Re: Social/vocational/age issues

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Just the fact that children with Down syndrome (and other " handicaps " ) are

being hired to model in catalogs and appear in television commercials is a

step in the right direction. Even when they are hired at so-called " menial

jobs " such as carrying out groceries and cleaning up, this is a step up from

the sheltered workshops which once were the only hope for any kind of

employment for these children (and adults). Who knows how many Burkes

( " Life Goes On " 1989-93) are out there. And how many Jon Wills? Jon Will

is the son of the syndicated columnist Will. Last I heard he was

working as a messenger in the New York State Assembly.

We live in a town which once had one of the largest " mental institutions " in

the country, housing both children and adults with many backgrounds, many of

whom did not belong there. In 1991, this institution was downsized and

largely closed except for a few sections. People from the institution

became a part of the community. Although 800 people lost jobs do to the

downsizing, it was actually a blessing in disguise when Governor Ashcroft

(now Atty Gen.) made the decision to downsize the old state hospital--a lot

of people are now assimilated into society.

and Family

Re: Social/vocational/age issues

> In a message dated 9/28/2001 6:35:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> wildwards@... writes:

>

>

> I left off one sentence from my last post. Sorry for the repeat.

>

> Exactly!! Really, who is to say what is unrealistic for any child? Did

> any

> > of you receive the latest issue of NDSC? It was filled with stories

from or

> > about young adults. Evidently Sujeet, the young musician with DS that

has

> > played at national conferences, graduated from NY high schools with a

4.3

> > average, was a member of the National Honor Society, and has been

accepted

> > into a two year music program at a post secondary school. I wonder what

> > dreams his parents had for his future and what ones they discarded?

>

> Cheryl in VA

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Just the fact that children with Down syndrome (and other " handicaps " ) are

being hired to model in catalogs and appear in television commercials is a

step in the right direction. Even when they are hired at so-called " menial

jobs " such as carrying out groceries and cleaning up, this is a step up from

the sheltered workshops which once were the only hope for any kind of

employment for these children (and adults). Who knows how many Burkes

( " Life Goes On " 1989-93) are out there. And how many Jon Wills? Jon Will

is the son of the syndicated columnist Will. Last I heard he was

working as a messenger in the New York State Assembly.

We live in a town which once had one of the largest " mental institutions " in

the country, housing both children and adults with many backgrounds, many of

whom did not belong there. In 1991, this institution was downsized and

largely closed except for a few sections. People from the institution

became a part of the community. Although 800 people lost jobs do to the

downsizing, it was actually a blessing in disguise when Governor Ashcroft

(now Atty Gen.) made the decision to downsize the old state hospital--a lot

of people are now assimilated into society.

and Family

Re: Social/vocational/age issues

> In a message dated 9/28/2001 6:35:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> wildwards@... writes:

>

>

> I left off one sentence from my last post. Sorry for the repeat.

>

> Exactly!! Really, who is to say what is unrealistic for any child? Did

> any

> > of you receive the latest issue of NDSC? It was filled with stories

from or

> > about young adults. Evidently Sujeet, the young musician with DS that

has

> > played at national conferences, graduated from NY high schools with a

4.3

> > average, was a member of the National Honor Society, and has been

accepted

> > into a two year music program at a post secondary school. I wonder what

> > dreams his parents had for his future and what ones they discarded?

>

> Cheryl in VA

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/01 8:55:05 PM Central Daylight Time,

rdill@... writes:

> . Well, eight years later, after

> more than enough failures, I can attest that she is a difficult employee

> who starts with enthusiasm, but has exhibited behaviours later that cost

> her the job.

>

This sounds like my grandson and he has NO excuse. He never lasts

long at any job. Jessie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/01 8:55:05 PM Central Daylight Time,

rdill@... writes:

> . Well, eight years later, after

> more than enough failures, I can attest that she is a difficult employee

> who starts with enthusiasm, but has exhibited behaviours later that cost

> her the job.

>

This sounds like my grandson and he has NO excuse. He never lasts

long at any job. Jessie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/01 11:49:11 PM Central Daylight Time, JB66111@...

writes:

> > . Well, eight years later, after

> > more than enough failures, I can attest that she is a difficult employee

> > who starts with enthusiasm, but has exhibited behaviours later that cost

> > her the job.

