Prozac

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/23/2006 7:49:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

brufan@... writes:

>Does anyone have any experience with Prozac & OCD?? DS has come off

>Luvox due to side effects & has stated 10 mg Prozac.....how long until

>we can expect to see changes?? His symptoms are mild/ moderate right

>now....Thanks!!

My daughter has been on Prozac since January 2005. It has been a wonder

drug for us. A life-changing experiencing (literally). I know that's not how

it is for everyone, some people have bad side effects from it - some folks

aren't helped by it. Everyone is different.

What I can tell you is we first started seeing the effects of the drug at

20mg/day (into the 2nd month). The changes were small, but helpful. First we

noticed that she was more calm about things - she didn't worry & stress out

over homework or school (which, I might add was an added bonus for us because

stress & worry & school were not the OCD symptoms that brought us to the

doctor for OCD. As it turns out, our dd had OCD symptoms for years & we just

never knew it.)

The issues she had developed that drove us to the doctor for OCD were

contamination based. Hand washing, long showers, etc., later adding to the

mess

checking/rechecking, unnecessary worries, only being able to wear an article of

clothing once (even a jacket) before it was washed, etc.... For the Prozac

to truly start having an effect on THOSE symptoms wasn't until she hit

50mg/day (at 5 months). Prozac is increased very slowly - 10mg per month. But

once she hit that place, it was great. Suddenly the 3+ hour showers turned

into

45min showers... then 30 minute showers. The hand washing practically

stopped altogether. At the end of the week, I'll check her laundry hamper and

there's practically nothing in it - prior to the meds, I would be washing

everything the girl owned about every 3 days because she had nothing left to

wear

(and she has a TON of clothes!!!!)

Anyway, that's our experiencing on Prozac. We've found it to be a blessing

AND a curse, in that, by the time we found a therapist that offered the

treatment she needed (ERP & CBT), her symptoms had all but vanished due to the

meds -- there was nothing left to work with & the therapist actually told us

not

to come in any more because there was nothing she could do to help our dd.

Last month we decided to start decreasing the Prozac 10mg each month until

the symptoms start to resurface so she can go into therapy to learn ERP.

After all, that's what she really needs to get her through life, not meds. You

can't rely solely on meds - they could stop working at any time. You just

never know. Besides, who wants to be on medication for the rest of their

life????

LT

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/23/2006 10:27:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

DebbieZsworld@... writes:

I think we were going on 2 months and had been increasing his dose from 10

mg

to another 10 mg almost every 2 weeks. That got us to 40 mg and we

did that for about 3 weeks more. We didn't see any change in the ocd

rituals, but ... again, I was impatient and would call the doctor

telling him there were no changes. So, as Drs. go, we changed

medicine to no avail, in fact, the mood went bad and anger outbursts

became a norm again. Then, to top it off, my son said that when he

was on the Protac 40 mg, he thought that there were some suttle

changes (he told me there weren't any at the time).

Debbie -

Obviously I'm not a doctor, but I do have to question the quick increases &

only letting your son go to 40mg then switching meds.

Our psychiatrist told us several times that our dd is on a very low dose of

Prozac. Generally, a person will go up to 80mg per day, or higher. She was

very pleased that our daughter responded so well at such a low dose. She

also stressed how very important it is to go slowly with the increases - no

more

than 10mg per month. Apparently this is key. As a matter of fact, I sent

in a question to Dr. Geller on this board regarding the decrease in medication

that we were wanting to do - Dr. Geller also said it's important to go very

slowly - no more than 10mg per month on the decrease.

As I said, we did notice small changes for the better in our daughter

between the 20mg & 40 mg increases, however when we hit 50mg, within maybe 2

weeks

of that increase, we saw the most improvement in the REAL symptoms of

OCD..... showering, hand washing, stress, etc.

