Guest guest Posted August 31, 2000 Report Share Posted August 31, 2000 Hi Tamara > " Vit. E is usually supplied as the oil soluble tocopherol acetate. I'm not a chemist, but there seems to be confusion here between two different products. Vitamin E is alpha Tocopherol which IS an antioxidant. Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E Acetate) has no antioxidant properties that I am aware of. They are not even spelled the same. Tocopherol is the antioxidant and is not soluble in water. I have also heard that ROE is a good antioxidant, but I have no experience in using it. The tocopherol is now > water soluble and not available where it is needed. Vitamin E acetate may > be used as an effective preservative in non-saponified products. It is not > as stable as the compounds in Rosemary oleoresin. " Neither Vitamin E or ROE are preservatives, they are antioxidants and Vitamin E Acetate is neither. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. achil@... http://houseofscents.safeshopper.com/ www.yourhealthandbody.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 Ditto for HBOT susan Re: Antioxidants >Dear Colin, > >OK, let's start from the top. > >Simplest definitions : > >Oxidation = the loss of an electron >Reduction = the gaining of an electron > >Oxidant = substance that gains an electron >Reductant = substance that loses an electron > >Notice there is no anti-oxidant mentioned. It is really a reductant, a >substance that gives up electrons. > >Basic normal cell respiration is : > >Oxidation by Aerobic Respiration > >C6H12O6 + 6O2 = 6CO2 + 6 H2O + ATP > glucose + oxygen = carbon dioxide + water + 2870 kjoules > >Anything that interferes with the amount of oxygen required in this process >is detrimental. Notice that just one molecule of oxygen less produces : > >Impaired Oxidation > >C6H12O6 + 5 O2 = 4CO2 + 6 H2O + 2CO + ATP > glucose + oxygen = carbon dioxide + water + carbon monoxide + 2500 >kjoules > >Now the cell is being slightly poisoned by carbon monoxide it itself is >producing, because it can't get enough oxygen to complete the process. If >this state continues, and worsens we have : > >Fermentation by Anerobic Respiration > > C6H12O6 = 2C3H5O3 + 2H+ + ATP >glucose ferments = lactic acid + hydrogen ions (acid) + 150 >kjoules > >which is the equation for the CANCER CELL. > >Notice that the energy level is nearly 20 times less compared to normal >respiration >(150 kjoules vs 2870 kjoules). That is why most cancer patients have no >energy. >(Also notice that this is the reason that cancer is not contagious. It is >produced only when cellular conditions are deteriorated : hypoxia). > >So taking a reductant (so-called antioxidant) that enters the cell and >upsets this equation, by joining with oxygen and leaving less oxygen for the >sugar breakdown, is contributing to a condition that leads to cancer. hence >the warning. > >Now every good cell has a constant supply of reductant enzymes >(antioxidants) that prevent damage by ROS (reactive oxygen species, of which >there are many). These protective reductants are superoxide dismutase, >glutathione peroxidase, catalase (specific to hydrogen peroxide) and >reductase. They are perfectly able to take care of the cell and prevent >oxidative damage (so-called free radical damage). They lose effectiveness >only when they are physically prevented by accumulated toxins from >contacting the free radical , allowing it to escape neutralization and wreak >havoc. > >So what is the solution? Taking more reductants (anti-oxidants)? > >NO. (IMHO) > >Clean out the toxins so that the body's own reductant enzymes can do their >job. >(For a football analogy, clear away the blockers so the blitzing line can >sack the quarterback.) > >If the cells are not producing enough reductant enzymes, then stimulate them >to produce more. How? >Strangely enough, ozone therapy has this very effect. This is the paradox of >ozone. It is a strong oxidant, yet its use provokes the cell into >manufacturing large quantities of the reductant enzymes. This is called >beneficial oxidative stress. It has been proven in dozens of scientific >tests, both clinical and laboratory. It is one of the strongest effects of >ozone therapy. > >As if that were not enough, ozone therapy also clears away the toxins and >debris that caused grief in and around the cell in the first place. Bonus! > >As if that were not enough, ozone therapy stimulates a huge production of >gamma interferon, interleukin 2, Natural Killer cells, T-cells, etc. Double >bonus! > >As if that were not enough, ozone therapy destroys any bacteria or virus >that it contacts, regardless if it is strep (necrotizing fasciitis), staph >(MRSA), HIV, HTLV, herpes, West Nile virus, Ebola, etc., etc., etc. Triple >bonus ! > >As if that were not enough, ozone therapy increases pO2 (partial pressure of >oxygen in the blood) and results can be seen up to 20 days after therapy has >ceased. Quad bonus ! > >As if that were not enough, ozone therapy dissolves clots safely and removes >atherosclerotic plaque safely. Quint bonus! > >As if that were not enough, ozone therapy eliminates rouleaux (pile of >coins) formation where the red blood cells stick together and cannot get to >the ends of the smallest capillaries; thus increasing microcirculation and >preventing amputation of diabetic limbs. Sex bonus! (Wait a minute...that >can't be right...) > >As if that were not enough ....... > >You get my drift. > >Against that, what has the anti-oxidant (sic) got to offer? > >So, take your Vitamins (A, all the Bs, C, D, E, etc.) which are not really >anti-oxidants. They are vital for proper cell operation and DO NOT INTERFERE >with the normal cellular function. In fact they enhance it. It is a misnomer >to call them antioxidants, as if they were antagonistic to the normal >oxidation of the cell. > >But stay away from hyped anti-anything products whose benefits are slim and >whose detriments are >currently unknown, possibly deadly, and whose price is exorbitant. > > >Best of Health! >Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh > >URL: http://www.plasmafire.com >email: saul@... > > " The problems of today cannot be solved using the same thinking that created >them " . - Einstein > > > Re: Sherry > > >> >> Dr. Saul Oressman wrote: >> >> >> > Dear , >> (snipped) >> > I believe that the present fad for antioxidants will prove to be as >> > fraudulent and harmful as the cholesterol scare of the 1970s.. >> (snipped) >> >> >> Dear Saul: >> This is an extraordinary assertion given the mountain - no the mountain >> range - of materials and evidence from Denman Harmon (sp?) and Linus >ing >> on, advocating the A,C,E's (antioxidant vitamins) as good medicine for >> everything, including heart disease and cancer. Given your obvious depth >of >> knowledge in these matters, it chills me to hear you say that >anti-oxidants >> are harmful. Maybe balance/moderation is key. Harmon himself (not sure of >> spelling of his name), acknowledged as one of the founders of antioxidant >> therapy, was adamant that they are useful only if taken in moderation. >Could >> you please clarify your position? Do you advocate no anti-oxidant >> supplements whatsoever? Conversely, what dietary supplementation do you >> recommend? Better yet, maybe I, too, could get a copy of your book. I'd >be >> happy to purchase a copy if you'd be so kind as to e-mail me off list. >> Thanks >> Colin Yardley >> >> >> >> >> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and >other alternative self-help subjects. >> >> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! >> >> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here >are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing >information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your >own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to >take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to >hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found >here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher >or health care provider. >> >> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following >address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - >> DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of >the message! : >> >> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups >> >> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. >> > > > > >OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self-help