Re: Post Secondary Education

[Guest guest]

It would seem, as for any individual- whether there is or is not a disability-

that the parents or the student pays for the tuition for any college class.

Stufents taking college classes while still in high school also pay for them-

not the school district.

Who would you think should pay for it?

Post Secondary Education

If a student completes, but does not graduate from High School, and attends a

junior college through an IEP. Who pays the tuition and expenses?

Thank you!

[Guest guest]

It would seem, as for any individual- whether there is or is not a disability-

that the parents or the student pays for the tuition for any college class.

Stufents taking college classes while still in high school also pay for them-

not the school district.

Who would you think should pay for it?

Post Secondary Education

If a student completes, but does not graduate from High School, and attends a

junior college through an IEP. Who pays the tuition and expenses?

Thank you!

[Guest guest]

Depends on how old the student is?

 

If 22, or older --  not the high school district!

If under 22, and the high school IEP team agrees it is an appropriate placemnt,

the high school district.

Humbly grateful to be your companion

on the journey...

Gordon P. Stiefel

Phone: 708 246 5151

Fax: 708 246 9144

" All great change in America

begins at the dinner table " , Reagan.

" Now more than ever, in a world all too often deprived of light and

the courage of noble ideals, it is not the time to be ashamed of the Gospel (cf.

Rom 1: 16).

Rather, it is time to preach it from the rooftops (cf. Mt 10: 27)! "

National Meeting of Young Catholics of Switzerland (2004), Address of

II

..

From: JGandE@... <JGandE@...>

Subject: Post Secondary Education

IPADDUnite

Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 3:09 PM

 

If a student completes, but does not graduate from High School, and attends a

junior college through an IEP. Who pays the tuition and expenses?

Thank you!

[Guest guest]

Depends on how old the student is?

 

If 22, or older --  not the high school district!

If under 22, and the high school IEP team agrees it is an appropriate placemnt,

the high school district.

Humbly grateful to be your companion

on the journey...

Gordon P. Stiefel

Phone: 708 246 5151

Fax: 708 246 9144

" All great change in America

begins at the dinner table " , Reagan.

" Now more than ever, in a world all too often deprived of light and

the courage of noble ideals, it is not the time to be ashamed of the Gospel (cf.

Rom 1: 16).

Rather, it is time to preach it from the rooftops (cf. Mt 10: 27)! "

National Meeting of Young Catholics of Switzerland (2004), Address of

II

..

From: JGandE@... <JGandE@...>

Subject: Post Secondary Education

IPADDUnite

Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 3:09 PM

 

If a student completes, but does not graduate from High School, and attends a

junior college through an IEP. Who pays the tuition and expenses?

Thank you!

[Guest guest]

In the current economy, this is changing. 

If the student is still receiving transition services through the school

district (probably, public school districts are the only place using an IEP),

then taking classes at the local jr college was decided with the student and

probably parents.  School district should have been clear when the jr college

topic came up who was going to pay tuition.

If the student is not receiving transition services, then does the student

really have an IEP?  When did the student exit the school district?  

In my son's case, he was in transition for 2 years.  Both years he attended

some PE and job skills classes (for those w/DD) at the local jr college.  First

year, the school district paid.  Second year, school district did not pay due

to budget cuts.  Transition staff was very apologetic about the change, and

naturally gave us the option to not have him take the jr college classes but

instead be at the transition program for the whole school day.

Now, if a district had a transition program that insisted that students take a

class or two at the jr college, said that the program did not have any

alternatives during that time slot, and then told the parents to pay, then I

think there is a big gripe.  

-Gail

From: JGandE@... <JGandE@...>

Subject: Post Secondary Education

IPADDUnite

Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 3:09 PM

 

If a student completes, but does not graduate from High School, and attends a

junior college through an IEP. Who pays the tuition and expenses?

Thank you!

[Guest guest]

In the current economy, this is changing. 

If the student is still receiving transition services through the school

district (probably, public school districts are the only place using an IEP),

then taking classes at the local jr college was decided with the student and

probably parents.  School district should have been clear when the jr college

topic came up who was going to pay tuition.

If the student is not receiving transition services, then does the student

really have an IEP?  When did the student exit the school district?  