Another thing to remember is that these fears & stresses, rituals, etc.,

have such an emotional impact on our kids!! My daughter grew to actually fear

our bathroom! Just thinking of having to go to the bathroom or shower would

put her into tears. Even with the meds working, they require complete support

from parents. My daughter was still hesitant to get into the shower for

several days after she realized she COULD do it.... just because of the

memories

of such horrible experiences over the past several months. Then, those

worries subside & they realize " Hey - I REALLY can do this ANY TIME I want -

not

just that once! "

Had we cut our daughter off Prozac at 40mg, we never would have seen any of

the truly large improvements she made. Also, no matter how anxious you are

to get on with " normal " life.... don't rush the meds. I know there are some

that you can increase at a faster rate, however everything I've heard about

Prozac from our doctor, the doctor on this board & have read.... slow is key.

Just some thoughts on our experience.

LT

[Guest guest]

Dear LT,

This is a great resource for all of us. I have a 15 yr old ocd'r who

also has contamination issues - the hand washing, clothes, and

lately I think it's progressing to the bath time.

We started out on Prozac and worked him up to 40 mg a day. What we

saw was a good change in mood and less angry outbursts. (It's so

hard to know what is ocd and what is teenage defiance). I was

impatient for the medicine to kick in on the rituals - I think we

were going on 2 months and had been increasing his dose from 10 mg

to another 10 mg almost every 2 weeks. That got us to 40 mg and we

did that for about 3 weeks more. We didn't see any change in the ocd

rituals, but ... again, I was impatient and would call the doctor

telling him there were no changes. So, as Drs. go, we changed

medicine to no avail, in fact, the mood went bad and anger outbursts

became a norm again. Then, to top it off, my son said that when he

was on the Protac 40 mg, he thought that there were some suttle

changes (he told me there weren't any at the time).

Sorry this is long winded, but as you probably know, ocd makes us

desperate. So, I was wondering at what point did you see a ritual

change in your daughter? I am thinking that the Dr., and myself,

didn't give the higher dose a chance to work. I know it's a concern

to discuss with the doctor, but, I have lost faith in our doctor and

their therapist who inadvertently made the ocd worse.

My son sees a different therapist, no medication, and not much

desire to do the ERP and CBT therapy. This is such a monster

disorder!

Thanks for relating your experiences with Prozac to me.

Debbie

>

>

> In a message dated 10/23/2006 7:49:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> brufan@... writes:

>

> >Does anyone have any experience with Prozac & OCD?? DS has come

off

> >Luvox due to side effects & has stated 10 mg Prozac.....how long

until

> >we can expect to see changes?? His symptoms are mild/ moderate

right

> >now....Thanks!!

>

>

>

> My daughter has been on Prozac since January 2005. It has been a

wonder

> drug for us. A life-changing experiencing (literally). I know

that's not how

> it is for everyone, some people have bad side effects from it -

some folks

> aren't helped by it. Everyone is different.

>

> What I can tell you is we first started seeing the effects of the

drug at

> 20mg/day (into the 2nd month). The changes were small, but

helpful. First we

> noticed that she was more calm about things - she didn't worry &

stress out

> over homework or school (which, I might add was an added bonus for

us because

> stress & worry & school were not the OCD symptoms that brought us

to the

> doctor for OCD. As it turns out, our dd had OCD symptoms for

years & we just

> never knew it.)

>

> The issues she had developed that drove us to the doctor for OCD

were

> contamination based. Hand washing, long showers, etc., later

adding to the mess

> checking/rechecking, unnecessary worries, only being able to wear

an article of

> clothing once (even a jacket) before it was washed, etc.... For

the Prozac

> to truly start having an effect on THOSE symptoms wasn't until

she hit

> 50mg/day (at 5 months). Prozac is increased very slowly - 10mg

per month. But

> once she hit that place, it was great. Suddenly the 3+ hour

showers turned into

> 45min showers... then 30 minute showers. The hand washing

practically

> stopped altogether. At the end of the week, I'll check her

laundry hamper and

> there's practically nothing in it - prior to the meds, I would be

washing

> everything the girl owned about every 3 days because she had

nothing left to wear

> (and she has a TON of clothes!!!!)

>

> Anyway, that's our experiencing on Prozac. We've found it to be

a blessing

> AND a curse, in that, by the time we found a therapist that

offered the

> treatment she needed (ERP & CBT), her symptoms had all but

vanished due to the

> meds -- there was nothing left to work with & the therapist

actually told us not

> to come in any more because there was nothing she could do to

help our dd.

