ANTHRAX

[Guest guest]

Jeff:

You are all over this! I (and all of my buddies looking at either getting

injected or getting out of the ANG) really appreciate your hard work and

enthusiasm for exposing the stupidity of the AVIP. As a C-130 Aircraft

Commander in the land ANG, I am as concerned about this completely

misguided program as you are. Unfortunately, it looks as if the " 2 line

theory " will prevail at my unit in January ( the 2 lines are the one to

get the shot and the one to out process). It is utterly amazing to me

that in a time of serious retention issues the DoD would think it wise to

push this thing so hard. I hate to think that I am going to have to walk

away from 10 years in my unit over an arguably ineffective force

protection measure.

I would love to hear from you on this if you have time.

Capt. Lee Fishpaw

135th Airlift Squadron, MDANG

___________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

This is in response to the Gov't waiting until next spring. Unfortunately,

it's not true. I just found out that my unit will begin taking th AV starting

Nov. 30

[Guest guest]

Where are you located? Active, Res., Guard?

Grommett72@... wrote:

>

> From: Grommett72@...

>

> This is in response to the Gov't waiting until next spring. Unfortunately,

> it's not true. I just found out that my unit will begin taking th AV starting

> Nov. 30

>

[Guest guest]

My unit is also not postponing until spring. We are scheduled to vaccinate

the bulk of our folks starting 7 Jan.

Geneva

Re: Fwd: anthrax

> From: Grommett72@...

>

> This is in response to the Gov't waiting until next spring.

Unfortunately,

> it's not true. I just found out that my unit will begin taking th AV

starting

> Nov. 30

[Guest guest]

Thought I would forward mister Fumento's comments that I recieved back from

him. What an a... hole. Jimmy

Message text written by INTERNET:BAMAFANB4u@...

>

Let's SEE YOU TAKE THE SERIES OF SHOTS. Obviously you have not read the

GAO

reports. It is a frightening thought that someone like you can spout

propaganda without a factual basis or perhaps it is sour grapes because you

have a vested/financial interest in this vaccine. Put your own butt on the

line Mister Fumento. I am a retired Army First Sergeant and I can tell you

that I don't trust DOD to take care of our troops. If you can condone

relabeling of expired medications (FDA report) and issuing it to the troops

as a sound medical practice then obviously you are in the wrong field. You

need to go into politics.<

I TRIED BECAUSE I KNEW PEOPLE LIKE YOU WOULD IGNORE ALL MY FACTS AND

INSTEAD SAY SOMETHING DUMB LIKE THAT. But in light of the shortage, the

Defense Department said no. Did I condone the use of expired medicine?

Did I even mention it? No, I didn't think so. That's not why there's

hysteria over this vaccine. And I'm delighted you're retired because I

don't trust you to take care of our troops.

Sincerely,

Fumento

Fumento

www.fumento.com

[Guest guest]

Jimmy,

Of course Mr. Fumento didn't mention expired vaccine, as far as that

not being the cause of the 'hysteria', that fact was a great concern in

the beginning of all of this. The Inspection report for MBPI was

among the early documents on the internet, along with the warning

letters.

The expired vaccines did play a big part early on and still

do. If Mr. Fumento was doing a thorough job he would have addressed the

issues and not simply glossed over things. His responses so far border

on retarded. The indemnity documents wern't on the net for a long time,

more than a year into the fight. Lori Greenleaf was fighting the AVIP

for nearly a year before there was the first Anthrax hearing. Later

when so many became ill, we had even more valid concerns. Mr. Fumento

makes me almost wish we had a vaccine for incompetent 'reporters'... or

a vaccine for stupidity.

What would have prevented Mr. Fumento from linking to the Indemnity

documents for example, right from his web page? He could have easily

turned that into a link in his article. He is simply pushing the

Anthrax vaccine. A true impartial investigative reporter attempting to

deal in the truth and get people to think would not operate this way.

