Re: Could this be the driving force behind the AVIP?

[Guest guest]

The theory behind the AVIP in respects to the driving boost of a multimillion

industry in pharmaceutical makes sense in the financial approach. What does

not make sense however in my feeble mind is the approach that is going on if

the theory be correct. Why use them (experimental vaccines) on healthy

military personnel for civilians? The reason I ask this question is that it

is not the civilians who defend the nation, it is the military personnel.

Why weaken or break down a defense with no other course of reacting if

something should occur? I ask these questions for hopes of a logical

explanation, as I am writing this, I can't believe I am asking after looking

into past history, all I can ask is " why? " It just doesn't make sense, but

yet is becoming a little x-filish.

[Guest guest]

Dr. Nass,

The monetary and financial incentive to force this vaccine on us is one of my

taller soap boxes that I get up on. What else could it be? It can't be for

our health and well being, there are too many people getting sick and growing

unwanted golf ball to tennis ball size lumps at the injection site. It can't

be for the protection, there is no evidence that it will protect us from this

spore, especially since there are so many different anthrax varieties. It can

be because there are millions to be made from this scam. People will do

anything for money, even take lives. It is sad that a group of our former

leaders have taken up the cause to make money at the expense of the military

that they once commanded. The oath to protect and maintain the health and

well being of their troops must have retired with them as well. As for the

ones still in, they must have skipped that part of their ritual. Maybe, some

of them will look around and find that conscience tucked away somewhere, drag

it out and rededicated themselves to the real cause of their charge.

Bill

Meryl Nass wrote:

> From: Meryl Nass <mnass@...>

>

> When anthrax vaccinations were announced in December 1997, I thought the

> program would be stopped as soon as authorities like Secretary Cohen

> understood the dearth of supportive safety and efficacy data. I wrote

> to him and Dr. Gerard Burrow in January 1998 to point out the unresolved

> issues re anthrax vaccine and GWI, as well as what was known and unknown

> of safety and efficacy. Neither replied.

>

> During the subsequent year and a half, I have been amazed at the amount

> of effort that has been expended by DOD to maintain the vaccination

> program in spite of its serious shortcomings and probable lack of

> efficacy.

>

> Why?

>

> Some have pointed to the $60 million contract with Bioport for vaccine

> production. But that money goes only to the owners. Why have so many

> at DOD risked so much in support of this program?

>

> It has been estimated that it takes $200 - $300 million dollars to

> develop, test and license a new vaccine. If the JVAP brings 12 vaccines

> on board, development costs should exceed $2 billion. Manufacturing

> costs will increase this considerably. A large vaccine infrastructure

> will be created, with jobs for retiring military physicians and

> scientists.

>

> But it may not end there. Private industry is working on dozens of new

> vaccines, with the goal of vaccinating the population for everything

> from earaches to cancer. These vaccines will require new technologies

> to be effective, and new adjuvants. None of the needed adjuvants are

> currently licensed in the US.

>

> Many vaccines in trial recently and currently have been tested by US

> miilitary physicians, both on US servicemembers and on populations

> overseas. These include vaccines for HIV, Hepatitis A (Hoke et al

> [WRAIR], Vaccine, 1992 and J Infect Dis 1995), malaria, adenovirus,

> cholera ( et al, Infect Immun 1999 [uSNMRID, Lima] etc.

>

> It is possible that the US military population, with its history of

> 'volunteerism' for vaccine trials documented in the preceding paragraph,

> will be used to test these new vaccines and the adjuvants that may be

> included with them. (I mention adjuvants because evidence of their role

> in autoimmunity already exists.) Pharmaceutical vaccines comprise a

> multibillion dollar, rapidly growing industry.

>

> Is it possible that the JVAP was developed to serve, in part, to test

> vaccine constituents on a healthy young military population that will

> subsequently be used for civilian vaccines? Is it possible that the

> JVAP is an essential component of a burgeoning industry that will

> provide very comfortable positions for scores of military medical

> officers? Colonel Franz, formerly a commander at Fort Detrick,

> has already left to work for a contractor (Southern Research) who built

> a new office in Frederick MD, the home of Fort Detrick.

>

> These are suppositions. I welcome the comments and opinions of others.

>

> Meryl Nass

> --

> Meryl Nass, M.D.

> Parkview Hospital, Brunswick, Maine 04011

> email mnass@...

> phone (207) 865-0875

> fax (207) 865-6975

[Guest guest]

The sick and dying are considered " acceptable losses " until such time as those

losses cause political damage to the careers of generals and politicians. The

casualties will mount. The DOD cannot be trusted to keep an accurate count.

n

Colley wrote:

> From: Colley <wecbac@...>

>

> Dr. Nass,

>

> The monetary and financial incentive to force this vaccine on us is one of my

> taller soap boxes that I get up on. What else could it be? It can't be for

> our health and well being, there are too many people getting sick and growing

> unwanted golf ball to tennis ball size lumps at the injection site. It can't

> be for the protection, there is no evidence that it will protect us from this

> spore, especially since there are so many different anthrax varieties. It can

> be because there are millions to be made from this scam. People will do

> anything for money, even take lives. It is sad that a group of our former

> leaders have taken up the cause to make money at the expense of the military

> that they once commanded. The oath to protect and maintain the health and

> well being of their troops must have retired with them as well. As for the

> ones still in, they must have skipped that part of their ritual. Maybe, some

> of them will look around and find that conscience tucked away somewhere, drag

> it out and rededicated themselves to the real cause of their charge.

