Religion

[Guest guest]

Perhaps " G-d " could be in the subject line or something so anyone

uninterested could just delete!?

Lyn

[Guest guest]

Dear list,

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough. I have no problem with the word God,

nor what it represents. I am an extremely spiritual man. I live to a higher

standard of ethics than most folks I have observed in my life. Spirituality is

an every day thing with me. I'm not perfect, just attempting it. But that is my

private life. Religion is a very private thing to me. And I don't care what your

religious beliefs are, I don't want to hear them. I am not alone on this list in

this regard. There are ample religious lists and groups on the net to

satisfy anyone's need to discuss God.

I was also raised with good manners, and I believe God's grace includes the

height of good manners. Assuming anyone else wants to hear about your specific

interpretation of the Creator is obnoxious hubris. You are entitled to hold your

own beliefs only because you agree as citizens of a free society to respect

another person's different beliefs. Put in plain words, keep your religion to

yourself. There are people here of other faiths. If you want respect, then show

some.

This list is about health related topics. There are occasional points to be made

involving spirituality, but if the door is cracked open, people with an agenda

will push it wide open. This is not rhetoric, it has already happened

repeatedly. It is not necessary to discuss religion in order to discuss health

related topics. What part of this is difficult to understand.

I would be perfectly happy to have God mentioned freely if it weren't for the

three to eight (I'm guessing) members who are unable to understand where the

line is, and persist over and over pushing their little bits of scripture, never

understanding how boring and boorish they are being. The other 120 members would

like to stick to the subject. I have no problem with God or religion, just the

few misguided souls who find it necessary to quote scripture every time they

open their mouths. Is that plain enough?

There will be no bartering for religious ad space, and there will be no need to

delete the messages because they won't be there. And there will be no further

public discussion on this list of this topic. I said it is not multiple choice,

and I mean it. Nick created a controversy list for the people who want to

complain about it. Take it there. This is a health-topic list.

Having said this, I do not find essentially generic discussions of God off-topic

if it is part of any legitimate discussion, and it is not particularly

religion-specific. But those who persist in pushing the envelope will be barred

from the list. I am reacting not only to the present, but to a mind-numbing

number of private emails from very few people in the past. It's not going

anywhere from here, so I'm finished with it. If anyone wants to create a health

related list that also discusses God a lot, they are welcome to mention it here

occasionally for those interested.

jim

--

jim@... http://www.doorway.to/madscience

http://www.doorway.to/poetry ICQ:16531148

amicus certus in re incerta

[Guest guest]

Rules are rules. Follow them

Don't preach where preaching is forbidden.

Hitting seventeen hundred delete buttons in one day is time consuming. Time is

a non-renewable resource.

There are 1700 people wanting to preach--they all want on all the

channels--there is just not enough time to delete them all.

I'm annoyed when I tune into my favorite preaching channel and find that H2O

postings are filling up the page. Just use the page for its intended purpose.

My posting here is taking up space and your time. I stay out of most of this

tiresome bickering, but I'm tired of this. The creator of this site has posted

diplomatic, non-offending and persuasive reasoning that convinces me that I

wish to follow his rules.

[Guest guest]

I proofed but " sent " before signing this posting. That was unintended.

Rules are rules. Follow them

Don't preach where preaching is forbidden.

Hitting seventeen hundred delete buttons in one day is time consuming. Time is

a non-renewable resource.

There are 1700 people wanting to preach--they all want on all the

channels--there is just not enough time to delete them all.

I'm annoyed when I tune into my favorite preaching channel and find that H2O

postings are filling up the page. Just use the page for its intended purpose.

My posting here is taking up space and your time. I stay out of most of this

tiresome bickering, but I'm tired of this. The creator of this site has posted

diplomatic, non-offending and persuasive reasoning that convinces me that I

wish to follow his rules.

Collier

[Guest guest]

, you can always hit your delete button if you don't want to read the

post. We all have that option.

Goldyn

[Guest guest]

summittg@... wrote:

> From: summittg@...

>

> , you can always hit your delete button if you don't want to read the

> post. We all have that option.