>

> Last month we decided to start decreasing the Prozac 10mg each

month until

> the symptoms start to resurface so she can go into therapy to

learn ERP.

> After all, that's what she really needs to get her through life,

not meds. You

> can't rely solely on meds - they could stop working at any time.

You just

> never know. Besides, who wants to be on medication for the rest

of their

> life????

> LT

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You should see a gradual improvement over the first 4 weeks. My son

has been on Prozac for 3 weeks now (on 10mg for 2) he is still getting

better although we have a way to go.

Bonnie

>

> Does anyone have any experience with Prozac & OCD?? DS has come off

> Luvox due to side effects & has stated 10 mg Prozac.....how long

until

> we can expect to see changes?? His symptoms are mild/ moderate right

> now....Thanks!!

>

[Guest guest]

Our experience with Prozac: We switched our then 9 yr. old over from

Celexa (never helped much) to Prozac. She was in a terrible way

OCD-wise and was highly anxious all day. She remained extremely anxious

over the first 6 weeks as we went from 10-30 mgs. At the 6 week mark

she improved tremendously. The anxiety seemed to melt away. She had

continual improvement over the next 6 weeks and remained on 30 mgs. She

had a relapse last spring and we upped to 50 mgs. She is now back to

very low anxiety without obsessive thoughts.

I thought the first 6 weeks that we werent' going to make it, she was so

anxious, but I'm glad we stuck it out because it's been a great

medication for her. She's now 11 1/2.

Dina

[Guest guest]

My daughter started Prozac when she was a few months past her 9th birthday,

after a HORRIBLE trial on Zoloft (although, to be fair, it may be that the dose

just wasn't high enough to do anything). She started at, I think, 20 mg and has

worked up to 60 (which is where she has been for over a year now). We saw pretty

dramatic improvement within the first week or two. However, I think others on

this list have said that their child either saw no results, it took a while or

had a reaction. So each child/person really is different. I can only say that it

has been a " miracle drug " for L.

P.

Ethyl <brufan@...> wrote:

Does anyone have any experience with Prozac & OCD?? DS has come off

Luvox due to side effects & has stated 10 mg Prozac.....how long until

we can expect to see changes?? His symptoms are mild/ moderate right

now....Thanks!!

---------------------------------

All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

My 11 y.o. daughter has been on a low dose of prozac for a little over a

year. She actually noticed a difference within the first week. She started on

10 mg. and we upped it to 20 mg. within a few mos. She's been on this low

dose ever since. We added .25 of risperdal about 6 mos. ago.

My 14 y.o. daughter was on 40 mg. prozac (as well as seroquel and busbar

at the time) after being on 200 mg. zoloft. We eventually had to take her

off prozac because she was getting too hyper. She's now on Luvox. I was

curious as to what side effects your son had on Luvox? was on 200 mg.

and

is now on 150 luvox plus 150 effexor (plus 200 seroquel plus 40 buspar).

Suzanne in CA

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to thank you all for your responses...this group is most

helpful & we are most grateful!!

[Guest guest]

My dd, 11 y/o is on 7.5 mg prozac. We started on 5 mg. This is our

miracle drug. Angry outbursts are virtually non-existent, rages are

gone. Reassurance and anxiety are minimal. She's 56 pounds. We tried

her at 10 mg, she said she felt " shaky " and her head felt " wobbly, "

yet she had a cold coming on. 7.5 mg is our magic ticket. At first, I

didn't know how much we'd have to go up. Prozac is also the most-

tested SSRI in kids. Good luck to you... keep us posted.

[Guest guest]

My dd, 11 y/o is on 7.5 mg prozac. We started on 5 mg. This is our

miracle drug. Angry outbursts are virtually non-existent, rages are

gone. Reassurance and anxiety are minimal. She's 56 pounds. We tried

her at 10 mg, she said she felt " shaky " and her head felt " wobbly, "

yet she had a cold coming on. 7.5 mg is our magic ticket. At first, I

didn't know how much we'd have to go up. Prozac is also the most-

tested SSRI in kids. Good luck to you... keep us posted.

[Guest guest]

We also had noticed the mood swings were less on the prozac but the

rituals/obsessions did not change with the prozac. We are now weaning him of it

and will start something new next visit......... Having said that it did help

with the vomiting as well. But his OCD issues are still to bad and they don't

want to increase it anymore because of the other meds he is on for TS and ADHD.