> >

> This sounds like my grandson and he has NO excuse. He never lasts

> long at any job. Jessie

LOL OK you described my son too, who is off in FL now finding himself lolol

I tell you what though, after attending sooooo many workshops (disability)

Ive learned we definitely need to guide our kids in jobs that use our kids

strengths (and that's with any kid really lol) Im trying to identify Sara's

learning style now and building her life on that. Now she wants to work at

the Gap, she's really a people person but as an adult Im sure the choice in

retail will change lolol

I've been fortunate to see adults here with DS work our in our community. Ive

gone out of the way to meet the parents and I found them with the same views

I have it really helps me hear real people advice instead of just text

(you know, all of the workshop stuff lol)

Where I am at, I cannot count of the Sped room or professionals to meet all

of Sara's needs. They have failed her in the past, and this year has not

started off on the right foot either. Thank God we have choices or Sara

would NEVER reach her potential

Kathy mom to Sara 9

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/01 11:49:11 PM Central Daylight Time, JB66111@...

writes:

> > . Well, eight years later, after

> > more than enough failures, I can attest that she is a difficult employee

> > who starts with enthusiasm, but has exhibited behaviours later that cost

> > her the job.

> >

> This sounds like my grandson and he has NO excuse. He never lasts

> long at any job. Jessie

LOL OK you described my son too, who is off in FL now finding himself lolol

I tell you what though, after attending sooooo many workshops (disability)

Ive learned we definitely need to guide our kids in jobs that use our kids

strengths (and that's with any kid really lol) Im trying to identify Sara's

learning style now and building her life on that. Now she wants to work at

the Gap, she's really a people person but as an adult Im sure the choice in

retail will change lolol

I've been fortunate to see adults here with DS work our in our community. Ive

gone out of the way to meet the parents and I found them with the same views

I have it really helps me hear real people advice instead of just text

(you know, all of the workshop stuff lol)

Where I am at, I cannot count of the Sped room or professionals to meet all

of Sara's needs. They have failed her in the past, and this year has not

started off on the right foot either. Thank God we have choices or Sara

would NEVER reach her potential

Kathy mom to Sara 9

[Guest guest]

Rick, thanks for having the courage to remind us to keep reality in

our range of hopes and expectations.

Even though Danny is only ten, I, too, have found it frequently

necessary to " reset my targets " . But then, my NDA kids have also managed

to find their real strengths sometimes in spite of, rather than because

of, my expectations. My petite, quiet, first born told the school

system in no uncertain terms during her high school years to quit

expecting her to be a literary type. She is now in engineering school. I

had spent several years predicting (to myself) that she would be a piano

major.

With all our kids, we have to occasionally have to step back, refrain

from such intense " parenting " , and observe them as they define for

themselves who they really are.

Bev

[Guest guest]

Rick, thanks for having the courage to remind us to keep reality in

our range of hopes and expectations.

Even though Danny is only ten, I, too, have found it frequently

necessary to " reset my targets " . But then, my NDA kids have also managed

to find their real strengths sometimes in spite of, rather than because

of, my expectations. My petite, quiet, first born told the school

system in no uncertain terms during her high school years to quit

expecting her to be a literary type. She is now in engineering school. I

had spent several years predicting (to myself) that she would be a piano

major.

With all our kids, we have to occasionally have to step back, refrain

from such intense " parenting " , and observe them as they define for

themselves who they really are.

Bev

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/2001 9:55:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

rdill@... writes:

> <<While it is nice to lecture to a group of doctors that your

> child with down syndrome is so close to normal that you expect him to go

> to college and maybe even be a brain surgeon, it doesn't seem to end up

> that way.>>

Wow, who's been doing that? Interestingly enough, we are called upon here

to go to inservices for residents and local pediatricians at one of the

premier East coast teaching medical colleges . The speakers are parents of

kids with DS of varying ages and the kids themselves. I love watching the

faces of the residents when the kids answer their questions! A young lady of

6 with DS told one of the doctors that questioned her, " you have really bad

breath from coffee. " ;-) The last time I went, they asked me about some of my

fears for my daughter and if they changed as she matured. I told them how

one of my biggest fears was that she would be sexually taken advantage of,

persuaded because of her disability more than rape was my fear. And how that

fear eased as she became a teenager. That I realized in our society lots of

young ladies without DS are " taken advantage of sexually " (persuaded) and

that our teenage pregnancy rate shameful proves that. I discussed our talks

about birth control and later had an older pediatrician come up to me and ask

" how could you possibly expect your daughter to swallow pills, don't you know

those kids can't do that? It took me some time to convince him that yes,

people with DS can swallow pills. I really wondered what other wierd ideas

about people with DS he has floating around in his head!!