In my son's case, he was in transition for 2 years.  Both years he attended

some PE and job skills classes (for those w/DD) at the local jr college.  First

year, the school district paid.  Second year, school district did not pay due

to budget cuts.  Transition staff was very apologetic about the change, and

naturally gave us the option to not have him take the jr college classes but

instead be at the transition program for the whole school day.

Now, if a district had a transition program that insisted that students take a

class or two at the jr college, said that the program did not have any

alternatives during that time slot, and then told the parents to pay, then I

think there is a big gripe.  

-Gail

From: JGandE@... <JGandE@...>

Subject: Post Secondary Education

IPADDUnite

Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 3:09 PM

 

If a student completes, but does not graduate from High School, and attends a

junior college through an IEP. Who pays the tuition and expenses?

Thank you!

[Guest guest]

Also, keep in mind, if someone is receiving SSI benefits, the Department of

Rehabilitation Services may pay for a 2 or 4 year state school. (not a private

school and not out of state school).

________________________________

From: G Mrozak <mrsovaltine@...>

IPADDUnite

Sent: Wed, March 31, 2010 8:28:16 AM

Subject: Re: Post Secondary Education

 

In the current economy, this is changing. 

If the student is still receiving transition services through the school

district (probably, public school districts are the only place using an IEP),

then taking classes at the local jr college was decided with the student and

probably parents.  School district should have been clear when the jr college

topic came up who was going to pay tuition.

If the student is not receiving transition services, then does the student

really have an IEP?  When did the student exit the school district?  

In my son's case, he was in transition for 2 years.  Both years he attended

some PE and job skills classes (for those w/DD) at the local jr college.  First

year, the school district paid.  Second year, school district did not pay due

to budget cuts.  Transition staff was very apologetic about the change, and

naturally gave us the option to not have him take the jr college classes but

instead be at the transition program for the whole school day.

Now, if a district had a transition program that insisted that students take a

class or two at the jr college, said that the program did not have any

alternatives during that time slot, and then told the parents to pay, then I

think there is a big gripe.  

-Gail

From: JGandE@... <JGandE@...>

Subject: Post Secondary Education

IPADDUnite@gro ups.com

Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 3:09 PM

 

If a student completes, but does not graduate from High School, and attends a

junior college through an IEP. Who pays the tuition and expenses?

Thank you!

[Guest guest]

Also, keep in mind, if someone is receiving SSI benefits, the Department of

Rehabilitation Services may pay for a 2 or 4 year state school. (not a private

school and not out of state school).

________________________________

From: G Mrozak <mrsovaltine@...>

IPADDUnite

Sent: Wed, March 31, 2010 8:28:16 AM

Subject: Re: Post Secondary Education

 

In the current economy, this is changing. 

If the student is still receiving transition services through the school

district (probably, public school districts are the only place using an IEP),

then taking classes at the local jr college was decided with the student and

probably parents.  School district should have been clear when the jr college

topic came up who was going to pay tuition.

If the student is not receiving transition services, then does the student

really have an IEP?  When did the student exit the school district?  

In my son's case, he was in transition for 2 years.  Both years he attended

some PE and job skills classes (for those w/DD) at the local jr college.  First

year, the school district paid.  Second year, school district did not pay due

to budget cuts.  Transition staff was very apologetic about the change, and

naturally gave us the option to not have him take the jr college classes but

instead be at the transition program for the whole school day.

Now, if a district had a transition program that insisted that students take a

class or two at the jr college, said that the program did not have any

alternatives during that time slot, and then told the parents to pay, then I

think there is a big gripe.  

-Gail

From: JGandE@... <JGandE@...>

Subject: Post Secondary Education

IPADDUnite@gro ups.com

Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 3:09 PM

 

If a student completes, but does not graduate from High School, and attends a

junior college through an IEP. Who pays the tuition and expenses?

Thank you!

[Guest guest]

Forgive me, if the commentary about to follow is not sensitive to your

situation, Gail,  but the fact of the matter that more and more districts use

the budget as the get out of service delivery free card just makes me see RED.

 

Sorry, no, this is nothing new or a change.