>

> Goldyn

Goldyn,

When people join an e-mail list they do so because of the basic topic. Human

nature being what it is, people occasionally stray far afield from the purpose

of the list. When occasional straying becomes a pattern, the moderator must

intervene, not necessarily in a moderate manner.

It is not necessary for a list member to delete an off-topic post if it isn't

there in the first place. What part of

don't-discuss-this-topic-on-the-list-anymore don't you understand? I have lost

all patience with supposed adults who act like children making believe they

don't understand what the rules are. If you need a course in netiquette, go find

one and learn what " off-topic " means before you misguidedly attempt to instruct

another member in the subtleties.

For you and any others who wish to test the patience I no longer have on the

subject of religious zealots and their brain-dead behavior: I will sumarily bar

from the list anyone who persists in pushing their dogma. Now, go ahead and make

my day!

jim

--

jim@... http://www.doorway.to/madscience

http://www.doorway.to/poetry ICQ:16531148

amicus certus in re incerta

[Guest guest]

summittg@... wrote:

> Wow, Jim, you really are in a bad mood! I responded to 's post before

I

> read all your posts on the subject, simply because her post came before yours

> and 100 others I had in my mailbox. You know, when you belong to several

lists,

> sometimes we miss which list the message comes from, especially when you are

> trying to get through all the e-mails. I look at all my e-mails, but

sometimes

> delete them after reading a line or two. Even though this is an alternative

> health list, I don't particularly like to read 15 messages one after another

> about some topic all saying the same thing over and over again, but I don't

> complain about it. I don't consider myself to be someone " who persists in

> pushing their dogma. " I have definitely enjoyed the oxyplus list, but if you

> want to remove me because I made a reference to using the delete button (as a

> suggestion versus ranting and raving about posts like some of the other

members

> do), then I leave that to you. (And, by the way, although you sent your

> reprimand directed to me to the entire list rather than to just me, I am

> responding only to you.)

>

> Hope you have a better day,

>

> Goldyn

Goldyn,

I'm sorry if you seem to have gotten caught in the middle. Last night before I

made

my posts on religion there was a post or two suggesting that those objecting to

the

religious content could use the delete button. Your post this morning was close

to

word-for-word with those. I considered the possibility you might be responding

this

morning before getting to my posts, but I have learned the hard way that being

polite and patient simply does not work with zealots, and I shot from the hip.

The

fact that your post is grouped by content with those from last night is seen in

the

eyes of today's reader as coming after my post, so I dealt with it as such for a

very few in the greater audience with which I am dealing. I will apologize to

you on

the list, as I have been caught in a similar bind not of my making.

Writing my posts last night, trying not to lose my temper, gave me a headache

that

4- #4 codeine tablets did not relieve. I'm not going there anymore. In contrast,

this

morning there was another post about the spiritual connection in healing, and I

didn't say a word, because it made legitimate points, and was not pushing a

specific

religion.

A list like this is simply not the time or place for spreading the gospel

according

to

some. I, for one, am of another faith and I am sick and tired of the unmitigated

gall

that assumes it is OK to rub my nose into a religion that I have consciously

chosen

not to follow. I have had christian zealots waste more of my time and patience

than

I am willing to surrender. My reaction last night and this morning is not a bad

mood.

The complaints of others, as well as my own, are not misplaced.

Again, I apologize that you were unfairly singled out. It is only fair that I

publish your

response publicly, since that is where you were wronged.

Now, to the list: In God's name, please let this be the end of this.

jim

--

jim@... http://www.doorway.to/madscience

http://www.doorway.to/poetry

ICQ:16531148

amicus certus in re incerta

[Guest guest]

Sunzson@... wrote:

> Rules are rules. Follow them

>

> Don't preach where preaching is forbidden.

>

> Hitting seventeen hundred delete buttons in one day is time consuming. Time is

> a non-renewable resource.......

>

> ......My posting here is taking up space and your time. I stay out of most of

this

> tiresome bickering, but I'm tired of this. The creator of this site has posted

> diplomatic, non-offending and persuasive reasoning that convinces me that I

> wish to follow his rules.

>

> Collier

,

Well said, and I appreciate the support. But, I really would like to move on.