>

> Yes, some of today's children are educated in ways that are better than

> 20 years ago, but most of those 20 years ago got rather good education

> from a group of (largely sped) teachers who were seeing their first kids

> with DS and were excited about the wonderful progress that they made.

>

I think the best thing about looking at the education 20 years ago is to

see how quickly those kids proved previous stereotypes about their limited

potential to be wrong. And that tradition seems to be continuing as children

are given more and more educational opportunities that expand their knowledge

and expand their experiences with the rest of the world. It's great to see

the change and improvements that are taking place and the growth many kids

are experiencing. Hopefully that will provide them a better base for

stepping from the world of education to the world of employment and they will

not experience some of the difficulties students of the past did. Having a

feeling of purpose and usefulness is so important to self worth, self esteem,

and quality of life.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/2001 9:55:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

rdill@... writes:

> <<While it is nice to lecture to a group of doctors that your

> child with down syndrome is so close to normal that you expect him to go

> to college and maybe even be a brain surgeon, it doesn't seem to end up

> that way.>>

Wow, who's been doing that? Interestingly enough, we are called upon here

to go to inservices for residents and local pediatricians at one of the

premier East coast teaching medical colleges . The speakers are parents of

kids with DS of varying ages and the kids themselves. I love watching the

faces of the residents when the kids answer their questions! A young lady of

6 with DS told one of the doctors that questioned her, " you have really bad

breath from coffee. " ;-) The last time I went, they asked me about some of my

fears for my daughter and if they changed as she matured. I told them how

one of my biggest fears was that she would be sexually taken advantage of,

persuaded because of her disability more than rape was my fear. And how that

fear eased as she became a teenager. That I realized in our society lots of

young ladies without DS are " taken advantage of sexually " (persuaded) and

that our teenage pregnancy rate shameful proves that. I discussed our talks

about birth control and later had an older pediatrician come up to me and ask

" how could you possibly expect your daughter to swallow pills, don't you know

those kids can't do that? It took me some time to convince him that yes,

people with DS can swallow pills. I really wondered what other wierd ideas

about people with DS he has floating around in his head!!

>

> Yes, some of today's children are educated in ways that are better than

> 20 years ago, but most of those 20 years ago got rather good education

> from a group of (largely sped) teachers who were seeing their first kids

> with DS and were excited about the wonderful progress that they made.

>

I think the best thing about looking at the education 20 years ago is to

see how quickly those kids proved previous stereotypes about their limited

potential to be wrong. And that tradition seems to be continuing as children

are given more and more educational opportunities that expand their knowledge

and expand their experiences with the rest of the world. It's great to see

the change and improvements that are taking place and the growth many kids

are experiencing. Hopefully that will provide them a better base for

stepping from the world of education to the world of employment and they will

not experience some of the difficulties students of the past did. Having a

feeling of purpose and usefulness is so important to self worth, self esteem,

and quality of life.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

,

I understand what you were saying, as well as what Rick was saying. I really

don't need an explanation. Our experience so far, for my daughter with DS,

who is now 19, and for some of her friends with DS, has been quite different

from what Rick or Granny have experienced for their children, according to

the posts they make. Perhaps that is why my opinions often differ from

theirs.

My daughter doesn't seek out intellectual peers. She is comfortable with

many types of people. She has friends of all ages, all colors, all IQs, and

all genders. She goes to the mall with non DS friends, to football games,

concerts and parties. She does the same with her DS friends. She is well

loved in our community and respected by her school peers. She has champions

when she needs them. I believe a big part of that is because segregation has

never been part of her life. And as long as we are able, it won't be. This

may change as she gets older and school is no longer the main focus of her

life. That happens to many people. We will deal with that when it happens.

Hopefully she will find new friends to replace the ones she loses.

I work at a center for independent living. I see many adults with

disabilities, not just those with DS. Their lives in segregated facilities,

nursing homes and group homes are not what I want for my child. The

limitations placed on their lives because of where they live is not what I

want for my child. The quality of life there is not what I want for my

child. I will continue to work towards something different and hope that we

find the right fit for my child when she is ready to be on her own. You are

right that it is unrealistic to expect our children to function independently

or be accepted by everyone in society. The great thing is that they don't

have to be! In our world today, more than ever before, we see people with

disabilities of all types integrated into society instead of relegated to

institutions as in the past.

