Guest guest Posted July 27, 2000 Report Share Posted July 27, 2000 In a message dated 7/27/00 2:28:44 PM, damiani@... writes: << In my opinion, Chlorella is a very good idea. From all of my research, I can't find any negative scientific data about this food. >> As a real scientist I have to point out that data is observation. Publications are alleged data at best, theorizing at worst. While there is little in press that shows chlorella to be harmful, there are multitudinous observations of real people which show that. All you have to do is ask around. Chlorella is simply another " sulfur food. " It is very harmful to people who are high in sulfur. For those who are into the alleged " scientific data " in journal publications (especially on medline) let me point out there is " no scientific evidence " that amalgam illness is real or that autism is caused by mercury in vaccines. There is also " no scientific evidence " that anyone can have their case of autism improve significantly using any treatment whatsoever. I presume that most of those on this list are more interested in REAL science - what you observe and what conclusions can be drawn from it - rather than the " political science " you can find piled up on medline. Real scientific result: chorella is harmful and should never be taken as a mercury detox agent. Political science result: chlorella is a great detox agent for mercury. Real scientific result: your autistic children get better when you chelate the mercury out of them. Political science result: mercury has nothing to do with autism and you can't cure it. Andy Cutler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2000 Report Share Posted July 27, 2000 AndyCutler@... wrote: > << Also, if you are going to use DMSA, > it's a good idea to use a product like Sun Chlorella for a few months before > and after the DMSA. >> > > It is an extremely bad idea to use this kind of product EVER and this may be > why your wife had such a hard time the DMSA got blamed for. > > Andy In my opinion, Chlorella is a very good idea. From all of my research, I can't find any negative scientific data about this food. I wouldn't want to debate the use of Chlorella using this forum. This will be the last I post regarding the product. But any further dialog about this can be sent directly to me at ddamiani@.... I recommend to all readers of this post to do as I have. Do your own research on the product. Get 3 concurring opinions, as I did, and then make your decision to use it or not. Andy must be privy to some scientific data that I don't have on this because " extremely bad " are harsh words. Perhaps he will clarify his opinion to anyone who doesn't want to research it themselves. I'll clarify that my wife and I only found out about Chlorella AFTER her DMSA was all over. So it had no bearing on her feeling ill. The first information we got on it was from the Dr. who treated her with DMSA. (Credible source 1). Then we researched the product ourselves and found 2 other credible sources to confirm she should take it. It appears to be a very healthy FOOD, which has strong detox properties. And like anything that will detox, if you have enough toxins in your body, and the substance you take works, you MAY feel incredibly lousy for a while, until the toxins are removed. All detox substances work on all people differently, and for some will have a negative effect. So you start out slow, and back off it a bit if it makes you feel too bad. My wife has been taking it now for almost one year, and has never felt better. When our son was diagnosed as autistic, we tested him for mercury and found he too had toxic levels. We put him on chlorrela before and after DMSA, (the research says to never use then both at the same time), and the final results are in. His last heavy metal test shows extremely low levels of mercury. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2000 Report Share Posted July 28, 2000 Don, at the moment, and I am scarred to say...I am using cilantro, chlorella and ala. With Good results. I got mine from www.shokos.com Kathy [ ] Re: use of chlorella... > >AndyCutler@... wrote: > >> << Also, if you are going to use DMSA, >> it's a good idea to use a product like Sun Chlorella for a few months before >> and after the DMSA. >> >> >> It is an extremely bad idea to use this kind of product EVER and this may be >> why your wife had such a hard time the DMSA got blamed for. >> >> Andy > >In my opinion, Chlorella is a very good idea. From all of my research, I can't >find any negative scientific data about this food. > >I wouldn't want to debate the use of Chlorella using this forum. This will be >the last I post regarding the product. But any further dialog about this can be >sent directly to me at ddamiani@.... > >I recommend to all readers of this post to do as I have. Do your own research on >the product. Get 3 concurring opinions, as I did, and then make your decision to >use it or not. Andy must be privy to some scientific data that I don't have on >this because " extremely bad " are harsh