And, in fairness, if I am stifling one side of the discussion, I must also

stifle the other side. Folks, lets get back to health related issues.

jim

--

jim@... http://www.doorway.to/madscience

http://www.doorway.to/poetry ICQ:16531148

amicus certus in re incerta

[Guest guest]

You know, I am not offended at all when you explained your " religious "

beliefs. There is nothing wrong with you opening yourself up like that. That

takes courage to share your heart. In fact, you went into great lengths to

justify how you are not perfect and that you are just working on it because of

how you believe. You have high standards (compared to what) and that is

great. That is great you believe that. It does not offend me in the least.

But because you believe that way, does that mean I do. Of course not. Do I

believe it? No, but does that mean we have to put a gag order on your

subject. Of course not. Be free. Speak your mind, share your soul. I am

not offended in the least. I know who I am and what I am and where I am

going. Does that bother you? I hope not. It doesn't bother me that you know

where you are going. You do don't you? I mean you are real sure about your

eternity, right?

I have a foundation of TRUTH that rules my spirit and I am at peace with God,

and man. I do not want to war with words about what you believe. You don't

have to war with others who believe different or put gag orders on their

belief. I too know I can never perfect myself, but I don't depend on my own

efforts, I depend on God through Jesus Christ, to lead me through a school of

perfection that never ends. You know God has made me a lot nicer than I use

to be and I like myself a lot better than I did before because I had so much

pride that I thought anyone who did not think like me was against me. Hey, I

am not against you for what you believe. I just know something I have found

IS Truth and I have a relationship with a living God who is real and good to

me. If you reject that, that is your choice. If you think I am nuts, that is

your opinion too. But we can avoid name calling because that would be warring

with words. I feel no need to put gag orders on any subject you choose unless

is it immoral (of course whose moral standard do we go by, you or my God.

Hmm) That could be another whole subject, where do morals come from. One

psychiatrist that I learned about while in Grad school felt that if we had one

standard moral system we could solve the worlds problems. Problem is whose

moral standard do we use. He was frustrated because he could agree with any

of the other Doctors so that theory would only work if we could get a world

concessus.

So, anyway, I think hostility should be gagged, but not our beliefs. You

know philosophy is the discussion of all forms of beliefs and I think it is

curious that philosophy and religion are pretty much the same. But I don't

claim either, I claim there is a real relationship with the creator available

to us and I gave His only address. Jesus Christ, the word of God. I am not

angry if you reject that. But don't put gag orders on me or others because

people may get offended. There is no reason for offense!!!!! Why get

offended? You don't have to believe a thing. But because I am completely

convinced of the TRUTH should that offend you? Of course not. You don't

even have to go to Church. Can I make you go to church, of course not? So

where do people get off with thinking opinions force anyone to do anything.

Aren't we all adults? You don't even have to read about it. If someone says

that they KNOW they have the TRUTH. Why should that bother you? You can't

make that person believe as you do, so why should be concerned with how they

believe if you disagree. Think a minute, why is it when you shared your faith

it is OK, and you share your faith right after you said that we should not do

that because it is offensive. I am not offended by what you believe or what

others believe. You just did just what you said we should not do. Could it

be it is just the name of JESUS that is offensive? We must wonder in

introspect why that name stirs up so much emotion in people? I heard God be

mentioned over and over, but why be offended over the name of JESUS. Hum But

like I said, we are all free to believe what we chose and nobody is forcing

anybody. So choose to not be offended and live and let live.

When I say TRUTH I am revering to JESUS CHRIST because he is the TRUTH, the

WAY and the Life and you know the Bible says no man comes to God except

through JESUS. Now do you have to believe that? Of course not. So why be

offended. I don't believe a word you are saying and I believe that you have a

school of lying demons. Does that mean I am forcing that belief on you? Of

course not, it just means I believe it and maybe I am right and maybe I am not

in your mind. You may think I have demons. OK, that is your opinion, am I

offended? No of course not. So why be offended. Let the 1st Amendment live

on this floor of communication and if you are assured of your eternal

salvation and you are sure you are not going to a place some people refer to

as hell. Why get offended? And what if I am right, would my telling you

about how to stay out of hell be for your good or bad. It would be for your

good. So don't be offended. Does that make you believe it? Of course not.