All parents adjust their expectations and dreams for their children. That is

a natural process. I sincerely doubt if any parents of a baby with DS

envision that child living a " normal " life or the options Rick mentioned in

the beginning of his post. But I would also love to think that most of those

parents with the babies want their child to have every opportunity available

and not underestimate their child's abilities. I would never encourage a

parent to lower their expectations based on what my child has experienced. I

would rather encourage parents to have high expectations and work towards

them than look back years later and wish they had done things differently. My

daughter is still achieving remarkable goals (IMO) and I think this

philosophy contributes to aid in her success.

Education from 20 years ago is irrelevant to me, except in a historical

context. It's what's happening now that counts and what the future brings.

I sincerely hope the young children of today with DS have more and better

educational opportunities than my child did. I hope that improvements

continue and society continues to improve the way they view and treat people

with DS. I hope kids with DS continue to make progress and astound the

world, breaking the " stereotype " barrier until it no longer exists. And I

hope parents continue to work towards these goals on behalf of their children

with the hope that their future will be only better.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

,

I understand what you were saying, as well as what Rick was saying. I really

don't need an explanation. Our experience so far, for my daughter with DS,

who is now 19, and for some of her friends with DS, has been quite different

from what Rick or Granny have experienced for their children, according to

the posts they make. Perhaps that is why my opinions often differ from

theirs.

My daughter doesn't seek out intellectual peers. She is comfortable with

many types of people. She has friends of all ages, all colors, all IQs, and

all genders. She goes to the mall with non DS friends, to football games,

concerts and parties. She does the same with her DS friends. She is well

loved in our community and respected by her school peers. She has champions

when she needs them. I believe a big part of that is because segregation has

never been part of her life. And as long as we are able, it won't be. This

may change as she gets older and school is no longer the main focus of her

life. That happens to many people. We will deal with that when it happens.

Hopefully she will find new friends to replace the ones she loses.

I work at a center for independent living. I see many adults with

disabilities, not just those with DS. Their lives in segregated facilities,

nursing homes and group homes are not what I want for my child. The

limitations placed on their lives because of where they live is not what I

want for my child. The quality of life there is not what I want for my

child. I will continue to work towards something different and hope that we

find the right fit for my child when she is ready to be on her own. You are

right that it is unrealistic to expect our children to function independently

or be accepted by everyone in society. The great thing is that they don't

have to be! In our world today, more than ever before, we see people with

disabilities of all types integrated into society instead of relegated to

institutions as in the past.

All parents adjust their expectations and dreams for their children. That is

a natural process. I sincerely doubt if any parents of a baby with DS

envision that child living a " normal " life or the options Rick mentioned in

the beginning of his post. But I would also love to think that most of those

parents with the babies want their child to have every opportunity available

and not underestimate their child's abilities. I would never encourage a

parent to lower their expectations based on what my child has experienced. I

would rather encourage parents to have high expectations and work towards

them than look back years later and wish they had done things differently. My

daughter is still achieving remarkable goals (IMO) and I think this

philosophy contributes to aid in her success.

Education from 20 years ago is irrelevant to me, except in a historical

context. It's what's happening now that counts and what the future brings.

I sincerely hope the young children of today with DS have more and better

educational opportunities than my child did. I hope that improvements

continue and society continues to improve the way they view and treat people

with DS. I hope kids with DS continue to make progress and astound the

world, breaking the " stereotype " barrier until it no longer exists. And I

hope parents continue to work towards these goals on behalf of their children

with the hope that their future will be only better.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/01 9:55:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

rdill@... writes:

> She's the first with DS to

> graduate from Chapel Haven and go on to independent life there.

Rick - I've never heard of Chapel Haven. Can you elaborate on what kind of a

program/place it is??

Also, as a parent of a 10 year old, I have to say that I appreciate and enjoy

the windows on adulthood that you and Granny provide to the rest of us. Even

though you talk about things such as " accepting limitations " , you both give

me so much hope for Jimmy's future. Thank you so much for your full

participation in this list!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/01 9:55:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

rdill@... writes:

> She's the first with DS to

> graduate from Chapel Haven and go on to independent life there.

Rick - I've never heard of Chapel Haven. Can you elaborate on what kind of a

program/place it is??

Also, as a parent of a 10 year old, I have to say that I appreciate and enjoy

the windows on adulthood that you and Granny provide to the rest of us. Even

though you talk about things such as " accepting limitations " , you both give

me so much hope for Jimmy's future. Thank you so much for your full

participation in this list!

