Prozac

January 7, 2008

Qadoshyah, It is good to be skeptical and read and research. Your brother has plenty of time. Just keep thinking. Qadoshyah <feargod@...> wrote: , I'm glad for the work you are doing. If it weren't for certain people 10+ years ago we wouldn't have TNI that I know has tremendously helped my brother. We do give my brother the GB, but I'm just skeptical on some of the things . Qadoshyah Re: Prozac They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has

AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome. If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives. . Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Hugs, Carol P. AIM iammamapie Giga iammamapie Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1211 - Release Date: 1/6/2008 11:57 AM

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January 7, 2008

That is my son now. So did CM help. Is he able to speak more than one word? Can he play games? Thanks Lori Dunn Cody <teresa.cody@...> wrote: No I didn't take it critically I just think we should ask questions from the other direction. Neal was never going to read. He was never going to speak w/ more than one word. He couldn't count passed 10. He really couldn't play games w/ us or participate. He is so much happier because he can

and does join in w/ the family. He can express himself so much better. Any way I want all these kids to have this, Kathy Ratkiewicz <Kathy_Rcomcast (DOT) net> wrote: Thanks…I hope that you don’t think that I am being critical of the Changing Minds protocol, because I am not, at all…I am very excited by the prospect of what you are doing….but I am also a chicken when it comes to stuff like this, and I like to ask a lot of questions…so please bear with me, ok?;-) Thanks for joining us here and letting us pick your brain..it is much appreciated. kathyR From: Down Syndrome Treatment [mailto:Down Syndrome Treatment ] On Behalf Of CodySent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 4:42 PMDown Syndrome Treatment Subject: RE: Prozac I am not trying to be facecious but I want everyone to ask themselves other questions. Is it dangerous not to treat? Gould's research showed that

below a certain neuron count the brain literally goes into safe mode and quits making neurons. So if the person with DS does not have a preset minimum their brain will not help them. Can treating early reverse or postpone the early decline? Is it a numbers game? If one has more neurons to lose, maybe symptoms of decline can be postponed. Benefits to risk ratio? lin always took a piece of paper put a line down the middle and listed pros and cons. One may get some minor side effects- can you live with them? One of my father's favorite sayings is "Don't let the best be the enemy of the

good!!!!" This protocol may not be the best that will ever be discovered but it is good. Kathy Ratkiewicz <Kathy_Rcomcast (DOT) net> wrote: Carol P said: And when do you decide if to much is to much. I mean with medicines & vitamins. Can you over do it with any of this ?? That is the only worry I have . Sometimes I feel like I overwhelm her body with all the stuff I give her at her

age. I know it's suppose to be all good. But still I worry. “” I was going to post something about this today, too..I am interested in giving Danny every advantage, of course, but I also worry about safety. (and I know we all do….so,,,those of you who are using it, how did you deal with that? What convinced you that it was safe to try? What are the known adverse effects? Has anyone had to stop the protocol due to side effects? From: Down Syndrome Treatment [mailto:Down Syndrome Treatment ] On Behalf Of iammamapieSent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:49 PMTo:

Down Syndrome Treatment Subject: Re: Prozac It was my understanding that all kids with DS have a decline as they age. Does any one have a child that is at it's age. I mean acts and behaves as say. A teenager in every degree.... ?? On Prozac or any other protocol? I know I can see that Amber acts as maybe a 3 1/2 yr. old . She is 5 1/2. She is on the money with some things. But then there are days where she is off. And since this is a medicine do

you get to where you have to keep bumping the dosage because they get used to it?? Just wondering what kind of dose they would be on when they get older. Or maybe by then they will have something new out. Just my thoughts... And when do you decide if to much is to much. I mean with medicines & vitamins. Can you over do it with any of this ?? That is the only worry I have . Sometimes I feel like I overwhelm her body with all the stuff I give her at her age. I know it's suppose to be all good. But

still I worry. Carol P. Carol in IL <ps1272000 > wrote: Though they may have clinical signs of AD in their brains, not all have clinical symptoms of decline.According to Dr. Chicoine here at the Adult Clinic, who sees 3000 patients and maintains a data base, the incident of AD in the DS population is the same as the gen public. Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe

doihavtasayMom to seven including , 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - Down Syndrome Treatment/ Listen to oldest dd's

music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic Re: Prozac They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome. If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow

steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives. . Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Hugs, Carol P. AIM iammamapie Giga iammamapie Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

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January 7, 2008

As for language, and speaking more than one word sentences, Piracetam helped my son greatly...2 weeks after starting it at age 2.5 he was talking in 3 word sentences (only one word before)

Then last summer when we started Namenda (discontinued Piracetam) at age 13.5, wow...the sentence structure and complexity of the words used is still amazing us!