Gretchen

p.s. Please save his responses along with the source codes

BAMAFANB4u@... wrote:

>

> Thought I would forward mister Fumento's comments that I recieved back from

> him. What an a... hole. Jimmy

>

> ---------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Subject: ANTHRAX

> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:46:10 -0500

> From: Fumento <MFumento@...>

> Blind.Copy.Receiver@...

>

> Message text written by INTERNET:BAMAFANB4u@...

> >

> Let's SEE YOU TAKE THE SERIES OF SHOTS. Obviously you have not read the

> GAO

> reports. It is a frightening thought that someone like you can spout

> propaganda without a factual basis or perhaps it is sour grapes because you

>

> have a vested/financial interest in this vaccine. Put your own butt on the

>

> line Mister Fumento. I am a retired Army First Sergeant and I can tell you

>

> that I don't trust DOD to take care of our troops. If you can condone

> relabeling of expired medications (FDA report) and issuing it to the troops

>

> as a sound medical practice then obviously you are in the wrong field. You

>

> need to go into politics.<

>

> I TRIED BECAUSE I KNEW PEOPLE LIKE YOU WOULD IGNORE ALL MY FACTS AND

> INSTEAD SAY SOMETHING DUMB LIKE THAT. But in light of the shortage, the

> Defense Department said no. Did I condone the use of expired medicine?

> Did I even mention it? No, I didn't think so. That's not why there's

> hysteria over this vaccine. And I'm delighted you're retired because I

> don't trust you to take care of our troops.

>

> Sincerely,

> Fumento

>

> Fumento

> www.fumento.com

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to share Mr Fumento's reply concerning my comments about his

article in the Wall Street Journal. Can we make sure that all of the vet

groups get his email address. He not only believes that there is no such

thing as the Gulf War Syndrome but also believes that about the Agent Orange

sufferers also. Jimmy

you are not going to believe this response. this guy is in left field.

One hardly need be a vet to write about anthrax vaccinations, but it

happens I served four years active duty in the Army, including SF and

conventional airborne. How about you tough guy? And I'm delighted you

view Life magazine as a reliable source, but I don't. Most of what you

write has nothing to do with my piece, such as Bioport's problems. When I

gave data on the few adverse reactions to the vaccine, it wipes away all

the extraneous stuff you present. Bottom line: It's safe, and nothing you

said contradicted that. Finally, as to Agent Orange, the Pentagon was

right and you are wrong. I have a whole chapter on this in my book Science

Under Siege. Agent Orange was just the precursor to GWS. Every time any

vet anywhere got sick, it was blamed on Agent Orange--even if they didn't

get any closer to Vietnam than Hawaii! But study after study has shown

that while yes, there are sick Viet vets, on the whole they are in as good

a shape as vets who didn't go to Vietnam. Likewise with miscarriages and

birth defects. Sorry, you lose.

If you had done any a little research, you would have found that was one of

the things that BIOPORT was cited for. IF you need information to do

research, I will be glad to forward some DOD, GAO, and FDA links to you as

well as numerous media articles from sources such as life magazine. DOD's

record of using troops from experiments has been well documented for years.

Lets look at the atomic testing, use of mind altering drugs, Agent Orange

and

the latest executive order signed on 30 September 1999 authorizing the use

of

experimental drugs on the troops. Remember that DOD said for years that

Agent Orange was in the mind.

Have you ever served in the military? What is your basis for your

comments?

Let's talk about a facility where the CEO is a retired joint chief of staff

or DOD bailing out a company which has a monopoly on the manufacture of the

vaccine ([Does the name MICROSOFT ring a bell). As a journalist I would

think that you would be up in arms about use of tax dollars to bail out

private companies without congressional approval and now BIOPORT is asking

for more money.

Have you sat in VA underfunded hospitals and seen the sick folks from the

Gulf War suffering? Obviously not.