>

> Bill

[Guest guest]

The sick and dying are considered " acceptable losses " until such time as those

losses cause political damage to the careers of generals and politicians. The

casualties will mount. The DOD cannot be trusted to keep an accurate count.

n

Colley wrote:

> From: Colley <wecbac@...>

>

> Dr. Nass,

>

> The monetary and financial incentive to force this vaccine on us is one of my

> taller soap boxes that I get up on. What else could it be? It can't be for

> our health and well being, there are too many people getting sick and growing

> unwanted golf ball to tennis ball size lumps at the injection site. It can't

> be for the protection, there is no evidence that it will protect us from this

> spore, especially since there are so many different anthrax varieties. It can

> be because there are millions to be made from this scam. People will do

> anything for money, even take lives. It is sad that a group of our former

> leaders have taken up the cause to make money at the expense of the military

> that they once commanded. The oath to protect and maintain the health and

> well being of their troops must have retired with them as well. As for the

> ones still in, they must have skipped that part of their ritual. Maybe, some

> of them will look around and find that conscience tucked away somewhere, drag

> it out and rededicated themselves to the real cause of their charge.

>

> Bill

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/27/99 3:41:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Randice1@...

writes:

<< Why weaken or break down a defense with no other course of reacting if

something should occur? >>

Dear Servicemember:

Perhaps our nation's leaders believe we need a home defense force capable of

dealing with domestic biological attack on our civilian populace?

I've yet to see this theory debated publicly, but since we obviously have DOD

review of our posts, I feel it's worthwhile to open up the dialogue and

debate.

The entire issue comes down to forthrightness. If you want to promote a

program, do it by telling the troops straight -- " just the facts. " The

troops will do the rest -- their duty.

Make it optional, and tell the troops, " your country needs you. " If we get

nailed with a biological attack in the US, we want our troops to be able to

help other Americans.

With this kind of candor, I'm sure the troops would also be offered the best

possible vaccine America's tax dollars could buy. Today's shot is simply a

placebo.

I throw this out for food for thought. Obviously the DOD's PR tactics are

deplorable to date need to be revisited. Perhaps leveling with the troops

might be a good start.

From that point an optional policy, teamed with the best force protection

vaccine possible for the troops, might actually make a policy like the AVIP a

huge success.

Of course the doctrinal dialogue should continue, as the true answer for a

biological warfare defense is not a medial protection against singular

biological threats.

The true comprehensive way of protecting the troops is external gear,

vehicles and shelters against all threats. It's expensive, but it's the

right thing to do if you're committed.

I'm in this for the troops. I am one. And I'm committed to do what's right

for my nation and fellow servicemembers.

Capt. L. " Buzz " Rempfer

[Guest guest]

Just for hypothetical consideration,

Once we have taken ours they can then claim the AVIP has been successfully,

and " Routinely " used by hundreds of thousands with " Little " adverse

reactions (at least as little reported as allowed by the DoD). Then all

those outbreaks of letters and packages sent to offices etc that allege to

contain Anthrax will lead to a demand for such a benign vaccine for the

general population, with a large increase in profits for whoever holds the

source of the shots.

Notice all the civilian reports of mail alleged to contain Anthrax have died

out for the time being. They don't want to risk the added attention right

now. I think we are having some good effect on the entire issue.

Dave

Re: Could this be the driving force behind the AVIP?

From: Randice1@...

The theory behind the AVIP in respects to the driving boost of a

multimillion

industry in pharmaceutical makes sense in the financial approach. What does

not make sense however in my feeble mind is the approach that is going on if

the theory be correct. Why use them (experimental vaccines) on healthy

military personnel for civilians? The reason I ask this question is that it

is not the civilians who defend the nation, it is the military personnel.

Why weaken or break down a defense with no other course of reacting if

something should occur? I ask these questions for hopes of a logical

explanation, as I am writing this, I can't believe I am asking after looking

into past history, all I can ask is " why? " It just doesn't make sense, but

yet is becoming a little x-filish.

[Guest guest]

Just for hypothetical consideration,

Once we have taken ours they can then claim the AVIP has been successfully,

and " Routinely " used by hundreds of thousands with " Little " adverse

reactions (at least as little reported as allowed by the DoD). Then all

those outbreaks of letters and packages sent to offices etc that allege to

contain Anthrax will lead to a demand for such a benign vaccine for the

general population, with a large increase in profits for whoever holds the

source of the shots.

Notice all the civilian reports of mail alleged to contain Anthrax have died

out for the time being. They don't want to risk the added attention right

now. I think we are having some good effect on the entire issue.

Dave

Re: Could this be the driving force behind the AVIP?

From: Randice1@...

The theory behind the AVIP in respects to the driving boost of a

multimillion

industry in pharmaceutical makes sense in the financial approach. What does

not make sense however in my feeble mind is the approach that is going on if

the theory be correct. Why use them (experimental vaccines) on healthy

military personnel for civilians? The reason I ask this question is that it

is not the civilians who defend the nation, it is the military personnel.

Why weaken or break down a defense with no other course of reacting if

something should occur? I ask these questions for hopes of a logical

explanation, as I am writing this, I can't believe I am asking after looking

into past history, all I can ask is " why? " It just doesn't make sense, but

yet is becoming a little x-filish.

[Guest guest]

Shelters, biosuits, etc. could not possibly be provided for all civilians,

and therefore the government would want (order?) civilians to accept

anthrax vaccination (and whatever else they deemed appropriate).

Therefore, to withhold the vaccine from the military but administer it to

civilians (or try to) would give them a major headache.