Re: New here-Can anyone give me information on SSI Room and Board

[Guest guest]

I will cut and paste past responses from Sherri Schneider:

The most SSI can award monthly in Illinois in 2009 is $674 for rent, food,

clothes....etc....

If the applicant is living with someone else, SSI does not believe that they

need the whole $674 since he/she is getting rent for free. They value this help

at 1/3. So instead of receiving $674, he/she will now receive $449.34.

If the applicant pays rent, and the rent is above a certain #, then he/she will

received $674

If the applicant pays rent, and the rent is below a certain #, then he/she will

still receive $449.34.

" HELP " always reduces the monthly SSI amount.

I always caution when considering rent. While the applicant receives more in

SSI, there may be a negative impact to the " landlord " (usually the parent). My

accountant reviewed certain questions with me before we made this decision for

our son:

- do I need to claim this rental income on my taxes?

- is my home zoned for rental property?

- will my house's value depreciate when I sell it (rental property)?

- can I still claim my son on my taxes:

telling the IRA that I provide more than 50% of his support

telling SSI that he rents from me (I provide 0 support)

2 different government agencies, 2 different stories & they are both under the

Dept of Treasury.

SSI ONLY looks at the applicant and does not review potential issues to the

landlord.

For rent, I usually ask the family:

- Is this money for housing? housing and food?

- Does he/she have his/her own bedroom? own bathroom?

SSI has a formula that they use to determine if the rent is sufficient and/or

if the applicant is getting " help " . In 2009, I was told by a SSI technical

expert that a rent of $250 would be suficient for housing. I would increase this

amount every year as SSI also increases their formula yearly. My clients usually

do not include food in this amount - this way, the remaining SSI money can be

also be used to purchase food.

From Rubin:

For shared expenses must take into account all, including mortgage and taxes.

If the child's share is in excess of the SSI amount then they are being

subsidized and still lose 1/3. Shared expenses is on method and flat room and

board is the safer method when the shared amount would be higher then the SSI

amount - but that is when the exemption and rent issue come in. Remember I am

both a former IRS agent and a former IRS attorney. I have had to educate many

CPAs over the years. Sherri stated it correctly. We have both seen parents

getting burned by the shared expense method because if you use that method then

they have the right to ask for all utility bills, homeowners insurance, real

estate tax, phone, garbage, as well as food, etc. With the flat rent you don't

have to disclose any of that. So correct that shared expenses means no tax

issue, but beware of the computation.

Rubin

Please let us know if this answers your question.

Ellen

Ellen Garber Bronfeld

egskb@...

[Guest guest]

I charge my daughter $274 a month. She pays for most of her clothes and shoes.

Her out of pocket meds, SEASPAR programs, her work training program. I pay for

the rest.

Make sure you keep track of everything paid for with your son's SSI money, each

year, SSA sends you the Annual Payee report to fill out.

>

> I would like to know how to figure out what to charge my son (has SSI

disability determination) so that he can get the full room and board allowance

in the SSI. Is there documentation that I need to keep? How do I do this?

>

> He is now 18 and done with the academic part of highschool. He works

part-time and lives at home. I don't know how to figure out how to do this part

of the SSI. Do I start having him buy his own food with his money or what?

>

> Thanks for any help you can give me. The people at PACT thought there is

someone here who knows about this.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you this was very helpful to me. I also had concerns about the income tax

implications and privacy issues. This is helpful to me!

>

> I will cut and paste past responses from Sherri Schneider:

>

> The most SSI can award monthly in Illinois in 2009 is $674 for rent, food,

clothes....etc....

>

> If the applicant is living with someone else, SSI does not believe that they

need the whole $674 since he/she is getting rent for free. They value this help

at 1/3. So instead of receiving $674, he/she will now receive $449.34.

> If the applicant pays rent, and the rent is above a certain #, then he/she

will received $674

> If the applicant pays rent, and the rent is below a certain #, then he/she

will still receive $449.34.

> " HELP " always reduces the monthly SSI amount.