Cheers Jackie (New Zealand)

[Guest guest]

Funny you responded to my post about prozac from a few years ago (my

then 14 yr old dd is now 18-Can't believe we've been at this with so

much uncertainty for so long) b/c she is just now going on prozac

again(was the first med she ever tried when 14). She is more

determined to wait out side effects if neccesary (and it is making

her sleepy again) so your post was encouraging...

nancy grace

> > Hello,

> > I joined the group recently. I have a 15 year old struggling with

> obvious OCD since fifth grade. I do not ever see Prozac mentioned

as

> a treatment drug and was wondering why. We seem to be having some

> success with it - at least in minimizing the more obvious

> compulsions like constant hand washing. He began taking it after a

> harrowing middle school period-- near hospitalization for eating

> disorder and the like.went off it for awhile and is now back on by

> his own choice.

> > Thanks,

> > Judy

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This has not been researched yet, correct? A very educated guess at this point? If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives.I don't disagree that you can only 'do so much' with stimulation. I would assume that if you start at lower level , you can only climb so high in your lifetime. I would assume that would be true for all of us. :-) Adding a compound that actually gave you more raw materials to work would obviously be of great benefit. I wonder if prozac would make anyone smarter over time then???? Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasayMom to seven including , 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - Down Syndrome Treatment/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic----- Original Message ----From: teresa.cody <teresa.cody@...>To:

Down Syndrome Treatment Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2008 7:23:21 AMSubject: Prozac

Carol wrote:

Ya i hear you about the prozac, but if it truly does grow new nerve

cells, it might well only do good things for their brains. I have taken

the tact of growing connections by exposing her to many new things and

be in circumstances a bit out of her level of comfort. There is so much

talk about neuroplasiticy out there now, it seems like the prudent

thing to do and no side effects, except for a tired mother

That is the idea of an enriched environment and absolutely it helps but

if you look at Dr. Gould's work there is probably a limit to how much

it will help.

Dr. Gould notes that the animals she tests lose neurons and replace

them on an ongoing basis. However, if the number of neurons drops below

a certain level the brain appears to go into a defensive mode and

directs all its energy into maintenance of the existing supply, and

stops the generation of the new replacements. This leads to further

neurodegeneration. In effect this would describe the situation with the

Down syndrome brain which has only ½ the normal neuron supply from

birth. If so, building to the full neuron level with Prozac could

overcome this source of neurodegeneration.

www.changingmindsfo undation. com

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[Guest guest]

They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome.

If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives.

..

[Guest guest]

Though they may have clinical signs of AD in their brains, not all have clinical symptoms of decline.According to Dr. Chicoine here at the Adult Clinic, who sees 3000 patients and maintains a data base, the incident of AD in the DS population is the same as the gen public. Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasayMom to seven including , 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - Down Syndrome Treatment/ Listen to oldest dd's

music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic----- Original Message ----From: Roquemores <dtroquemore@...>Down Syndrome Treatment Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2008 10:16:32 PMSubject: Re: Prozac

They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome.

If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives.

..

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

was talking about this with me, and though your statement has been my thought and hope, she's got some documentation that states different.

Again, it's my hope and that's why we're on the protocol.

Though they may have clinical signs of AD in their brains, not all have clinical symptoms of decline.According to Dr. Chicoine here at the Adult Clinic, who sees 3000 patients and maintains a data base, the incident of AD in the DS population is the same as the gen public.

..

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I have read that about all of the brains showing signs of

AD, but not all people w/Ds have clinical signs/symptoms of AD, right?

You know…as I was writing this, I thought of my BIL w/Ds.

He is 50, and when he was in his early 40’s, he was diagnosed with AD (by

a neurologist,,,by symptoms of dementia,,did not have an MRI) so maybe he did

not actually have it…..he was also having thyroid medicine dosing

problems at that time….Anyway…he was started on Exelon(drug for AD),

which worked great for about a year…then he was really slowed down and

sluggish, so the doc thought that he needed an SSRI,so he was put on Zoloft….then

Reminyl (another drug for AD) came out, so the doc switched him to Reminyl,

because he was having such great results with that in other patients…my

BIL has been on Reminyl for a few years now, and is doing well,,,he has no signs

of dementia, his speech is better than I have ever known it in the 28 yrs I have

known him (more intelligible) He is active, goes to work every day at a

sheltered workshop, has hobbies,etc….