You have a choice. So live your choice and let others live there choice and

share their heart as well without being offended.

May God Bless You

Diann

[Guest guest]

Interesting .... How do they handle religious

education up there in the " Great White North " ????

Judi

--- <lauranra@...> wrote:

> Hey, just adding in that we are all Catholic

> too.....except for the hubby.

>

> , mom to Nicala & ,ds (3) and (1)

>

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> http://DSyndrome.com/Multiples

>

<HR>

<html>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> Interesting .... How do they handle religious

> education up there in the " Great White North " ????

> Judi

Its pretty cool. All three (and myself) have been baptised...we also have

first communion, and first confession. For schooling; its cool. IF you are

catholic you can send your child to the public system or catholic system

(just direct your taxes one way or the other). Since we are Catholic we

have a choice of which school to send the kids too. We have looked at both

and can't decide which one to choose because we are very happy with both.

If your child goes to Catholic school religion is taught there and there is

also sunday school classes at church as well.

btw this is from Nicala

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[Guest guest]

Great Post Nicala! Can't wait to hear more from you!

Judi

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/26/2000 1:02:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

TheTaeBoWay@... writes:

<< I am glad you brought this up...I am not an atheist, but I do participate

in

a religion other than Christianity...so it would be nice if I could easily

pass by any posts that talk about religious things that I am not concerned

with, etc... >>

I'm glad you both have brought this up being Jewish myself.

Problem is alot of folks write or speak without even realizing

how a person with a different belief system may receive their message.

It would be nice if folks would make an effort to label a post as a religious

one but some folks literally cannot speak without their religion seeping thru

cuz it is so large a part of them

Barb

who felt little uncomfortable when mentioned Christ at the end of a

TBTV work-out and has read his previous publicist tried to get him to tone

down his religious references but it was too large a part of him to stop

[Guest guest]

I'd also like to add that of course there will always be emails on this list

that not everyone is interested in-but religion is a touchier subject than

most...I know I have to live with daily reminders of how my religion is

different than the majority in the US (and world)...and this is something I

accept-I just wish I could be free from that when I read my fitness lists...

And I am definitely not implying that anyone who is writing about religion is

doing so to make anyone uncomfortable or feel weird-I just think that it would

helpful if I (and others like ) can skip over those emails...

Anyways, I do not want to step on any toes-I just wanted to add a bit in the

discussion...

~Kat

[Guest guest]

Folks there are going to be posts on any email list that someone isn't

interested in.

There are some messages that come through that have absolutely nothing to

do with the subject line. Yet, you don't know it until you read the

message. We all have different interests and find different things

offensive or not interesting. So where do you draw the line? Most people

just ignore what they don't want to read and delete it.

At 02:13 PM 4/26/00 EDT, you wrote:

>In a message dated 04/26/2000 1:02:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>TheTaeBoWay@... writes:

>

><< I am glad you brought this up...I am not an atheist, but I do participate

>in

> a religion other than Christianity...so it would be nice if I could easily

> pass by any posts that talk about religious things that I am not concerned

> with, etc... >>

>

>I'm glad you both have brought this up being Jewish myself.

>Problem is alot of folks write or speak without even realizing

>how a person with a different belief system may receive their message.

>It would be nice if folks would make an effort to label a post as a

religious

>one but some folks literally cannot speak without their religion seeping

thru

>cuz it is so large a part of them

>

>Barb

>who felt little uncomfortable when mentioned Christ at the end of a

>TBTV work-out and has read his previous publicist tried to get him to tone

>down his religious references but it was too large a part of him to stop

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Get paid for the stuff you know!

>Get answers for the stuff you don’t. And get $10 to spend on the site!

>1/2200/1/_/21226/_/956772849/

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>As Deb has said: " Fitness is a journey and it begins with the first step. "

>

>Visit our new vault site http://taeboon.isportsdot.com/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Very true, but all I asked was that people put in the subject line that they are talking about religion...I always read the subject line before reading the actual email so if I see a subject line that says "religion" in it I am going to immedialtly delete it without reading it. If I see an email with something in it like " Re: about me(OT)" and I start reading it and it has religion in it then I am going to be upset because I didn't want to read it. The point is that I don't want to even start reading something about religion and if I open an email that doesn't say it has religion in it then I can't ignore it since I have already started reading it. But I have no problem in deleteing an email before I have read it if it something I am not interested in reading it as long as I know what is in the email.