, Mom to 14, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre

Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

Re: Prozac

They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome.

If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives.

..

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Hugs, Carol P.

AIM iammamapie

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January 7, 2008

Boy, can he speak more than one word!! And definitely play games. Has even expressed himself with choosing a girlfriend! :-)

We've met with , et al, a number of times, and Neal has got to be one of the most polite young men with DS that I've met in a long time. Holds conversations. Has a wonderful sense of humor too.

But I'll let his mom brag on him now!

Tina

January 7, 2008

I would like you to help me with all of the supplements. Do you think the prozac made the biggest difference? I will call the doctors you gave me. Thanks, LoriRoquemores <dtroquemore@...> wrote: Boy, can he speak more than one word!! And definitely play games. Has even expressed himself with choosing a girlfriend! :-) We've met with , et al, a number of times,

and Neal has got to be one of the most polite young men with DS that I've met in a long time. Holds conversations. Has a wonderful sense of humor too. But I'll let his mom brag on him now! Tina

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January 7, 2008

Where do you get the Piractem and Namenda? Thanks, Lori McElwee <sandra.mcelwee@...> wrote: As for language, and speaking more than one word sentences, Piracetam helped my son greatly...2 weeks after starting it at age 2.5 he was talking in 3 word sentences (only one word before) Then last summer when we started Namenda (discontinued Piracetam) at

age 13.5, wow...the sentence structure and complexity of the words used is still amazing us! , Mom to 14, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html Re: Prozac They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have

examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome. If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives. . Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Hugs, Carol P. AIM iammamapie Giga iammamapie Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

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January 7, 2008

International Nutrition has Piracetam, and it doesn't require a prescription anymore.

Namenda still has to be prescribed...any pharmacy has it and our insurance is paying for it!

Dr.Leightman wrote the prescription for it, but other doctors write it too...he wanted to wait till after Puberty for the Namenda.

Also, FYI the Piracetam can exacerbate autistic tendencies. So if there are any, consider that they may get worse with Piracetam.

, Mom to 14, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre

Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

Re: Prozac

They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome.

If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives.

..

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Hugs, Carol P.

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January 7, 2008

On the issue of the prevalence of Alzheimer-type dementia among people living

with Down syndrome (something that is quite different from the incidence of

Alzheimer-like neuropathology in people with Down syndrome who have passed

away), Len Leshin's December 2007 'Abstract of the month' helpfully highlights a

large Dutch study of dementia -

http://www.ds-health.com/abst/a0712.htm

This is a large and recent study that uses modern diagnostic criteria - all

worth bearing in mind when contrasting with older studies. When carefully

assessed, the prevalence of Alzheimer-type dementia among modern populations is

not as high as once thought.

There is no evidence of general 'cognitive decline' as a result of having Down

syndrome. A decline in IQ scores is sometimes misinterpreted to indicate a

decline in abilities. This is incorrect - see the following for more detail on

this confusion -

http://www.down-syndrome.org/information/development/overview/?page=4

All modern research evidence suggests that with appropriate opportunities people

with Down syndrome can continue to develop and learn throughout childhood,

adolescence and through their adult years.

My sister is approaching 40, is still acquiring new skills and shows no sign of

decline in function. She is pretty typical of her generation.

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes,

The Down Syndrome Educational Trust

http://www.downsed.org/ | http://www.down-syndrome.org/

Registered charity no. 1062823.

--------------------------------------------------

From: Down Syndrome Treatment On Behalf Of Roquemores

Sent: 06 January 2008 04:52

Down Syndrome Treatment

Subject: Re: Prozac

was talking about this with me, and though your statement has been my

thought and hope, she's got some documentation that states different.

Again, it's my hope and that's why we're on the protocol.

--------------------------------------------------

Though they may have clinical signs of AD in their brains, not all have clinical

symptoms of decline.

According to Dr. Chicoine here at the Adult Clinic, who sees 3000 patients and

maintains a data base, the incident of AD in the DS population is the same as

the gen public.

....

