Re: Re: FDA-supplement industryand Schumer

[Guest guest]

Dear Bob and list,

I see the unfairness of your objection to being used to defend the rights of

the supplement industry. But in this overall battle for health freedom to

have access to and use the unconventional health products we want, it becomes

necessary to take some kijnd of political action to force the government

regulators to allow the product to be marketed and sold. It is an unfair

burden to have to place upon cancer patients, but unfortunately it is the

only way to gain access to the treatment cancer patients(and others) want.

This bill involves dietary supplements, some of which have a high mark-up.

Others such as vitamin C are relatively cheap due to competition from many

suppliers. The patent protected products are something else. Still compared

to the actual costs of chemotherapy and radiation they are cheap.

The supplement manufacturers are not quite in the same league as GE and Merck

etc.The stance you have taken falls into the tender waiting arms of the FDA

which has done everything in its considerable power to DENY desperate cancer

patients, such as the young Navarro, who fought to gain access to

Dr.Burzynski's antineoplaston therapy that had shown in FDA approved clinical

trials to be easily the most effective treatment for his brain

cancer(medullablastoma). There are billions of dollars at stake in this

battle and supplement manufacturers total REVENUE is insignificant compared

to the protected market for " prescription drugs " which is the bottom line for

the FDA and the drug companies that offer a lucrative " revolving door " to FDA

administrators when they leave the agency to redeem the benefits they " worked

for at the public expense " . At least some of the supplement

manufacturers(those not bought out by drug companies) will help to finance

the fight and use their distribution channel of stores to get the word out.

It will take an inconvenient fight, but the interests of consumers in THIS

battle for access is with the supplement manufacturers.

As to prices, if consumers try to search for suppliers looking for the

SOURCES of these constituent nutrents some money can be saved, but it

involves a lot of work.

The underlying principle is that most of these vitamins, minerals and herbs

are merely high technology extracts of usually highly processed food sources

that have often lost their bioavailability and nutritive value and if the

basic if the basic whole food source is sought out it will be BOTH cheaper

AND more effective. The downside is that it not as CONVENIENT. The downfall

of our food supply to begin with.

Hopefully we will eventually prevail, but it will be a difficult

battle and there is too much money at stake for the drug companies to let us

win easily.

Arnold

[Guest guest]

Dear Bob and list,

I see the unfairness of your objection to being used to defend the rights of

the supplement industry. But in this overall battle for health freedom to

have access to and use the unconventional health products we want, it becomes

necessary to take some kijnd of political action to force the government

regulators to allow the product to be marketed and sold. It is an unfair

burden to have to place upon cancer patients, but unfortunately it is the

only way to gain access to the treatment cancer patients(and others) want.

This bill involves dietary supplements, some of which have a high mark-up.

Others such as vitamin C are relatively cheap due to competition from many

suppliers. The patent protected products are something else. Still compared

to the actual costs of chemotherapy and radiation they are cheap.

The supplement manufacturers are not quite in the same league as GE and Merck

etc.The stance you have taken falls into the tender waiting arms of the FDA

which has done everything in its considerable power to DENY desperate cancer

patients, such as the young Navarro, who fought to gain access to

Dr.Burzynski's antineoplaston therapy that had shown in FDA approved clinical

trials to be easily the most effective treatment for his brain

cancer(medullablastoma). There are billions of dollars at stake in this

battle and supplement manufacturers total REVENUE is insignificant compared

to the protected market for " prescription drugs " which is the bottom line for

the FDA and the drug companies that offer a lucrative " revolving door " to FDA

administrators when they leave the agency to redeem the benefits they " worked

for at the public expense " . At least some of the supplement

manufacturers(those not bought out by drug companies) will help to finance

the fight and use their distribution channel of stores to get the word out.

It will take an inconvenient fight, but the interests of consumers in THIS

battle for access is with the supplement manufacturers.

As to prices, if consumers try to search for suppliers looking for the

SOURCES of these constituent nutrents some money can be saved, but it

involves a lot of work.

The underlying principle is that most of these vitamins, minerals and herbs

are merely high technology extracts of usually highly processed food sources

that have often lost their bioavailability and nutritive value and if the

basic if the basic whole food source is sought out it will be BOTH cheaper

AND more effective. The downside is that it not as CONVENIENT. The downfall

of our food supply to begin with.

Hopefully we will eventually prevail, but it will be a difficult

battle and there is too much money at stake for the drug companies to let us

win easily.

Arnold

[Guest guest]

Bob or as you mention your name in another mailinglist, in a certain

way you are right but how about all the cancerpatients who are getting chemo

etc. for scientifical reasons as the oncologists say but the true reason is

that their suffering serves only the farmaceutical industry?