I would suggest sir, that you look at all sources before paying umbrage to

the company line. And I will have you know that I served honorably for 21

years in the military. Can you say the same???

[Guest guest]

This guy is in left field. He attacks this kid for being national guard. He

brags about being active duty airborne for 4 years. When I told him I had

two tours and retired from 18th Airborne Corps at Bragg, this was his

response. Jimmy

This guy is out in left field. Pompous individual, isn't he??

Message text written by INTERNET:BAMAFANB4u@...

>I retired from 18th Airborne Corps

(total of 8 years) at Bragg so there goes your theory.<

I spent four years in, mostly in the 18th (27th Engr. Bn) and was smart

enough to get out and establish a successful career while people like you

were sticking around in dreams of half-pay retirement. Of course, half of

nearly nothing is nearly nothing, but you don't think about that, do you?

You're what we called a LIFER: Lazy Ignorant Fuckers Expecting to Retire.

[Guest guest]

The guy is a jerk. Not only a jerk but a stupid jerk.

Btw I may have already said this (my days are blending together) But there are

Congressmen/women not on the list for co-sponsorship of H.R. 2548 that we can

add

to our side. Zack Wamp, Degette and Deal. I'm feeling a little

better about that at least. Anyway, we need to mail them and thank them for

their support.

BAMAFANB4u@... wrote:

> This guy is in left field. He attacks this kid for being national guard. He

> brags about being active duty airborne for 4 years. When I told him I had

> two tours and retired from 18th Airborne Corps at Bragg, this was his

> response. Jimmy

[Guest guest]

To List:

Time to push for a memorial to all those who have suffered from Agent

Orange, and Gulf War Illness, maybe Anthrax is next. Those who have given

their lives are probably far better off than those who are suffering from

the effects of Government induced illnesses.

Schuyler McCorkle

e-mail: csmccorkle@...

> From: BAMAFANB4u@...

> Reply-onelist

> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:38:05 EST

> onelist

> Subject: Fwd: ANTHRAX

>

>

> Just wanted to share Mr Fumento's reply concerning my comments about his

> article in the Wall Street Journal. Can we make sure that all of the vet

> groups get his email address. He not only believes that there is no such

> thing as the Gulf War Syndrome but also believes that about the Agent Orange

> sufferers also. Jimmy

[Guest guest]

A national guard unit that will be deployed in several months has a problen

with the anthrax shots. It is given in a series of shots. 13 members of the

unit have refused to take the shots because they are afraid of becoming ill.

I think the word is getting out

[Guest guest]

From: E3280S@...

A national guard unit that will be deployed in several months has a problen

with the anthrax shots. It is given in a series of shots. 13 members of

the

unit have refused to take the shots because they are afraid of becoming ill.

I think the word is getting out

[Patti:] They face 5 years in jail for refusing and a dishonorable

discharge which means they loose rights as a citizen (like the right to

vote). I would gladly face this than go through what I have for the last 8

years. I've already spent more than 5 years in the " jail " of illness.

[Guest guest]

60 Minutes just did a segment on soldiers refusing the shots. Maybe you knew

this already. If so, please excuse.

Kathleen

E3280S@... wrote:

> From: E3280S@...

>

> A national guard unit that will be deployed in several months has a problen

> with the anthrax shots. It is given in a series of shots. 13 members of the

> unit have refused to take the shots because they are afraid of becoming ill.

> I think the word is getting out

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

[This message contained attachments]

[Guest guest]

>

> Anthrax

>

>

>Dawn,

> This is Dunavin again I've spoken with you a couple of times before.

>My son Stuart Sprabary is the one that was not going to be allowed back into

>school until he had the other Hepatitis B, shots, but Mr. Fielnbaum helped

>me, any way all of that to say this. My oldest son is in the Army, he just

>turned 18 on the 4th, he's been stationed to Korea, he's to leave in Jan. He

>has not started the series of anthrax shots yet, but is supposed to soon.