January 7, 2008

I wonder if there are any contradictions in doing both Piractem and Prozac at the same time? Do you have the website to International Nutrition? Also, my son is 8 and about 70 pounds. What dosage do you think he would be on? Thanks, Lori McElwee <sandra.mcelwee@...> wrote: International Nutrition has Piracetam, and it doesn't require a prescription anymore. Namenda still has to be

prescribed...any pharmacy has it and our insurance is paying for it! Dr.Leightman wrote the prescription for it, but other doctors write it too...he wanted to wait till after Puberty for the Namenda. Also, FYI the Piracetam can exacerbate autistic tendencies. So if there are any, consider that they may get worse with Piracetam. , Mom to 14, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html Re: Prozac They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome. If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have

that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives. . Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Hugs, Carol P. AIM iammamapie Giga iammamapie Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

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January 7, 2008

Don't know.

I still need a little more info on the Prozac...we had the same results reported with the Piracetam...

International Nutrition's site:

http://www.nutrivene.com/

Definately consult a doctor before begining any protocol, and if you don't have one locally that is open minded, I recommend Dr. Leightman, he does clinics all over the US.

, Mom to 14

, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre

Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

Re: Prozac

They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome.

If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives.

..

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

Hugs, Carol P.

AIM iammamapie

Giga iammamapie

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January 8, 2008

Thanks Tina!! Lori, he is capable of much more expression but that came in the last 6 -8 months (after 1 year on everything). He really did not use more than one word sentences before, except the memorized sentence "May I have more juice, please." But if he was constructing the sentence, he did not use more than one or two words. He is still unsure of syntax or sentence structure and he will throw out many words because he knows he needs to use them but they are random. One thing is everyone (in public) understands him now, articulation is better. He can order his own food, drink etc. The other big change if he is trying to tell you something he will elaborate to explain himself. He will give you details to get his point across. Word retrieval is still hard but getting better and better. From what describes her daughter

was talking better much sooner but that is why I say you have to compare them to themselves. For Neal, he is so much more verbally expressive. Lori Dunn <ladunn07@...> wrote: I would like you to help me with all of the supplements. Do you think the prozac made the biggest difference? I will call the doctors you gave me. Thanks, LoriRoquemores <dtroquemoregmail>

wrote: Boy, can he speak more than one word!! And definitely play games. Has even expressed himself with choosing a girlfriend! :-) We've met with , et al, a number of times, and Neal has got to be one of the most polite young men with DS that I've met in a long time. Holds conversations. Has a wonderful sense of humor too. But I'll let his mom brag on him now! Tina Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

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January 8, 2008

s,

Can you elaborate on the effects of prozac on the brain other than

neurogenesis? I have read and heard that if you use prozac, you have

to be comfortable with the fact that it will produce changes, perhaps

permament, to the brain. What are these changes? Also, I have read

in books and on the internet that prozac fools the brain into

believing that there is plenty of seratonin and so it stops producing

seratonin, leading to a seratonin deficiency. Do these changes

happen at certain doses? We have talked about neurogenesis and side

effects, but we haven't addressed the other changes that prozac may

bring about.

Marsha

> Boy, can he speak more than one word!! And definitely play

games. Has even expressed himself with choosing a girlfriend! :-)

> We've met with , et al, a number of times, and Neal has got

to be one of the most polite young men with DS that I've met in a

long time. Holds conversations. Has a wonderful sense of humor too.

> But I'll let his mom brag on him now!

> Tina

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with

Mobile. Try it now.

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

Search.

>

January 8, 2008

, Did you have any noticable results with the Piractam. I have heard both for and against the Piracetam too. But since you are using it, has it made a difference? Lori McElwee <sandra.mcelwee@...> wrote: Don't know. I still need a little more info on the Prozac...we had the same results reported with the Piracetam... International Nutrition's site: http://www.nutrivene.com/ Definately consult a doctor before begining any protocol, and if you don't have one locally that is open minded, I recommend Dr. Leightman, he does clinics all over the US. , Mom to 14 , DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html Re: Prozac They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome. If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives. . Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Hugs, Carol P. AIM iammamapie Giga iammamapie Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Looking for last

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January 8, 2008

Hold old is Neal?