 

Its classic staff guilting the parents of kids with special needs at its finest

cause our kids cost so much, ya know. Budget cuts do not relieve a school

district from service delivery mandated in an IEP. $$$ - Not our problem as long

as IEP team has agreed as appropriate 

 

Transitions services mandated to start when a child is 14 1/2 years old.

Does not mean all districts deliver, or delivery appropriately. Services NOT

program

 

Moreover, special education as long as the IEP team has deemed the person as

qualified continues to age 21, and 364 days. This is commonly done when a

graduation or exit date is determined but not always. This was clarified and

reaffirmed in Illinois when some districts were graduating kids with

disabilities after 4 years of service delivery - regardless of whether or not

they had earned a hs diploma.

 

In the case cited below, it seems more like a change in IEP placement driven by

budget cuts. Low or no cost organizations like Equip for Equality exist to help

fight these placement battles. 

 

It is the IEP that drives the services for each kid -- NOT whatever transition

program the school cookie cutter has created.

 

IEP is king!

 

If IEP team all agrees the best placement is the local community college and

agree on eligibilty piece, then school district pays as partr of delivery of

IEP.

 

If IEP team does not agree, but parents feel it is most appropriate, then off to

due process as a placement matter - BUT meanwhile the placement in the case as

cited below at the community college with the district paying remains in place!.

 

Especially with our kids in IPADD families, 18 - 21 service delivery should be

very creative to meet the educational needs of the kids to reach their highest

human potential. If not, we are going to bore them and have behaviorial

problems.

 

A case to remember is Ross v Local School District - Rett kid expelled from

school due to behavior issues - Courts ruled appropriately to uphol;d explusion.

Behavior issues are truly designed to protect all in the building and is truly

the get the kid out of here legally card!

 

The current one is for Districts to approve all kinds of services, aka Chicago

Public Schools  but then NOT deliver based on inability to be able to hire

people. I saw this last in the 1990's when  Illinois suddenly said you no

longer need the licensed e.g. PT to deliver the pt services but a PT Assistant

could do it... No way to fight this budget issue.

 

Sorry, gail and all, for the long email but as a lay advocate in special

ed these kinds of manipulations by districts gall me...

 

My other fav to save $$$... kid no longer needs an IEP, we'll  just do it

under the Rehab Act as you really want to egt rid of that Special Ed label at

the community college..

Oops, sorry, services under Rehab Act end after 4 years or graduation

generally!  

Humbly grateful to be your companion

on the journey...

Gordon P. Stiefel

Phone: 708 246 5151

Fax: 708 246 9144

" All great change in America

begins at the dinner table " , Reagan.

" Now more than ever, in a world all too often deprived of light and

the courage of noble ideals, it is not the time to be ashamed of the Gospel (cf.

Rom 1: 16).

Rather, it is time to preach it from the rooftops (cf. Mt 10: 27)! "

National Meeting of Young Catholics of Switzerland (2004), Address of

II

..

From: JGandE@... <JGandE@...>

Subject: Post Secondary Education

IPADDUnite@gro ups.com

Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 3:09 PM

 

If a student completes, but does not graduate from High School, and attends a

junior college through an IEP. Who pays the tuition and expenses?

Thank you!

[Guest guest]

Forgive me, if the commentary about to follow is not sensitive to your

situation, Gail,  but the fact of the matter that more and more districts use

the budget as the get out of service delivery free card just makes me see RED.

 

Sorry, no, this is nothing new or a change.

 

Its classic staff guilting the parents of kids with special needs at its finest

cause our kids cost so much, ya know. Budget cuts do not relieve a school

district from service delivery mandated in an IEP. $$$ - Not our problem as long

as IEP team has agreed as appropriate 

 

Transitions services mandated to start when a child is 14 1/2 years old.

Does not mean all districts deliver, or delivery appropriately. Services NOT

program

 

Moreover, special education as long as the IEP team has deemed the person as

qualified continues to age 21, and 364 days. This is commonly done when a

graduation or exit date is determined but not always. This was clarified and

reaffirmed in Illinois when some districts were graduating kids with

disabilities after 4 years of service delivery - regardless of whether or not

they had earned a hs diploma.

 

In the case cited below, it seems more like a change in IEP placement driven by

budget cuts. Low or no cost organizations like Equip for Equality exist to help

fight these placement battles. 

