RE: NOW - Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

Here are some timely quotes to share:

" Forty years ago President F. Kennedy promised to have a man

on the moon by the end of the 1960s. Well, we have far exceeded that.

Thanks to the so-called Patriot Act, Bush can have a man on

Uranus by the end of the week! And has upgraded the Golden

Rule to: " Doodoo unto others before they can Doodoo unto you.. "

" The folks we have in charge are fossils fueled by fossil fuels... "

Speaking of oil:

" The world we live in is a byproduct of the products we buy... "

- Swami Beyondananda -

Gretchen

List owner

NOW - " Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 "

> I hope you had the opportunity to watch _NOW_ with Bill Moyers tonight

> (Friday, 07-Feb-03) on PBS. The lead story was about the " Domestic

> Security Enhancement Act of 2003, " DoJ draft legislation that presents a

> serious threat to our civil liberties and civil rights, and is even more

> draconian than the Patriot Act of 2001.

>

> Here is < http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/lewis.html#docs > the page for

> the interview and downloadable PDF versions of the document. (The low

> resolution version is 1.38MB; the high res version is 7MB.)

[Guest guest]

Hello Gretchen & all in group

*

It's a huge mistake, in my opinion,

to characterize G.W. & company as

simply hungry oil barons out for more.

*

Regardless of U.S. support for Iraq

in the war against Iran,

facing-up to the " clear and present' danger

posed by the most heinous tyrant since Hitler is paramount now.

The U.S. leaders had contempt for

Stalin's regime, but nevertheless

made a bargain to defeat the scourge of the Nazis.

*

We can, I believe, remain strongly

opposed to the DOD's unethical

practices as well as the G.W.-Ashcroft

amazing unconstitutional attempt

to create a police state

(a New World Order ?),

and, stay behind the only logical

action towards Iraq's thug,

namely, remove him as the

huge threat he truly has become.

*

The dangers, as were expressed on the Moyers show, are specifically

in the real possibility that

a renewed war in progress WILL

DISTRACT enough Gov't. watchdogs

that this

" Patriot Act II-secret police force "

will SLIP INTO LAW.

*

Because of this REAL possibility,

the time to ACT LOUDLY is NOW.

Barrage the General Acct. Office

with demands for investigation of

the executive branch refusals to

account to the Congressional oversight committee.

Ashcroft, through our representatives,

must be found in contempt of Congress

for his refusal to even respond

regarding his recent " anti-terror "

quasi-legal tactics.

*

Vigilance, now, isn't enough.

*

We must write, call, email, and fax

our REAL objections directly to

our Senators & Reps. ASAP.

*

It's a " red alert " for liberty, in my opinion.

*

May God help us as we help ourselves.

*

Jim, K.C.KS

USAF Vietnam Veteran

31st TAC fighter wing, Tuy Hoa Air Base,

Republic of South Vietnam, '68-'69

.................§...............

For... Low-Cost DOT.COM Services...

..........like...LINKS TO 6000+ websites !

TRY----/\/\/\/--> WebChief Jim's site...

SCROLL DOWN TO ---> " The Marketplace "

......GO ! ... http://www.cejaybe.cjb.net

[wait for page to load-up]

................§...............

[Guest guest]

•> and, stay behind the only logical

•> action towards Iraq's thug,

•> namely, remove him as the

•> huge threat he truly has become.

I don't dispute Saddam's being thoroughly repugnant and in desperate

need of being disposed of. He's been this way for at least a quarter

century. But to me at least, GWB has NOT made a convincing case for

going to war against Iraq just now. The whole idea simply makes no

sense to me. The " evidence " presented at the U.N. (in spite of my deep

respect for Colin ) I found unconvincing.

Going back 11 years, the " evidence " presented before the United States

Congress (in joint session) prior to the 1991 Gulf War about Iraqi

soldiers throwing Kuwaiti babies out of incubators was revealed to be a

complete fabrication created by an advertising agency, and the person

who presented it had not only not witnessed it but had not been to

Kuwait for years prior to that incident. But at that time, Saddam had

actually done something to bring the rest of the world down upon him.

That said, is there any credible reason that we would be so stupid as to

reveal significant aspects of our signals and human intelligence to the

world, thoroughly compromising it for the duration of the proposed

invasion of Iraq? I think not. (The satellite photographs could have

been purchased from a commercial provider, revealing nothing about our

own satellite imaging capabilities.) In short, I believe that at least

some of the " evidence " presented to the U.N. may at best not be current

(some could have dated back at least several years to the UNSCOM

inspections), and at worst completely fabricated.