From:

Down Syndrome Treatment

[mailto:Down Syndrome Treatment ] On Behalf Of Roquemores

Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 11:17 PM

Down Syndrome Treatment

Subject: Re: Prozac

They

are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information

such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has

AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome.

If

that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually?

I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to

understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their

lives.

..

[Guest guest]

It was my understanding that all kids with DS have a decline as they age. Does any one have a child that is at it's age. I mean acts and behaves as say. A teenager in every degree.... ?? On Prozac or any other protocol? I know I can see that Amber acts as maybe a 3 1/2 yr. old . She is 5 1/2. She is on the money with some things. But then there are days where she is off. And since this is a medicine do you get to where you have to keep bumping the dosage because they get used to it?? Just wondering what kind of dose they would be on when they get older. Or maybe by then they will have something new out. Just my thoughts... And when do you decide if to much is to much. I mean with medicines & vitamins. Can you over do it with any of this ?? That is the only worry I have . Sometimes I feel like I overwhelm her body with all the stuff I give her at her age. I know it's suppose to be all good. But still I worry. Carol P. Carol in IL <ps1272000@...> wrote: Though they may have clinical signs of AD in their brains, not all have clinical symptoms of decline.According to Dr. Chicoine here at the Adult Clinic, who sees 3000

patients and maintains a data base, the incident of AD in the DS population is the same as the gen public. Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasayMom to seven including , 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - Down Syndrome Treatment/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic Re: Prozac They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome. If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain

the same level all their lives. . Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Hugs, Carol P. AIM iammamapie Giga iammamapie

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

[Guest guest]

Carol P said: And when do you decide if to much is to

much. I mean with medicines &

vitamins. Can you over do it with any of this ??

That is the only worry I have . Sometimes I feel like

I overwhelm her body with

all the stuff I give her at her age. I know it's suppose

to be all good.

But still I worry. “”

I was going to post something about this today, too..I am

interested in giving Danny every advantage, of course, but I also worry about

safety. (and I know we all do….so,,,those of you who are using it, how

did you deal with that? What convinced you that it was safe to try? What are

the known adverse effects? Has anyone had to stop the protocol due to

side effects?

From:

Down Syndrome Treatment

[mailto:Down Syndrome Treatment ] On Behalf Of iammamapie

Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:49 PM

Down Syndrome Treatment

Subject: Re: Prozac

It was my understanding that all kids with DS have a decline

as they age.

Does any one have a child that is at it's age. I mean

acts and behaves as say.

A teenager in every degree.... ?? On Prozac or any

other protocol?

I know I can see that Amber acts as maybe a 3 1/2 yr.

old . She is 5 1/2.

She is on the money with some things. But then there

are days where she is off.

And since this is a medicine do you get to where you have to

keep bumping the dosage

because they get used to it?? Just wondering what kind

of dose they would be on when they get older. Or maybe by then they will

have something new out.

Just my thoughts...

And when do you decide if to much is to much. I mean

with medicines &

vitamins. Can you over do it with any of this ??

That is the only worry I have . Sometimes I feel like

I overwhelm her body with

all the stuff I give her at her age. I know it's suppose

to be all good.

But still I worry.

Carol P.

Carol in IL <ps1272000@...> wrote:

Though they may have clinical signs of AD in

their brains, not all have clinical symptoms of decline.

According to Dr. Chicoine here at the Adult Clinic, who sees 3000

patients and maintains a data base, the incident of AD in the DS population is

the same as the gen public.

Carol in IL

AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasay

Mom to seven including

, 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.

My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me.

Join

our Down Syndrome information group -

Down Syndrome Treatment/

Listen

to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic

Re: Prozac

They

are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such

as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has

AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome.

If

that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline

intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very

telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all

their lives.

..

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with

Mobile. Try

it now.

Hugs, Carol P.

AIM iammamapie

Giga iammamapie

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find

them fast with Search.