words. Perhaps he will clarify his >opinion to anyone who doesn't want to research it themselves. > >I'll clarify that my wife and I only found out about Chlorella AFTER her DMSA >was all over. So it had no bearing on her feeling ill. The first information we >got on it was from the Dr. who treated her with DMSA. (Credible source 1). Then >we researched the product ourselves and found 2 other credible sources to >confirm she should take it. > >It appears to be a very healthy FOOD, which has strong detox properties. And >like anything that will detox, if you have enough toxins in your body, and the >substance you take works, you MAY feel incredibly lousy for a while, until the >toxins are removed. All detox substances work on all people differently, and for >some will have a negative effect. So you start out slow, and back off it a bit >if it makes you feel too bad. > >My wife has been taking it now for almost one year, and has never felt better. >When our son was diagnosed as autistic, we tested him for mercury and found he >too had toxic levels. We put him on chlorrela before and after DMSA, (the >research says to never use then both at the same time), and the final results >are in. His last heavy metal test shows extremely low levels of mercury. > >Don > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2000 Report Share Posted July 28, 2000 > In my opinion, Chlorella is a very good idea. From all of > my research, I can't find any negative scientific data > about this food....It appears to be a very healthy FOOD... Please see : (from the Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients) Why Blue Green Algae Makes Me Tired ------------------------------------ By M. McPartland, DO Director, Vermont Alternative Medicine URL: http://tldp.com/issue/167/algae.html Also, most algae contains vitamin B-12 'analogs' that block the assimilation of bioavailable B-12 in food (and supplements), thus causing a masked B-12 deficiency that will not show up on the standard B-12 blood tests -- thereby possibly leading to -permanent- neurological damage, if not corrected in time. Spirulina and blue-green algae, including Chlorella, have this B-12-analog problem. However, food product safety testing for B-12-analogs is probably not required by law, and too expensive to do regularly -- if it's done at all (except in clinical research). [Ref: The Myths of Vegetarianism, by Byrnes, ND, PhD, RNCP (http://www.PowerHealth.net) -- as published in: the Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, July 2000, Issue #204, pp.72-81.] A victim of the above problem -- B-12 deficiency caused by B-12 analogs -- would need the MMA (methylmalonic acid) blood test to detect a 'functional B-12 deficiency', although a cause-and-effect relationship would be difficult to prove in court, if permanent neurological injury did result. This type of injury will have a time-delay of 2 - 5 years, before the symptoms of a functional B-12 deficiency very slowly begin to become evident. Do algae eaters -ever- ask their doctor to do a MMA test ? How many doctors -ever- do a MMA test ? A B-12 deficiency is commonly misdiagnosed -- especially when the standard B-12 test comes back (false) 'normal'. If one does regularly consume Chlorella, blue green algae, or spirulina, it would seem to be prudent to also regularly use sublingual vitamin B-12. If one has neurological symptoms following several years of algae consumption, then one may need injectable vitamin B-12 (by a doctor's prescription) -- or risk serious, and progressively- irreversible neurological damage, damage which may already have begun. Good luck. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2000 Report Share Posted July 28, 2000 I'll investigate this further, but Chlorella is a green algae, not blue-gren algae. Don Bill Kingsbury wrote: > > In my opinion, Chlorella is a very good idea. From all of > > my research, I can't find any negative scientific data > > about this food....It appears to be a very healthy FOOD... > > Please see : > (from the Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients) > > Why Blue Green Algae Makes Me Tired > ------------------------------------ > By M. McPartland, DO > Director, Vermont Alternative Medicine > > URL: http://tldp.com/issue/167/algae.html > > Also, most algae contains vitamin B-12 'analogs' that block > the assimilation of bioavailable B-12 in food (and supplements), > thus causing a masked B-12 deficiency that will not show up on > the standard B-12 blood tests -- thereby possibly leading to > -permanent- neurological damage, if not corrected in time. > > Spirulina and blue-green algae, including Chlorella, have this > B-12-analog problem. However, food product safety testing for > B-12-analogs is probably not required by law, and too expensive to > do regularly -- if it's done at all (except in clinical research). > > [Ref: The Myths of Vegetarianism, by Byrnes, ND, PhD, RNCP > (http://www.PowerHealth.net) -- as published in: the Townsend > Letter for Doctors and Patients, July 2000, Issue #204, pp.72-81.] > > A victim of the above problem -- B-12 deficiency caused by B-12 > analogs -- would need the MMA (methylmalonic acid) blood test to > detect a 'functional B-12 deficiency', although a cause-and-effect > relationship would be difficult to prove in court, if permanent > neurological injury did result. This type of injury will have a > time-delay of 2 - 5 years, before the symptoms of a functional > B-12 deficiency very slowly begin to become evident. > > Do algae eaters -ever- ask their doctor to do a MMA test ? > How many doctors -ever- do a MMA test ? > > A B-12 deficiency is commonly misdiagnosed -- especially when > the standard B-12 test comes back (false) 'normal'. > > If one does regularly consume Chlorella, blue green algae, or > spirulina, it would seem to be prudent to also regularly use > sublingual vitamin B-12. If one has neurological symptoms > following several years of algae consumption, then one may need > injectable vitamin B-12 (by a doctor's prescription) -- or risk > serious, and progressively- irreversible neurological damage, > damage which may already have begun. > > Good luck. > > Bill > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2000 Report Share Posted July 28, 2000 Bill, I need more information from you. URL link number 1 ( http://tldp.com/issue/167/algae.html ) has to do with a different type of algae than the type in chlorella. URL link number 2 (The Myths of Vegetarianism, by Byrnes, ND, PhD, RNCP --Old link: (http://www.PowerHealth.net). The linked has moved to new location here: http://www.westonaprice.org/myths_truths_vegetarianism.htm ) Deals specifically with the dangers of B12 deficiency as it applies to a strict vegetarian diet, which of course is correct. Neither of these links back up your comment: "Also, most algae contains vitamin B-12 'analogs' that block the assimilation of bioavailable B-12 in food (and supplements), thus causing a masked B-12 deficiency that will not show up on the standard B-12 blood tests -- thereby possibly leading to -permanent- neurological damage, if not corrected in time." I do not see B-12 'analogs' that block the assimilation of bioavailable B-12 in food written anywhere. In fact, Byrnes, ND, PhD states in the article, "In my own practice, I recently saved two vegans from death from anemia by convincing them to eat generous amounts of dairy products. Both of these sickly gentlemen thought their B12 needs were being met by tempeh and spirulina. They weren't." What this says to me is that their assimilation of bioavailable B-12 from food, mainly the dairy products, was not blocked. Please give me the reference source of the above statement. Don Bill Kingsbury wrote: > In my opinion, Chlorella is a very good idea. >From all of > my research, I can't find any negative scientific data > about this food....It appears to be a very healthy FOOD... Please see : (from the Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients) Why Blue Green Algae Makes Me Tired ------------------------------------ By M. McPartland, DO Director, Vermont Alternative Medicine URL: http://tldp.com/issue/167/algae.html Also, most algae contains vitamin B-12 'analogs' that block the assimilation of bioavailable B-12 in food (and supplements), thus causing a masked B-12 deficiency that will not show up on the standard B-12 blood tests -- thereby possibly leading to -permanent- neurological damage, if not corrected in time. Spirulina and blue-green algae, including Chlorella, have this B-12-analog problem. However, food product safety testing for B-12-analogs is probably not required by law, and too expensive to do regularly -- if it's done at all (except in clinical research). [Ref: The Myths of Vegetarianism, by Byrnes, ND, PhD, RNCP (http://www.PowerHealth.net) -- as published in: the Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, July 2000, Issue #204, pp.72-81.] A victim of the above problem -- B-12 deficiency caused by B-12 analogs -- would need the MMA (methylmalonic acid) blood test to detect a 'functional B-12 deficiency', although a cause-and-effect relationship would be difficult to prove in court, if permanent neurological injury did result. This type of injury will have a time-delay of 2 - 5 years, before the symptoms of a functional B-12 deficiency very slowly begin to become evident. Do algae eaters -ever- ask their doctor to do a MMA test ? How many doctors -ever- do a MMA test ? A B-12 deficiency is commonly misdiagnosed -- especially when the standard B-12 test comes back (false) 'normal'. If one does regularly consume Chlorella, blue green algae, or spirulina, it would seem to be prudent to also regularly use sublingual vitamin B-12. If one has neurological symptoms following several years of algae consumption, then one may need injectable vitamin B-12 (by a doctor's prescription) -- or risk serious, and progressively- irreversible neurological damage, damage which may already have begun. Good luck. Bill --------------------------------------------------------------------<e|- Need a credit card? Instant