MGTFD

Re: religion

Folks there are going to be posts on any email list that someone isn'tinterested in. There are some messages that come through that have absolutely nothing todo with the subject line. Yet, you don't know it until you read themessage. We all have different interests and find different thingsoffensive or not interesting. So where do you draw the line? Most peoplejust ignore what they don't want to read and delete it.

[Guest guest]

I feel conflicted on this one: on the one hand, I am against

censorship; on the other hand, I don't like being evangelized to.

(No offense, ...seriously.) There is something about the way in

which some folks express their faith that makes me feel they think

that their view is the " dominant paradigm. " Not just here... I am a

social worker in a public school system, and at the Social Work

Department's special events, there is always a Christian prayer as a

blessing. There has never been any consideration shown to those of

us who aren't Christian. Even though I know that no one means to

offend, I find that offensive. I have never made a big deal about

it... I have stifled my views on this to keep the peace...I'm not

sure there's a way to bring it up that won't be off-putting to some

of my colleagues. Until I take that plunge, I'm being put off. I

have discussed my being a wiccan here, but never in a way that would

reflect that wicca is the only view through which to see the

universe. It's only one of many. Oh, how I do ramble...I think I've

made my point, so I'll try not to beat it to death, and stop here.

I love you all! Blessed be.

;-)

F

> Very true, but all I asked was that people put in the subject line

that they are talking about religion...I always read the subject line

before reading the actual email so if I see a subject line that says

" religion " in it I am going to immedialtly delete it without reading

it. If I see an email with something in it like " Re: about me(OT) "

and I start reading it and it has religion in it then I am going to

be upset because I didn't want to read it. The point is that I

don't want to even start reading something about religion and if I

open an email that doesn't say it has religion in it then I can't

ignore it since I have already started reading it. But I have no

problem in deleteing an email before I have read it if it something I

am not interested in reading it as long as I know what is in the

email.

>

>

> MGTFD

> Re: religion

>

>

> Folks there are going to be posts on any email list that someone

isn't

> interested in.

> There are some messages that come through that have absolutely

nothing to

> do with the subject line. Yet, you don't know it until you read

the

> message. We all have different interests and find different things

> offensive or not interesting. So where do you draw the line? Most

people

> just ignore what they don't want to read and delete it.

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Just because the Puritans and the founders were Christian doesn't

mean that we should be bound by that as a society in the 21st

century. They would be shocked and amazed by the mix of people who

make up this country. There are principles which transcend any one

religion. When I am at a public school function, in which a

Christian prayer is said amidst a group of diverse people (including

myself), I have a problem with that. I don't care that greenbacks

and the pledge refer to " God, " nor do I care if the Christians are in

the majority. I just don't appreciate that my beliefs are ignored

and that something more inclusive is not said, something that would

be meaningful and unifying to everyone there.

;-)

F

> > > Very true, but all I asked was that people put in the subject

line

> > that they are talking about religion...I always read the subject

line

> > before reading the actual email so if I see a subject line that

says

> > " religion " in it I am going to immedialtly delete it without

reading

> > it. If I see an email with something in it like " Re: about me

(OT) "

> > and I start reading it and it has religion in it then I am going

to

> > be upset because I didn't want to read it. The point is that I

> > don't want to even start reading something about religion and if I

> > open an email that doesn't say it has religion in it then I can't

> > ignore it since I have already started reading it. But I have no

> > problem in deleteing an email before I have read it if it

something I

> > am not interested in reading it as long as I know what is in the

> > email.

> > >

> > >

> > > MGTFD

> > > Re: religion

> > >

> > >

> > > Folks there are going to be posts on any email list that

someone

> > isn't

> > > interested in.

> > > There are some messages that come through that have absolutely

> > nothing to

> > > do with the subject line. Yet, you don't know it until you

read

> > the

> > > message. We all have different interests and find different

things

> > > offensive or not interesting. So where do you draw the line?