>

> I always caution when considering rent. While the applicant receives more in

SSI, there may be a negative impact to the " landlord " (usually the parent). My

accountant reviewed certain questions with me before we made this decision for

our son:

> - do I need to claim this rental income on my taxes?

> - is my home zoned for rental property?

> - will my house's value depreciate when I sell it (rental property)?

> - can I still claim my son on my taxes:

> telling the IRA that I provide more than 50% of his support

> telling SSI that he rents from me (I provide 0 support)

> 2 different government agencies, 2 different stories & they are both under the

Dept of Treasury.

>

> SSI ONLY looks at the applicant and does not review potential issues to the

landlord.

>

>

> For rent, I usually ask the family:

> - Is this money for housing? housing and food?

> - Does he/she have his/her own bedroom? own bathroom?

>

> SSI has a formula that they use to determine if the rent is sufficient and/or

if the applicant is getting " help " . In 2009, I was told by a SSI technical

expert that a rent of $250 would be suficient for housing. I would increase this

amount every year as SSI also increases their formula yearly. My clients usually

do not include food in this amount - this way, the remaining SSI money can be

also be used to purchase food.

>

> From Rubin:

>

> For shared expenses must take into account all, including mortgage and taxes.

If the child's share is in excess of the SSI amount then they are being

subsidized and still lose 1/3. Shared expenses is on method and flat room and

board is the safer method when the shared amount would be higher then the SSI

amount - but that is when the exemption and rent issue come in. Remember I am

both a former IRS agent and a former IRS attorney. I have had to educate many

CPAs over the years. Sherri stated it correctly. We have both seen parents

getting burned by the shared expense method because if you use that method then

they have the right to ask for all utility bills, homeowners insurance, real

estate tax, phone, garbage, as well as food, etc. With the flat rent you don't

have to disclose any of that. So correct that shared expenses means no tax

issue, but beware of the computation.

> Rubin

>

> Please let us know if this answers your question.

> Ellen

> Ellen Garber Bronfeld

> egskb@...

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much! And thanks for adding the info on the Annual Payee report.

I've set up a file for these but now I am going to look for a sample of the

report so I make sure I have everything for when that time comes. Thank you for

your help!

> >

> > I would like to know how to figure out what to charge my son (has SSI

disability determination) so that he can get the full room and board allowance

in the SSI. Is there documentation that I need to keep? How do I do this?

> >

> > He is now 18 and done with the academic part of highschool. He works

part-time and lives at home. I don't know how to figure out how to do this part

of the SSI. Do I start having him buy his own food with his money or what?

> >

> > Thanks for any help you can give me. The people at PACT thought there is

someone here who knows about this.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

When had SSI, I was told by someone at the SSA to do the 1/3 rate for room

& board. Now he has SSDI, so should we be charging him a flat rate?

Thanks,

Liz

[Guest guest]

If not on SSI you don't " need " to charge him anything to maintain the full SSDI

amount. However he can't accumulate resources due to Medicaid (again not an

issue for SSDI and Medicare). So I suggest charging " fair share " which is not

income to you and then, if you desire, and our financially able to, placing that

amount or a portion of that amount into a third party special needs trust.

Another option is to use that amount or a portion of it to pay premiums on a

life insurance policy to fund the trust for his future needs.

Sent from my iPhone

Rubin J.D.

SPECIAL NEEDS FUTURE PLANNING

Law Offices of Rubin & Associates

@...<mailto:@...>

office 847.279.7999

toll free 866.to.rubin

fax 847.279.0090

visit <http://www.SNFP.net> www.SNFP.net<http://www.SNFP.net>

Member of The Special Needs Alliance - <http://www.specialneedsalliance.org>

www.specialneedsalliance.org<http://www.specialneedsalliance.org>

On Aug 28, 2011, at 7:45 AM, " Liz "

<dljar58@...<mailto:dljar58@...>> wrote:

When had SSI, I was told by someone at the SSA to do the 1/3 rate for room

& board. Now he has SSDI, so should we be charging him a flat rate?