My little guy is only 3 Re: ProzacDown Syndrome Treatment > Thanks Tina!! Lori, he is capable of much more expression but > that came in the last 6 -8 months (after 1 year on everything). > He really did not use more than one word sentences before, > except the memorized sentence "May I have more juice, please." > But if he was constructing the sentence, he did not use more > than one or two words.> > He is still unsure of syntax or sentence structure and he will > throw out many words because he knows he needs to use them but > they are random. > > One thing is everyone (in public) understands him now, > articulation is better. He can order his own food, drink etc.> > The other big change if he is trying to tell you something he > will elaborate to explain himself. He will give you details to > get his point across.> > Word retrieval is still hard but getting better and better. > > From what describes her daughter was talking better > much sooner but that is why I say you have to compare them to > themselves. For Neal, he is so much more verbally expressive.> > > Lori Dunn wrote:> I would like you to help me with all of the > supplements. Do you think the prozac made the biggest > difference? I will call the doctors you gave me. > > Thanks,> > Lori> > Roquemores wrote:> Boy, can he speak more than one word!! And definitely > play games. Has even expressed himself with choosing a > girlfriend! :-)> We've met with , et al, a number of times, and Neal has > got to be one of the most polite young men with DS that I've met > in a long time. Holds conversations. Has a wonderful sense of > humor too.> But I'll let his mom brag on him now!> Tina> > > > > > ---------------------------------> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Mobile. Try it now. > > > > > ---------------------------------> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search.>

January 8, 2008

Thank you so much for all the information !Still many questions, but still nursing sick kids here....seem we are about to be introduced to a tummy bug now. Am taking in for a recheck to her Ped and plan to at least start the discussion to see if she is even open to reading the research and information. Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasayMom to seven including , 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - Down Syndrome Treatment/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic

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January 8, 2008

He is 10 years old. So that is very different than 3. I started GB when he was 7 1/2 and then the rest when he was 8 1/2. So he was a lot older and I had a very good idea of his abilities. cjalicj@... wrote: Hold old is Neal? My little guy is only 3 Re: ProzacDown Syndrome Treatment > Thanks Tina!! Lori,

he is capable of much more expression but > that came in the last 6 -8 months (after 1 year on everything). > He really did not use more than one word sentences before, > except the memorized sentence "May I have more juice, please." > But if he was constructing the sentence, he did not use more > than one or two words.> > He is still unsure of syntax or sentence structure and he will > throw out many words because he knows he needs to use them but > they are random. > > One thing is everyone (in public) understands him now, > articulation is better. He can order his own food, drink etc.> > The other big change if he is trying to tell you something he > will elaborate to explain himself. He will give you details to > get his point across.> > Word retrieval is still hard but getting better and better. > > From what describes

her daughter was talking better > much sooner but that is why I say you have to compare them to > themselves. For Neal, he is so much more verbally expressive.> > > Lori Dunn wrote:> I would like you to help me with all of the > supplements. Do you think the prozac made the biggest > difference? I will call the doctors you gave me. > > Thanks,> > Lori> > Roquemores wrote:> Boy, can he speak more than one word!! And definitely > play games. Has even expressed himself with choosing a > girlfriend! :-)> We've met with , et al, a number of times, and Neal has > got to be one of the most polite young men with DS that I've met > in a long time. Holds conversations. Has a wonderful sense of > humor too.> But I'll let his mom brag on him now!> Tina> > > >

> > ---------------------------------> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Mobile. Try it now. > > > > > ---------------------------------> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search.>

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January 8, 2008

isn't on it now, just the Namenda. BUT he was on Piracetam from age 2.5 till age 13.5

When he first started it he was barely uttering one word here and there (remember he was only 2.5)...within 2 weeks he came into my bedroom with a Winnie the Pooh Puppet on his hand and said, "Pooh PuhPuh up dun"

(Pooh puppet up down) FOUR WORDS!? From one word to FOUR?

Then he was pretty regularly talking in 3 or 4 word sentences after that...articulation still really bad though at the time.

Other than that The difference was more noticable when he was OFF of it. We didn't realize before he was on it how long his 'processing' time was...we'd give him a command, he would stop, think about it, then 'do' it. Big delay between the request and the action. When he was on the Piracetam he had no 'lag' time.

About 3 months into it we were at a company picnic...busy hectic morning I thought Rick had given him the Piracetam, he thought I had given it to him...he didn't get any that day.

At the picnic we gave a soda can to throw into the trash can (he loved to throw trash away at that age) and he took the can, physically stopped, thought, THEN headed over to throw the can in the can. Rick and I looked at each other and said, 'Did you give him his Piracetam?" We knew immediately he was off of it....and always knew when we forgot it.

He learns faster (still not 'normal' speed) and comprehends better on Piracetam, and now Namenda.

BUT Piracetam can increase autistic stemming-like behaviors, and other sensory issues, so be careful if your kid has any of those traits.