>Does he HAVE to do this? IS there ANYTHING he can do NOT to have to take

>this shot, And not get in trouble with them???????I've gone into the sight

>Military.com and of course the info. that was in there is no longer there.

>Dawn this is freaking me and him out. They don't know what this shot will do

>to them in their future. Is there anything to do?

>

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

KVMR Broadcaster/Programmer/Investigative Reporter, Nevada City CA

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[Guest guest]

Dear Joni,

Just what you need, eh?

I think it MIGHT help if you point out that anthrax doesn't spread

from person to person, and, in fact, it's REALLY hard to make someone sick

with it. And that it is still much more dangerous to cross a highway or drive

a car than to open the mail. The smiley lady in Florida who was treated for

it and is now back at work might be helpful - show him her picture and say,

" see? She HAD anthrax (or was exposed) and look at her! She looks like she

just won Wheel of Fortune! " Oh, I dunno. None of this will get beyond the

OCD anti-logic, will it? I hate OCD. Logical explanations don't work!!

Just DON'T let him start thinking about ebola. Throw out your t.v.

Sorry I don't have any brilliant suggestions.

[Guest guest]

Great ideas, . Ebola? piece-a-cake. What we outta do with the

terrorists is isolate the OCD gene and contaminate THEM with it!!!

That should get them running for their lives....

Joni

> Dear Joni,

> Just what you need, eh?

> I think it MIGHT help if you point out that anthrax doesn't

spread

> from person to person, and, in fact, it's REALLY hard to make

someone sick

> with it. And that it is still much more dangerous to cross a

highway or drive

> a car than to open the mail. The smiley lady in Florida who was

treated for

> it and is now back at work might be helpful - show him her picture

and say,

> " see? She HAD anthrax (or was exposed) and look at her! She looks

like she

> just won Wheel of Fortune! " Oh, I dunno. None of this will get

beyond the

> OCD anti-logic, will it? I hate OCD. Logical explanations don't

work!!

> Just DON'T let him start thinking about ebola. Throw out

your t.v.

> Sorry I don't have any brilliant suggestions.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ooh Joni, what a great idea. A vicious strep strain perhaps?? Then they could

all sit around WORRYING about the weather, viruses, thunder, uneven eyebrows,

etc. and quit obsessing about us.

[Guest guest]

Good suggestions, . I'd leave out the part about the danger of

driving a car, though. We don't want Joni incarcerated at home with

who would then refuse to ride in the car. She surely would die

a slow and painful death! ;-)

You are right, though...it is so difficult and frustrating not to be

able to use logic with OCD! That is how we were all taught how to

approach problems. sigh!

Melinda S.

Dallas

> Dear Joni,

> Just what you need, eh?

> I think it MIGHT help if you point out that anthrax doesn't

spread

> from person to person, and, in fact, it's REALLY hard to make

someone sick

> with it. And that it is still much more dangerous to cross a

highway or drive

> a car than to open the mail. The smiley lady in Florida who was

treated for

> it and is now back at work might be helpful - show him her picture

and say,

> " see? She HAD anthrax (or was exposed) and look at her! She looks

like she

> just won Wheel of Fortune! " Oh, I dunno. None of this will get

beyond the

> OCD anti-logic, will it? I hate OCD. Logical explanations don't

work!!

> Just DON'T let him start thinking about ebola. Throw out

your t.v.

> Sorry I don't have any brilliant suggestions.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, Joni, since OCD apparently has no logic to it perhaps this

anthrax stuff won't even phase ! I mean the anthrax is REAL. I

think sometimes OCD stuff is more imagined! Just don't let him open

any mail!!!!

> > Dear Joni,

> > Just what you need, eh?

