Re: Which Vitamin C??/Reply from Dr. Abram Hoffer.

[Guest guest]

Hi All, I have been reading with interest the debate on the

absorbtion and utilization of different vitamin C salts. I forwarded

some of the postings to Dr. Hoffer, one of the pioneers of Vitamin C

reserarch and Orthomolecular medicine against cancer. He replied to

me by email and I am posting his comments below.

Warm wishes to you all.

His email:

Dear Mr :

Biochemically it should make no difference which vitamin C

is

used. From a theoretical point of view the mineral ascorbates are

probably

better since hydrogen ascorbate( vitamin C) is never found in this

form in

the body but is associated with some anion. It is certainly true

that the

vitamin C present in plant materials is associated with these other

substances but this has no bearing on on the argument since from

these

natural sources one can never get enough. If one wants there other

nutrients added it is simple to do so .The question is, is vitamin

C

alone( in any form) less good than the same vitamin C in association

with

other nutrients.

I do not involved in chat groups as it is too time

consuming

and often too argumentative

A. Hoffer

>

> > Dear Mickey & List: I disagree with the statement that the type

of C

> > doesn't matter... Chemicall made Ascorbic Acid from glucose is

not the

> > same as what is found in natuaral matrix.

>

> Hi,

> I suddenly realized that people may have completely missed

the point as to why I

> said it doesn't matter what type of Vitamin C one takes.

> Let me explain. Imagine that you are a non smoker (smoking

destroys vitamin C) and take

> 1gm of cheap sodium ascorbate every day. Much of that 1gm will not

be used by the body

> and will be excreted each day.

> Imagine that another person took 1gm of expensive ester C with

bioflavinoids, which is

> more bio available due to its natural form. Still this person will

excrete much of the

> vitamin C, not due to the fact that it is not absorbed but due to

the fact that it is not

> utilized by the body.

> Recent evidence which I uncovered, shows that it is COLONY

STIMULATING FACTOR (CSF)

> that determines how much Vitamin C that our body uses to make

cancer killing chemicals.

>

> The CSF is made by activated macrophages and not made by normal

macrophages.

>

> So normally we dont make much CSF and hence dont utilize much

Vitamin C regardless of

> what form it comes in or how bioavailable it is.

>

> Imagine now that you continue to take 1gm cheap sodium ascorbate

and also begin to

> take beta glucan. The other person still takes the 1gm of expensive

ester C with

> bioflavinoids, but does not activate macrophages with beta glucan.

>

> Soon your excrection of vitamin C by the kidneys will diminish

and uptake by the body

> through the effect of the CSF, will greatly increase. Perhaps all

of the 1gm you take

> will now be utilized by the body, the other person will not change

their level of CSF and

> so their kidneys will continue to excrete much of their ester C.

>

> Now you have an advantage using the cheap sodium ascorbate over

the person who takes

> expensive ester C with bioflavinoids. Your body is now utilizing

more Vitamin C and

> making more cancer killing chemicals from the vitamin C, than the

person who took the

> ester C but did not activate their macrophages.

>

> Now if the other person was to activate their macrophages with

beta glucan and also

> take expensive ester C with bioflavionoids, then maybe their would

then gain a slight

> advantage over you.

>

> So if the macrophages are not activated with beta glucan, then

taking expensive ester

> C with bioflavinoids would be a waste of money.

>

> moonbeam

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Vitamin C in Nature if found as

> > a complex which includes bioflavanoids and vitamin K and minerals

like

> > selenium I believe. I have patients do 2 things: 1. Purchase

Acerola

> > Berry 4:1 Concentrate Powder from Starwest Botanicals &

encapsulate it in

> > -00- caps 2. Use either our buffered effervescent Beet C (Esther-

C) or

> > Sodium Ascorbate or Lipisomal Beet C 3. Take Wheat Germ daily.

There

> > seems to be factors in wheat germ (may be in rice germ too), 2

Tbl. Albert

> > discovered that it seems to be more effective with the wheat germ

(maybe

> > because of what we know know about glucans...) that alone... 4.

Those

> > cancer patients taking my Betacan™ powder, use 3 grams of C

complex for

> > every 1 gram of Beta...some of them mix it into their cottage

> > cheese/yogure/flaxoil 2x/day.

> >

> > Nobel winner Dr. Albert Szent- Gyorgyi did the landmark work on

this, and

> > wrote a paper called " Electronics of Biology of Cancer " which

shows that

> > cancer is a free radical problem at the base...

> >

> > Here's an excellent book on C from the Vitamin C Foundation--it

was

> > written by Irving Stone, who worked with both Linus ing and

Albert

> > Szent-Gyorgyi... NOTE: you have to scroll down the page to read

it.

> > Whoever put it up obviously didn't have Adobe Acrobat to make it

into a

> > PDF file...

> >

> > http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/healing.html

> >

> > Here'a also some reference links from our website. I have an

effervescent

> > buffered form of Beet-extracted C (rather than corn) as well as a

> > lipisomal C which allows you to get high doses without gastric

upset and

> > diarrhea, and which we replace I.V. therapy with for patients

unable to

> > come in for a high-dose C drip...

http://www.arrowheadhealthworks.com

> >

> > http://www.arrowheadhealthworks.com/lipo_C.htm

> > http://www.arrowheadhealthworks.com/Hi_Ctx.htm

> > http://lpi.orst.edu/new/vitamincancer2.html

> >

> > Hope it's helpful to Mickey and others...

> >

> > Dr.Bormann

> > ********************

> >

> > moonbeam@e... wrote:

> >

> > > <cures for cancer@y...>

> > > From: " micky " <a..k@h...>

> > > Date sent: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:42:05 -0400

> > > Send reply to: cures for cancer@y...

> > > Subject: Which Vitamin C??

> > > > Which vitamin C should one take, some posting suggest mega

dosage of

> > > > vitami= n C (Ascorbic acid) others say High Dose Vitamin C

(Natural

> > > > Ascorbates, NOT ASCORBIC, which is = toxic)=20 Any advice

would be

> > > > greatly appreciate. micky

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > > Normally one excretes most of the vitamin C that one

takes,

> > > soon after one takes

> > > it. In such a case it does not matter much what sort of vitamin

C one

> > > takes as it simply will be quicky excreted by the kidneys from

the body.

> > > People try and overcome this by taking special forms of slow

release

> > > vitamin C, but doing this does not help to increase Vitamin C

uptake.

> > >

> > > Yet if one activates the macrophages with beta glucan,

then those

> > > macrophages will

> > > produce Colony Stimulating Factor which then causes the body to

uptake

> > > and utilise much more vitamin C than one normally would. It

causes

> > > increased utilisation of vitamin C, regardless of what type of

vitamin C

> > > is taken.

> > > Personally I would take sodium ascorbate, as it is cheap,

tastes OK

> > > and is

> > > bioavailable.

> > >

> > > Reference 1.

> > >

> > > Reference 1

> > > Blood 1998 Apr 1;91(7):2536-46 Vera JC, Rivas CI, Zhang RH,

> > > Colony-stimulating factors signal for increased transport of

vitamin C

> > > in human host defense cells.

> > >

> > > moonbeam

> > >

> > > Get HUGE info at http://www.cures for cancer.ws, and post your own

links

> > > there. Unsubscribe by sending email to

> > > cures for cancer-unsubscribeegroups or by visiting

> > > http://www.bobhurt.com/subunsub.mv

> > >

> > >