Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 In a message dated 09/28/2001 7:42:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, b4alltoday@... writes: << We are looking at a move to a state that has the labels, and I wonder how will I fight this, can I fight this. Who makes this label decision? the team? Or the psychologist? How can any system make a placement decision based on a test score? where is LRE in this? >> Here the eligibility team is the determing factor for the label. The IEP team determines placement. So, if you were a fighting parent, you could have a child with a TMR label, and their placement could be whatever you determine is LRE .... but that don't happen here. The TMR kids go to rooms ( or trailers for many) and there they stay ... away from other kids and working on life skills only. Some school systems here are putting all kids together in Cross Categorical classes where they mix labels up. Many parents are very upset by this setting because some of the kids are very severe and profound and there ends up being no life skills, no academics, no verbalization except from teachers. School can be a nightmare! Cheryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 In a message dated 09/28/2001 7:42:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, b4alltoday@... writes: << We are looking at a move to a state that has the labels, and I wonder how will I fight this, can I fight this. Who makes this label decision? the team? Or the psychologist? How can any system make a placement decision based on a test score? where is LRE in this? >> Here the eligibility team is the determing factor for the label. The IEP team determines placement. So, if you were a fighting parent, you could have a child with a TMR label, and their placement could be whatever you determine is LRE .... but that don't happen here. The TMR kids go to rooms ( or trailers for many) and there they stay ... away from other kids and working on life skills only. Some school systems here are putting all kids together in Cross Categorical classes where they mix labels up. Many parents are very upset by this setting because some of the kids are very severe and profound and there ends up being no life skills, no academics, no verbalization except from teachers. School can be a nightmare! Cheryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 In a message dated 09/28/2001 10:11:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lowenthalrj@... writes: << I thought it was offensive and since parents and other students w/o labels may read and use the info to ID students, a very questionable >> Breach of confidentiality and I would point that out to the superintendent. Va. Beach had an incident where they posted the teacher titles in a school yearbook under the class photos! Cheryl in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 In a message dated 09/28/2001 10:11:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lowenthalrj@... writes: << I thought it was offensive and since parents and other students w/o labels may read and use the info to ID students, a very questionable >> Breach of confidentiality and I would point that out to the superintendent. Va. Beach had an incident where they posted the teacher titles in a school yearbook under the class photos! Cheryl in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 Same state as Cheryl. Our district whenever possible uses evaluation process and IQ to determine EMR/TMR labels and there is little academic educaton going on in either. State regs support the labels; labels support the placement; and the wheels go round. On a related note, our schools get a section of the newspaper each week to put school news notes. Usually I glance thru the ones our kids attend. This week, my mouth fell open when I looked. One middle school has a list of new personnel--pretty common this time of year. What made this one so striking was that they included full titles (Jane Doe, trainable mentally retarded teacher; , learning disabled aide; etc.). I thought it was offensive and since parents and other students w/o labels may read and use the info to ID students, a very questionable thing to do. Judi Re: Placement and labels In a message dated 09/28/2001 7:42:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, b4alltoday@... writes: << We are looking at a move to a state that has the labels, and I wonder how will I fight this, can I fight this. Who makes this label decision? the team? Or the psychologist? How can any system make a placement decision based on a test score? where is LRE in this? >> Here the eligibility team is the determing factor for the label. The IEP team determines placement. So, if you were a fighting parent, you could have a child with a TMR label, and their placement could be whatever you determine is LRE .... but that don't happen here. The TMR kids go to rooms ( or trailers for many) and there they stay ... away from other kids and working on life skills only. Some school systems here are putting all kids together in Cross Categorical classes where they mix labels up. Many parents are