 

It is the IEP that drives the services for each kid -- NOT whatever transition

program the school cookie cutter has created.

 

IEP is king!

 

If IEP team all agrees the best placement is the local community college and

agree on eligibilty piece, then school district pays as partr of delivery of

IEP.

 

If IEP team does not agree, but parents feel it is most appropriate, then off to

due process as a placement matter - BUT meanwhile the placement in the case as

cited below at the community college with the district paying remains in place!.

 

Especially with our kids in IPADD families, 18 - 21 service delivery should be

very creative to meet the educational needs of the kids to reach their highest

human potential. If not, we are going to bore them and have behaviorial

problems.

 

A case to remember is Ross v Local School District - Rett kid expelled from

school due to behavior issues - Courts ruled appropriately to uphol;d explusion.

Behavior issues are truly designed to protect all in the building and is truly

the get the kid out of here legally card!

 

The current one is for Districts to approve all kinds of services, aka Chicago

Public Schools  but then NOT deliver based on inability to be able to hire

people. I saw this last in the 1990's when  Illinois suddenly said you no

longer need the licensed e.g. PT to deliver the pt services but a PT Assistant

could do it... No way to fight this budget issue.

 

Sorry, gail and all, for the long email but as a lay advocate in special

ed these kinds of manipulations by districts gall me...

 

My other fav to save $$$... kid no longer needs an IEP, we'll  just do it

under the Rehab Act as you really want to egt rid of that Special Ed label at

the community college..

Oops, sorry, services under Rehab Act end after 4 years or graduation

generally!  

Humbly grateful to be your companion

on the journey...

Gordon P. Stiefel

Phone: 708 246 5151

Fax: 708 246 9144

" All great change in America

begins at the dinner table " , Reagan.

" Now more than ever, in a world all too often deprived of light and

the courage of noble ideals, it is not the time to be ashamed of the Gospel (cf.

Rom 1: 16).

Rather, it is time to preach it from the rooftops (cf. Mt 10: 27)! "

National Meeting of Young Catholics of Switzerland (2004), Address of

II

..

From: JGandE@... <JGandE@...>

Subject: Post Secondary Education

IPADDUnite@gro ups.com

Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 3:09 PM

 

If a student completes, but does not graduate from High School, and attends a

junior college through an IEP. Who pays the tuition and expenses?

Thank you!

[Guest guest]

Hi Sherri,

I'm just guessing that most IPADDers don't know about this great little 'secret'

in the DRS stable of services/funding. I know my jaw dropped when you first

told me about it. Care to share a little more, or direct us to a link on DRS

site that might have more details?

Thanks!

Laurie

From: Sherri Schneider

Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:37 AM

IPADDUnite

Subject: Re: Post Secondary Education

Also, keep in mind, if someone is receiving SSI benefits, the Department of

Rehabilitation Services may pay for a 2 or 4 year state school. (not a private

school and not out of state school).

[Guest guest]

Hi Sherri,

I'm just guessing that most IPADDers don't know about this great little 'secret'

in the DRS stable of services/funding. I know my jaw dropped when you first

told me about it. Care to share a little more, or direct us to a link on DRS

site that might have more details?

Thanks!

Laurie

From: Sherri Schneider

Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:37 AM

IPADDUnite

Subject: Re: Post Secondary Education

Also, keep in mind, if someone is receiving SSI benefits, the Department of

Rehabilitation Services may pay for a 2 or 4 year state school. (not a private

school and not out of state school).

[Guest guest]

I referred your question to Sue Walter from ISBE and am awaiting a response,

will post when I get it. This is a question that comes up with some frequency,

so thanks for posting it. Laurie

[Guest guest]

I referred your question to Sue Walter from ISBE and am awaiting a response,

will post when I get it. This is a question that comes up with some frequency,

so thanks for posting it. Laurie

[Guest guest]

Wow!!! Never heard this either!

Re: Post Secondary Education

Hi Sherri,

'm just guessing that most IPADDers don't know about this great little 'secret'

n the DRS stable of services/funding. I know my jaw dropped when you first

old me about it. Care to share a little more, or direct us to a link on DRS

ite that might have more details?

hanks!

aurie

rom: Sherri Schneider

ent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:37 AM

o: IPADDUnite

ubject: Re: Post Secondary Education

lso, keep in mind, if someone is receiving SSI benefits, the Department of

ehabilitation Services may pay for a 2 or 4 year state school. (not a private

chool and not out of state school).