[Guest guest]

I am not trying to be facecious but I want everyone to ask themselves other questions. Is it dangerous not to treat? Gould's research showed that below a certain neuron count the brain literally goes into safe mode and quits making neurons. So if the person with DS does not have a preset minimum their brain will not help them. Can treating early reverse or postpone the early decline? Is it a numbers game? If one has more neurons to lose, maybe symptoms of decline can be postponed. Benefits to risk ratio? lin always took a piece of paper put a line down the middle and listed pros and cons. One may get some minor side effects- can you live with them? One of my father's favorite sayings is "Don't let the best be the enemy of the good!!!!" This protocol may not be the best that will ever be discovered but it is good. Kathy Ratkiewicz <Kathy_R@...> wrote: Carol P said: And when do you decide if to much is to much. I mean with medicines & vitamins. Can you over do it with any of

this ?? That is the only worry I have . Sometimes I feel like I overwhelm her body with all the stuff I give her at her age. I know it's suppose to be all good. But still I worry. “” I was going to post something about this today, too..I am interested in giving Danny every advantage, of course, but I also worry about safety. (and I know we all do….so,,,those of you who are using it, how did you deal with that? What convinced you that it was safe to try? What are the known adverse effects? Has anyone had to stop the protocol due to side effects? From: Down Syndrome Treatment [mailto:Down Syndrome Treatment ] On Behalf Of iammamapieSent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:49 PMDown Syndrome Treatment Subject: Re: Prozac It was my understanding that all kids with DS have a decline as they age. Does any one have a child that is at it's age. I mean acts and behaves as say. A teenager in every degree.... ?? On Prozac or any other protocol? I know I can see that Amber acts as maybe a 3 1/2 yr. old . She is 5 1/2. She is on the money with some things. But then there are days where she is off. And since this is a medicine do you get to where you have to keep bumping the dosage because they get used to it?? Just wondering what kind of dose they would be on when they get older. Or maybe by then they will have something new out. Just my thoughts... And when do you decide if to much is to

much. I mean with medicines & vitamins. Can you over do it with any of this ?? That is the only worry I have . Sometimes I feel like I overwhelm her body with all the stuff I give her at her age. I know it's suppose to be all good. But still I worry. Carol P. Carol in IL <ps1272000 > wrote: Though they may have clinical signs of AD in their brains, not all have clinical symptoms of decline.According to Dr. Chicoine here at the Adult Clinic, who

sees 3000 patients and maintains a data base, the incident of AD in the DS population is the same as the gen public. Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasayMom to seven including , 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - Down Syndrome Treatment/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic Re: Prozac They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome. If that were

true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives. . Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Hugs, Carol P. AIM iammamapie Giga iammamapie Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

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[Guest guest]

But, some of the deline that is seen or isn't seen in DS could be due to the environment around them. Things such as nutrition, where they live, etc *could* have to do with it. That's what Epigenetics are (http://gotdownsyndrome.blogspot.com/2007/02/epigenetics.html). Outside sources influence the DNA and it makes all kinds of changes, be it certain diseases or whatever it may be. Just something I thought of.

Qadoshyah

Book ~ Down Syndrome: What You CAN Dowww.gotdownsyndrome.net/Book/whatyoucandobook.html

Prozac

Carol wrote:Ya i hear you about the prozac, but if it truly does grow new nerve cells, it might well only do good things for their brains. I have taken the tact of growing connections by exposing her to many new things and be in circumstances a bit out of her level of comfort. There is so much talk about neuroplasiticy out there now, it seems like the prudent thing to do and no side effects, except for a tired mother That is the idea of an enriched environment and absolutely it helps but if you look at Dr. Gould's work there is probably a limit to how much it will help.Dr. Gould notes that the animals she tests lose neurons and replace them on an ongoing basis. However, if the number of neurons drops below a certain level the brain appears to go into a defensive mode and directs all its energy into maintenance of the existing supply, and stops the generation of the new replacements. This leads to further neurodegeneration. In effect this would describe the situation with the Down syndrome brain which has only ½ the normal neuron supply from birth. If so, building to the full neuron level with Prozac could overcome this source of neurodegeneration. www.changingmindsfo undation. com

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I just returned from vacation and find this a very interesting thread, and love it that is so proactive and paving a great way with some great research!