, Mom to 14, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre

Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

Re: Prozac

They are...it's called Alzheimer's. gets into this with information such as: virtually, every brain they have examined in DS has AD(Alzheimer Disease). The App gene is triplicated on the 21st chromosome.

If that were true, wouldn't all people with DS be on a slow steady decline intellectually? I know some do have that occur, but not all. Would be very telling to understand why some decline while others maintain the same level all their lives.

..

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

Hugs, Carol P.

AIM iammamapie

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January 9, 2008

Marsha, I wasn't blowing you off. I was trying to figure out what you are really asking. Let me give you the science behind DS and prozac. If you go to pubmed and put in words like Down syndrome dendrite, or brain development you will see the pattern that emerges is consistent that DS lose the normal development fairly early. I've included 3 abstracts here that begin to tell the story. The first is the fact that DS lose the normal branching of the neurons. Then that the DS brain has low BDNF. and the third is the importance of BDNF to the brain. Maybe these will help your understanding. On the Changing minds website I pulled out Wisneiwski's work on the DS brain but there are many other studies. For example, Dendritic atrophy in children with Down's syndrome Becker L E; Armstrong D L; Chan F ls of neurology, (1986 Oct) Vol. 20, No. 4, pp. 520-6. Journal code: 7707449. ISSN: 0364-5134.. English. Dendritic branching was evaluated in the visual cortex of 8 children with Down's syndrome and 10 controls, ranging in age from 4 months to 7 years and divided into infantile, late-infantile, and juvenile groups. Camera lucida drawings of Golgi-impregnated neurons were used for examining the following dendritic aspects: dendritic intersections as a function of distance from the cell body, point of maximum dendritic branching, number of branch orders, total number of branch segments, and total dendritic length.

The number of intersections and the total dendritic length were above normal in the infantile period (6 months old or less) and dropped steadily to significantly below normal in the juvenile group (older than 2 years). These reductions contrasted with expanding dendritic arborization in normal children. The results suggest that the dendritic tree atrophies in early childhood in Down's syndrome. In other words, the nerves should increase thir branching as the child develops and in the DS brain the branches steadily disappear. Frontal cortex BDNF levels correlate with working memory in an animal model of Down

syndrome Bimonte-, A.; Hunter, L.; , E.; Granholm, Ann-Charlotte E. Behavioural Brain Research (2003), 139(1-2), 47-57 CODEN: BBREDI; ISSN: 0166-4328. English. Individuals with Down syndrome (DS) develop most neuropathol. hallmarks of Alzheimer's disease early in life, including loss of cholinergic markers in the basal forebrain. Ts65Dn mice, an animal model of DS, perform poorly on tasks requiring spatial memory and also exhibit basal forebrain pathol. beginning around 6 mo of age. We evaluated memory as well as brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and nerve growth factor (NGF) protein levels in basal forebrain, frontal cortex, hippocampus, and striatum in Ts65Dn mice at the age when cholinergic degeneration is first observed, and compared values to normosomic controls.

Six-month-old Ts65Dn mice exhibited impairments in working and reference memory as assessed on a water radial-arm maze. The working memory deficit was related to the inability of Ts65Dn mice to successfully sustain performance as the working memory load increased. Coupled with cognitive performance deficiencies, Ts65Dn mice also exhibited lower frontal cortex BDNF protein levels than controls. Further, BDNF levels were neg. correlated with working memory errors during the latter portion of testing in Ts65Dn mice, thereby suggesting that lower BDNF protein levels in the frontal cortex may be associated with the observed working memory impairment. BDNF and 5-HT: a dynamic duo in age-related neuronal plasticity and neurodegenerative disorders Mark P. Mattson 1,2 , Stuart Maudsley 1 and Bronwen 1 1 Laboratory of Neurosciences, National Institute on Aging Intramural Research Program, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA 2 Department of Neuroscience, s Hopkins University School of

Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21205, USA Brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine, 5-HT) are known to regulate synaptic plasticity, neurogenesis and neuronal survival in the adult brain. These two signals co-regulate one another such that 5-HT stimulates the expression of BDNF, and BDNF enhances the growth and survival of 5-HT neurons. Impaired 5-HT and BDNF signaling is central to depression and anxiety disorders, but could also play important roles in the pathogenesis of several age-related disorders, including insulin resistance syn- drome, Alzheimer’s disease and Huntington’s disease. Enhancement of BDNF signaling may be a key mechan- ism whereby cognitive stimulation, exercise, dietary restriction and antidepressant drugs preserve brain function during aging. Behavioral and pharmacological manipulations that enhance 5-HT and BDNF

signaling could help promote healthy brain aging. Marsha Scheitlin <mscheitlin@...> wrote: s,Can you elaborate on the effects of prozac on the brain other than neurogenesis? I have read and heard that if you use prozac, you have to be comfortable with the fact that it will produce changes, perhaps permament, to the brain. What are these changes? Also, I have read in books and on the internet that prozac fools the brain into believing that there is plenty of seratonin and so it stops producing seratonin, leading to a seratonin deficiency. Do these changes happen at certain doses? We have talked about neurogenesis and side effects, but we haven't addressed the other changes that prozac may bring about. Marsha> Boy, can he speak more than one word!! And definitely play games. Has even expressed himself with choosing a girlfriend! :-)> We've met with , et al, a number of times, and Neal has got to be one of the most polite young men with DS that I've met in a long time. Holds conversations. Has a wonderful sense of humor too.> But I'll let his mom brag on him now!> Tina> > > >

> > ---------------------------------> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > > > > > ---------------------------------> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.>

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January 9, 2008

Thanks! I made copies and I did e-mail you privately.

Marsha

> > Boy, can he speak more than one word!! And definitely play

> games. Has even expressed himself with choosing a girlfriend! :-)

> > We've met with , et al, a number of times, and Neal has got

> to be one of the most polite young men with DS that I've met in a

> long time. Holds conversations. Has a wonderful sense of humor too.

> > But I'll let his mom brag on him now!

> > Tina

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with

> Mobile. Try it now.

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

> Search.

> >

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

>

January 15, 2008

I would really love to hear what your pediatrician

comes back with after reading the research. Thanks for

posting this!!

Mommy to Freddie 6yrs

Full inclusion Kindy (Again-But it's a good thing!!!)

--- Carol in IL <ps1272000@...> wrote:

>

> I asked our Ped about the Prozac and her initial

> reaction was a resounding NO! Followed by comments

> on all the side effects of the drug. However, she

> did agree to look at any research. :-) So am sending

> her the link for Changing Minds, so we'll see.

> Worries me that she was so against it due to side

> effects cause she is not afraid to use drugs when

> needed. I guess we'll be having more conversation

> about it.

>

> On a side note- my Ginkgo mysteriously disappeared

> right after Christmas and so has not has

> not had any for while. She is NOT herself at all

> lately and is very obstinate and struggling to get

> words out. She STILL is not feeling great after the

> strep and we had a minor GI bug go through the

> house.... so lots going on, but I can still see a

> difference in her behavior. My Kirkman order is on

> it's way, so I will be curious to see if things get

> better once she is back on it.

>

> Carol in IL

>

> AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasay

> Mom to seven including , 7 with TOF,

> AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and

> DS.

>

> My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me.

>

> Join our Down Syndrome information group -

>

Down Syndrome Treatment/

>

> Listen to oldest dd's music

> http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> Be a better friend, newshound, and

> know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

>

http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

>

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January 15, 2008

Yes, Keep us updated I will like to hear how things go. Carol PFreddies Mommy <freddie5smommy@...> wrote: I would really love to hear what your pediatriciancomes back with after reading the research. Thanks forposting this!!Mommy to Freddie 6yrsFull inclusion Kindy (Again-But it's a good thing!!!)--- Carol in IL <ps1272000 > wrote:> > I asked our Ped about the Prozac and her initial>

reaction was a resounding NO! Followed by comments> on all the side effects of the drug. However, she> did agree to look at any research. :-) So am sending> her the link for Changing Minds, so we'll see.> Worries me that she was so against it due to side> effects cause she is not afraid to use drugs when> needed. I guess we'll be having more conversation> about it.> > > On a side note- my Ginkgo mysteriously disappeared> right after Christmas and so has not has> not had any for while. She is NOT herself at all> lately and is very obstinate and struggling to get> words out. She STILL is not feeling great after the> strep and we had a minor GI bug go through the> house.... so lots going on, but I can still see a> difference in her behavior. My Kirkman order is on> it's way, so I will be curious to see if things get> better once she is

back on it.> > > Carol in IL > > AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasay> Mom to seven including , 7 with TOF,> AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and> DS.> > My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me.> > > Join our Down Syndrome information group - >Down Syndrome Treatment/> > Listen to oldest dd's music> http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic> > > > > > >__________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. >http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > __________________________________________________________Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Hugs, Carol P. AIM iammamapie Giga iammamapie

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

January 15, 2008

It's me again just giving my two cents worth....Prozac has been a huge success for us...I am 100% behind it....we started out slow...and when we do increase it is very slow...but we saw results the very next day.....it will either work or it won't but according to some very astoudt Dr.s in our city....anxiety is huge in our kids with DS and Autism.