Gr. kees Braam

webmaster www.kanker-actueel.nl

Re: FDA-supplement industryand Schumer

> Arnold, I suggest you start spending some of your own money

> and not try to rationalize reasons why cancer patients in the end of

> thier lives should become unpaid employees of the supplemnt industry.

> It is totally unfathomable to me that you would even say some of the

> things you are saying in your message below.

> The stand I am taking is that those who have reaped the

> millions selling these products should shame themselves into coughing

> up the money it will take to do what you want. Arnold , we are not

> your employees and if we were, we certainly would not be working for

> you for nothing. Why don't you get together with some of the

> supplement trade groups , put a pile of money together and get

> something going. Cancer patients were not born into this world to

> serve the commercial interests of people in business. You are

> attempting to get those who have the least amount of time and the

> least amount of money to involve themselves in a process in which

> those who will benefit financially and whom are not sick will be the

> primary beneficiiaries of the action you suggest.

> Those in the supplement business/industry have the money and

> the health to deal with this problem and I will not spend one minute

> of my time doing the work of those in this industry.

>

> best regards, BOB

>

>

>

>

> > Dear Bob and list,

> > I see the unfairness of your objection to being used to defend the

> rights of

> > the supplement industry. But in this overall battle for health

> freedom to

> > have access to and use the unconventional health products we want,

> it becomes

> > necessary to take some kijnd of political action to force the

> government

> > regulators to allow the product to be marketed and sold. It is an

> unfair

> > burden to have to place upon cancer patients, but unfortunately it

> is the

> > only way to gain access to the treatment cancer patients(and

> others) want.

> > This bill involves dietary supplements, some of which have a high

> mark-up.

> > Others such as vitamin C are relatively cheap due to competition

> from many

> > suppliers. The patent protected products are something else. Still

> compared

> > to the actual costs of chemotherapy and radiation they are cheap.

> > The supplement manufacturers are not quite in the same league as GE

> and Merck

> > etc.The stance you have taken falls into the tender waiting arms of

> the FDA

> > which has done everything in its considerable power to DENY

> desperate cancer

> > patients, such as the young Navarro, who fought to gain

> access to

> > Dr.Burzynski's antineoplaston therapy that had shown in FDA

> approved clinical

> > trials to be easily the most effective treatment for his brain

> > cancer(medullablastoma). There are billions of dollars at stake in

> this

> > battle and supplement manufacturers total REVENUE is insignificant

> compared

> > to the protected market for " prescription drugs " which is the

> bottom line for

> > the FDA and the drug companies that offer a lucrative " revolving

> door " to FDA

> > administrators when they leave the agency to redeem the benefits

> they " worked

> > for at the public expense " . At least some of the supplement

> > manufacturers(those not bought out by drug companies) will help to

> finance

> > the fight and use their distribution channel of stores to get the

> word out.

> > It will take an inconvenient fight, but the interests of consumers

> in THIS

> > battle for access is with the supplement manufacturers.

> > As to prices, if consumers try to search for suppliers looking for

> the

> > SOURCES of these constituent nutrents some money can be saved, but

> it

> > involves a lot of work.

> > The underlying principle is that most of these vitamins, minerals

> and herbs

> > are merely high technology extracts of usually highly processed

> food sources

> > that have often lost their bioavailability and nutritive value and

> if the

> > basic if the basic whole food source is sought out it will be BOTH

> cheaper

> > AND more effective. The downside is that it not as CONVENIENT. The

> downfall

> > of our food supply to begin with.

> > Hopefully we will eventually prevail, but it will be a

> difficult

> > battle and there is too much money at stake for the drug companies

> to let us

> > win easily.

> > Arnold

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Bob or as you mention your name in another mailinglist, in a certain

way you are right but how about all the cancerpatients who are getting chemo

etc. for scientifical reasons as the oncologists say but the true reason is

that their suffering serves only the farmaceutical industry?

Gr. kees Braam

webmaster www.kanker-actueel.nl

Re: FDA-supplement industryand Schumer

> Arnold, I suggest you start spending some of your own money

> and not try to rationalize reasons why cancer patients in the end of

> thier lives should become unpaid employees of the supplemnt industry.

> It is totally unfathomable to me that you would even say some of the

> things you are saying in your message below.

> The stand I am taking is that those who have reaped the

> millions selling these products should shame themselves into coughing

> up the money it will take to do what you want. Arnold , we are not

> your employees and if we were, we certainly would not be working for

> you for nothing. Why don't you get together with some of the

> supplement trade groups , put a pile of money together and get

> something going. Cancer patients were not born into this world to

> serve the commercial interests of people in business. You are

> attempting to get those who have the least amount of time and the

> least amount of money to involve themselves in a process in which

> those who will benefit financially and whom are not sick will be the

> primary beneficiiaries of the action you suggest.