> > I think it MIGHT help if you point out that anthrax

doesn't

> spread

> > from person to person, and, in fact, it's REALLY hard to make

> someone sick

> > with it. And that it is still much more dangerous to cross a

> highway or drive

> > a car than to open the mail. The smiley lady in Florida who was

> treated for

> > it and is now back at work might be helpful - show him her

picture

> and say,

> > " see? She HAD anthrax (or was exposed) and look at her! She looks

> like she

> > just won Wheel of Fortune! " Oh, I dunno. None of this will get

> beyond the

> > OCD anti-logic, will it? I hate OCD. Logical explanations don't

> work!!

> > Just DON'T let him start thinking about ebola. Throw out

> your t.v.

> > Sorry I don't have any brilliant suggestions.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> > > Dear Joni,

> > > Just what you need, eh?

> > > I think it MIGHT help if you point out that anthrax

> doesn't

> > spread

> > > from person to person, and, in fact, it's REALLY hard to make

> > someone sick

> > > with it. And that it is still much more dangerous to cross a

> > highway or drive

> > > a car than to open the mail. The smiley lady in Florida who was

> > treated for

> > > it and is now back at work might be helpful - show him her

> picture

> > and say,

> > > " see? She HAD anthrax (or was exposed) and look at her! She

looks

> > like she

> > > just won Wheel of Fortune! " Oh, I dunno. None of this will get

> > beyond the

> > > OCD anti-logic, will it? I hate OCD. Logical explanations don't

> > work!!

> > > Just DON'T let him start thinking about ebola. Throw out

> > your t.v.

> > > Sorry I don't have any brilliant suggestions.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

This is one of those times when I feel really fortunate that Billie's

contamination fears are specific and not more general. She heard about

Anthrax on the news the other day the rest of the family about it. She was

told that it's caused by a grem, not contagious, etc. Then, last night

Billie and I were watching TV when there was a " Coming up next on the news "

kinda blurb where Anthrax was mentioned. Billie said " Oh, Mama, that's not

good. Amtracks is a very bad disease! " Then she moved right on to another

topic. Now, if we had been talking about the DEADLY BACTERIA on the dinner

dishes that were waiting to be loaded into the dishwasher, that would have

been a whole other story!

Kathy

At 4:14 PM +0000 10/13/2001, Joni wrote:

>

>Anyone got any good ideas/web sites on how to TALK to a germ-phobic

>

>kid about the news? I'm keeping (10,ocd- contamination fears)

>

>away from the TV news as much as possible, but it's going to happen.

>

>He WILL find out about the Anthrax scare and it's going to confirm

>

>that his irrational fears aren't so irrational afterall.

>

>ugh!!!!!!!!

>

>Joni

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good idea!! Joni

Re: Anthrax

> Great ideas, . Ebola? piece-a-cake. What we outta do with the

> terrorists is isolate the OCD gene and contaminate THEM with it!!!

> That should get them running for their lives....

> Joni

>

>

>

> > Dear Joni,

> > Just what you need, eh?

> > I think it MIGHT help if you point out that anthrax doesn't

> spread

> > from person to person, and, in fact, it's REALLY hard to make

> someone sick

> > with it. And that it is still much more dangerous to cross a

> highway or drive

> > a car than to open the mail. The smiley lady in Florida who was

> treated for

> > it and is now back at work might be helpful - show him her picture

> and say,

> > " see? She HAD anthrax (or was exposed) and look at her! She looks

> like she

> > just won Wheel of Fortune! " Oh, I dunno. None of this will get

> beyond the

> > OCD anti-logic, will it? I hate OCD. Logical explanations don't

> work!!

> > Just DON'T let him start thinking about ebola. Throw out

> your t.v.

> > Sorry I don't have any brilliant suggestions.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Nothing Here???????

anthrax

[Guest guest]

517-891 5926 FROM 314-881 9091.I SERVED 1966-1969 . THIS IS NOT A TEST THAT

MOST VETS WILL BE TESTED FOR. I TESTED POSITIVE ANTHRAX. HAS ANYONE ASKED HOW

LONG THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON MICHAEL H GREEN