[Guest guest]

Well said, Rick. You hit the nail on the head when you said " It is OK for

her to have friends of her (Jan's) own choosing. " We have a wide range of

people in our social circle ... people of all ages, economic backgrounds,

education and ability. and are happiest with friends who are

most like themselves. To force them to associate with people with whom they

are less happy is ludicrous.

granny

---

" The first casualty of war is truth. "

-- Rudyard Kipling

http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html

Social/vocational/age issues

> OK, I've hung back while Granny too the heat (thanks from my heart).

[snip]

[Guest guest]

Well said, Rick. You hit the nail on the head when you said " It is OK for

her to have friends of her (Jan's) own choosing. " We have a wide range of

people in our social circle ... people of all ages, economic backgrounds,

education and ability. and are happiest with friends who are

most like themselves. To force them to associate with people with whom they

are less happy is ludicrous.

granny

---

" The first casualty of war is truth. "

-- Rudyard Kipling

http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html

Social/vocational/age issues

> OK, I've hung back while Granny too the heat (thanks from my heart).

[snip]

[Guest guest]

My youngest broke my heart when he said he wanted to be a musician and was

not interested in college. My was really upset because my two eldest are

teachers! Well, I finally got a grip. Didn't I tell all my kids time and

again to chose whatever would make them happy? Yes I did! So, I left the kid

alone and he is one fine musician and happy as a clam.

granny

---

" The first casualty of war is truth. "

-- Rudyard Kipling

http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html

Re: Social/vocational/age issues

> Rick, thanks for having the courage to remind us to keep reality in

> our range of hopes and expectations.

> Even though Danny is only ten, I, too, have found it frequently

> necessary to " reset my targets " . But then, my NDA kids have also managed

> to find their real strengths sometimes in spite of, rather than because

> of, my expectations. My petite, quiet, first born told the school

> system in no uncertain terms during her high school years to quit

> expecting her to be a literary type. She is now in engineering school. I

> had spent several years predicting (to myself) that she would be a piano

> major.

> With all our kids, we have to occasionally have to step back, refrain

> from such intense " parenting " , and observe them as they define for

> themselves who they really are.

> Bev

>

>

[Guest guest]

My youngest broke my heart when he said he wanted to be a musician and was

not interested in college. My was really upset because my two eldest are

teachers! Well, I finally got a grip. Didn't I tell all my kids time and

again to chose whatever would make them happy? Yes I did! So, I left the kid

alone and he is one fine musician and happy as a clam.

granny

---

" The first casualty of war is truth. "

-- Rudyard Kipling

http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html

Re: Social/vocational/age issues

> Rick, thanks for having the courage to remind us to keep reality in

> our range of hopes and expectations.

> Even though Danny is only ten, I, too, have found it frequently

> necessary to " reset my targets " . But then, my NDA kids have also managed

> to find their real strengths sometimes in spite of, rather than because

> of, my expectations. My petite, quiet, first born told the school

> system in no uncertain terms during her high school years to quit

> expecting her to be a literary type. She is now in engineering school. I

> had spent several years predicting (to myself) that she would be a piano

> major.

> With all our kids, we have to occasionally have to step back, refrain

> from such intense " parenting " , and observe them as they define for

> themselves who they really are.

> Bev

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/26/01 12:39:02 PM Central Daylight Time,

koster@... writes:

> We need to live and be happy and the

> world will be changed (maybe without anyone even noticing) because

> they see that a little girl named Nina is important to me and to her

> dad, sister and brother and to herself in spite of the fact or maybe

> because of the fact she has Down Syndrome.

>

>

> AMEN!! And I think the way we relate to our " children " publicly

> affects other people's attitudes too. If we talk to them normally, and

> treat them as real people others will pick up on that too.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/26/01 12:39:02 PM Central Daylight Time,

koster@... writes:

> We need to live and be happy and the

> world will be changed (maybe without anyone even noticing) because

> they see that a little girl named Nina is important to me and to her

> dad, sister and brother and to herself in spite of the fact or maybe

> because of the fact she has Down Syndrome.

>

>

> AMEN!! And I think the way we relate to our " children " publicly

> affects other people's attitudes too. If we talk to them normally, and

> treat them as real people others will pick up on that too.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/26/01 3:55:26 PM Central Daylight Time,

wildwards@... writes:

> . I hope kids with DS continue to make progress and astound the

> world, breaking the " stereotype " barrier until it no longer exists. And I

> hope parents continue to work towards these goals on behalf of their

> children

> with the hope that their future will be only better.

> Cheryl in VA

>

> I hope so too. " blew the minds " of many educators, etc. when

> he learned to read and all the things kids with DS were not supposed to do.