> Those in the supplement business/industry have the money and

> the health to deal with this problem and I will not spend one minute

> of my time doing the work of those in this industry.

>

> best regards, BOB

>

>

>

>

> > Dear Bob and list,

> > I see the unfairness of your objection to being used to defend the

> rights of

> > the supplement industry. But in this overall battle for health

> freedom to

> > have access to and use the unconventional health products we want,

> it becomes

> > necessary to take some kijnd of political action to force the

> government

> > regulators to allow the product to be marketed and sold. It is an

> unfair

> > burden to have to place upon cancer patients, but unfortunately it

> is the

> > only way to gain access to the treatment cancer patients(and

> others) want.

> > This bill involves dietary supplements, some of which have a high

> mark-up.

> > Others such as vitamin C are relatively cheap due to competition

> from many

> > suppliers. The patent protected products are something else. Still

> compared

> > to the actual costs of chemotherapy and radiation they are cheap.

> > The supplement manufacturers are not quite in the same league as GE

> and Merck

> > etc.The stance you have taken falls into the tender waiting arms of

> the FDA

> > which has done everything in its considerable power to DENY

> desperate cancer

> > patients, such as the young Navarro, who fought to gain

> access to

> > Dr.Burzynski's antineoplaston therapy that had shown in FDA

> approved clinical

> > trials to be easily the most effective treatment for his brain

> > cancer(medullablastoma). There are billions of dollars at stake in

> this

> > battle and supplement manufacturers total REVENUE is insignificant

> compared

> > to the protected market for " prescription drugs " which is the

> bottom line for

> > the FDA and the drug companies that offer a lucrative " revolving

> door " to FDA

> > administrators when they leave the agency to redeem the benefits

> they " worked

> > for at the public expense " . At least some of the supplement

> > manufacturers(those not bought out by drug companies) will help to

> finance

> > the fight and use their distribution channel of stores to get the

> word out.

> > It will take an inconvenient fight, but the interests of consumers

> in THIS

> > battle for access is with the supplement manufacturers.

> > As to prices, if consumers try to search for suppliers looking for

> the

> > SOURCES of these constituent nutrents some money can be saved, but

> it

> > involves a lot of work.

> > The underlying principle is that most of these vitamins, minerals

> and herbs

> > are merely high technology extracts of usually highly processed

> food sources

> > that have often lost their bioavailability and nutritive value and

> if the

> > basic if the basic whole food source is sought out it will be BOTH

> cheaper

> > AND more effective. The downside is that it not as CONVENIENT. The

> downfall

> > of our food supply to begin with.

> > Hopefully we will eventually prevail, but it will be a

> difficult

> > battle and there is too much money at stake for the drug companies

> to let us

> > win easily.

> > Arnold

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

OK Bob/ I understand what you mean. I agree I must say. thanks for the

answer.

Kees Braam

Re: FDA-supplement industryand Schumer

> Chemo therapy as they like to call it amounts to nothing more

> than injecting deadly poisonous drugs into a persons body which in

> many cases will almost insure an early death. In recent years some

> very novel modes of chemo or biotech modes have been introuduced and

> even one day perhaps 100 years from now they will actually have

> something that works. Unfortunately , I don't have 100 years, that is

> why I am doing botanical medicine and looking into things like CLT

> and various other modalities.

> Unfortunately for the sick, those selling supplements and

> chemo for the most part are not sick themselves and are simply doing

> what they are doing to make as much money as they can. Oncologists in

> the U.S. are now the highest paid physicians, that ought to tell you

> something. They have the luxury of time and so long as they stay

> healthy themselves, they are not much in a hurry to do anything

> except more of the same.

> I want ''quality'' supplements, vitamins, minerals, herbals

> and homeopathic treatments at reasonable prices. What good is moving

> to these products going to do us, the consumers of them, if these

> people begin charging for them like the owners of patent medicine do?

> Braam, if Merck, Astrazenaca, Abbott labs or TAP pharmeceuticals

> began sending out to the public notices begging them to stop what

> they are doing and start taking time out of their lives and write

> letters and fight to keep one of their drugs on the market we would

> all laugh because these are billion dollar corporations and if they

> are going to pay all their other employees they are sure as hell

> going to pay me too if they want something from me. I don't work for

> free Braam and I suggest no one else do either. It is an insult to

> our intelligence for corporations worth hundreds of millions of

> dollars who have vast personal wealth and are healthy to ask the sick

> to do their work for them for free. But, that is how businessmen have

> always operated, it's up to the public to wise up and realize whose

> responsibility it is to do this and who has the money to do it.

