Re: taking sides & escalating vs. de-escalatingconflicts

[Guest guest]

I don't consider myself taking sides with either Moonbeam or Kees, but I do know

it takes two to tangle, and those two were tangling. Either had the opportunity

to back off but neither did. We are to respect each other's opinion. Some

doctors are earnestly practicing integrative medicine - that is, alternative and

some contemporary medicine. If you notice, many D.O.'s are now specializing in

all fields of medicine, including oncology. I say this will cause a change in

contemporary medicine. I agree my opinion of many or most M.D.'s is negative

but I was quite surprised when my primary physician and endocrinologist agreed

with me when I refused to take a biopsy of new growths in my thyroid. I asked

the endocrinologist what would he do if he were me, and he said he would wait

six months and come in for other tests, and that is the way we left it. We who

have been researching alternative medicines for awhile realize that different

protocols work for different people and it is necessary to learn as much as we

can. How many times have Moonbeam added to his protocol? I remember about ten

months ago there was a Moonbeams as well as Moonbeam on the list. Then the

Moonbeams disappeared. Mildred

Re: taking sides & escalating vs. de-escalatingconflicts

Leonard, thanks alot for your note. you are right in what you say. YES i was

judgemental. i don't feel that i normally act that way, but i got frustrated

(and often have with this situation). i felt so badly for the way Kees

attacks Moonbeam and sometimes others. i've been in collectives of one kind

or the other for more than 20 years. oftentimes the collective membership

allows the power or the original intent of the group to become thwarted by

one member with his or her own agenda. this list is about sharing our views

and experiences on alternative methods for curing cancer. Kees often

supports medical doctors, who almost killed me and many others i know. if it

had not been for alternatives, i would not be here today - and i'm healthier

than i was even before my cancer. it seems that there might perhaps be a

better forum for Kees to share his views with others who are perhaps more

into allopathic medicine, or at the very least to see that this forum is

about the free expression of ideas on alternative medicine, and certainly

not in any way a place to criticize or question someone's authority or

opinions. and yes, you're right again- many times i have hoped also that the

arguments would subside, but in my opinion, Kees was the one who always

brought things back up. allowing Kees to act the way he does on this list

has taken us away from our original intent in joining this list.

i wish you all the best,

-dianna

www.organicaromatics.com/cancer_cured

on 12/26/01 10:57 PM, leonardleonard1@... at leonardleonard1@...

wrote:

> Dear Dianna and others,

> I have much appreciated your posts and appreciate much of what you wrote in

> your last post, but I was troubled, or should I say emotionally " triggered " ,

> by a few things you wrote.

>

> In a message dated 12/27/2001 12:44:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> dianna@... writes:

>> Kees has helped me to see that cancer patients often have pent up anger and

>> emotional problems which forces them- sadly- to attack others whom they

>> perceive as posing threats.

> He has helped me see that too. Is he the only person on this list who

> " helped " you see that? Putting aside all the other people on the list who've

> done that, have you not done that yourself, to some degree, in what you wrote

> above? Am I not doing that same thing to you to some degree right now in this

> post?

>

>> this list is supposed to be a forum for cancer patients and their families

>> to help others without judgement.

> I agree. Did your last post contain judgement?

>

>> it's too bad that one rotten apple spoils the bunch.

> I don't believe you meant this comment to be hurtful, but I ask you to think

> about how you'd feel if someone referred to you as a " rotten apple " on this

> list (even if, hypothetically, you had behaved very badly and destructively

> [which I don't recall you ever doing]). I find that to the extent that

> someone has " pent up anger and emotional problems which [inclines/predisposes

> them] sadly- to attack others whom they perceive as posing threats " , it is

> essential to try to avoid saying/doing things to them that will cause them to

> feel attacked or threatened. (I have often failed to follow this advice, as

> did Kees and Moonbeam.)

>

> It would have been terrible if, hypothetically, 1 " rotten apple " had spoiled

> the bunch. However, there have never been any " rotten apples " (in any sense

> of the term) on this list. There are only human beings, some of which have

> behaved poorly, even very badly/destructively at times, myself included. I

> find that the vast majority of interpersonal problems on this listserv (and

> other listservs) are caused by the combination and interaction of 2 or more

> persons' MUTUAL continual insults and retaliation ( " attack[ing] others whom

> they perceive as posing threats, " as you articulated so well). This was

> clearly the case with Kees and Moonbeam. As with most conflicts, EITHER of

> them could have stopped escalating the whole conflict by simply stopping

> their retaliation/counterattacks (I believe this is the case in most

> interpersonal conflicts), but neither of them made a sufficient effort to do

> this (though each of them made some efforts of some sorts). Accordingly, I

> consider them each to be responsible for the attacks and other negative

> consequences they continued to receive.

>

> I'm particularly saddened by the situation, because I believe both of them

> are very goodhearted people who have helped many and who are dedicated to

> bringing further help to people cancer and other health problems.

>

> I apologize if I've been overly harsh or let out my pent up anger over the

> whole situation out on you. I tend to get emotionally triggered when I see

> someone (in this case several people) attack or harshly criticize 1 person in

> a conflict when in fact both people are substantially responsible. I'm not

> suggesting that Kees and Moonbeam are equally (or unequally) responsible or

> that they each contributed to the conflict equally (or unequally); I simply

> feel very strongly against trying to make 1 person out as the good guy and

> the other out as the bad guy, especially being that in this case that's the

> farthest thing from the truth.

>

> Aside from these few remarks in your last post, I have much appreciated your

> contributions to this group, and I hope you join back soon.

>

> Sincerely,

> Leonard

>

> P.S. I'll probably be away Dec. 28 to Jan 3 and may take some time to catch

> up. So if I fail to reply to your or anyone else's responses for a while,

> please don't take it personally. I welcome everyone's responses.

>

>

> Get HUGE info at http://www.cures for cancer.ws, and post your own links there.

> Unsubscribe by sending email to cures for cancer-unsubscribeegroups or by

> visiting http://www.bobhurt.com/subunsub.mv

>

>