Most

> > people

> > > just ignore what they don't want to read and delete it.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

------

> > Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that

lets

> > you see and manage all of your finances all in one place.

> > 1/3012/1/_/21226/_/956794654/

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

------

> >

> > As Deb has said: " Fitness is a journey and it begins with the

first step. "

> >

> > Visit our new vault site http://taeboon.isportsdot.com/

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

, in response to the fact that you said " there is always a Christian

prayer.... " I think that this is because this country was founded on

Christian beliefs, Our money, that you and I spend every days even says " In

God We Trust " . Also, do you remember the " Pledge of Allegiance? " However,

although this country was built on Christian beliefs, It does not force you

to practice Christianity, it gives you a choice....Itsn't that great???

Re: religion

> >

> >

> > Folks there are going to be posts on any email list that someone

> isn't

> > interested in.

> > There are some messages that come through that have absolutely

> nothing to

> > do with the subject line. Yet, you don't know it until you read

> the

> > message. We all have different interests and find different things

> > offensive or not interesting. So where do you draw the line? Most

> people

> > just ignore what they don't want to read and delete it.

> >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets

> you see and manage all of your finances all in one place.

> 1/3012/1/_/21226/_/956794654/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> As Deb has said: " Fitness is a journey and it begins with the first step. "

>

> Visit our new vault site http://taeboon.isportsdot.com/

>

>

[Guest guest]

, in response to the fact that you said " there is always a Christian

prayer.... " I think that this is because this country was founded on

Christian beliefs, Our money, that you and I spend every days even says " In

God We Trust " . Also, do you remember the " Pledge of Allegiance? " However,

although this country was built on Christian beliefs, It does not force you

to practice Christianity, it gives you a choice....Itsn't that great???

Re: religion

> >

> >

> > Folks there are going to be posts on any email list that someone

> isn't

> > interested in.

> > There are some messages that come through that have absolutely

> nothing to

> > do with the subject line. Yet, you don't know it until you read

> the

> > message. We all have different interests and find different things

> > offensive or not interesting. So where do you draw the line? Most

> people

> > just ignore what they don't want to read and delete it.

> >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets

> you see and manage all of your finances all in one place.

> 1/3012/1/_/21226/_/956794654/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> As Deb has said: " Fitness is a journey and it begins with the first step. "

>

> Visit our new vault site http://taeboon.isportsdot.com/

>

>

[Guest guest]

F., I don't think your religious beliefs are being ignored, I just

know that this country was built on Christianity but does not force you to

be a Christian. It gives you the choice. Everything has to have something

to base its rules on and this country chose Christianity. I understand your

point, but your point can be placed in several situations such as race and

gender and people have been fighting for changes in those areas for many

years. Sometimes things are just the way they are and the way they are

going to be, we just have to live with them but we don't have to live

" according to them. " All I am saying is there are many things each of us

might not agree with that are being practiced within this society, but many

of those things will never change (although we have the right to try), we

must live according to what we believe as long as we're not hurting anybody.

I am so sorry if I offended you in anyway, because that was not my

intention....Nae

Re: religion

> > >

> > >

> > > Folks there are going to be posts on any email list that

someone

> > isn't

> > > interested in.

> > > There are some messages that come through that have absolutely

> > nothing to

> > > do with the subject line. Yet, you don't know it until you

read

> > the

> > > message. We all have different interests and find different

things

> > > offensive or not interesting. So where do you draw the line?

Most

> > people

> > > just ignore what they don't want to read and delete it.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

------

> > Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that

lets

> > you see and manage all of your finances all in one place.

> > 1/3012/1/_/21226/_/956794654/

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

------

> >

> > As Deb has said: " Fitness is a journey and it begins with the

first step. "

> >

> > Visit our new vault site http://taeboon.isportsdot.com/

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

It seems to me that my beliefs are not just being ignored ...they are

being treated as though they don't exist. The fact that I'm not

being forced to be a Christian is not the point. Yes, people have

been fighting for equity in regard to race and gender. I don't

accept that things " are just the way they are and the way they are

going to be " regarding religious tolerance, nor do I regarding race

or gender issues (not to mention a few others! LOL)...that would be

to give up on humanity's ability to grow and evolve and to let folks

off the hook regarding individual responsibility to affect change.