> Chemotherapy in my opinion Braam is almost certain death, but

> we all know that already.

>

> Best regards (bob)

>

>

>

> > > > Dear Bob and list,

> > > > I see the unfairness of your objection to being used to defend

> the

> > > rights of

> > > > the supplement industry. But in this overall battle for health

> > > freedom to

> > > > have access to and use the unconventional health products we

> want,

> > > it becomes

> > > > necessary to take some kijnd of political action to force the

> > > government

> > > > regulators to allow the product to be marketed and sold. It is

> an

> > > unfair

> > > > burden to have to place upon cancer patients, but unfortunately

> it

> > > is the

> > > > only way to gain access to the treatment cancer patients(and

> > > others) want.

> > > > This bill involves dietary supplements, some of which have a

> high

> > > mark-up.

> > > > Others such as vitamin C are relatively cheap due to competition

> > > from many

> > > > suppliers. The patent protected products are something else.

> Still

> > > compared

> > > > to the actual costs of chemotherapy and radiation they are

> cheap.

> > > > The supplement manufacturers are not quite in the same league

> as GE

> > > and Merck

> > > > etc.The stance you have taken falls into the tender waiting

> arms of

> > > the FDA

> > > > which has done everything in its considerable power to DENY

> > > desperate cancer

> > > > patients, such as the young Navarro, who fought to gain

> > > access to

> > > > Dr.Burzynski's antineoplaston therapy that had shown in FDA

> > > approved clinical

> > > > trials to be easily the most effective treatment for his brain

> > > > cancer(medullablastoma). There are billions of dollars at stake

> in

> > > this

> > > > battle and supplement manufacturers total REVENUE is

> insignificant

> > > compared

> > > > to the protected market for " prescription drugs " which is the

> > > bottom line for

> > > > the FDA and the drug companies that offer a lucrative " revolving

> > > door " to FDA

> > > > administrators when they leave the agency to redeem the benefits

> > > they " worked

> > > > for at the public expense " . At least some of the supplement

> > > > manufacturers(those not bought out by drug companies) will help

> to

> > > finance

> > > > the fight and use their distribution channel of stores to get

> the

> > > word out.

> > > > It will take an inconvenient fight, but the interests of

> consumers

> > > in THIS

> > > > battle for access is with the supplement manufacturers.

> > > > As to prices, if consumers try to search for suppliers looking

> for

> > > the

> > > > SOURCES of these constituent nutrents some money can be saved,

> but

> > > it

> > > > involves a lot of work.

> > > > The underlying principle is that most of these vitamins,

> minerals

> > > and herbs

> > > > are merely high technology extracts of usually highly processed

> > > food sources

> > > > that have often lost their bioavailability and nutritive value

> and

> > > if the

> > > > basic if the basic whole food source is sought out it will be

> BOTH

> > > cheaper

> > > > AND more effective. The downside is that it not as CONVENIENT.

> The

> > > downfall

> > > > of our food supply to begin with.

> > > > Hopefully we will eventually prevail, but it will be a

> > > difficult

> > > > battle and there is too much money at stake for the drug

> companies

> > > to let us

> > > > win easily.

> > > > Arnold

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

OK Bob/ I understand what you mean. I agree I must say. thanks for the

answer.

Kees Braam

Re: FDA-supplement industryand Schumer

> Chemo therapy as they like to call it amounts to nothing more

> than injecting deadly poisonous drugs into a persons body which in

> many cases will almost insure an early death. In recent years some

> very novel modes of chemo or biotech modes have been introuduced and

> even one day perhaps 100 years from now they will actually have

> something that works. Unfortunately , I don't have 100 years, that is

> why I am doing botanical medicine and looking into things like CLT

> and various other modalities.

> Unfortunately for the sick, those selling supplements and

> chemo for the most part are not sick themselves and are simply doing

> what they are doing to make as much money as they can. Oncologists in

> the U.S. are now the highest paid physicians, that ought to tell you

> something. They have the luxury of time and so long as they stay

> healthy themselves, they are not much in a hurry to do anything

> except more of the same.

> I want ''quality'' supplements, vitamins, minerals, herbals

> and homeopathic treatments at reasonable prices. What good is moving

> to these products going to do us, the consumers of them, if these

> people begin charging for them like the owners of patent medicine do?