History is filled with similar examples. The sinking of the U.S.S.

_Maine_ in 1898 was likely due to a magazine explosion that the

Spaniards had nothing to do with. Nevertheless, we went to war against

Spain. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was a distinct non-event, but its

misrepresentation before Congress resulted in more than 58,000 Americans

being killed in Viet Nam, and hundreds of thousands of others physically

or psychologically maimed. Even the architects of the Viet Nam War now

admit it was a horrible mistake.

We have to be skeptical about government or industry attempting to

convince us to do things that many of us may live long to regret, and

for which others of us may needlessly sacrifice their lives, their

bodies, or their minds. Let's be VERY careful before we jump into such

adventures, lest they become horrible errors we all wish we could

redecide. We only have one chance to get it right.

My opinion, anyway.

Fisher, MD

Formerly LTC USAFR MC FS

========================================================================

========

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with

the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is its natural manure.

-- Jefferson

========================================================================

========

•> Re: NOW - " Domestic Security

•> Enhancement Act of 2003 "

•>

•>

•> Hello Gretchen & all in group

•> *

•> It's a huge mistake, in my opinion,

•> to characterize G.W. & company as

•> simply hungry oil barons out for more.

•> *

•> Regardless of U.S. support for Iraq

•> in the war against Iran,

•> facing-up to the " clear and present' danger

•> posed by the most heinous tyrant since Hitler is paramount

•> now. The U.S. leaders had contempt for

•> Stalin's regime, but nevertheless

•> made a bargain to defeat the scourge of the Nazis.

•> *

•> We can, I believe, remain strongly

•> opposed to the DOD's unethical

•> practices as well as the G.W.-Ashcroft

•> amazing unconstitutional attempt

•> to create a police state

•> (a New World Order ?),

•> and, stay behind the only logical

•> action towards Iraq's thug,

•> namely, remove him as the

•> huge threat he truly has become.

•> *

•> The dangers, as were expressed on the Moyers show, are

•> specifically in the real possibility that a renewed war in

•> progress WILL DISTRACT enough Gov't. watchdogs that this

•> " Patriot Act II-secret police force "

•> will SLIP INTO LAW.

•> *

•> Because of this REAL possibility,

•> the time to ACT LOUDLY is NOW.

•> Barrage the General Acct. Office

•> with demands for investigation of

•> the executive branch refusals to

•> account to the Congressional oversight committee.

•> Ashcroft, through our representatives,

•> must be found in contempt of Congress

•> for his refusal to even respond

•> regarding his recent " anti-terror "

•> quasi-legal tactics.

•> *

•> Vigilance, now, isn't enough.

•> *

•> We must write, call, email, and fax

•> our REAL objections directly to

•> our Senators & Reps. ASAP.

•> *

•> It's a " red alert " for liberty, in my opinion.

•> *

•> May God help us as we help ourselves.

•> *

•> Jim, K.C.KS

•> USAF Vietnam Veteran

•> 31st TAC fighter wing, Tuy Hoa Air Base,

•> Republic of South Vietnam, '68-'69

•>

•> ................§...............

•> For... Low-Cost DOT.COM Services...

•> .........like...LINKS TO 6000+ websites !

•> TRY----/\/\/\/--> WebChief Jim's site...

•> SCROLL DOWN TO ---> " The Marketplace "

•> .....GO ! ... http://www.cejaybe.cjb.net

•> [wait for page to load-up]

•> ...............§...............

•>

•>

•> Our Anthrax information web site:

•> http://www.dallasnw.quik.com/cyberella/

•>

/files/VAERS.pdf

DESTROY QUARANTINED VACCINE:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?robi2662 & amp;amp;amp;a

mp;1

PETITION TO OVERTURN/REPEAL FERES DOCTRINE

http://www.i-charity.net/ptn/80 To visit Dr. Meryl Nass's web site, go

to: http://www.anthraxvaccine.org Tom Colosimo's website:

http://www.tomcolosimo.com Also visit: Anthrax Vaccine Benefit vs Risk:

http://www.avip2001.net AND http://www.MajorBates.com/

Anthrax Vaccine Network http://www.anthraxvaccine.net

Sgt. Larson's story:

http://www.house.gov/reform/hearings/healthcare/00.10.03/rugo.htm

http://www.house.gov/reform/hearings/healthcare/00.10.03/accountability.

doc

Tom Heemstra's new book -

http://www.anthraxadeadlyshotinthedark.com/index.html

Contact list owner: Gretchen at: anna_nim@...