Thanks,

Liz

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . That info does help, as I don't want him going over his $2,000.

(He does get Medicaid,besides the SSDI so I know I have to watch that he

doesn't go over. Some months he has more left at the end of the month & I want

to use it for something useful.

Liz

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz,  I've been traveling the last few days so unable to respond until

now.  As indicated, SSDI does not deem 'inkind support' the way SSI does

so you do not have to charge rent to get the full amount he is due. 

However if Jon is unable to spend down his earnings and SSDI each month on other

expenses, he could end up with more than $2,000 which may affect his Medicaid

eligibility. 

When my daughter was living at home, I 'charged' her fair share of

household expenses which was 1/3rd of the basic costs in maintaining our home. 

I took that money and placed it in a savings account in my and my husband's name

and social security, payable on death to Jen's special needs trust.  I did not

place the money directly into her special needs trust as that could be

considered a 'fraudulent conversion' and I didn't want to have to get into

defending the transfer or risk sabotaging an otherwise properly written special

needs trust. I also did not want to fund the trust and have to deal with tax

reporting and other accounting to Medicaid, Section 8, etc.  When

moved out of our home many years later, I had saved enough money to completely

furnish her new home.  was not able to save the money but by

'charging' her for the food and shelter she received in my home, I was able to

set aside this money for Jen's future.  I

also used a portion of the money Jen paid me for 'rent' to pay the premium on a

2nd to die life insurance policy.  The 2nd to die policy is an excellent method

of funding a special needs trust.  Now that Jen is living separately, I have to

pay the premium on the policy with my own funds but for many years, I was able

to use Jen's rent money for this purpose. 

I would encourage you to continue charging the same amount for housing that

you did when he was on SSI and use this money as a nest egg for his future. 

Terrie Varnet

________________________________

From: Liz <dljar58@...>

IPADDUnite

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 8:45 AM

Subject: Re: New here-Can anyone give me information on SSI Room

and Board

 

When had SSI, I was told by someone at the SSA to do the 1/3 rate for room

& board. Now he has SSDI, so should we be charging him a flat rate?

Thanks,

Liz

[Guest guest]

The ton Social Security office is now asking:

- do you claim your child on your taxes?  & they are asking to see the parent's

tax return.

From: ELLEN BRONFELD <egskb@...>

IPADDUnite

Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 12:51 PM

Subject: Re: New here-Can anyone give me information on SSI Room

and Board

 

I will cut and paste past responses from Sherri Schneider:

The most SSI can award monthly in Illinois in 2009 is $674 for rent, food,

clothes....etc....

If the applicant is living with someone else, SSI does not believe that they

need the whole $674 since he/she is getting rent for free. They value this help

at 1/3. So instead of receiving $674, he/she will now receive $449.34.

If the applicant pays rent, and the rent is above a certain #, then he/she will

received $674

If the applicant pays rent, and the rent is below a certain #, then he/she will

still receive $449.34.

" HELP " always reduces the monthly SSI amount.

I always caution when considering rent. While the applicant receives more in

SSI, there may be a negative impact to the " landlord " (usually the parent). My

accountant reviewed certain questions with me before we made this decision for

our son:

- do I need to claim this rental income on my taxes?

- is my home zoned for rental property?

- will my house's value depreciate when I sell it (rental property)?

- can I still claim my son on my taxes:

telling the IRA that I provide more than 50% of his support

telling SSI that he rents from me (I provide 0 support)

2 different government agencies, 2 different stories & they are both under the

Dept of Treasury.

SSI ONLY looks at the applicant and does not review potential issues to the

landlord.

For rent, I usually ask the family:

- Is this money for housing? housing and food?

- Does he/she have his/her own bedroom? own bathroom?

SSI has a formula that they use to determine if the rent is sufficient and/or if

the applicant is getting " help " . In 2009, I was told by a SSI technical expert

that a rent of $250 would be suficient for housing. I would increase this amount

every year as SSI also increases their formula yearly. My clients usually do not

include food in this amount - this way, the remaining SSI money can be also be

used to purchase food.