> Braam, if Merck, Astrazenaca, Abbott labs or TAP pharmeceuticals

> began sending out to the public notices begging them to stop what

> they are doing and start taking time out of their lives and write

> letters and fight to keep one of their drugs on the market we would

> all laugh because these are billion dollar corporations and if they

> are going to pay all their other employees they are sure as hell

> going to pay me too if they want something from me. I don't work for

> free Braam and I suggest no one else do either. It is an insult to

> our intelligence for corporations worth hundreds of millions of

> dollars who have vast personal wealth and are healthy to ask the sick

> to do their work for them for free. But, that is how businessmen have

> always operated, it's up to the public to wise up and realize whose

> responsibility it is to do this and who has the money to do it.

> Chemotherapy in my opinion Braam is almost certain death, but

> we all know that already.

>

> Best regards (bob)

>

>

>

> > > > Dear Bob and list,

> > > > I see the unfairness of your objection to being used to defend

> the

> > > rights of

> > > > the supplement industry. But in this overall battle for health

> > > freedom to

> > > > have access to and use the unconventional health products we

> want,

> > > it becomes

> > > > necessary to take some kijnd of political action to force the

> > > government

> > > > regulators to allow the product to be marketed and sold. It is

> an

> > > unfair

> > > > burden to have to place upon cancer patients, but unfortunately

> it

> > > is the

> > > > only way to gain access to the treatment cancer patients(and

> > > others) want.

> > > > This bill involves dietary supplements, some of which have a

> high

> > > mark-up.

> > > > Others such as vitamin C are relatively cheap due to competition

> > > from many

> > > > suppliers. The patent protected products are something else.

> Still

> > > compared

> > > > to the actual costs of chemotherapy and radiation they are

> cheap.

> > > > The supplement manufacturers are not quite in the same league

> as GE

> > > and Merck

> > > > etc.The stance you have taken falls into the tender waiting

> arms of

> > > the FDA

> > > > which has done everything in its considerable power to DENY

> > > desperate cancer

> > > > patients, such as the young Navarro, who fought to gain

> > > access to

> > > > Dr.Burzynski's antineoplaston therapy that had shown in FDA

> > > approved clinical

> > > > trials to be easily the most effective treatment for his brain

> > > > cancer(medullablastoma). There are billions of dollars at stake

> in

> > > this

> > > > battle and supplement manufacturers total REVENUE is

> insignificant

> > > compared

> > > > to the protected market for " prescription drugs " which is the

> > > bottom line for

> > > > the FDA and the drug companies that offer a lucrative " revolving

> > > door " to FDA

> > > > administrators when they leave the agency to redeem the benefits

> > > they " worked

> > > > for at the public expense " . At least some of the supplement

> > > > manufacturers(those not bought out by drug companies) will help

> to

> > > finance

> > > > the fight and use their distribution channel of stores to get

> the

> > > word out.

> > > > It will take an inconvenient fight, but the interests of

> consumers

> > > in THIS

> > > > battle for access is with the supplement manufacturers.

> > > > As to prices, if consumers try to search for suppliers looking

> for

> > > the

> > > > SOURCES of these constituent nutrents some money can be saved,

> but

> > > it

> > > > involves a lot of work.

> > > > The underlying principle is that most of these vitamins,

> minerals

> > > and herbs

> > > > are merely high technology extracts of usually highly processed

> > > food sources

> > > > that have often lost their bioavailability and nutritive value

> and

> > > if the

> > > > basic if the basic whole food source is sought out it will be

> BOTH

> > > cheaper

> > > > AND more effective. The downside is that it not as CONVENIENT.

> The

> > > downfall

> > > > of our food supply to begin with.

> > > > Hopefully we will eventually prevail, but it will be a

> > > difficult

> > > > battle and there is too much money at stake for the drug

> companies

> > > to let us

> > > > win easily.

> > > > Arnold

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

OK no problem I don't mind what name you use, I was just wondering why you

use different names in different groups but please this isn't an issue to

discuss.

Gr. kees

Re: FDA-supplement industryand Schumer

> Dear Braam, and Bob are one and the same. It's like

> and Bill or ph and Joe, and Jim, Margaret and Peg,

> and Kate. Bob is the more familiar, the more formal.

> I'm sure you have something similar in Dutch. It is not an alias and

> does not have anything to do with hiding my identity.

>

> I did not mention Pharmaceutiacal drugs because we were not

> speaking about drugs. I think that there is more usefulness in most

> botanical medicine than there are in the synthetic poisons our

> doctors like to call medicine. It just so happens that we were not

> speaking about pharmeceutical drugs , we were speaking about

> supplements. It took a long time to make people realize just how

> toxic and dangerous pharmaceutical drugs were and i'm happy that

> people now know this. However, that does not mean that vitamins,

> minerals, herbs and other supplements do not have their problems.