Approval and 0% intro APR with Aria! 1/7101/9/_/705339/_/964753610/ --------------------------------------------------------------------|e>- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2000 Report Share Posted July 29, 2000 Don wrote: >Bill, >I need more information from you. > >URL link number 1 (http://tldp.com/issue/167/algae.html) has to >do with a different type of algae than the type in chlorella. > >URL link number 2 (The Myths of Vegetarianism, by Byrnes, ND, >PhD, RNCP --Old link: (http://www.PowerHealth.net). The linked has >moved to new location here: > http://www.westonaprice.org/myths_truths_vegetarianism.htm >Deals specifically with the dangers of B12 deficiency as it applies >to a strict vegetarian diet, which of course is correct. Don, You'll notice I parenthetically referenced Byrnes, ND, PhD, as: (http://www.PowerHealth.net) -- which is his current (not 'Old') link. However, I referenced 'The Myths of Vegetarianism' specifically: " as published in: the Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, July 2000, Issue #204, pp.72-81. " 'The Myths of Vegetarianism' which is located at: http://www.westonaprice.org/myths_truths_vegetarianism.htm is an old edition of a recently updated work of the same title. In addition to the text, and references cited in only the new Townsend Letter version of 'The Myths of Vegetarianism', you may also need to locate other sources -- including biochemistry text books, and the full journal articles referenced in relevant MedLine abstracts (such as I did, approx. 5-6 years ago, at the UCLA Biomed Library) -- to arrive at the conclusion I summarized in my comment, as you quote below. > Neither of these links back up your comment: " Also, most algae > contains vitamin B-12 'analogs' that block the assimilation of > bioavailable B-12 in food (and supplements), thus causing a > masked B-12 deficiency that will not show up on the standard > B-12 blood tests -- thereby possibly leading to -permanent- > neurological damage, if not corrected in time. " > > I do not see B-12 'analogs' that block the assimilation of > bioavailable B-12 in food written anywhere. I would suggest you also search ( http://www.alltheweb.com ) for various key-word variations selected from the following : B12 B-12 cobalamin analogs analogues vegan vegetarian algae spirulina > In fact, Byrnes, ND, PhD states in the article, " In my > own practice, I recently saved two vegans from death from anemia > by convincing them to eat generous amounts of dairy products. > Both of these sickly gentlemen thought their B12 needs were > being met by tempeh and spirulina. They weren't. " What this says > to me is that their assimilation of bioavailable B-12 from food, > mainly the dairy products, was not blocked. Their potential for 'B-12 absorption' may well have been fully or partially blocked, (although they apparently weren't consuming any 'real' B-12 at all), -- until after they reduced, or halted, their consumption of tempeh and spirulina -- while they contemporaneously initiated the consumption of " generous amounts of dairy products. " If they did not reduce, or halt their consumption of tempeh and spirulina -- we aren't told --, then that would indicate the types or quantities of the B-12 analogs present in their spirulina, and stored in their livers, were not sufficient to totally block their assimilation and usage of all of the B-12 in the dairy products. Other people in a similar situation might not have been so lucky, depending upon individual, dietary, and genetic variables. >Please give me the reference source of the above statement. > >Don Regarding B-12 analogs, here's a quote, excerpted from: VITAMIN B12 IN THE VEGAN DIET by Mangels, Ph.D., R.D. Copyright 1995 by The Vegetarian Resource Group. http://envirolink.org/arrs/VRG/b12.html ....Victor Herbert, a leading authority on vitamin B12 states that the amount on the label cannot be trusted because the current method for measuring vitamin B12 in foods measures both active and inactive forms of vitamin B12. The inactive form (also called analogues) actually interferes with normal vitamin B12 absorption and metabolism [2,7]. These foods may contain more inactive than active vitamin B12. [2] Herbert V: Vitamin B12: Plant sources, requirements, and assay. Am J Clin Nutr 48: 852-858, 1988. [7] Kondo H, Binder MJ, Kohhouse JF et al: Presence and formation of cobalamin analogues in multivitamin-mineral pills. J Clin Invest 70: 889-898, 1982. --------------------- Another quote, excerpted from: From: taltar@... (Ted Altar) Newsgroups: rec.food.veg Date: 20 Aug 1994 07:31:18 -0700 Subject: B12 and Vegetarians (repost) SPIRULINA AND NORI Apparently, the problem with algae sources like spirulina or nori is not only that they are low in what is being NOW measured as B12 by newer methods (see Herbert, 1988), but what has been referred to as the noncobalamin analogues of B12 present in these sources might actually interfere with the absorption of true B12. In any case, " B12 " from spirulina or nori, if it is true B12, is simply