From Rubin:

For shared expenses must take into account all, including mortgage and taxes. If

the child's share is in excess of the SSI amount then they are being subsidized

and still lose 1/3. Shared expenses is on method and flat room and board is the

safer method when the shared amount would be higher then the SSI amount - but

that is when the exemption and rent issue come in. Remember I am both a former

IRS agent and a former IRS attorney. I have had to educate many CPAs over the

years. Sherri stated it correctly. We have both seen parents getting burned by

the shared expense method because if you use that method then they have the

right to ask for all utility bills, homeowners insurance, real estate tax,

phone, garbage, as well as food, etc. With the flat rent you don't have to

disclose any of that. So correct that shared expenses means no tax issue, but

beware of the computation.

Rubin

Please let us know if this answers your question.

Ellen

Ellen Garber Bronfeld

egskb@...

[Guest guest]

Since the child is permanently disabled, if the parent can prove more than 50%

support, the parent can claim the child as a dependent.

There is no way $674 a month can provide all of the support of an individual.

>

> The ton Social Security office is now asking:

> - do you claim your child on your taxes?  & they are asking to see the

parent's tax return.

>

> From: ELLEN BRONFELD <egskb@...>

> IPADDUnite

> Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 12:51 PM

> Subject: Re: New here-Can anyone give me information on SSI Room

and Board

>

>

>  

> I will cut and paste past responses from Sherri Schneider:

>

> The most SSI can award monthly in Illinois in 2009 is $674 for rent, food,

clothes....etc....

>

> If the applicant is living with someone else, SSI does not believe that they

need the whole $674 since he/she is getting rent for free. They value this help

at 1/3. So instead of receiving $674, he/she will now receive $449.34.

> If the applicant pays rent, and the rent is above a certain #, then he/she

will received $674

> If the applicant pays rent, and the rent is below a certain #, then he/she

will still receive $449.34.

> " HELP " always reduces the monthly SSI amount.

>

> I always caution when considering rent. While the applicant receives more in

SSI, there may be a negative impact to the " landlord " (usually the parent). My

accountant reviewed certain questions with me before we made this decision for

our son:

> - do I need to claim this rental income on my taxes?

> - is my home zoned for rental property?

> - will my house's value depreciate when I sell it (rental property)?

> - can I still claim my son on my taxes:

> telling the IRA that I provide more than 50% of his support

> telling SSI that he rents from me (I provide 0 support)

> 2 different government agencies, 2 different stories & they are both under the

Dept of Treasury.

>

> SSI ONLY looks at the applicant and does not review potential issues to the

landlord.

>

> For rent, I usually ask the family:

> - Is this money for housing? housing and food?

> - Does he/she have his/her own bedroom? own bathroom?

>

> SSI has a formula that they use to determine if the rent is sufficient and/or

if the applicant is getting " help " . In 2009, I was told by a SSI technical

expert that a rent of $250 would be suficient for housing. I would increase this

amount every year as SSI also increases their formula yearly. My clients usually

do not include food in this amount - this way, the remaining SSI money can be

also be used to purchase food.

>

> From Rubin:

>

> For shared expenses must take into account all, including mortgage and taxes.

If the child's share is in excess of the SSI amount then they are being

subsidized and still lose 1/3. Shared expenses is on method and flat room and

board is the safer method when the shared amount would be higher then the SSI

amount - but that is when the exemption and rent issue come in. Remember I am

both a former IRS agent and a former IRS attorney. I have had to educate many

CPAs over the years. Sherri stated it correctly. We have both seen parents

getting burned by the shared expense method because if you use that method then

they have the right to ask for all utility bills, homeowners insurance, real

estate tax, phone, garbage, as well as food, etc. With the flat rent you don't

have to disclose any of that. So correct that shared expenses means no tax

issue, but beware of the computation.

> Rubin

>

> Please let us know if this answers your question.

> Ellen

> Ellen Garber Bronfeld

> egskb@...

>

>