subjects. > >THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > >This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. > >You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - >DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 Dear Colin, OK, let's start from the top. Simplest definitions : Oxidation = the loss of an electron Reduction = the gaining of an electron Oxidant = substance that gains an electron Reductant = substance that loses an electron Notice there is no anti-oxidant mentioned. It is really a reductant, a substance that gives up electrons. Basic normal cell respiration is : Oxidation by Aerobic Respiration C6H12O6 + 6O2 = 6CO2 + 6 H2O + ATP glucose + oxygen = carbon dioxide + water + 2870 kjoules Anything that interferes with the amount of oxygen required in this process is detrimental. Notice that just one molecule of oxygen less produces : Impaired Oxidation C6H12O6 + 5 O2 = 4CO2 + 6 H2O + 2CO + ATP glucose + oxygen = carbon dioxide + water + carbon monoxide + 2500 kjoules Now the cell is being slightly poisoned by carbon monoxide it itself is producing, because it can't get enough oxygen to complete the process. If this state continues, and worsens we have : Fermentation by Anerobic Respiration C6H12O6 = 2C3H5O3 + 2H+ + ATP glucose ferments = lactic acid + hydrogen ions (acid) + 150 kjoules which is the equation for the CANCER CELL. Notice that the energy level is nearly 20 times less compared to normal respiration (150 kjoules vs 2870 kjoules). That is why most cancer patients have no energy. (Also notice that this is the reason that cancer is not contagious. It is produced only when cellular conditions are deteriorated : hypoxia). So taking a reductant (so-called antioxidant) that enters the cell and upsets this equation, by joining with oxygen and leaving less oxygen for the sugar breakdown, is contributing to a condition that leads to cancer. hence the warning. Now every good cell has a constant supply of reductant enzymes (antioxidants) that prevent damage by ROS (reactive oxygen species, of which there are many). These protective reductants are superoxide dismutase, glutathione peroxidase, catalase (specific to hydrogen peroxide) and reductase. They are perfectly able to take care of the cell and prevent oxidative damage (so-called free radical damage). They lose effectiveness only when they are physically prevented by accumulated toxins from contacting the free radical , allowing it to escape neutralization and wreak havoc. So what is the solution? Taking more reductants (anti-oxidants)? NO. (IMHO) Clean out the toxins so that the body's own reductant enzymes can do their job. (For a football analogy, clear away the blockers so the blitzing line can sack the quarterback.) If the cells are not producing enough reductant enzymes, then stimulate them to produce more. How? Strangely enough, ozone therapy has this very effect. This is the paradox of ozone. It is a strong oxidant, yet its use provokes the cell into manufacturing large quantities of the reductant enzymes. This is called beneficial oxidative stress. It has been proven in dozens of scientific tests, both clinical and laboratory. It is one of the strongest effects of ozone therapy. As if that were not enough, ozone therapy also clears away the toxins and debris that caused grief in and around the cell in the first place. Bonus! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy stimulates a huge production of gamma interferon, interleukin 2, Natural Killer cells, T-cells, etc. Double bonus! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy destroys any bacteria or virus that it contacts, regardless if it is strep (necrotizing fasciitis), staph (MRSA), HIV, HTLV, herpes, West Nile virus, Ebola, etc., etc., etc. Triple bonus ! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy increases pO2 (partial pressure of oxygen in the blood) and results can be seen up to 20 days after therapy has ceased. Quad bonus ! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy dissolves clots safely and removes atherosclerotic plaque safely. Quint bonus! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy eliminates rouleaux (pile of coins) formation where the red blood cells stick together and cannot get to the ends of the smallest capillaries; thus increasing microcirculation and preventing amputation of diabetic limbs. Sex bonus! (Wait a minute...that can't be right...) As if that were not enough ....... You get my drift. Against that, what has the anti-oxidant (sic) got to offer? So, take your Vitamins (A, all the Bs, C, D, E, etc.) which are not really anti-oxidants. They are vital for proper cell operation and DO NOT INTERFERE with the normal cellular function. In fact they enhance it. It is a misnomer to call them antioxidants, as if they were antagonistic to the normal oxidation of the cell. But stay away from hyped anti-anything products whose benefits are slim and whose detriments are currently unknown, possibly deadly, and whose price is exorbitant. Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh URL: http://www.plasmafire.com email: saul@... " The problems of today cannot be solved using the same thinking that created them " . - Einstein Re: Sherry > > Dr. Saul Oressman wrote: > > > > Dear , > (snipped) > > I believe that the present fad for antioxidants will prove to be as > > fraudulent and harmful as the cholesterol scare of the 1970s.. > (snipped) > > > Dear Saul: > This is an extraordinary assertion given the mountain - no the mountain > range - of materials and evidence from Denman Harmon (sp?) and Linus ing > on, advocating the A,C,E's (antioxidant vitamins) as good medicine for > everything, including heart disease and cancer. Given your obvious depth of > knowledge in these matters, it chills me to hear you say that anti-oxidants > are harmful. Maybe balance/moderation is key. Harmon himself (not sure of > spelling of his name), acknowledged as one of the founders of antioxidant > therapy, was adamant that they are useful only if taken in moderation. Could > you please clarify your position? Do you advocate no anti-oxidant > supplements whatsoever? Conversely, what dietary supplementation do you > recommend? Better yet, maybe I, too, could get a copy of your book. I'd be > happy to purchase a copy if you'd be so kind as to e-mail me off list. > Thanks > Colin Yardley > > > > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self-help subjects. > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 Dear Saul: A brilliant explanation, and the only one I've read that really helps to clarify the confusion around the apparent double edged sword of oxygen - i.e., the right kind is good for you, the wrong kind is bad for you, ergo you have to take antioxidants to quench the bad (reactive, free radical, singlet) type. Over and above what it is that you know (and that is most impressive), I am even more impressed by the care you take to deal with the questions people throw at you on this list. You and Jim L. add to the light of the world. Thanks Colin Yardley > Dear Colin, > > OK, let's start from the top. > > Simplest definitions : > > Oxidation = the loss of an electron > Reduction = the gaining of an electron > > Oxidant = substance that gains an electron > Reductant = substance that loses an electron > > Notice there is no anti-oxidant mentioned. It is really a reductant, a > substance that gives up electrons. > > Basic normal cell respiration is : > > Oxidation by Aerobic Respiration > > C6H12O6 + 6O2 = 6CO2 + 6 H2O + ATP > glucose + oxygen = carbon dioxide + water + 2870 kjoules > > Anything that interferes with the amount of oxygen required in this process > is detrimental. Notice that just one molecule of oxygen less produces : > > Impaired Oxidation > > C6H12O6 + 5 O2 = 4CO2 + 6 H2O + 2CO + ATP > glucose + oxygen = carbon dioxide + water + carbon monoxide + 2500 > kjoules > > Now the cell is being slightly poisoned by carbon monoxide it itself is > producing, because it can't get enough oxygen to complete the process. If > this state continues, and worsens we have : > > Fermentation by Anerobic Respiration > > C6H12O6 = 2C3H5O3 + 2H+ + ATP > glucose ferments = lactic acid + hydrogen ions (acid) + 150 > kjoules > > which is the equation for the CANCER CELL. > > Notice that the energy level is nearly 20 times less compared to normal > respiration > (150 kjoules vs 2870 kjoules). That is why most cancer patients have no > energy. > (Also notice that this is the reason that cancer is not contagious. It is > produced only when cellular conditions are deteriorated : hypoxia). > > So taking a reductant (so-called antioxidant) that enters the cell and > upsets