very upset by this setting because some of the kids are very severe and profound and there ends up being no life skills, no academics, no verbalization except from teachers. School can be a nightmare! Cheryl Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for messages to go to the sender of the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 Same state as Cheryl. Our district whenever possible uses evaluation process and IQ to determine EMR/TMR labels and there is little academic educaton going on in either. State regs support the labels; labels support the placement; and the wheels go round. On a related note, our schools get a section of the newspaper each week to put school news notes. Usually I glance thru the ones our kids attend. This week, my mouth fell open when I looked. One middle school has a list of new personnel--pretty common this time of year. What made this one so striking was that they included full titles (Jane Doe, trainable mentally retarded teacher; , learning disabled aide; etc.). I thought it was offensive and since parents and other students w/o labels may read and use the info to ID students, a very questionable thing to do. Judi Re: Placement and labels In a message dated 09/28/2001 7:42:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, b4alltoday@... writes: << We are looking at a move to a state that has the labels, and I wonder how will I fight this, can I fight this. Who makes this label decision? the team? Or the psychologist? How can any system make a placement decision based on a test score? where is LRE in this? >> Here the eligibility team is the determing factor for the label. The IEP team determines placement. So, if you were a fighting parent, you could have a child with a TMR label, and their placement could be whatever you determine is LRE .... but that don't happen here. The TMR kids go to rooms ( or trailers for many) and there they stay ... away from other kids and working on life skills only. Some school systems here are putting all kids together in Cross Categorical classes where they mix labels up. Many parents are very upset by this setting because some of the kids are very severe and profound and there ends up being no life skills, no academics, no verbalization except from teachers. School can be a nightmare! Cheryl Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for messages to go to the sender of the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 In a message dated 9/28/01 8:04:09 AM Central Daylight Time, wildwards@... writes: > severe and profound > and there ends up being no life skills, no academics, no verbalization > except > from teachers. School can be a nightmare! > Cheryl > Kathy, please don't move there!!!!!!!!! Jessie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 In a message dated 9/28/01 8:04:09 AM Central Daylight Time, wildwards@... writes: > severe and profound > and there ends up being no life skills, no academics, no verbalization > except > from teachers. School can be a nightmare! > Cheryl > Kathy, please don't move there!!!!!!!!! Jessie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 In a message dated 9/28/01 8:55:46 AM, kldoll@... writes: >Both of them are inappropriate. I'll >let you know what we come up with... Best of luck Kim! I hope you succeed. In the spring before was to start K our area on the west side of Phoenix still had a separate school for special education and this was 1988. All the west side schools sent sped students there, it was called Far West Developmental Learning Center, miles away from any of the regular schools. A year before this I met a parent in town one day (yes I was out shopping!! lol). Her daughter was 19 and went to this center. They were in the Air Force and fixing to be transferred and she was glad. She said to me; " fight the schools, do not let them send you girl there. It is nothing more than a baby-sitting center. I always felt that my Sherry could have learned to read and write but they labeled her TMR and wouldn't even try. " After 's initial eval, the principal said to me one day... " maybe we ought to think about Far West. " I told him what this parent had said to me and asked if he had ever been there. He hadn't but said he was going to go and see for himself. The next time I was over at school he called me into his office. He said, will come here to school, she is one of our children and will go to class just like everyone else. I asked if he had been to Far West. His eyes teared up, he wouldn't even talk about it but said, no student of ours will ever go there again. As it turned out the state shut the place down over the summer and ordered all the schools to take back their students. We still had the TMR and EMR labels. When the sped teacher heard that was coming to school, she objected, saying that was only TMR and she shouldn't have to teach her. She told the principal that would never learn to read or write and was only capable of leaning basic life skills. When school started in the fall this sped teacher was no longer there )). At our first IEP the check box was for EMR, but the principal