has been able to just take it easy w/out >any financial concerns. > >Mike C. > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > >n, if I may be so bold as to ask, what change did you make in > > >your living situation and do you still work, if so what or what >did > > >you used to due and was it stressful? Thanks, > > > > Like all of us I have a long and complicated story, but the simple >answers > > might be: ><<<snip<<< > > > > > > >This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each >other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment >discussed here, please consult your doctor. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Doris, since there is usually only one person in a household supposedly affected by an EMF, is there a supposition that you have to have a bad gene or some other infection for the EMF to affect the sick individual and not the rest of the family? Again, in this case w/ EMFs, it would seem that it would affect everyone in the house. Mike C. > > Thanks for the detailed post. One other thing regarding EMF's is that last I was looking at this, whatever bad effect there are, they don't believe they are related to the strength of the field, rather the specific frequency involved. Certain frequencies might interfere with the way the cells communicate. So a small EMF of the right type might be worse than another huge EMF. This would make the whole cause and effect even more difficult to discern. > > That said, I don't really have an opinion on how bad EMF's are for us. As you said, the research seems very incomplete. > Doris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Yes, I see your point. I don't know how old you are, but what I was getting at is that if someone w/ CFS could live in a stainless steel dwelling in the desert for a year, and then come back healed and be able to get on with a pretty much normal life, would it or would it not be worth it? I don't know, but maybe worth considering for some. Mike C. > > There was a person I know of who had CFS + MCS and went to live in a > stainless steel caravan (with her partner I point out, so not isolated) in > the desert country of central Australia. According to her partner who was > trying to sell me the caravan, after three years she was " cured " . > > I guess I see my particular problem kind of as you imply - that anywhere > which is likely to be good environmentally is also associated with complete > isolation from friends and family, as well as from normal work > opportunities (i.e. more financial stress) and a vaguely normal social > life. This would be a huge stress for me. We all know of people who seem > to be able to decide to go and live on a pacific island and pick up with > the locals and enjoy life, but this isn't me. So ... I'm not sure. > > n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 At 11:16 AM 12/10/05, you wrote: >Yes, I see your point. I don't know how old you are, but what I was >getting at is that if someone w/ CFS could live in a stainless steel >dwelling in the desert for a year, and then come back healed and be >able to get on with a pretty much normal life, would it or would it >not be worth it? I don't know, but maybe worth considering for some. > >Mike C. If I knew FOR SURE that staying in a stainless steel caravan in the desert for 1, 2 or 3 years would fix me, I would do it without hesitation and treat it as a grand adventure and encourage friends and family to come and view me in my caravan for regular entertainment. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no guarantee and that huge waste of time would be a loss of much of my remaining productive life, not to mention possibly having psychological effects that might stay with me for the rest of life (like talking to myself or to small bugs that may or may not be living under the stone that I am addressing, or hating people and abusing visitors, or shouting obscenities at invisible members of our miserable government). Strangely, while writing this I found myself contemplating the reality of this as an experiment, even if I am unsure of the results. Perhaps I really should take a long sabbatical in some remote place, or not so remote if I take the seaside option, and just practice my photography and write books. You have started me thinking.... But my point was that there are a lot of somewhat drastic treatments that I am sure most of us would try if we were certain of the results. But they all have a large cost in dollars or time or risk or lifestyle or friendships or .... Another one I would try at great cost if I was sure of the results, would be that cure for Lyme that was all the rage for a while - which name I can't remember - but hyperthermic cell treatment or something like that in which you raise the body (intracellular) temp to above 42degC which kills Borrelias. SOme people reported great success, some said they were improving and would try another treatment and we never heard from them again, some never reported back, and I think one or two died. Since we don't hear so much about it anymore as a treatment, I guess we can conclude that it is not highly successful. Cheers n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 > One other thing regarding EMF's is that last I was looking at this, > whatever bad effect there are, they don't believe they are related to the > strength of the field, rather the specific frequency involved. Certain > frequencies might interfere with the way the cells communicate. So a > small EMF of the right type might be worse than another huge EMF. This > would make the whole cause and effect even more difficult to discern. Doris Yes I agree although you would think such a frequency would be easy to test for and would be well known by now, but who knows? As you say, it's all hard to be sure about any of it. n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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