[Guest guest]

From: <code52@...>

wrote:

>>>

Regardless of U.S. support for Iraq in the war against Iran, facing-up to the

" clear

and present' danger posed by the most heinous tyrant since Hitler is paramount

now.

The U.S. leaders had contempt for Stalin's regime, but nevertheless made a

bargain

to defeat the scourge of the Nazis.

>>>

**Heinous tyrant? Agreed.....

**Clear and Present danger is debatable, and will no doubt be debated for some

time.

And, is there a clear and present danger to service members going into the Gulf

again?

Where in all these years is the admission of where all the illnesses came from,

a true

death rate (though slow is some cases) or a cure? Victims have had to fight

tooth and

nail for every dollar in compensation. Trust the same government who

perpetrated the

lies re: Gulf War Illness, re: the Anthrax vaccine to define a " clear and

present danger "

Lack of respect for human and civil rights once again seems a clear and present

danger

to us all. And, surely the vaccinated non deployed are at risk once again too.

**This week I watched as a woman on Oprah told how she didn't want to watch more

buildings crumble on TV, 'we' should attack Iraq. She claimed to be like a

Momma bear

protecting her young (namely the country) How refreshing, I guess that means

she will

get out from behind her TV, get a gun and go help? When or if a whole new group

of

Veterans becomes deathly ill, will she even become an activist and do all she

can to help

them, will she bombard congress with letters, march on Washington? No, her 15

seconds

of saying " We " should attack Iraq is all she will do. For her and so many

others, the war

will be another TV program. And where is the guarantee that such an attack will

not infuriate

others to make more buildings crumble here in retaliation anyway? There is no

such guarantee.

**I don't think that the average American understands (or cares about) the

devastation of

Gulf War Illnesses/ Anthrax vaccine illness or is considering this toll of life

while talking

about 'getting rid of Saddam' I personally don't know GW and gangs real

reasoning, I do know

that if it really was all about oil, or something else....they would still take

the high

ground and demonize the Beast of Bagdad and the dangers of leaving him in power,

either way

we would hear the same speeches, true or not.

>>>

We can, I believe, remain strongly opposed to the DOD's unethical practices as

well as the

G.W.-Ashcroft amazing unconstitutional attempt to create a police state (a New

World Order

?),

>>>

**Of course,

>>>

The dangers, as were expressed on the Moyers show, are specifically in the real

possibility that

a renewed war in progress WILL DISTRACT enough Gov't. watchdogs that this

" Patriot Act II-secret police force " will SLIP INTO LAW.

*

We must write, call, email, and fax our REAL objections directly to our Senators

& Reps. ASAP.

*It's a " red alert " for liberty, in my opinion.

>>>

**As often as possible!

I am including something Angus sent me just this morning. Another reminder of

the possible

upcomming toll on our troops.

Gretchen

List owner

Re: NOW - " Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 "

Hello Gretchen & all in group

*

It's a huge mistake, in my opinion,

to characterize G.W. & company as

simply hungry oil barons out for more.

*

Regardless of U.S. support for Iraq

in the war against Iran,

facing-up to the " clear and present' danger

posed by the most heinous tyrant since Hitler is paramount now.

The U.S. leaders had contempt for

Stalin's regime, but nevertheless

made a bargain to defeat the scourge of the Nazis.

*

We can, I believe, remain strongly

opposed to the DOD's unethical

practices as well as the G.W.-Ashcroft

amazing unconstitutional attempt

to create a police state

(a New World Order ?),

and, stay behind the only logical

action towards Iraq's thug,

namely, remove him as the

huge threat he truly has become.

*

The dangers, as were expressed on the Moyers show, are specifically

in the real possibility that

a renewed war in progress WILL

DISTRACT enough Gov't. watchdogs

that this

" Patriot Act II-secret police force "

will SLIP INTO LAW.

*

Because of this REAL possibility,

the time to ACT LOUDLY is NOW.

Barrage the General Acct. Office

with demands for investigation of

the executive branch refusals to

account to the Congressional oversight committee.