said....none of us know what is capable of learning, we will give her just what we do everyone else and just see how much she can do. Now all the schools here have ditched EMR and TMR but is all they did was replace it with MOMR and MIMR (moderately mentally retarded /mildly mentally retarded) At the last HS was going to they just called it life skills because the school was not big enough for two separate rooms. The sped director stated one day....those kids don't need academics. Many of the regular teachers just called it the MR room. They couldn't say it was --so " n " so's-- room because the teacher changed so often.....five last year alone. We are fixing to move up to Goodyear, a city on the west side of Phoenix, 30 miles from here. In January I will enroll Cat in a new HS. We are taking this semester off. We are doing our own life skills......packing, cleaning, shopping!! LOL We have also been working on STAYIN HOME ALONE! Up till now because of the distance away I would be (30 to 50 miles) when shopping I avoided leaving her here alone and always dragged her with me. She does like to shop, but not for necessities LOL. I have already gone to visit the new school. The secretary in the sped office asked me, what classroom would you like to visit, the MOMR room or the MIMR room? Oh well here we go again!!!! has completed 3 years of HS now. My focus from here on out will be transition from school to work. I do intend to put her in a couple of the activities in the MIMR class, but that is not the only place she will be! So, whats my point in rambling on about all this? a couple of things......to all the parents of young children...... don't let them use the labels to avoid attempting to teach the 3 r's. To be sure there are schools around the county that do teach reading etc in sped classes, but on the other hand there are many many that don't. Be involved, go see the classrooms. 's article on observing the classrooms is great, do it! The label special education is enough, dividing it into catagories is not necessary. We have students at school label gifted, is that divided into catagories like midly or moderately? NO. ok I said enough...gotta go to town to check on the new house!! LOL Green mom to 18/ds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 In a message dated 9/28/01 8:55:46 AM, kldoll@... writes: >Both of them are inappropriate. I'll >let you know what we come up with... Best of luck Kim! I hope you succeed. In the spring before was to start K our area on the west side of Phoenix still had a separate school for special education and this was 1988. All the west side schools sent sped students there, it was called Far West Developmental Learning Center, miles away from any of the regular schools. A year before this I met a parent in town one day (yes I was out shopping!! lol). Her daughter was 19 and went to this center. They were in the Air Force and fixing to be transferred and she was glad. She said to me; " fight the schools, do not let them send you girl there. It is nothing more than a baby-sitting center. I always felt that my Sherry could have learned to read and write but they labeled her TMR and wouldn't even try. " After 's initial eval, the principal said to me one day... " maybe we ought to think about Far West. " I told him what this parent had said to me and asked if he had ever been there. He hadn't but said he was going to go and see for himself. The next time I was over at school he called me into his office. He said, will come here to school, she is one of our children and will go to class just like everyone else. I asked if he had been to Far West. His eyes teared up, he wouldn't even talk about it but said, no student of ours will ever go there again. As it turned out the state shut the place down over the summer and ordered all the schools to take back their students. We still had the TMR and EMR labels. When the sped teacher heard that was coming to school, she objected, saying that was only TMR and she shouldn't have to teach her. She told the principal that would never learn to read or write and was only capable of leaning basic life skills. When school started in the fall this sped teacher was no longer there )). At our first IEP the check box was for EMR, but the principal said....none of us know what is capable of learning, we will give her just what we do everyone else and just see how much she can do. Now all the schools here have ditched EMR and TMR but is all they did was replace it with MOMR and MIMR (moderately mentally retarded /mildly mentally retarded) At the last HS was going to they just called it life skills because the school was not big enough for two separate rooms. The sped director stated one day....those kids don't need academics. Many of the regular teachers just called it the MR room. They couldn't say it was --so " n " so's-- room because the teacher changed so often.....five last year alone. We are fixing to move up to Goodyear, a city on the west side of Phoenix, 30 miles from here. In January I will enroll Cat in a new HS. We are taking this semester off. We are doing our own life