> First of all , here in the U.S. at the moment there are no

> regulations concerning the content of what is in those pills and

> potions we are buying on the internet and health food stores. That

> hopefully is going to change very shortly and a lot of people are

> going to go out of business because it's already been shown that a

> large precentage of products being sold to us do not contain what the

> label on the bottle says is in those little pills. Braam, this is a

> very big problem and let no one tell you anything different.

> That is another reason why I am upset that the

> poor ''patients'' are being asked to shoulder the burden to fight the

> American goverment when the companies selling the products will

> benefit in the billions of dollars.When you make the money, you pay

> the freight, that is the way it works. Right now many of these

> companies are selling pills that do not even contain what they say is

> in them and they want people like me to go out and fight for their

> right to sell them to me!

>

> We first need a regulation that strictly holds supplement and

> manufacturers of herbal products to a standard similar to that

> already in place that controls the content of what we call here in

> the U.S. over the counter drugs with strict penalties for violators.

> That protects us, the consumers of these products. I am more

> concerned with the quality of what I am purchasing than the companies

> right to sell it to me because as long as there is a demand, the

> products will be available.

>

> Back in the early 1990's we , the consumers , won the right to have

> access to vitamins, minerals and supplements without regulation from

> the Food and Drug Administration. As a result of that landmark

> legislation hundreds, perhaps thousands of companies set up shop all

> over the world and began selling Americans vitamins, minerals and

> herbs. I think this is wonderful and in the intervening years since

> 1994 they have made billions of dollars and many of these companies

> were not selling the product that was on the label of the bottle and

> have gotten away with it. Now that these companies have been making

> all of this money they need to fight their own battles to stay in

> business . The battle for the consumer is now to ensure that what we

> are being sold is of the quality and standard that we demand for our

> money. At the moment we have no such protection.

>

>

> Braam , over there in Europe, the big drug makers are making

> vitamins , minerals and herbal mixtures in accordance with strict

> government regulation. Over here they can sell you anything they want

> because there are no regulations. Part of the problem Braam is that

> what we are discussing here is an American problem and most Europeans

> don't understand what is going on here. Things here are not as they

> are in Europe. We do not have socialized medicine, our insurance does

> not pay for non-allopathic treatments for the most part and there are

> numerous other differences of which Europeans are simply unaware. We

> actually do have an almost purely capitalist system so when i'm

> paying for my own health care and supplements, I want to get what I

> am paying for as it all comes out of my pocket.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > Dear Bob and list,

> > > > I see the unfairness of your objection to being used to defend

> the

> > > rights of

> > > > the supplement industry. But in this overall battle for health

> > > freedom to

> > > > have access to and use the unconventional health products we

> want,

> > > it becomes

> > > > necessary to take some kijnd of political action to force the

> > > government

> > > > regulators to allow the product to be marketed and sold. It is

> an

> > > unfair

> > > > burden to have to place upon cancer patients, but unfortunately

> it

> > > is the

> > > > only way to gain access to the treatment cancer patients(and

> > > others) want.

> > > > This bill involves dietary supplements, some of which have a

> high

> > > mark-up.

> > > > Others such as vitamin C are relatively cheap due to competition

> > > from many

> > > > suppliers. The patent protected products are something else.

> Still

> > > compared

> > > > to the actual costs of chemotherapy and radiation they are

> cheap.

> > > > The supplement manufacturers are not quite in the same league

> as GE

> > > and Merck

> > > > etc.The stance you have taken falls into the tender waiting

> arms of

> > > the FDA

> > > > which has done everything in its considerable power to DENY

> > > desperate cancer

> > > > patients, such as the young Navarro, who fought to gain

> > > access to

> > > > Dr.Burzynski's antineoplaston therapy that had shown in FDA

> > > approved clinical

> > > > trials to be easily the most effective treatment for his brain

> > > > cancer(medullablastoma). There are billions of dollars at stake

> in

> > > this

> > > > battle and supplement manufacturers total REVENUE is

> insignificant

> > > compared

> > > > to the protected market for " prescription drugs " which is the

> > > bottom line for

> > > > the FDA and the drug companies that offer a lucrative " revolving

> > > door " to FDA

> > > > administrators when they leave the agency to redeem the benefits

> > > they " worked

> > > > for at the public expense " . At least some of the supplement

> > > > manufacturers(those not bought out by drug companies) will help

> to

> > > finance

> > > > the fight and use their distribution channel of stores to get

> the

> > > word out.

> > > > It will take an inconvenient fight, but the interests of

> consumers

> > > in THIS

> > > > battle for access is with the supplement manufacturers.