We were one of the first families to jump on the TNI bandwagon years ago, and my son has been on Nutrivene-D since International Nutrition began compounding it...before that was the one from Canada.

He has also been on Piracetam, and last year changed to Namenda.

Do you think that Prozac should be used with Namenda at the same time? Or is your child too young for Namenda?

Thanks for all the work you have done.

, Mom to 14, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre

Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

Re: Prozac

They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome.

If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives.

..

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

Hugs, Carol P.

AIM iammamapie

Giga iammamapie

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Thanks…I hope that you don’t think that I am being critical of

the Changing Minds protocol, because I am not, at all…I am very excited by the

prospect of what you are doing….but I am also a chicken when it comes to stuff

like this, and I like to ask a lot of questions…so please bear with me, ok?;-)

Thanks for joining us here and letting us pick your brain..it is

much appreciated.

kathyR

From: Down Syndrome Treatment

[mailto:Down Syndrome Treatment ] On Behalf Of

Cody

Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 4:42 PM

Down Syndrome Treatment

Subject: RE: Prozac

I am not trying to be facecious but I want everyone to ask

themselves other questions.

Is it dangerous not to treat? Gould's

research showed that below a certain neuron count the brain literally goes into

safe mode and quits making neurons. So if the person with DS does not have a

preset minimum their brain will not help them.

Can treating early reverse or postpone the early

decline? Is it a numbers game? If one has more neurons to lose, maybe

symptoms of decline can be postponed.

Benefits to risk ratio? lin always took a

piece of paper put a line down the middle and listed pros and cons. One

may get some minor side effects- can you live with them?

One of my father's favorite sayings is " Don't

let the best be the enemy of the good!!!! "

This protocol may not be the best that will ever be

discovered but it is good.

Kathy Ratkiewicz <Kathy_R@...> wrote:

Carol P said:

And when do you decide if to much is to much. I mean with medicines &

vitamins. Can you over do it with any of this ??

That is the only worry I have . Sometimes I feel like

I overwhelm her body with

all the stuff I give her at her age. I know it's

suppose to be all good.

But still I worry. “”

I was going to

post something about this today, too..I am interested in giving Danny every

advantage, of course, but I also worry about safety. (and I know we all

do….so,,,those of you who are using it, how did you deal with that? What

convinced you that it was safe to try? What are the known adverse effects?

Has anyone had to stop the protocol due to side effects?

From: Down Syndrome Treatment

[mailto:Down Syndrome Treatment ] On Behalf Of iammamapie

Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:49 PM

Down Syndrome Treatment

Subject: Re: Prozac

It was my understanding that all kids with DS have a decline

as they age.

Does any one have a child that is at it's age. I mean

acts and behaves as say.

A teenager in every degree.... ?? On Prozac or any

other protocol?

I know I can see that Amber acts as maybe a 3 1/2 yr.

old . She is 5 1/2.

She is on the money with some things. But then there

are days where she is off.

And since this is a medicine do you get to where you have to

keep bumping the dosage

because they get used to it?? Just wondering what kind

of dose they would be on when they get older. Or maybe by then they will

have something new out.

Just my thoughts...

And when do you decide if to much is to much. I mean

with medicines &

vitamins. Can you over do it with any of this ??

That is the only worry I have . Sometimes I feel like

I overwhelm her body with

all the stuff I give her at her age. I know it's

suppose to be all good.

But still I worry.

Carol P.

Carol in IL <ps1272000@...> wrote:

Though they may have clinical

signs of AD in their brains, not all have clinical symptoms of decline.

According to Dr. Chicoine here at the Adult Clinic, who sees 3000

patients and maintains a data base, the incident of AD in the DS population is

the same as the gen public.

Carol in

IL

AIM

doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasay

Mom to seven including , 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma,

subglottal stenosis, and DS.

My problem

is not how I look. It's how you see me.

Join our Down Syndrome

information group -

Down Syndrome Treatment/

Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic

Re: Prozac

They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into

this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined

in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st

chromosome.

If that were true, wouldn't

all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do

have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some

decline while others maintain the same level all their lives.

..