skills......packing, cleaning, shopping!! LOL We have also been working on STAYIN HOME ALONE! Up till now because of the distance away I would be (30 to 50 miles) when shopping I avoided leaving her here alone and always dragged her with me. She does like to shop, but not for necessities LOL. I have already gone to visit the new school. The secretary in the sped office asked me, what classroom would you like to visit, the MOMR room or the MIMR room? Oh well here we go again!!!! has completed 3 years of HS now. My focus from here on out will be transition from school to work. I do intend to put her in a couple of the activities in the MIMR class, but that is not the only place she will be! So, whats my point in rambling on about all this? a couple of things......to all the parents of young children...... don't let them use the labels to avoid attempting to teach the 3 r's. To be sure there are schools around the county that do teach reading etc in sped classes, but on the other hand there are many many that don't. Be involved, go see the classrooms. 's article on observing the classrooms is great, do it! The label special education is enough, dividing it into catagories is not necessary. We have students at school label gifted, is that divided into catagories like midly or moderately? NO. ok I said enough...gotta go to town to check on the new house!! LOL Green mom to 18/ds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 Cheryl writes: <snip> The TMR kids go to rooms (or trailers for many) and there they stay ... away from other kids and working on life skills only. Some school systems here are putting all kids together in Cross Categorical classes where they mix labels up. Many parents are very upset by this setting because some of the kids are very severe and profound and there ends up being no life skills, no academics, no verbalization except from teachers. School can be a nightmare! ---------------------------- Remind me again, why are we sending our children there? See Visiting School, at http://www.community-works.net/articles/visiting_school.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 Cheryl writes: <snip> The TMR kids go to rooms (or trailers for many) and there they stay ... away from other kids and working on life skills only. Some school systems here are putting all kids together in Cross Categorical classes where they mix labels up. Many parents are very upset by this setting because some of the kids are very severe and profound and there ends up being no life skills, no academics, no verbalization except from teachers. School can be a nightmare! ---------------------------- Remind me again, why are we sending our children there? See Visiting School, at http://www.community-works.net/articles/visiting_school.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 All, this is such an interesting thread and I guess I would have to say that I am very fortunate in that I was able to decide my son's label. In our school district (So. Cal) once the kids turn 5, they are reclassified from DD (Developmentally Delayed) to either IWEN (Individual With Exceptional Needs) or TMR/EMR. I selected IWEN because it sounded like I Win and I like to think that my son is a winner... I am also working with the schools to change the names of their SPED classes. Right now they use " Life Skills " or " Basic Skills " to label the classes. Both of them are inappropriate. I'll let you know what we come up with... Kim ~ mon to Jordan (6 w/ds) and Margaret (16 w/o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 All, this is such an interesting thread and I guess I would have to say that I am very fortunate in that I was able to decide my son's label. In our school district (So. Cal) once the kids turn 5, they are reclassified from DD (Developmentally Delayed) to either IWEN (Individual With Exceptional Needs) or TMR/EMR. I selected IWEN because it sounded like I Win and I like to think that my son is a winner... I am also working with the schools to change the names of their SPED classes. Right now they use " Life Skills " or " Basic Skills " to label the classes. Both of them are inappropriate. I'll let you know what we come up with... Kim ~ mon to Jordan (6 w/ds) and Margaret (16 w/o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 In a message dated 9/28/2001 2:33:15 PM Central Daylight Time, Green3@... writes: << She does like to shop, but not for necessities LOL. >> videos aren't necessities out in the middle of the desert???? (won't say which one. heheheeehe) Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 In a message dated 9/28/2001 2:33:15 PM Central Daylight Time, Green3@... writes: << She does like to shop, but not for necessities LOL. >> videos aren't necessities out in the middle of the desert???? (won't say which one. heheheeehe) Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 Watch it, Jessie, this is my state too! Pitiful as inclusion is at most times. ; ) Where are you thinking of moving, Kathy? Judi Re: Placement and labels In a message dated 9/28/01 8:04:09 AM Central Daylight Time, wildwards@... writes: > severe