Ashcroft, through our representatives,

must be found in contempt of Congress

for his refusal to even respond

regarding his recent " anti-terror "

quasi-legal tactics.

*

Vigilance, now, isn't enough.

*

We must write, call, email, and fax

our REAL objections directly to

our Senators & Reps. ASAP.

*

It's a " red alert " for liberty, in my opinion.

*

May God help us as we help ourselves.

*

Jim, K.C.KS

USAF Vietnam Veteran

31st TAC fighter wing, Tuy Hoa Air Base,

Republic of South Vietnam, '68-'69

[Guest guest]

Thanks, , for your postings. You've been a big help to many on

this list and I wish you well in your legal proceedings. Please allow

me to add my comments, but don't take them too personally. I've been

stewing on this for a while and I have some things I need to say.

To me, North Korea and the BS that they are pulling now with their

posturing and threats to use nuclear weapons only serves to strengthen

GWB's case that NOW is the time to act in Iraq, not before Iraq gets

nuclear capabilities. Obviously, the US knows that Saddam already has

chemical and biological weapons because we sold it to them (American

Type Cultures, Inc. - just down the road from Ft. Detrick) while they

were at war with Iran.

Regardless of whether you find the evidence convincing or not doesn't

really matter. What does matter is that the more time we give Saddam to

lie and hide his weapons of mass destruction, the more time he has to

further develop and deploy those weapons. More time is exactly what

Saddam wants so that the US can defeat itself by making the war less

palatable through peace protests and the like. I find it incredible

that CNN and other major media outlets would put such weight on what

Hollywood stars like Barbara Streissand, Alec Baldwin, Dave s,

Sheryl Crow, etc. think. They are clueless and too politically

motivated. I'm sure that if Bill Clinton were still making the

decisions, they wouldn't have a problem - not that I think Bill Clinton

would make the same stand that GWB has.

I think the notion that this war is just for oil is preposterous. If

that were the case, we could just take it. The US is not interested in

making Iraq the 51st state so that we can have cheap gas prices - it's

about removing from power a person who has no moral values and no

respect for human life. Saddam has demonstrated a history of using

WMD's against his own people. He uses civilians as human shields. He

rules with such fear among his own people that no one dares to speak

against him lest they and their families be killed. He is actively

harboring terrorists and is likely passing along weapons or funding to

support missions against western culture.

North Korea is a similar country where the civilian population is

starving to death while an evil dictator rules with an iron fist, but

they have nukes and that changes things significantly.

I heard a report on the radio that Israeli intelligence had

successfully removed Saddam's chief bodyguard and his family and that

this bodyguard had details on weapons programs and sites. This

information will likely be passed along to the UN inspectors, but what

good will that do? Are you suggesting it was wrong for GWB to mobilize

troops to be ready to act quickly, in the event the inspectors found

" the smoking gun " ? Or should the buildup wait until afterwards?

The next terrorist attack is coming, like it or not, and probably

sooner rather than later. Do we wait for terrorists to politely give us

advance warning? Can we afford to wait and do nothing?

Supposedly, Saddam has already given the order to use his chemical and

biological weapons. Our best chances to prevent that are to quickly

eliminate Saddam and hope that the Iraqi military gets the message. I

don't think the Iraqi's will present much of a fight, but the key is to

kill Saddam and end his reign of terror. The longer the fight goes on,

the more likely that other Muslim extremists will be motivated toward

action.

The line has been drawn. This fight is just and noble, and is the right

thing for the US and the world to do. Decency and human rights must

prevail over evil and tyranny. This is much bigger than just Anthrax-No

and civil rights, although I obviously share your opinions on those

issues.

> " The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to

> do nothing. "

>

> " When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall

> one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle. "

>

> Edmund Burke

To quote Glenn Beck (http://www.glennbeck.com)

" World War III started back on Sept. 11, 2001. The rest of the world is

just now beginning to realize it... "

May God be with us all in this fight...

Blackburn

On Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 02:02 PM, Star Strider wrote:

> I don't dispute Saddam's being thoroughly repugnant and in desperate

> need of being disposed of. He's been this way for at least a quarter

> century. But to me at least, GWB has NOT made a convincing case for

> going to war against Iraq just now. The whole idea simply makes no

> sense to me. The " evidence " presented at the U.N. (in spite of my deep

> respect for Colin ) I found unconvincing.