this equation, by joining with oxygen and leaving less oxygen for the > sugar breakdown, is contributing to a condition that leads to cancer. hence > the warning. > > Now every good cell has a constant supply of reductant enzymes > (antioxidants) that prevent damage by ROS (reactive oxygen species, of which > there are many). These protective reductants are superoxide dismutase, > glutathione peroxidase, catalase (specific to hydrogen peroxide) and > reductase. They are perfectly able to take care of the cell and prevent > oxidative damage (so-called free radical damage). They lose effectiveness > only when they are physically prevented by accumulated toxins from > contacting the free radical , allowing it to escape neutralization and wreak > havoc. > > So what is the solution? Taking more reductants (anti-oxidants)? > > NO. (IMHO) > > Clean out the toxins so that the body's own reductant enzymes can do their > job. > (For a football analogy, clear away the blockers so the blitzing line can > sack the quarterback.) > > If the cells are not producing enough reductant enzymes, then stimulate them > to produce more. How? > Strangely enough, ozone therapy has this very effect. This is the paradox of > ozone. It is a strong oxidant, yet its use provokes the cell into > manufacturing large quantities of the reductant enzymes. This is called > beneficial oxidative stress. It has been proven in dozens of scientific > tests, both clinical and laboratory. It is one of the strongest effects of > ozone therapy. > > As if that were not enough, ozone therapy also clears away the toxins and > debris that caused grief in and around the cell in the first place. Bonus! > > As if that were not enough, ozone therapy stimulates a huge production of > gamma interferon, interleukin 2, Natural Killer cells, T-cells, etc. Double > bonus! > > As if that were not enough, ozone therapy destroys any bacteria or virus > that it contacts, regardless if it is strep (necrotizing fasciitis), staph > (MRSA), HIV, HTLV, herpes, West Nile virus, Ebola, etc., etc., etc. Triple > bonus ! > > As if that were not enough, ozone therapy increases pO2 (partial pressure of > oxygen in the blood) and results can be seen up to 20 days after therapy has > ceased. Quad bonus ! > > As if that were not enough, ozone therapy dissolves clots safely and removes > atherosclerotic plaque safely. Quint bonus! > > As if that were not enough, ozone therapy eliminates rouleaux (pile of > coins) formation where the red blood cells stick together and cannot get to > the ends of the smallest capillaries; thus increasing microcirculation and > preventing amputation of diabetic limbs. Sex bonus! (Wait a minute...that > can't be right...) > > As if that were not enough ....... > > You get my drift. > > Against that, what has the anti-oxidant (sic) got to offer? > > So, take your Vitamins (A, all the Bs, C, D, E, etc.) which are not really > anti-oxidants. They are vital for proper cell operation and DO NOT INTERFERE > with the normal cellular function. In fact they enhance it. It is a misnomer > to call them antioxidants, as if they were antagonistic to the normal > oxidation of the cell. > > But stay away from hyped anti-anything products whose benefits are slim and > whose detriments are > currently unknown, possibly deadly, and whose price is exorbitant. > > > Best of Health! > Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh > > URL: http://www.plasmafire.com > email: saul@... > > " The problems of today cannot be solved using the same thinking that created > them " . - Einstein > > > Re: Sherry > > > > > > Dr. Saul Oressman wrote: > > > > > > > Dear , > > (snipped) > > > I believe that the present fad for antioxidants will prove to be as > > > fraudulent and harmful as the cholesterol scare of the 1970s.. > > (snipped) > > > > > > Dear Saul: > > This is an extraordinary assertion given the mountain - no the mountain > > range - of materials and evidence from Denman Harmon (sp?) and Linus > ing > > on, advocating the A,C,E's (antioxidant vitamins) as good medicine for > > everything, including heart disease and cancer. Given your obvious depth > of > > knowledge in these matters, it chills me to hear you say that > anti-oxidants > > are harmful. Maybe balance/moderation is key. Harmon himself (not sure of > > spelling of his name), acknowledged as one of the founders of antioxidant > > therapy, was adamant that they are useful only if taken in moderation. > Could > > you please clarify your position? Do you advocate no anti-oxidant > > supplements whatsoever? Conversely, what dietary supplementation do you > > recommend? Better yet, maybe I, too, could get a copy of your book. I'd > be > > happy to purchase a copy if you'd be so kind as to e-mail me off list. > > Thanks > > Colin Yardley > > > > > > > > > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and > other alternative self-help subjects. > > > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here > are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing > information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your > own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to > take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to > hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found > here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher > or health care provider. > > > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following > address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of > the message! : > > > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > > > > > > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self-help subjects. > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 Dear , Actually, not. Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh URL: http://www.plasmafire.com email: saul@... " The problems of today cannot be solved using the same thinking that created them " . - Einstein Re: Sherry > > > > > >> > >> Dr. Saul Oressman wrote: > >> > >> > >> > Dear , > >> (snipped) > >> > I believe that the present fad for antioxidants will prove to be as > >> > fraudulent and harmful as the cholesterol scare of the 1970s.. > >> (snipped) > >> > >> > >> Dear Saul: > >> This is an extraordinary assertion given the mountain - no the mountain > >> range - of materials and evidence from Denman Harmon (sp?) and Linus > >ing > >> on, advocating the A,C,E's (antioxidant vitamins) as good medicine for > >> everything, including heart disease and cancer. Given your obvious depth > >of > >> knowledge in these matters, it chills me to hear you say that > >anti-oxidants > >> are harmful. Maybe balance/moderation is key. Harmon himself (not sure of > >> spelling of his name), acknowledged as one of the founders of antioxidant > >> therapy, was adamant that they are useful only if taken in moderation. > >Could > >> you please clarify your position? Do you advocate no anti-oxidant > >> supplements whatsoever? Conversely, what dietary supplementation do you > >> recommend? Better yet, maybe I, too, could get a copy of your book. I'd > >be > >> happy to purchase a copy if you'd be so kind as to e-mail me off list. > >> Thanks > >> Colin Yardley > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and > >other alternative self-help subjects. > >> > >> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > >> > >> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here > >are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing > >information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at > your > >own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability > to > >take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to > >hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found > >here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher > >or health care provider. > >> > >> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following > >address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > >> DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of > >the message! : > >> > >> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > >> > >> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal > mode. > >> > > > > > > > > > >OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and > other alternative self-help subjects. > > > >THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > > >This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are > for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing > information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your > own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to > take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to > hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found > here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher > or health care provider. > > > >You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following > address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > >DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of > the message! : > > > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > > > > > > > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self-help subjects. > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 Dear Jackie, Thanks for the kind words. That was an excerpt from my training course for Ozone Hyperthermic Technicians. Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh URL: http://www.plasmafire.com email: saul@... " The problems of today cannot be solved using the same thinking that created them " . - Einstein Late with the mail > I am answering mail late as you all will probably figure out in my last > couple of posts. My in-laws are here and I am in the kitchen instead of > tending to mail. > > But had to say, Saul, that was the best, by far, explanation of > anti-oxidant action/oxy therapy I have ever heard/read. We are blessed to > have you on the list. ~jackie~ > > > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self-help subjects. > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 Saul, Does this course require going to Canada, or can it also be done by correspondence? jim Saul Pressman wrote: > > Dear Jackie, > > Thanks for the kind words. > > That was an excerpt from my training course for > Ozone Hyperthermic Technicians. > > Best of Health! > Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh > > URL: http://www.plasmafire.com > email: saul@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 Dear Jim, It is correspondence. Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh URL: http://www.plasmafire.com email: saul@... " The problems of today cannot be solved using the same thinking that created them " . - Einstein Re: Antioxidants > Saul, > > Does this course require going to Canada, or can it also be done by > correspondence? > > jim > > Saul Pressman wrote: > > > > Dear Jackie, > > > > Thanks for the kind words. > > > > That was an excerpt from my training course for > > Ozone Hyperthermic Technicians. > > > > Best of Health! > > Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh > > > > URL: http://www.plasmafire.com > > email: saul@... > > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self-help subjects. > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2001 Report Share Posted February 13, 2001 Rosemary: I would use multiple doses throughout the day. Clinically, we would start off with taking plasma values (an oxidative stress panel). After seeing where the patient is at with these values then we would make recommendations what to take and when to take it. A general strategy would be to start with higher doses until the levels of normal are reached. (This is confirmed with follow-up evaluations). Then the dose would be lowered to existing levels. Check out Jan Karlsson's book: Antioxidants and Exercise. It seems to focus on CoQ10, E, and fish oil, though. Tom Incledon Human Performance Specialists, Inc. Plantation, FL 954-577-0689 hpsinc@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2001 Report Share Posted April 11, 2001 Donna wrote: Why not? Thanks, Donna Dear Donna, Saul's answer to the same question a ways back was so comprehensive that I set it aside for reference. Here it is: Green ~^~^~^~^ OK, let's start from the top. Simplest definitions : Oxidation = the loss of an electron Reduction = the gaining of an electron Oxidant = substance that gains an electron Reductant = substance that loses an electron Notice there is no anti-oxidant mentioned. It is really a reductant, a substance that gives up electrons. Basic normal cell respiration is : > Oxidation by Aerobic Respiration C6H12O6 + 6O2 = 6CO2 + 6 H2O + ATP glucose + oxygen = carbon dioxide + water + 2870 kjoules Anything that interferes with the amount of oxygen required in this process is detrimental. Notice that just one molecule of oxygen less produces : > Impaired Oxidation C6H12O6 + 5 O2 = 4CO2 + 6 H2O + 2CO + ATP glucose + oxygen = carbon dioxide + water + carbon monoxide + 2500 kjoules Now the cell is being slightly poisoned by carbon monoxide it itself is producing, because it can't get enough oxygen to complete the process. If this state continues, and worsens we have : > Fermentation by Anerobic Respiration C6H12O6 = 2C3H5O3 + 2H+ + ATP glucose ferments = lactic acid + hydrogen ions (acid) + 150 kjoules which is the equation for the CANCER CELL. Notice that the energy level is nearly 20 times less compared to normal respiration (150 kjoules vs 2870 kjoules). That is why most cancer patients have no energy. (Also notice that this is the reason that cancer is not contagious. It is produced only when cellular conditions are deteriorated : hypoxia). So taking a reductant (so-called antioxidant) that enters the cell and upsets this equation, by joining with oxygen and leaving less oxygen for the sugar breakdown, is contributing to a condition that leads to cancer. hence the warning. Now every good cell has a constant supply of reductant enzymes (antioxidants) that prevent damage by ROS (reactive oxygen species, of which there are many). These protective reductants are superoxide dismutase, glutathione peroxidase, catalase (specific to hydrogen peroxide) and reductase. They are perfectly able to take care of the cell and prevent oxidative damage (so-called free radical damage). They lose effectiveness only when they are physically prevented by accumulated toxins from contacting the free radical , allowing it to escape neutralization and wreak havoc. So what is the solution? Taking more reductants (anti-oxidants)? NO. (IMHO) Clean out the toxins so that the body's own reductant enzymes can do their job. (For a football analogy, clear away the blockers so the blitzing line can sack the quarterback.) If the cells are not producing enough reductant enzymes, then stimulate them to produce more. How? Strangely enough, ozone therapy has this very effect. This is the paradox of ozone. It is a strong oxidant, yet its use provokes the cell into manufacturing large quantities of the reductant enzymes. This is called beneficial oxidative stress. It has been proven in dozens of scientific tests, both clinical and laboratory. It is one of the strongest effects of ozone therapy. As if that were not enough, ozone therapy also clears away the toxins and debris that caused grief in and around the cell in the first place. Bonus! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy stimulates a huge production of gamma interferon, interleukin 2, Natural Killer cells, T-cells, etc. Double bonus! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy destroys any bacteria or virus that it contacts, regardless if it is strep (necrotizing fasciitis), staph (MRSA), HIV, HTLV, herpes, West Nile virus, Ebola, etc., etc., etc. Triple bonus ! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy increases pO2 (partial pressure of oxygen in the blood) and results can be seen up to 20 days after therapy has ceased. Quad bonus ! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy dissolves clots safely and removes atherosclerotic plaque safely. Quint bonus! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy eliminates rouleaux (pile of coins) formation where the red blood cells stick together and cannot get to the ends of the smallest capillaries; thus increasing microcirculation and preventing amputation of diabetic limbs. Sex bonus! (Wait a minute...that can't be right...) As if that were not enough ....... You get my drift. Against that, what has the anti-oxidant (sic) got to offer? So, take your Vitamins (A, all the Bs, C, D, E, etc.) which are not really anti-oxidants. They are vital for proper cell operation and DO NOT INTERFERE with the normal cellular function of oxidation. In fact they enhance it. It is a misnomer to call them antioxidants, as if they were antagonistic to the normal, crucial oxidation in the cell. But stay away from hyped anti-anything products whose benefits are slim and whose detriments are currently unknown, possibly deadly, and whose price is exorbitant. Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh URL: http://www.plasmafire.com email: saul@... " The problems of today cannot be solved using the same thinking that created them " . - Einstein Re: ozonating water Dear , In my opinion, you shouldn't take antioxidants at all. However, if you think you want to, take them after you do the ozonated water, with at least a 30 minute wait. Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh, LOH [ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2001 Report Share Posted April 11, 2001 I love this information. Thank you thank you thank you, both. Donna Re: antioxidants Donna wrote: Why not? Thanks, Donna Dear Donna, Saul's answer to the same question a ways back was so comprehensive that I set it aside for reference. Here it is: Green ~^~^~^~^ OK, let's start from the top. Simplest definitions : Oxidation = the loss of an electron Reduction = the gaining of an electron Oxidant = substance that gains an electron Reductant = substance that loses an electron Notice there is no anti-oxidant mentioned. It is really a reductant, a substance that gives up electrons. Basic normal cell respiration is : > Oxidation by Aerobic Respiration C6H12O6 + 6O2 = 6CO2 + 6 H2O + ATP glucose + oxygen = carbon dioxide + water + 2870 kjoules Anything that interferes with the amount of oxygen required in this process is detrimental. Notice that just one molecule of oxygen less produces : > Impaired Oxidation C6H12O6 + 5 O2 = 4CO2 + 6 H2O + 2CO + ATP glucose + oxygen = carbon dioxide + water + carbon monoxide + 2500 kjoules Now the cell is being slightly poisoned by carbon monoxide it itself is producing, because it can't get enough oxygen to complete the process. If this state continues, and worsens we have : > Fermentation by Anerobic Respiration C6H12O6 = 2C3H5O3 + 2H+ + ATP glucose ferments = lactic acid + hydrogen ions (acid) + 150 kjoules which is the equation for the CANCER CELL. Notice that the energy level is nearly 20 times less compared to normal respiration (150 kjoules vs 2870 kjoules). That is why most cancer patients have no energy. (Also notice that this is the reason that cancer is not contagious. It is produced only when cellular conditions are deteriorated : hypoxia). So taking a reductant (so-called antioxidant) that enters the cell and upsets this equation, by joining with oxygen and leaving less oxygen for the sugar breakdown, is contributing to a condition that leads to cancer. hence the warning. Now every good cell has a constant supply of reductant enzymes (antioxidants) that prevent damage by ROS (reactive oxygen species, of which there are many). These protective reductants are superoxide dismutase, glutathione peroxidase, catalase (specific to hydrogen peroxide) and reductase. They are perfectly able to take care of the cell and prevent oxidative damage (so-called free radical damage). They lose effectiveness only when they are physically prevented by accumulated toxins from contacting the free radical , allowing it to escape neutralization and wreak havoc. So what is the solution? Taking more reductants (anti-oxidants)? NO. (IMHO) Clean out the toxins so that the body's own reductant enzymes can do their job. (For a football analogy, clear away the blockers so the blitzing line can sack the quarterback.) If the cells are not producing enough reductant enzymes, then stimulate them to produce more. How? Strangely enough, ozone therapy has this very effect. This is the paradox of ozone. It is a strong oxidant, yet its use provokes the cell into manufacturing large quantities of the reductant enzymes. This is called beneficial oxidative stress. It has been proven in dozens of scientific tests, both clinical and laboratory. It is one of the strongest effects of ozone therapy. As if that were not enough, ozone therapy also clears away the toxins and debris that caused grief in and around the cell in the first place. Bonus! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy stimulates a huge production of gamma interferon, interleukin 2, Natural Killer cells, T-cells, etc. Double bonus! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy destroys any bacteria or virus that it contacts, regardless if it is strep (necrotizing fasciitis), staph (MRSA), HIV, HTLV, herpes, West Nile virus, Ebola, etc., etc., etc. Triple bonus ! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy increases pO2 (partial pressure of oxygen in the blood) and results can be seen up to 20 days after therapy has ceased. Quad bonus ! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy dissolves clots safely and removes atherosclerotic plaque safely. Quint bonus! As if that were not enough, ozone therapy eliminates rouleaux (pile of coins) formation where the red blood cells stick together and cannot get to the ends of the smallest capillaries; thus increasing microcirculation and preventing amputation of diabetic limbs. Sex bonus! (Wait a minute...that can't be right...) As if that were not enough ....... You get my drift. Against that, what has the anti-oxidant (sic) got to offer? So, take your Vitamins (A, all the Bs, C, D, E, etc.) which are not really anti-oxidants. They are vital for proper cell operation and DO NOT INTERFERE with the normal cellular function of oxidation. In fact they enhance it. It is a misnomer to call them antioxidants, as if they were antagonistic to the normal, crucial oxidation in the cell. But stay away from hyped anti-anything products whose benefits are slim and whose detriments are currently unknown, possibly deadly, and whose price is exorbitant. Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh URL: http://www.plasmafire.com email: saul@... " The problems of today cannot be solved using the same thinking that created them " . - Einstein Re: ozonating water Dear , In my opinion, you shouldn't take antioxidants at all. However, if you think you want to, take them after you do the ozonated water, with at least a 30 minute wait. Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh, LOH [ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2001 Report Share Posted April 11, 2001 For one thing, since most people are hypoxic, taking a lot of antioxidants depletes oxygen even further. jim Donna wrote: > > Why not? > > Thanks, > Donna ----- carpe diem, carpe pecuniam, carpe feminas. -- Jim Lambert jlambert@... http://www.entrance.to/madscience http://www.entrance.to/poetry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 This is a very good, common sense point, Jim. jp For one thing, since most people are hypoxic, taking a lot of antioxidants depletes oxygen even further. jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Could you please post a link to where you found this information? > > Thought that this discussion at flaxseedoil2 was very good and useful . > . . > > Antioxidants > > Posted by: " Dr. Loretta Lanphier " > LorettaLanphier@... lanphierfamily Date: Fri Jan 19, 2007 > 6:49 am ((PST)) > > We have had a lot of discussion about antioxidants and their role in the > Budwig protocol. This has concerned me so maybe the following will shed > some understanding. > > First of all, if you are doing the Budwig protocol you ARE getting > antioxidants. But you are getting naturally occuring antioxidants. > > Unfortunately the natural health industry has succombed to some thinking > that is probably not in our best interest. This is the thought that > because most people eat the SAD (Standard American Diet) which is mostly > void of fresh vegetables and fruits, then they will need " extra " > antioxidants. So every manufacturer jumps on this and comes out with > vitamins in pill and capsule form that act as antoxidants in the body. > This is not the " natural " way to get antioxidants, but a convenient way. > Convenience is what most people, even some on this list, want more than > anything. However, convenience almost never promotes health and > well-being. > > Just about all fruits and vegetables contain levels of antioxidants. So > do green teas. So do wines. So do herbs. The body cannot function > without antioxidants. Antioxidants balance out free-radical oxygen. If > you believe the theory that too much oxygen is harmful then you will > most likely be concerned with not getting enough antioxidants. > > However, I believe (my personal belief) that most on this planet are > oxygen deficient, thus one of the many reasons we are seeing so much > disease and that the free-radical oxygen theory may not hold much water. > Most people need more oxygen than what they are getting. > > We have only four sources of oxygen today. Our first source is marine > plankton (algae) that supplies 70% of