As a matter of fact, if things hadn't evolved from the way things

were, I might well be cooking on a stake right about now.

bell hooks (yes she spells it all lower case), is an African American

writer and commentator. I saw her speak once, and she spoke of an

instance in which she was riding first class on an airplane. The guy

next to her had his business papers spread out all over, billowing

over into her part of the center island between them. She turned to

him and said, " I know we live in a male-dominated, white supremist,

capitalist system, but I need my space! "

Hugs,

F ;-)

In tae-bo_onegroups, Winston <momie@p...> wrote:

> F., I don't think your religious beliefs are being ignored, I

just

> know that this country was built on Christianity but does not force

you to

> be a Christian. It gives you the choice. Everything has to have

something

> to base its rules on and this country chose Christianity. I

understand your

> point, but your point can be placed in several situations such as

race and

> gender and people have been fighting for changes in those areas for

many

> years. Sometimes things are just the way they are and the way they

are

> going to be, we just have to live with them but we don't have to

live

> " according to them. " All I am saying is there are many things

each of us

> might not agree with that are being practiced within this society,

but many

> of those things will never change (although we have the right to

try), we

> must live according to what we believe as long as we're not hurting

anybody.

> I am so sorry if I offended you in anyway, because that was not my

> intention....Nae

> Re: religion

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Folks there are going to be posts on any email list that

> someone

> > > isn't

> > > > interested in.

> > > > There are some messages that come through that have

absolutely

> > > nothing to

> > > > do with the subject line. Yet, you don't know it until you

> read

> > > the

> > > > message. We all have different interests and find different

> things

> > > > offensive or not interesting. So where do you draw the line?

> Most

> > > people

> > > > just ignore what they don't want to read and delete it.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------

--

> ------

> > > Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that

> lets

> > > you see and manage all of your finances all in one place.

> > > 1/3012/1/_/21226/_/956794654/

> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------

--

> ------

> > >

> > > As Deb has said: " Fitness is a journey and it begins with the

> first step. "

> > >

> > > Visit our new vault site http://taeboon.isportsdot.com/

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

F., I know and understand that you refuse to accept that SOME things

are just the way they are going to be. However, let's make a move if we

refuse to accept it, you know. That's what I mean, what WILL we do? We

have the opportunity in this free nation but are we going to do what bell

hooks did or just complain about what is happening? Let's become ( if we

are not already) movers and shakers and put into action our thoughts and

ideas if we want to see some changes...I love your examples!!! Nae

Re: religion

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Folks there are going to be posts on any email list that

> > someone

> > > > isn't

> > > > > interested in.

> > > > > There are some messages that come through that have

> absolutely

> > > > nothing to

> > > > > do with the subject line. Yet, you don't know it until you

> > read

> > > > the

> > > > > message. We all have different interests and find different

> > things

> > > > > offensive or not interesting. So where do you draw the line?

> > Most

> > > > people

> > > > > just ignore what they don't want to read and delete it.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------

> --

> > ------

> > > > Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that

> > lets

> > > > you see and manage all of your finances all in one place.

> > > > 1/3012/1/_/21226/_/956794654/

> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------

> --

> > ------

> > > >

> > > > As Deb has said: " Fitness is a journey and it begins with the

> > first step. "

> > > >

> > > > Visit our new vault site http://taeboon.isportsdot.com/

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

> F., I know and understand that you refuse to accept that SOME

things

> are just the way they are going to be. However, let's make a move

if we

> refuse to accept it, you know. That's what I mean, what WILL we

do? We

> have the opportunity in this free nation but are we going to do

what bell

> hooks did or just complain about what is happening? Let's become (

if we

> are not already) movers and shakers and put into action our

thoughts and

> ideas if we want to see some changes...I love your examples!!! Nae

I've met and I'd definitely say she's a mover and a

shaker....LOL!

who thinks is an incredible woman

[Guest guest]

>

> I've met and I'd definitely say she's a mover and a

> shaker....LOL!

>

>

> who thinks is an incredible woman

Hear hear!!! And don't forget a screamer!!!

Susi