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Wow!!! Never heard this either!

Re: Post Secondary Education

Hi Sherri,

'm just guessing that most IPADDers don't know about this great little 'secret'

n the DRS stable of services/funding. I know my jaw dropped when you first

old me about it. Care to share a little more, or direct us to a link on DRS

ite that might have more details?

hanks!

aurie

rom: Sherri Schneider

ent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:37 AM

o: IPADDUnite

ubject: Re: Post Secondary Education

lso, keep in mind, if someone is receiving SSI benefits, the Department of

ehabilitation Services may pay for a 2 or 4 year state school. (not a private

chool and not out of state school).

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Here's a link to information (from the thinkcollege website) about the program

at Mason

http://www.thinkcollege.net/databases/programs-database/program/77

>

> Folks,

>

> Do any of you know firsthand of universities offering post-secondary programs

for adults with developmental delays like our kids?

>

> I thought Mason (in DC), NKU (Northern KY), and Marshall (West Va),

did, but cannot seem to figure it out...

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

> Eleanor

>

[Guest guest]

I am not up to date on all programs, but there are a number of programs

specifically aimed at people with developmental disability.

New York Institute of Technology had a program which is either

residential or live-in. We looked at it 17 years ago when we were

looking for the next step beyond high school. It was a separate campus

and full of world wise city kids which didn't look like a reasonable

setting. At the time there were no students with down syndrome.

Lesley College in Boston has another program. It was designed after a

program at NYU which was closed just after the first person with DS got

in. I believe that the Lesley program still exists. I know of a couple

of young women with DS who attended. It was not a particularly good

story in that toward the end the disdain of most of the students for the

two with DS became very clear. It had little support outside of class

and we didn't think Jan was ready for dorm living and unrestricted

college life.

Taft College in Bakersfield, CA has a program, again a separate program

for the intellectually challenged. Jan has a good friend who attended

and graduated from that program. Like all, it is small and not really

prepared to meet the need. I am good friends of the parents of the

woman who attended. At this point I am not sure how they pick who gets

in (hopefully not by SAT scores), but the program is probably restricted

to CA residents.

Lots of colleges and community colleges will work with family to find

some courses that can be taken and they often have " remedial "

introduction courses that might work well. This is generally an

individual negotiation. Still, many of the young adults in " college "

are not in the same academic environment and not headed toward any real

degree or certificate program. They seem to be taking scattered courses

with less intellectual challenge ranging from art to vocational.

Then there are the private schools training our population for

independent living. Chapel Haven, Maplebrook, and Jespy House are three

of these. My daughter went to Chapel Haven as the first student with

ds. Kingsley went to Maplebrook and his co-author Mitch

went to Jespy. The last two wrote " Count Us In " . There are more of

these scattered around the country, but these private institutions are

as expensive as a private college because of the need for highly

individualized training. They go a long way in helping with the

transition from public school to adult life, but support (family or

otherwise) is still required by most of the graduates.

At the budget level (supported largely by the state):

There are a number of things called " workshops " or " day programs " , some

of which are remarkably good. Janet was in a Hope Services workshop a

in CA for a while. That is a large program that has job training and

placement as its aim (something that is difficult to achieve for many of

the students). It has good classes in things like current events, math,

and for Janet the ASL program was a real boon in that it enabled her in

the volunteer job she had for the past five years and where she

regularly worked with hearing impaired people. It also had a

" performance " program which was very, very good at improving self

confidence and social skills among some of the attendees. They have an

annual show and it was interesting to see the growth in individuals from

year to year. The teachers in some of these programs take time out from

teaching at a local junior college and are very dedicated in their work.

Jan is currently in a small day program (under 60 clients) which is very

rich. It has classes, physical fitness, music (appreciation and even

instrumental lessons), art, cooking, and excursions out into the

community. While small, it is very inclusive in the range of handicap

they service, so there is opportunity for some to learn to help others.