[Guest guest]

Hahahahahah - time to get out of the US for a little while so you can think

straight!

You have got to be kidding..................

Time to see the forest for the trees.

You don't actually believe all that you wrote do you?

Bet you bought duct tape and believed the terror alerts too?

This might help put it in perspective for you.......;-)

Interesting from someone on another list.

" Here are my thoughts on the affects of the protests and other highlights

from Smirk's week from hell. This was an email i sent to a few anti-bush

Chympathizers yesterday. "

KEEP AN EYE ON THOSE POLLS!

I can't imagine a worse week for Smirk and the Family Chimp:

• Press reports Levin's charge that CIA is working to sabotage inspections

in Iraq

• Duct tape laughing stock snowballs to " potatoe " proportions (this refers

to Dan Quayle fiasco over spelling potatoe)

• Ridge smirks on TV while dismissing terror-alert overreaction

• Press reports Orange Alert based on false info

• Press reports some of 's (Wonder why he wasn't on the Sunday

talkshows?) testimony plagiarized from 10-year old college term paper

• Newsweek's cover story dismantles report fabrication-by-fabrication

• again is handed bad info on " Usama " /Saddam connection which he

duly reports to the UN

• Press reports later that " Usama " also called Saddam a socialist and

infidel— tape also shows bin Laden has not been " smoked out "

• MSNBC gets caught sanitizing above story

• " French are irrelevant, " " Germans are irrelevant. " " UN is irrelevant, "

" NATO is irrelevant " spin unravels.

• People may be starting to realize GOP " smirking heads " on TV are not

naming the countries who support us because we've never heard of most of them

• Press reports Fox News suspiciously ran entire bin Laden tape, against

White House's previous request to abstain in case there are hidden

messages, Ari and Ridge say the White House has no problem with Fox's action

• Fox News " reporters' expelled from Iraq, calling attention to their nexus

with Team Smirk

• Blix hands his lunch at UN, stock market soars

• UN applauds French while 's angry rebut is met with resentful silence

• Repubs French-bashing in congress bombs

• The Pope himself comes out against the War

• (snowbound) Americans for the first time see the world's hatred of Smirk

as MILLIONS take to the streets in protest

• By Sunday, CBS news reports Snippy's approval rating at 54% (38%

disapproval), while Fox News' infamously inflated poll puts him at 57%

• On Sunday, Fox News puts a poll on the screen that 68% of Americans

approve of the war. On the " crawl " they post that 50% disapprove of his

Iraq policy

And I'm sure I'm missing something. Keep an eye on the polls this week.

Mark down President's Day weekend as the time Rove's statue of a chimp with

a bullhorn and windbreaker began to crumble in earnest. Last week was the

Iraq war's Tet Offensive. I no longer believe Bush can pull off an attack

politically.

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Homeopathy course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

Re: NOW - " Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 "

> Thanks, , for your postings. You've been a big help to many on

> this list and I wish you well in your legal proceedings. Please allow

> me to add my comments, but don't take them too personally. I've been

> stewing on this for a while and I have some things I need to say.

SNIP

Ok list,

I found that I had let have a bit of a say along the lines of War with

Iraq.

Then today, I finally got into the website ('s) and found 's polite

post expressing his views. It didn't seem fair not to also forward that out as

well.

(I had missed it earlier using mailbox approval methods over web based).

My post focused more on unanswered GWS questions, but was borderline.

Now that the can of worms is open for real. Another post is waiting and I will

forward that as well, no way out of it really.... For a couple of days, if

needed,

we can go a bit off topic. BUT any future posts need to be less 'flamey' and

respect that we may have many views on this. No one has a crystal ball here.

But, I do have a moderator delete key and really hate flamming posts...HINT

Keep it reasonably short no vast forwarded texts from others, links ok. And

please snip off when hitting 'reply to' I am getting so many full copies of the

posts you are responding to, including even footers.

Gretchen

List owner

[Guest guest]

I appreciate your comments. I add a few of my own in clarification.

•> I'm sure that if Bill Clinton were still making the

•> decisions, they wouldn't have a problem - not that I think

•> Bill Clinton would make the same stand that GWB has.

I disagreed with Clinton on a good many things, one of which was pulling

the inspectors out of Iraq in 1998. If anything, we should have flooded

Iraq with " inspectors " until we effectively dismantled Saddam's

Stalinist police state while leaving Iraq's essential civil

infrastructure intact.