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with

Mobile. Try

it now.

Hugs,

Carol P.

AIM iammamapie

Giga iammamapie

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find

them fast with Search.

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them fast with Search.

[Guest guest]

No I didn't take it critically I just think we should ask questions from the other direction. Neal was never going to read. He was never going to speak w/ more than one word. He couldn't count passed 10. He really couldn't play games w/ us or participate. He is so much happier because he can and does join in w/ the family. He can express himself so much better. Any way I want all these kids to have this, Kathy Ratkiewicz <Kathy_R@...> wrote: Thanks…I hope that you don’t think that I am being critical of the Changing Minds protocol, because I am not, at all…I am very excited by the prospect of what you are doing….but I am also a chicken when it comes to stuff like this, and I like to ask a lot of questions…so please bear with me, ok?;-) Thanks for joining us here and letting us pick your brain..it is much appreciated. kathyR From: Down Syndrome Treatment [mailto:Down Syndrome Treatment ]

On Behalf Of CodySent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 4:42 PMDown Syndrome Treatment Subject: RE: Prozac I am not trying to be facecious but I want everyone to ask themselves other questions. Is it dangerous not to treat? Gould's research showed that below a certain neuron count the brain literally goes into safe mode and quits making neurons. So if the person with DS does not have a preset minimum their brain will not help them. Can treating early reverse or postpone the early decline? Is it a

numbers game? If one has more neurons to lose, maybe symptoms of decline can be postponed. Benefits to risk ratio? lin always took a piece of paper put a line down the middle and listed pros and cons. One may get some minor side effects- can you live with them? One of my father's favorite sayings is "Don't let the best be the enemy of the good!!!!" This protocol may not be the best that will ever be discovered but it is good. Kathy Ratkiewicz

<Kathy_Rcomcast (DOT) net> wrote: Carol P said: And when do you decide if to much is to much. I mean with medicines & vitamins. Can you over do it with any of this ?? That is the only worry I have . Sometimes I feel like I overwhelm her body with all the stuff I give her at her age. I know it's suppose to be all good. But still I worry. “” I was going to post something about this today, too..I am interested in giving Danny every advantage, of course, but I

also worry about safety. (and I know we all do….so,,,those of you who are using it, how did you deal with that? What convinced you that it was safe to try? What are the known adverse effects? Has anyone had to stop the protocol due to side effects? From: Down Syndrome Treatment [mailto:Down Syndrome Treatment ] On Behalf Of iammamapieSent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:49 PMDown Syndrome Treatment Subject: Re: Prozac It was my understanding that all kids with DS have a decline as they

age. Does any one have a child that is at it's age. I mean acts and behaves as say. A teenager in every degree.... ?? On Prozac or any other protocol? I know I can see that Amber acts as maybe a 3 1/2 yr. old . She is 5 1/2. She is on the money with some things. But then there are days where she is off. And since this is a medicine do you get to where you have to keep bumping the dosage because they get used to it?? Just wondering what kind of dose they would be on when they get older. Or maybe by then they will have something new out. Just my thoughts... And when do you decide if to much is to much. I mean with medicines & vitamins. Can you over do it with any of this ?? That is the only worry I have . Sometimes I feel like I overwhelm her body with all the stuff I give her at her age. I know it's suppose to be all good. But still I worry. Carol P. Carol in IL <ps1272000 > wrote: Though they may have clinical signs of AD in their brains, not all have clinical symptoms of decline.According to Dr. Chicoine here at the Adult Clinic, who sees 3000 patients and maintains a data base, the incident of AD in the DS population is the same as the gen public. Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasayMom to seven including , 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - Down Syndrome Treatment/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic Re: Prozac They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome. If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives. . Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Hugs, Carol P. AIM iammamapie Giga iammamapie Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

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[Guest guest]

, I'm glad for the work you are doing. If it weren't for certain people 10+ years ago we wouldn't have TNI that I know has tremendously helped my brother. We do give my brother the GB, but I'm just skeptical on some of the things .

Qadoshyah

Re: Prozac

They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome.

If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives.

..

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

Hugs, Carol P.

AIM iammamapie

Giga iammamapie

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

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Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1211 - Release Date: 1/6/2008 11:57 AM