> > > > As to prices, if consumers try to search for suppliers looking

> for

> > > the

> > > > SOURCES of these constituent nutrents some money can be saved,

> but

> > > it

> > > > involves a lot of work.

> > > > The underlying principle is that most of these vitamins,

> minerals

> > > and herbs

> > > > are merely high technology extracts of usually highly processed

> > > food sources

> > > > that have often lost their bioavailability and nutritive value

> and

> > > if the

> > > > basic if the basic whole food source is sought out it will be

> BOTH

> > > cheaper

> > > > AND more effective. The downside is that it not as CONVENIENT.

> The

> > > downfall

> > > > of our food supply to begin with.

> > > > Hopefully we will eventually prevail, but it will be a

> > > difficult

> > > > battle and there is too much money at stake for the drug

> companies

> > > to let us

> > > > win easily.

> > > > Arnold

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

OK no problem I don't mind what name you use, I was just wondering why you

use different names in different groups but please this isn't an issue to

discuss.

Gr. kees

Re: FDA-supplement industryand Schumer

> Dear Braam, and Bob are one and the same. It's like

> and Bill or ph and Joe, and Jim, Margaret and Peg,

> and Kate. Bob is the more familiar, the more formal.

> I'm sure you have something similar in Dutch. It is not an alias and

> does not have anything to do with hiding my identity.

>

> I did not mention Pharmaceutiacal drugs because we were not

> speaking about drugs. I think that there is more usefulness in most

> botanical medicine than there are in the synthetic poisons our

> doctors like to call medicine. It just so happens that we were not

> speaking about pharmeceutical drugs , we were speaking about

> supplements. It took a long time to make people realize just how

> toxic and dangerous pharmaceutical drugs were and i'm happy that

> people now know this. However, that does not mean that vitamins,

> minerals, herbs and other supplements do not have their problems.

> First of all , here in the U.S. at the moment there are no

> regulations concerning the content of what is in those pills and

> potions we are buying on the internet and health food stores. That

> hopefully is going to change very shortly and a lot of people are

> going to go out of business because it's already been shown that a

> large precentage of products being sold to us do not contain what the

> label on the bottle says is in those little pills. Braam, this is a

> very big problem and let no one tell you anything different.

> That is another reason why I am upset that the

> poor ''patients'' are being asked to shoulder the burden to fight the

> American goverment when the companies selling the products will

> benefit in the billions of dollars.When you make the money, you pay

> the freight, that is the way it works. Right now many of these

> companies are selling pills that do not even contain what they say is

> in them and they want people like me to go out and fight for their

> right to sell them to me!

>

> We first need a regulation that strictly holds supplement and

> manufacturers of herbal products to a standard similar to that

> already in place that controls the content of what we call here in

> the U.S. over the counter drugs with strict penalties for violators.

> That protects us, the consumers of these products. I am more

> concerned with the quality of what I am purchasing than the companies

> right to sell it to me because as long as there is a demand, the

> products will be available.

>

> Back in the early 1990's we , the consumers , won the right to have

> access to vitamins, minerals and supplements without regulation from

> the Food and Drug Administration. As a result of that landmark

> legislation hundreds, perhaps thousands of companies set up shop all

> over the world and began selling Americans vitamins, minerals and

> herbs. I think this is wonderful and in the intervening years since

> 1994 they have made billions of dollars and many of these companies

> were not selling the product that was on the label of the bottle and

> have gotten away with it. Now that these companies have been making

> all of this money they need to fight their own battles to stay in

> business . The battle for the consumer is now to ensure that what we

> are being sold is of the quality and standard that we demand for our

> money. At the moment we have no such protection.

>

>

> Braam , over there in Europe, the big drug makers are making

> vitamins , minerals and herbal mixtures in accordance with strict

> government regulation. Over here they can sell you anything they want

> because there are no regulations. Part of the problem Braam is that

> what we are discussing here is an American problem and most Europeans

> don't understand what is going on here. Things here are not as they

> are in Europe. We do not have socialized medicine, our insurance does

> not pay for non-allopathic treatments for the most part and there are

> numerous other differences of which Europeans are simply unaware. We

> actually do have an almost purely capitalist system so when i'm

> paying for my own health care and supplements, I want to get what I

> am paying for as it all comes out of my pocket.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > Dear Bob and list,

> > > > I see the unfairness of your objection to being used to defend

> the

> > > rights of

> > > > the supplement industry. But in this overall battle for health

> > > freedom to

> > > > have access to and use the unconventional health products we

> want,

> > > it becomes

> > > > necessary to take some kijnd of political action to force the

> > > government

> > > > regulators to allow the product to be marketed and sold. It is

> an

> > > unfair

> > > > burden to have to place upon cancer patients, but unfortunately

> it

> > > is the

> > > > only way to gain access to the treatment cancer patients(and

> > > others) want.