•> I think the notion that this war is just for oil is preposterous.

" Oil " is a much a metaphor here as a reality. We don't want anybody

challenging our hegemony in the Middle East or anywhere else. That's an

unrealistic and decidedly " imperialist " stance that will not only not

shield us from future " 9/11 " attacks but in my view, will make them more

likely. There will always be petty dictators of one type or another

that will incur our disfavor, some more brutal than Saddam Hussein, some

less. To suggest that we are champions of representative democracy in

the Middle East ignores our support of the Saudi and Kuwait royal

families, both as repressive if not as overtly brutal as Saddam Hussein.

•> He is actively harboring terrorists and is likely passing along

weapons or

•> funding to support missions against western culture.

Please provide good evidence that he's alone in this in the Middle East

if not the world. Most of the " 9/11 " hijackers were Saudis, not Iraqis.

For that matter, if I remember correctly, none of them were Iraqis.

Where's the problem?

•> North Korea is a similar country where the civilian population is

•> starving to death while an evil dictator rules with an iron fist, but

•> they have nukes and that changes things significantly.

They also have China. Nevertheless, it doesn't change the essential

argument against them (they're a classically Stalinist régime). The

fact that North Korea has nukes means it can sell them to whoever can

afford them, and that South Korea (and probably part of Japan) is a

smokin' crater if we go after North Korea. So the lesson here is that

" bad " is relative, and if you're " too " bad, we leave you alone.

Doesn't this send exactly the *wrong* message? It says to all those

countries that want to keep the United States at a distance to start

*now* to build stockpiles of weapons to keep us away, beginning a " WMD "

arms race to rival the worst days of the Cold War. Shouldn't we go

after North Korea instead, to keep it from exporting nukes and missiles

to other dictatorships, even if it means risking an all-out nuclear war?

Doesn't that make more sense? Wrong is wrong, no?

•> Are you suggesting it was wrong for GWB to mobilize

•> troops to be ready to act quickly, in the event the inspectors found

•> " the smoking gun " ? Or should the buildup wait until afterwards?

Holding a gun to Saddam's head while the inspectors keep working might

keep him from doing something else we don't like. But a unilateral war

against Iraq while we tell the rest of the world its opinion doesn't

matter to us is a move we will live long to regret.

•> The next terrorist attack is coming, like it or not, and probably

•> sooner rather than later. Do we wait for terrorists to politely give

us

•> advance warning? Can we afford to wait and do nothing?

The " 9/11 " attack could have been completely prevented had the ALPA

gotten the secure cockpit doors it has been requesting for the past

quarter century. In any event, I believe that going to war against Iraq

will likely stimulate more terrorist attacks against the United States

and its allies and its overseas interests. Think about it. The only

way to become completely secure is to become totally imperialistic and

repressive, both domestically and internationally. Maybe it's just me,

but I don't want that. Besides, it's been tried, and those countries

that have tried it are burned-out cinders of their former selves. We

can do better.

•> The longer the fight goes on,

•> the more likely that other Muslim extremists will be

•> motivated toward action.

Our moving in and killing Saddam will prevent other Muslim extremists?

I think the gross carnage we'll cause to the Iraqi people will more than

likely excite Muslim extremists to greater challenges and excesses.

That's a problem we will just exacerbate.

Post-war Iraq will by definition become the 51st state because the three

principal factions that make it up will all be vying for power after

Saddam's régime falls. We have to stay there to protect what's left of

Iraq from its own internal factionalism. We'll have troops in Iraq for

decades afterwards. If we leave Iraq to its own devices, the Kurds will

form an independent Kurdistan to the consternation of the Turks (do we

grant diplomatic recognition to Kurdistan?), Iran will back the Shiites

against the Sunnis, and so the Southern non-Kurd portion of Iraq will

become an Islamic Republic dictatorship not unlike Iran. How does that

make things better?

Can we or should we save the world from itself? We can't even save

ourselves! GWB *lost* the popular vote, and would have lost Florida had

he not " won " the 5-4 " election " in the Supreme Court that stopped the

count. (Yes, I'm still pissed about that.)

We can best support our troops by bringing them home NOW! This proposed

war against Iraq is simply insane.

Fisher, MD

Formerly LTC USAFR MC FS

========================================================================

========

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with

the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is its natural manure.

-- Jefferson

========================================================================

========