the Earth's oxygen and is being > destroyed by oil spills and the dumping of toxic chemicals in our > oceans. Our second source is trees and vegetation that are being > destroyed and cut down to make room for our growing population. > > Our third natural oxygen source is fruits and vegetables that are now > being genetically engineered and are full of pesticides and > insecticides. Our fourth source of oxygen is through lightening which > produces ozone, but our sky is filled with fossil fuels, hydrocarbons, > fluorocarbons, and millions of other toxic chemicals. Our first two > sources are rapidly being depleted and our second two sources are so > toxic that the benefits basically cancel each other out. This leaves all > of us oxygen deficient. > > So saying that you cannot have antioxidants on the Budwig Protocol is > not really true. You can have antioxidants but ONLY from real food. Food > that is as close to nature as you can get. > > Dr. Budwig knew all of this so therefore adding " extra " antioxidants in > the form of pills and capsules are not needed and would cancel out all > the oxygen that the body gets from fruits and vegetables. > It is a fact that disease cannot live in an oxygenated terraine. In > alternative cancer treatement you will find that there are some > protocols that make use of high levels of antioxidents such as high- dose > IV Vitamin C therapy. There are some that are more concentrated with > getting more oxygen into the body, like the Budwig protocol. Personally, > I have seen a higher success rate with making sure that the body has > sufficient oxygen. > > More and more of the vitamin supplements today (a lot of changes in the > supplement industry since 2000) are actually considered foods. Yes, most > are processed to an extent but a few companies are using processing > methods that are low heat and using processing ingredients that are all > natural. Thus would be considered minimally processed. One of the > reasons they are making this change is because the public is becoming > more aware and educated and because practitioners, like myself, continue > to scream and yell about it. ;o) If you get right down to it even > organic organic cottage cheese is processed. Even flax seed oil is > processed. Even green tea is processed. Even Essiac Tea is processed > (however some more than others). Even spices are processed. If you are > uncertain about something that you are thinking about taking then call > the manufacturer/seller and ask questions. Ask how it is processed, if > it is irradiated (you may be surprised), is it grown with pesticides and > herbicides, when is it picked (young plant or adult), what kind of > fertilizer is used, is it fluoridated, etc. Is it packaged in plastic or > glass----this is my personal pet peive. > > I truly believe that Dr. Budwig's bottom line was that she knew the > chemical reactions that were needed in order for the FO/CC to work and > it worked best when the body was getting ALL its nutrition from the way > nature intended. Does it mean that the procol will not work if you take > some of these other neutraceuticals (not talking about antioxidants)? > Maybe, but maybe not. Obviously there are others using the Budwig > protocol that are using additional neutraceuticals and are getting good > results, too. However, I believe that most of this is occurring under > the care of practitioners who understand the body and have a lot of > experience in dealing with natural cancer therapies. > > I deeply understand the " need " to want to do everything possible to heal > from cancer. Before I was on my protocol, I was at the Health Food Store > at least 1-2x/week and usually came out with no less than $200 worth of > products! Why? Because with all my research (a.k.a. confusion) I would > buy whatever I had heard/read was good for cancer. What I needed was a > protocol. One in which what I took would work together synergistically > in the body. But at that point I did not have the knowledge or > understanding about how to accomplish this by myself. So, I had to > " trust " and " have faith " in a protocol that provided what my body > needed. I also had to have a huge dose of patience! Long story, > short---it worked! > > Hopefully I have said some things that will help everyone to understand > that antioxidants are not the bad guy, if you understand the > biochemistry of the body. Dr. Budwig did not believe that unnatural (by > that I mean processed) vitamins were needed and she certainly cautioned > against the use of anything synthetic, including drugs. > > We put gas in our cars in order for them to run effectively. What > happens when you get some " bad " gas (gas that has been watered down or > contaminated)? The car will not perform at peak levels and will > eventually break-down. What will make it run again? Getting to the root > of the concern and then making sure that only good gas is put in. It's > the same with our body. God put everything natural on this earth that > our body needs in order to heal. When we put in " unnatural " food then > the body will not have the " energy " it needs to heal. > > So before you put something in your > mouth, ask yourself " is this as close to nature as it comes? " If the > answer is no, then you may want to rethink. > > Hopefully we will all do our part and fight to keep our food pure, clean > and natural. > > Be Well, > Loretta > ____________ > Note: > Messages on FlaxSeedOil2 are educational, not medical advice. For > medical advice consult a qualified healthcare professional. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 It's in the messages at the flaxseedoil2 group, for Jan. 19: FlaxSeedOil2/ Here's the direct link: FlaxSeedOil2/message/40953 Posted by: " breathedeepnow " aug20@... breathedeepnow Date: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:43 am ((PST)) Could you please post a link to where you found this information? Thought that this discussion at flaxseedoil2 was very good and useful . .. . Antioxidants Posted by: " Dr. Loretta Lanphier " LorettaLanphier@... lanphierfamily Date: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:49 am ((PST)) We have had a lot of discussion about antioxidants and their role in the Budwig protocol. This has concerned me so maybe the following will shed some understanding. First of all, if you are doing the Budwig protocol you ARE getting antioxidants. But you are getting naturally occuring antioxidants. Unfortunately the natural health industry has succombed to some thinking that is probably not in our best interest. This is the thought that because most people eat the SAD (Standard American Diet) which is mostly void of fresh vegetables and fruits, then they will need " extra " antioxidants. So every manufacturer jumps on this and comes out with vitamins in pill and capsule form that act as antoxidants in the body. This is not the " natural " way to get antioxidants, but a convenient way. Convenience is what most people, even some on this list, want more than anything. However, convenience almost never promotes health and well-being. Just about all fruits and vegetables contain levels of antioxidants. So do green teas. So do wines. So do herbs. The body cannot function without antioxidants. Antioxidants balance out free-radical oxygen. If you believe the theory that too much oxygen is harmful then you will most likely be concerned with not getting enough antioxidants. However, I believe (my personal belief) that most on this planet are oxygen deficient, thus one of the many reasons we are seeing so much disease and that the free-radical oxygen theory may not hold much water. Most people need more oxygen than what they are getting. We have only four sources of oxygen today. Our first source is marine plankton (algae) that supplies 70% of the Earth's oxygen and is being destroyed by oil spills and the dumping of toxic chemicals in our oceans. Our second source is trees and vegetation that are being destroyed and cut down to make room for our growing population. Our third natural oxygen source is fruits and vegetables that are now being genetically engineered and are full of pesticides and insecticides. Our fourth source of oxygen is through lightening which produces ozone, but our sky is filled with fossil fuels, hydrocarbons, fluorocarbons, and millions of other toxic chemicals. Our first two sources are rapidly being depleted and our second two sources are so toxic that the benefits basically cancel each other out. This leaves all of us oxygen deficient. So saying that you cannot have antioxidants