Yes, many of us with older children said years ago that we would never

allow placement of our child in a workshop. Well we have changed, but

more importantly, many of the programs have changed.

The web is a good start. Search on any of the schools above or any

others you find. Look at Hope Services in San , CA. Look at the

Aim Higher program. Then look locally and what is supported and also

what can be had if you can afford the tuition (and housing if needed).

Keep in mind that your child with DS is a unique individual with their

own abilities and deficits. There won't be some program that will be

perfect. You and your child need to be involved in finding the match ..

and you will have to expect both acceptance and rejection. Just

remember that most of the people who a

[Guest guest]

Hi Rick, I appreciate the info as we live in the bay area, about half hour drive

from San . I will look into the Hope Program. Do you know if there is a

waiting list?

Sent from my BlackBerry® on the MetroPCS Network

re: post secondary education

I am not up to date on all programs, but there are a number of programs

specifically aimed at people with developmental disability.

New York Institute of Technology had a program which is either

residential or live-in. We looked at it 17 years ago when we were

looking for the next step beyond high school. It was a separate campus

and full of world wise city kids which didn't look like a reasonable

setting. At the time there were no students with down syndrome.

Lesley College in Boston has another program. It was designed after a

program at NYU which was closed just after the first person with DS got

in. I believe that the Lesley program still exists. I know of a couple

of young women with DS who attended. It was not a particularly good

story in that toward the end the disdain of most of the students for the

two with DS became very clear. It had little support outside of class

and we didn't think Jan was ready for dorm living and unrestricted

college life.

Taft College in Bakersfield, CA has a program, again a separate program

for the intellectually challenged. Jan has a good friend who attended

and graduated from that program. Like all, it is small and not really

prepared to meet the need. I am good friends of the parents of the

woman who attended. At this point I am not sure how they pick who gets

in (hopefully not by SAT scores), but the program is probably restricted

to CA residents.

Lots of colleges and community colleges will work with family to find

some courses that can be taken and they often have " remedial "

introduction courses that might work well. This is generally an

individual negotiation. Still, many of the young adults in " college "

are not in the same academic environment and not headed toward any real

degree or certificate program. They seem to be taking scattered courses

with less intellectual challenge ranging from art to vocational.

Then there are the private schools training our population for

independent living. Chapel Haven, Maplebrook, and Jespy House are three

of these. My daughter went to Chapel Haven as the first student with

ds. Kingsley went to Maplebrook and his co-author Mitch

went to Jespy. The last two wrote " Count Us In " . There are more of

these scattered around the country, but these private institutions are

as expensive as a private college because of the need for highly

individualized training. They go a long way in helping with the

transition from public school to adult life, but support (family or

otherwise) is still required by most of the graduates.

At the budget level (supported largely by the state):

There are a number of things called " workshops " or " day programs " , some

of which are remarkably good. Janet was in a Hope Services workshop a

in CA for a while. That is a large program that has job training and

placement as its aim (something that is difficult to achieve for many of

the students). It has good classes in things like current events, math,

and for Janet the ASL program was a real boon in that it enabled her in

the volunteer job she had for the past five years and where she

regularly worked with hearing impaired people. It also had a

" performance " program which was very, very good at improving self

confidence and social skills among some of the attendees. They have an

annual show and it was interesting to see the growth in individuals from

year to year. The teachers in some of these programs take time out from

teaching at a local junior college and are very dedicated in their work.

Jan is currently in a small day program (under 60 clients) which is very

rich. It has classes, physical fitness, music (appreciation and even

instrumental lessons), art, cooking, and excursions out into the

community. While small, it is very inclusive in the range of handicap

they service, so there is opportunity for some to learn to help others.

Yes, many of us with older children said years ago that we would never

allow placement of our child in a workshop. Well we have changed, but

more importantly, many of the programs have changed.

The web is a good start. Search on any of the schools above or any

others you find. Look at Hope Services in San , CA. Look at the

Aim Higher program. Then look locally and what is supported and also

what can be had if you can afford the tuition (and housing if needed).

Keep in mind that your child with DS is a unique individual with their

own abilities and deficits. There won't be some program that will be

perfect. You and your child need to be involved in finding the match ..

and you will have to expect both acceptance and rejection. Just

remember that most of the people who a