> > > > This bill involves dietary supplements, some of which have a

> high

> > > mark-up.

> > > > Others such as vitamin C are relatively cheap due to competition

> > > from many

> > > > suppliers. The patent protected products are something else.

> Still

> > > compared

> > > > to the actual costs of chemotherapy and radiation they are

> cheap.

> > > > The supplement manufacturers are not quite in the same league

> as GE

> > > and Merck

> > > > etc.The stance you have taken falls into the tender waiting

> arms of

> > > the FDA

> > > > which has done everything in its considerable power to DENY

> > > desperate cancer

> > > > patients, such as the young Navarro, who fought to gain

> > > access to

> > > > Dr.Burzynski's antineoplaston therapy that had shown in FDA

> > > approved clinical

> > > > trials to be easily the most effective treatment for his brain

> > > > cancer(medullablastoma). There are billions of dollars at stake

> in

> > > this

> > > > battle and supplement manufacturers total REVENUE is

> insignificant

> > > compared

> > > > to the protected market for " prescription drugs " which is the

> > > bottom line for

> > > > the FDA and the drug companies that offer a lucrative " revolving

> > > door " to FDA

> > > > administrators when they leave the agency to redeem the benefits

> > > they " worked

> > > > for at the public expense " . At least some of the supplement

> > > > manufacturers(those not bought out by drug companies) will help

> to

> > > finance

> > > > the fight and use their distribution channel of stores to get

> the

> > > word out.

> > > > It will take an inconvenient fight, but the interests of

> consumers

> > > in THIS

> > > > battle for access is with the supplement manufacturers.

> > > > As to prices, if consumers try to search for suppliers looking

> for

> > > the

> > > > SOURCES of these constituent nutrents some money can be saved,

> but

> > > it

> > > > involves a lot of work.

> > > > The underlying principle is that most of these vitamins,

> minerals

> > > and herbs

> > > > are merely high technology extracts of usually highly processed

> > > food sources

> > > > that have often lost their bioavailability and nutritive value

> and

> > > if the

> > > > basic if the basic whole food source is sought out it will be

> BOTH

> > > cheaper

> > > > AND more effective. The downside is that it not as CONVENIENT.

> The

> > > downfall

> > > > of our food supply to begin with.

> > > > Hopefully we will eventually prevail, but it will be a

> > > difficult

> > > > battle and there is too much money at stake for the drug

> companies

> > > to let us

> > > > win easily.

> > > > Arnold

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Kees Braam - Are you the same person I recently read about that had

supposedly incurable mouth and tongue cancer (told to go home and die)

but instead underwent both chemotherapy, radiation and alternative

cancer treatment and ended up surviving, if not completely beating the

cancer?

Peggy

" C.W. Braam " wrote:

> OK Bob/ I understand what you mean. I agree I must say. thanks

> for the

> answer.

>

> Kees Braam

>

[Guest guest]

Kees Braam - Are you the same person I recently read about that had

supposedly incurable mouth and tongue cancer (told to go home and die)

but instead underwent both chemotherapy, radiation and alternative

cancer treatment and ended up surviving, if not completely beating the

cancer?

Peggy

" C.W. Braam " wrote:

> OK Bob/ I understand what you mean. I agree I must say. thanks

> for the

> answer.

>

> Kees Braam

>

[Guest guest]

Bob,

You seem to be lumping the manufacturers of high priced chemotherapy drugs

that enjoy huge markups with manufacturers of vitamins in the public domain

such as Vitamin C, Vitamin A. Vitamin B Complex etc. Is this realistic? While

most vitamin manufacturers are making some money, It pales in comparison. No

FDA commissioner would ever expect to go to work for even the biggest vitamin

manufacturer and cash in on his experience at FDA

The small amount of money we get from the health food and vitamin

manufacturers is

the basis to build an alternative health movement that brings some of the

needs of paient-consumers to the decision making table.

arnold

[Guest guest]

Bob,

You seem to be lumping the manufacturers of high priced chemotherapy drugs

that enjoy huge markups with manufacturers of vitamins in the public domain

such as Vitamin C, Vitamin A. Vitamin B Complex etc. Is this realistic? While

most vitamin manufacturers are making some money, It pales in comparison. No

FDA commissioner would ever expect to go to work for even the biggest vitamin

manufacturer and cash in on his experience at FDA

The small amount of money we get from the health food and vitamin

manufacturers is

the basis to build an alternative health movement that brings some of the

needs of paient-consumers to the decision making table.

arnold