> And that is over 30 years ago. He would not have had a chance to do that

> in public school. But they were not impressed enough to apply it to other

> children. It was many years before our kids were included in public

> schools. And as you know, that is still a struggle. But I am so glad that

> now they are getting a chance.

Jessie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/26/01 3:55:26 PM Central Daylight Time,

wildwards@... writes:

> . I hope kids with DS continue to make progress and astound the

> world, breaking the " stereotype " barrier until it no longer exists. And I

> hope parents continue to work towards these goals on behalf of their

> children

> with the hope that their future will be only better.

> Cheryl in VA

>

> I hope so too. " blew the minds " of many educators, etc. when

> he learned to read and all the things kids with DS were not supposed to do.

> And that is over 30 years ago. He would not have had a chance to do that

> in public school. But they were not impressed enough to apply it to other

> children. It was many years before our kids were included in public

> schools. And as you know, that is still a struggle. But I am so glad that

> now they are getting a chance.

Jessie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/26/01 12:48:28 PM Central Daylight Time,

bspyle@... writes:

> Well said, Rick. You hit the nail on the head when you said " It is OK for

> her to have friends of her (Jan's) own choosing. " We have a wide range of

> people in our social circle ... people of all ages, economic backgrounds,

> education and ability. and are happiest with friends who are

> most like themselves. To force them to associate with people with whom they

> are less happy is ludicrous.

>

> granny

HI Granny

I think you are using some pretty strong words....like " force " Never have I

forced a relationship/friendship on any of my kids, especially Sara Some

kids are just attracted to their opposites.........I know this is true

because of the variety of " dogs " my oldest daughter has brought home

Ohhh what a potpourri of friends, one could have by including all But

again, the choice should be made with the child (and daddy Daddy's can run

off some choices of friends lol

By the way, Im have no active relationships with anyone I went to school

with, Im many miles away now and I just meet...make friends .....and then

sometimes have to say goodbye. BUT Ive been enriched by all who have been in

my path.......Sara is a creature like her Mom

Kathy mom to Sara 9

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/26/01 12:48:28 PM Central Daylight Time,

bspyle@... writes:

> Well said, Rick. You hit the nail on the head when you said " It is OK for

> her to have friends of her (Jan's) own choosing. " We have a wide range of

> people in our social circle ... people of all ages, economic backgrounds,

> education and ability. and are happiest with friends who are

> most like themselves. To force them to associate with people with whom they

> are less happy is ludicrous.

>

> granny

HI Granny

I think you are using some pretty strong words....like " force " Never have I

forced a relationship/friendship on any of my kids, especially Sara Some

kids are just attracted to their opposites.........I know this is true

because of the variety of " dogs " my oldest daughter has brought home

Ohhh what a potpourri of friends, one could have by including all But

again, the choice should be made with the child (and daddy Daddy's can run

off some choices of friends lol

By the way, Im have no active relationships with anyone I went to school

with, Im many miles away now and I just meet...make friends .....and then

sometimes have to say goodbye. BUT Ive been enriched by all who have been in

my path.......Sara is a creature like her Mom

Kathy mom to Sara 9

[Guest guest]

When was in infant stim, I asked about " reading readiness " and just

got a blank stare. So, I did it myself. When she was in first grade, her

teacher asked the school board for readers and was told she would never

teach her kids to read, so she photocopied readers, taught her students to

read, then the school board gave her some readers. Thank goodness, I

encountered fewer and fewer obstacles as time went by. Now, she is so high

functioning that no one ever tells me she can't do this or will never do

that. The only problem she seems to have are those who treat her like a pet.

granny

---

" The first casualty of war is truth. "

-- Rudyard Kipling

http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html

Re: Social/vocational/age issues

> In a message dated 9/26/01 3:55:26 PM Central Daylight Time,

> wildwards@... writes:

>

>

> > . I hope kids with DS continue to make progress and astound the

> > world, breaking the " stereotype " barrier until it no longer exists. And

I

> > hope parents continue to work towards these goals on behalf of their

> > children

> > with the hope that their future will be only better.

> > Cheryl in VA

> >

> > I hope so too. " blew the minds " of many educators, etc.

when

> > he learned to read and all the things kids with DS were not supposed to

do.

> > And that is over 30 years ago. He would not have had a chance to do

that

> > in public school. But they were not impressed enough to apply it to

other

> > children. It was many years before our kids were included in public

> > schools. And as you know, that is still a struggle. But I am so glad

that

> > now they are getting a chance.

>

> Jessie

>

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