Jane

Re: Prozac

Yes,

Keep us updated I will like to hear how things go.

Carol PFreddies Mommy <freddie5smommy> wrote:

I would really love to hear what your pediatriciancomes back with after reading the research. Thanks forposting this!!Mommy to Freddie 6yrsFull inclusion Kindy (Again-But it's a good thing!!!)--- Carol in IL <ps1272000 (DOT) com> wrote:> > I asked our Ped about the Prozac and her initial> reaction was a resounding NO! Followed by comments> on all the side effects of the drug. However, she> did agree to look at any research. :-) So am sending> her the link for Changing Minds, so we'll see.> Worries me that she was so against it due to side> effects cause she is not afraid to use drugs when> needed. I guess we'll be having more conversation> about it.> > > On a side note- my Ginkgo mysteriously

disappeared> right after Christmas and so has not has> not had any for while. She is NOT herself at all> lately and is very obstinate and struggling to get> words out. She STILL is not feeling great after the> strep and we had a minor GI bug go through the> house.... so lots going on, but I can still see a> difference in her behavior. My Kirkman order is on> it's way, so I will be curious to see if things get> better once she is back on it.> > > Carol in IL > > AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasay> Mom to seven including , 7 with TOF,> AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and> DS.> > My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me.> > > Join our Down Syndrome information group - >http://health. groups.. com/group/ DownSyndromeInfo Exchange/> > Listen to oldest dd's music> http://www.myspace. com/vennamusic> > > > > > >____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. >http://mobile. / ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. /

;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ

Hugs, Carol P.

AIM iammamapie

! Giga iammamapie

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

January 15, 2008

I believe you all when you say it works. does really well over all and does not have ASD, so it's going to be a tough sell. Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasayMom to seven including , 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - Down Syndrome Treatment/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic----- Original Message ----From: Jane Grimes <grimesje@...>Down Syndrome Treatment Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:48:47 PMSubject: Re: Prozac

It's me again just giving my two cents worth....Prozac has been a huge success for us...I am 100% behind it....we started out slow...and when we do increase it is very slow...but we saw results the very next day.....it will either work or it won't but according to some very astoudt Dr.s in our city....anxiety is huge in our kids with DS and Autism.

Jane

Re: [DownSyndromeInfoEx change] Prozac

Yes,

Keep us updated I will like to hear how things go.

Carol PFreddies Mommy <freddie5smommy> wrote:

I would really love to hear what your pediatriciancomes back with after reading the research. Thanks forposting this!!Mommy to Freddie 6yrsFull inclusion Kindy (Again-But it's a good thing!!!)--- Carol in IL <ps1272000 (DOT) com> wrote:> > I asked our Ped about the Prozac and her initial> reaction was a resounding NO! Followed by comments> on all the side effects of the drug. However, she> did agree to look at any research. :-) So am sending> her the link for Changing Minds, so we'll see.> Worries me that she was so against it due to side> effects cause she is not afraid to use drugs when> needed. I guess we'll be having more conversation> about it.> > > On a side note- my Ginkgo mysteriously

disappeared> right after Christmas and so has not has> not had any for while. She is NOT herself at all> lately and is very obstinate and struggling to get> words out. She STILL is not feeling great after the> strep and we had a minor GI bug go through the> house.... so lots going on, but I can still see a> difference in her behavior. My Kirkman order is on> it's way, so I will be curious to see if things get> better once she is back on it.> > > Carol in IL > > AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasay> Mom to seven including , 7 with TOF,> AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and> DS.> > My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me.> > > Join our Down Syndrome information group - >http://health. groups.. com/group/ DownSyndromeInfo Exchange/> > Listen to oldest dd's music> http://www.myspace. com/vennamusic> > > > > > >____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. >http://mobile. / ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. /

;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ

Hugs, Carol P.