on the Budwig Protocol is not really true. You can have antioxidants but ONLY from real food. Food that is as close to nature as you can get. Dr. Budwig knew all of this so therefore adding " extra " antioxidants in the form of pills and capsules are not needed and would cancel out all the oxygen that the body gets from fruits and vegetables. It is a fact that disease cannot live in an oxygenated terraine. In alternative cancer treatement you will find that there are some protocols that make use of high levels of antioxidents such as high- dose IV Vitamin C therapy. There are some that are more concentrated with getting more oxygen into the body, like the Budwig protocol. Personally, I have seen a higher success rate with making sure that the body has sufficient oxygen. More and more of the vitamin supplements today (a lot of changes in the supplement industry since 2000) are actually considered foods. Yes, most are processed to an extent but a few companies are using processing methods that are low heat and using processing ingredients that are all natural. Thus would be considered minimally processed. One of the reasons they are making this change is because the public is becoming more aware and educated and because practitioners, like myself, continue to scream and yell about it. ;o) If you get right down to it even organic organic cottage cheese is processed. Even flax seed oil is processed. Even green tea is processed. Even Essiac Tea is processed (however some more than others). Even spices are processed. If you are uncertain about something that you are thinking about taking then call the manufacturer/seller and ask questions. Ask how it is processed, if it is irradiated (you may be surprised), is it grown with pesticides and herbicides, when is it picked (young plant or adult), what kind of fertilizer is used, is it fluoridated, etc. Is it packaged in plastic or glass----this is my personal pet peive. I truly believe that Dr. Budwig's bottom line was that she knew the chemical reactions that were needed in order for the FO/CC to work and it worked best when the body was getting ALL its nutrition from the way nature intended. Does it mean that the procol will not work if you take some of these other neutraceuticals (not talking about antioxidants)? Maybe, but maybe not. Obviously there are others using the Budwig protocol that are using additional neutraceuticals and are getting good results, too. However, I believe that most of this is occurring under the care of practitioners who understand the body and have a lot of experience in dealing with natural cancer therapies. I deeply understand the " need " to want to do everything possible to heal from cancer. Before I was on my protocol, I was at the Health Food Store at least 1-2x/week and usually came out with no less than $200 worth of products! Why? Because with all my research (a.k.a. confusion) I would buy whatever I had heard/read was good for cancer. What I needed was a protocol. One in which what I took would work together synergistically in the body. But at that point I did not have the knowledge or understanding about how to accomplish this by myself. So, I had to " trust " and " have faith " in a protocol that provided what my body needed. I also had to have a huge dose of patience! Long story, short---it worked! Hopefully I have said some things that will help everyone to understand that antioxidants are not the bad guy, if you understand the biochemistry of the body. Dr. Budwig did not believe that unnatural (by that I mean processed) vitamins were needed and she certainly cautioned against the use of anything synthetic, including drugs. We put gas in our cars in order for them to run effectively. What happens when you get some " bad " gas (gas that has been watered down or contaminated)? The car will not perform at peak levels and will eventually break-down. What will make it run again? Getting to the root of the concern and then making sure that only good gas is put in. It's the same with our body. God put everything natural on this earth that our body needs in order to heal. When we put in " unnatural " food then the body will not have the " energy " it needs to heal. So before you put something in your mouth, ask yourself " is this as close to nature as it comes? " If the answer is no, then you may want to rethink. Hopefully we will all do our part and fight to keep our food pure, clean and natural. Be Well, Loretta ____________ Note: Messages on FlaxSeedOil2 are educational, not medical advice. For medical advice consult a qualified healthcare professional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Thanks, . One thing about that flaxoil2 group---they can tend to get a bit too, too picky about things. I understand that there are people who got well from cancer by just mixing the flax oil and cottage cheese the best they could---even with just a spoon or a fork---and some of those people on the flax oil 2 board, even the moderator, say that you must mix the two so well that when you examine the surface closely, even perhaps with a magnifying glass, you can't see any little beads of oil on the surface. Sometimes they get ridiculous to the point where it can make some people feel like abandoning the Budwig method. AAnd since it is not just the cottage cheese and flax oil that is responsible for healing with the Budwig method, it's important for people to know that it is not so terribly, terribly important that the flax oil and cottage cheese be mixed so spectacularly carefully. They should just do the best they can and not have to worry so much about whether they are doing everything exactly right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Some follow-up to those very interesting comments at FlaxSeedOil2: Posted by: " rnmendez3000 " rnmendez3000@... rnmendez3000 Date: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:29 am ((PST)) Dr. Loretta Lanphier wrote: We have had a lot of discussion about antioxidants and their role in the Budwig protocol....Dr. Budwig did not believe that unnatural (by that I mean processed) vitamins were needed and she certainly cautioned against the use of anything synthetic, including drugs.... -------------- Hi there Loretta, and thanks for your thoughtful posting. As I understand the problem so far, Dr Budwig did NOT advise against vitamins or supplements or antioxidants " in the abstract " or in absolute terms but in relative terms. You can understand what I mean by reading a few quotes from her book " Cancer... " , reproduced by , one of this list's moderators, last October 23. Take this one, for instance: " In a review of her book, CANCER-THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION, Dr. Budwig either wrote or approved these statements: [i used caps on the key words] 'How then do we get sick? Because we take in too many of these " electron thieves " or in other words, because we eat foods and poisons which block cell respiration. Known electron thieves are for example margarine, animal fat, butter, nitrate, radiation and zytostatics (chemo therapy). They all prevent the uptake of electrons. Interestingly, belonging to this are also ANTIOXIDANTS, like for example VITAMINS (from a certain level on). Be therefore careful about using high doses of vitamins.' " As far as I can see, she is NOT saying that vitamins interfere with the Budwig Protocol or that we should not take vitamins ever. She is simply saying not to take " high doses " ...and I fully agree to it. Don't you? Greetings to all, RNM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Dear Gail, If you search back through the archives, I went into this at length a couple of years back. The gist of the post was that the 'ordinary' vitamins are not actually antioxidant, they are reductants. The difference is that they promote cellular health and proper operation, in a wonderful balancing act that shows how well our bodies are designed to optimize oxidation as the main engine of energy (creator of ATP), and to prevent oxidative damage from R.O.S. (reactive oxygen species). Vitamin C is a time-dependent vitamin, and is cleared from the body fairly quickly. This is what the allopaths sneer about - 'expensive urine'. Calcium needs to be balanced out through the day, so 500 mg at each meal would be a good amount, rather than 1500 mg at a lump. Of course, you need magnesium at the same time, as well as Vitamin D. So the Flora/Sanus drink is an easy way to cover all the bases. Actually, calcium should wake you up as opposed to making you sleepy. Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman Re: Oxygen cellular starvation Saul, How much is considered 'excessive' when it comes to antioxidants & what kind? I thought one could never get too much vitamin C. Also, how much calcium is usually recommended for a post menopause woman? I actually take little calcium as it sometimes seems to make me feel tired and sleepy, then again I seem to feel that way often so maybe it's not the calcuim, but it does feel that way to me. Thanks, Gail > > Further, there are nutritional deficiencies that result in hypoxia as well, > among them being insufficient calcium, lack of B vitamins, lack of iodine, > excessive antioxidants, transfats, etc. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 Dr. Steve , who died last year, reported that he reduced patients' viral load to undetectable using anti oxidants and other things. He had blog after blog after blog on his website, www.grouppekurosawa.com. Unfortunately, after his death, the blogs were removed. I used to be on his protocol and can share it if anyone is interested.  Luc Montagnier has an antioxidant product out with a Japanese company called Osato. It's fermented papaya.  Here's the website: www.osatousa.com. I just ordered it and started last night. It's a powder that you put on your tongue right before bed on an empty stomach. Yes, this is the same man who says repairing the immune system and incorporating good nutrition is as good as meds... Has it been proven by science that antioxidants is effective in stopping and reducing viral load? Sent from my iPhone On 3 Aug 2010, at 04:27, Nonyo Biznazz <nonyobiznazz@...> wrote: > According to Luc Montagnier, co-discoverer of HIV, if you build up > the immune system using antioxidants and other ways besides soley > thinking of drugs and vaccines as the solution, you can get rid of > the virus. Lord did he not add to the confusion! Sometimes I feel > that no one knows what they are talking about- not even the > discoverer of the freakin' virus! I really wished he would've > explained that theory even further. How would one know that they > have gotten rid of the virus? Would there viral load just remain > undetectable without using the drugs? I'm so confused. > > Randall > > > > From: asm online <asmonline@...> > > Subject: RE: My Public Apology > > cures for AIDS > > Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 1:43 PM > > That a very nice touch you added to the forum, I strongly belief > that we much transcend the artificial division that has been created > by the Government of men to keep us away knowing the true behind > the Special Virus Program and there goal of depopulation by using > Vaccines. You and I are victims of such crimes. > > We have many many common facts that govern our lives whether we are > on Meds or developing our personal protocol. HIV hide in the guts, > SO WE MUST WORK TOGETHER TO REMOVE THIS MAN MADE VIRUS FROM OUR GUTS > TOGETHER WE CAN DO IT. There is a need to focus on a whole Self- > therapy, medicine for the Mind, body and Spirit, NOT JUST SYNTHETIC > MAN MADE PILLS as the all in all science of medicane. > > cures for AIDS > > From: nonyobiznazz@... > > Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 13:33:49 -0700 > > Subject: My Public Apology > > > > Hi everyone, I just wanted to let everyone know that I feel I need > to apologize to a member of this group. Yes, his thinking is alot > different from the majority of people in this group as far as HIV > meds is concerned, but he truly does mean well. This member's name > is DOUG MAN, and he truly is a nice guy that has been very > supportive to me in private emails. I have been so stressed out and > depressed with things that have happened in my last within the last > few months. The other day I sent a long email to the group that may > have sounded like I was attacking Doug but I emailed him and > apologized if I came off too harsh towards him and Doug responded > very kindly and made me feel comforted by telling me that he > forgives me and that he considers me a friend. He also sympathizes > with alot of struggles that I am going through in my personal life > and he and I have been talking about this for some time through > private email. I don't any responses to > > this email but I just wanted to make sure that I gave Doug an > apology and the respect he deserves. We truly can learn something > from everyone. > > Randall > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 I believe that antioxidant can decrease the viral load because they clean your blood from free radical and since the virus is in the blood, anything that can purify the blood like beets, papaya, pomegranate and other things can help. Love, Live, and Laugh ________________________________ From: <luvtheozone@...> cures for AIDS Sent: Tue, August 3, 2010 8:54:15 AM Subject: Antioxidants Dr. Steve , who died last year, reported that he reduced patients' viral load to undetectable using anti oxidants and other things. He had blog after blog after blog on his website, www.grouppekurosawa.com. Unfortunately, after his death, the blogs were removed. I used to be on his protocol and can share it if anyone is interested. Luc Montagnier has an antioxidant product out with a Japanese company called Osato. It's fermented papaya. Here's the website: www.osatousa.com. I just ordered it and started last night. It's a powder that you put on your tongue right before bed on an empty stomach. Yes, this is the same man who says repairing the immune system and incorporating good nutrition is as good as meds... Has it been proven by science that antioxidants is effective in stopping and reducing viral load? Sent from my iPhone On 3 Aug 2010, at 04:27, Nonyo Biznazz <nonyobiznazz@...> wrote: > According to Luc Montagnier, co-discoverer of HIV, if you build up > the immune system using antioxidants and other ways besides soley > thinking of drugs and vaccines as the solution, you can get rid of > the virus. Lord did he not add to the confusion! Sometimes I feel > that no one knows what they are talking about- not even the > discoverer of the freakin' virus! I really wished he would've > explained that theory even further. How would one know that they > have gotten rid of the virus? Would there viral load just remain > undetectable without using the drugs? I'm so confused. > > Randall > > > > From: asm online <asmonline@...> > > Subject: RE: My Public Apology > > cures for AIDS > > Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 1:43 PM > > That a very nice touch you added to the forum, I strongly belief > that we much transcend the artificial division that has been created > by the Government of men to keep us away knowing the true behind > the Special Virus Program and there goal of depopulation by using > Vaccines. You and I are victims of such crimes. > > We have many many common facts that govern our lives whether we are > on Meds or developing our personal protocol. HIV hide in the guts, > SO WE MUST WORK TOGETHER TO REMOVE THIS MAN MADE VIRUS FROM OUR GUTS > TOGETHER WE CAN DO IT. There is a need to focus on a whole Self- > therapy, medicine for the Mind, body and Spirit, NOT JUST SYNTHETIC > MAN MADE PILLS as the all in all science of medicane. > > cures for AIDS > > From: nonyobiznazz@... > > Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 13:33:49 -0700 > > Subject: My Public Apology > > > > Hi everyone, I just wanted to let everyone know that I feel I need > to apologize to a member of this group. Yes, his thinking is alot > different from the majority of people in this group as far as HIV > meds is concerned, but he truly does mean well. This member's name > is DOUG MAN, and he truly is a nice guy that has been very > supportive to me in private emails. I have been so stressed out and > depressed with things that have happened in my last within the last > few months. The other day I sent a long email to the group that may > have sounded like I was attacking Doug but I emailed him and > apologized if I came off too harsh towards him and Doug responded > very kindly and made me feel comforted by telling me that he > forgives me and that he considers me a friend. He also sympathizes > with alot of struggles that I am going through in my personal life > and he and I have been talking about this for some time through > private email. I don't any responses to > > this email but I just wanted to make sure that I gave Doug an > apology and the respect he deserves. We truly can learn something > from everyone. > > Randall > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.