and profound > and there ends up being no life skills, no academics, no verbalization > except > from teachers. School can be a nightmare! > Cheryl > Kathy, please don't move there!!!!!!!!! Jessie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 Watch it, Jessie, this is my state too! Pitiful as inclusion is at most times. ; ) Where are you thinking of moving, Kathy? Judi Re: Placement and labels In a message dated 9/28/01 8:04:09 AM Central Daylight Time, wildwards@... writes: > severe and profound > and there ends up being no life skills, no academics, no verbalization > except > from teachers. School can be a nightmare! > Cheryl > Kathy, please don't move there!!!!!!!!! Jessie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 hi all, Unfortunately, in Miami Florida, we still have labels. Alec is in a class that is labeled EMH. They go by the general ed curriculum and books. It is a totally academic emphasis in his class. As a matter of fact this year, he has do to a science project . Up until this point, Alec has needed the smaller class size ( our general ed class sizes are much bigger then other places). lori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 hi all, Unfortunately, in Miami Florida, we still have labels. Alec is in a class that is labeled EMH. They go by the general ed curriculum and books. It is a totally academic emphasis in his class. As a matter of fact this year, he has do to a science project . Up until this point, Alec has needed the smaller class size ( our general ed class sizes are much bigger then other places). lori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 Hi Lori, This is good to hear about there use of the general ed curriculum. Before I left for town today I received a call from a parent in North Phoenix. Ever since the article in the paper came out I have had quite a number of calls. The parent was looking for help. She has a daughter 15 in a life skills class and she said that it was nothing more than a babysitting service, they do nothing. Green mom to 18/ds In a message dated 9/28/01 4:12:19 PM, speechgate@... writes: >Unfortunately, in Miami Florida, we still have labels. Alec is in a class > >that is labeled EMH. They go by the general ed curriculum and books. > It >is a totally academic emphasis in his class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 Hi Lori, This is good to hear about there use of the general ed curriculum. Before I left for town today I received a call from a parent in North Phoenix. Ever since the article in the paper came out I have had quite a number of calls. The parent was looking for help. She has a daughter 15 in a life skills class and she said that it was nothing more than a babysitting service, they do nothing. Green mom to 18/ds In a message dated 9/28/01 4:12:19 PM, speechgate@... writes: >Unfortunately, in Miami Florida, we still have labels. Alec is in a class > >that is labeled EMH. They go by the general ed curriculum and books. > It >is a totally academic emphasis in his class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 In a message dated 9/28/01 1:45:54 PM Central Daylight Time, lowenthalrj@... writes: > Watch it, Jessie, this is my state too! Pitiful as inclusion is at most > times. ; ) > Where are you thinking of moving, Kathy? > > Judi HI Judi Well, hubby was looking at Nashville and Greensboro but found out today that the Nashville job went to someone in that station ;( so with Mike's old boss pressing him to come to the new hub, it looks like it will be Greensboro NC. I haven't told my Mom yet, she was soooo hoping it would be Nashville....only 2 hours away. In fact you all are the first to know besides Mike and Me Ahhh you all are family Kathy mom to Sara 9...........who has made zero head way on getting the house ready to sell........I don't know what Im waiting on lolol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 In a message dated 9/28/01 1:45:54 PM Central Daylight Time, lowenthalrj@... writes: > Watch it, Jessie, this is my state too! Pitiful as inclusion is at most > times. ; ) > Where are you thinking of moving, Kathy? > > Judi HI Judi Well, hubby was looking at Nashville and Greensboro but found out today that the Nashville job went to someone in that station ;( so with Mike's old boss pressing him to come to the new hub, it looks like it will be Greensboro NC. I haven't told my Mom yet, she was soooo hoping it would be Nashville....only 2 hours away. In fact you all are the first to know besides Mike and Me Ahhh you all are family Kathy mom to Sara 9...........who has made zero head way on getting the house ready to sell........I don't know what Im waiting on lolol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2001 Report Share Posted September 29, 2001 In a message dated 9/28/2001 11:32:07 PM Central Daylight Time, b4alltoday@... writes: << ..I don't know what Im waiting on lolol >> Being head procastinator I could tell you it's cause you work best under pressure.........but I won't. heheehehe Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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