AIM iammamapie

! Giga iammamapie

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January 16, 2008

Carol, Have you considered going to a neurologist? They are more familiar w/ neurological drugs than a pediatrician. Carol in IL <ps1272000@...> wrote: I believe you all when you say it works. does really well over all and does not have ASD, so it's going to be a tough sell. Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasayMom to seven including , 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - Down Syndrome Treatment/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic Re: [DownSyndromeInfoEx change] Prozac Yes, Keep us updated I will like to hear how things go. Carol PFreddies Mommy <freddie5smommy> wrote: I would really love to hear what your pediatriciancomes back with after reading the research. Thanks forposting this!!Mommy to Freddie 6yrsFull inclusion Kindy (Again-But it's a good thing!!!)--- Carol in IL <ps1272000 (DOT) com> wrote:> > I asked our Ped about the Prozac and her initial> reaction was a

resounding NO! Followed by comments> on all the side effects of the drug. However, she> did agree to look at any research. :-) So am sending> her the link for Changing Minds, so we'll see.> Worries me that she was so against it due to side> effects cause she is not afraid to use drugs when> needed. I guess we'll be having more conversation> about it.> > > On a side note- my Ginkgo mysteriously disappeared> right after Christmas and so has not has> not had any for while. She is NOT herself at all> lately and is very obstinate and struggling to get> words out. She STILL is not feeling great after the> strep and we had a minor GI bug go through the> house.... so lots going on, but I can still see a> difference in her behavior. My Kirkman order is on> it's way, so I will be curious to see if things get> better once she is back on

it.> > > Carol in IL > > AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasay> Mom to seven including , 7 with TOF,> AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and> DS.> > My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me.> > > Join our Down Syndrome information group - >http://health. groups.. com/group/ DownSyndromeInfo Exchange/> > Listen to oldest dd's music> http://www.myspace. com/vennamusic> > > > > > >____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. >http://mobile. / ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. / ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ Hugs, Carol P. AIM iammamapie ! Giga iammamapie Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

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January 16, 2008

I have. :-) I want to get her opinion first and let her read the research. I have a lot of respect for her- she is very smart, so I want to hear whatever she says. Even if it's all negative, I know I will be going into things fully armed that way. It will only serve to help me understand and deal with the neurologist in a more informed way.She will be the first to admit if she doesn't understand all she is reading- that will make me feel better to hear her say as well. At that point SHE may give a reference to a neurologist she feels would be able to understand, or knowing her, if she wants to know, she is going to be calling to talk to one herself. Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasayMom to seven including , 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - Down Syndrome Treatment/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic----- Original Message ----From: Cody <teresa.cody@...>To:

Down Syndrome Treatment Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:19:49 AMSubject: Re: Prozac

Carol, Have you considered going to a neurologist? They are more familiar w/ neurological drugs than a pediatrician. Carol in IL <ps1272000 (DOT) com> wrote: I believe you all when you say it works. does really well over all and does not have ASD, so it's going to be a tough sell. Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasayMom to seven including , 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - http://health. groups.. com/group/ DownSyndromeInfo Exchange/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace. com/vennamusic Re: [DownSyndromeInfoEx change] Prozac Yes, Keep us updated I will like to hear how things go. Carol PFreddies Mommy <freddie5smommy> wrote: I would really love to hear what your pediatriciancomes back with after reading the research. Thanks forposting this!!Mommy to Freddie 6yrsFull inclusion Kindy (Again-But it's a good thing!!!)--- Carol in IL <ps1272000 (DOT) com> wrote:> > I asked our

Ped about the Prozac and her initial> reaction was a

resounding NO! Followed by comments> on all the side effects of the drug. However, she> did agree to look at any research. :-) So am sending> her the link for Changing Minds, so we'll see.> Worries me that she was so against it due to side> effects cause she is not afraid to use drugs when> needed. I guess we'll be having more conversation> about it.> > > On a side note- my Ginkgo mysteriously disappeared> right after Christmas and so has not has> not had any for while. She is NOT herself at all> lately and is very obstinate and struggling to get> words out. She STILL is not feeling great after the> strep and we had a minor GI bug go through the> house.... so lots going on, but I can still see a> difference in her behavior. My Kirkman order is on> it's way, so I will be curious to see if things get> better once

she is back on

it.> > > Carol in IL > > AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasay> Mom to seven including , 7 with TOF,> AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and> DS.> > My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me.> > > Join our Down Syndrome information group - >http://health. groups.. com/group/ DownSyndromeInfo Exchange/> > Listen to oldest dd's music> http://www.myspace. com/vennamusic> > > > > > >____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. >http://mobile. / ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. / ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ Hugs, Carol P. AIM

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