NOT bioavailable (see Dagnelie, 1991). Dagnelie et al. (1991). Vitamin B12 from algae appears not to be bioavailable. AMER. J. OF CLINICAL NUTRITION, 53:695. --------------------- Another quote, excerpted from: The Vegetarian Society: VITAMIN B12 Information [from the Vegetarian Society (UK), March 1995] Spirulina, a algae available as a dietary supplement in tablet form, and nori, a seaweed, have both appeared to contain significant amounts of B12 after analysis. However, it is thought that this is due to the presence of compounds structurally similar to B12, known as B12 analogues. These cannot be utilised to satisfy dietary needs. Assay methods used to detect B12 are unable to differentiate between B12 and it's analogues. Analysis of possible B12 sources may give false positive results due to the presence of these analogues. Researchers have suggested that supposed B12 supplements such as spirulina may in fact increase the risk of B12 deficiency disease, as the B12 analogues can compete with B12 and inhibit metabolism. --------------------- Here's another reference to B-12 analogs: Kanazawa S, Herbert V; Total corrinoid, cobalamin (vitamin B12), and cobalamin analogue levels may be normal in serum despite cobalamin in liver depletion in patients with alcoholism, Lab Invest, 53:1, 1985 Jul, 108-10 --------------------- And, yes, I was not aware that Chlorella and blue-green algae are entirely different types of algae. Can you direct me to some published information defining the difference ? Nevertheless, I would be interested in seeing some actual (and independent) laboratory test results for both cobalamin and cobalamin analogs, for each of the commercially available types of algae intended for human consumption. Likewise, human blood tests showing to what extent each of these types of algae either do nothing for, or block, or improve (long-term) blood levels of non-analog vitamin B-12. Might some B-12 analogs only mildly block immediate B-12 function, and yet slowly and preferentially accumulate in the liver, causing serious, long-term (stealth) problems, at least in certain individuals ? I wonder if any comprehensive algae- cobalamin research has ever been done or published ? It would seem to be a strong 'selling point' for Chlorella, if it were rigorously proven to be a source of -- or at least not a source of blockage of (as certain other algaes apparently are) -- safe and bioavailable vitamin B-12 in the human diet. Best regards, Bill -------- Original message -------- >Bill Kingsbury wrote: > >> > In my opinion, Chlorella is a very good idea. From all of >> > my research, I can't find any negative scientific data >> > about this food....It appears to be a very healthy FOOD... >> >> Please see : >> (from the Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients) >> >> Why Blue Green Algae Makes Me Tired >> ------------------------------------ >> By M. McPartland, DO >> Director, Vermont Alternative Medicine >> >> URL: http://tldp.com/issue/167/algae.html >> >> Also, most algae contains vitamin B-12 'analogs' that block >> the assimilation of bioavailable B-12 in food (and supplements), >> thus causing a masked B-12 deficiency that will not show up on >> the standard B-12 blood tests -- thereby possibly leading to >> -permanent- neurological damage, if not corrected in time. >> >> Spirulina and blue-green algae, including Chlorella, have this >> B-12-analog problem. However, food product safety testing for >> B-12-analogs is probably not required by law, and too expensive to >> do regularly -- if it's done at all (except in clinical research). >> >> [Ref: The Myths of Vegetarianism, by Byrnes, ND, PhD, RNCP >> (http://www.PowerHealth.net) -- as published in: the Townsend >> Letter for Doctors and Patients, July 2000, Issue #204, pp.72-81.] >> >> A victim of the above problem -- B-12 deficiency caused by B-12 >> analogs -- would need the MMA (methylmalonic acid) blood test to >> detect a 'functional B-12 deficiency', although a cause-and-effect >> relationship would be difficult to prove in court, if permanent >> neurological injury did result. This type of injury will have a >> time-delay of 2 - 5 years, before the symptoms of a functional >> B-12 deficiency very slowly begin to become evident. >> >> Do algae eaters -ever- ask their doctor to do a MMA test ? >> How many doctors -ever- do a MMA test ? >> >> A B-12 deficiency is commonly misdiagnosed -- especially when >> the standard B-12 test comes back (false) 'normal'. >> >> If one does regularly consume Chlorella, blue green algae, or >> spirulina, it would seem to be prudent to also regularly use >> sublingual vitamin B-12. If one has neurological symptoms >> following several years of algae consumption, then one may need >> injectable vitamin B-12 (by a doctor's prescription) -- or risk >> serious, and progressively- irreversible neurological damage, >> damage which may already have begun. >> >> Good luck. >> >> Bill >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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