Re: Protein needs for people with cancer

[Guest guest]

,

Are you saying tofu, spirulina, chorella, and beans may not be enough.

(Gasp!) What other sources do you suggest? I know you were referring to the

level of protein in cancer patients, but protein is an issue for most

vegetarians as well.

Are you saying there may be a correlation between protein levels and cancer?

Or that the protein needs may be higher.

....bright moments.

[Guest guest]

Ummm, yes, I'm saying more than that actually. There may well be a need

for some (*holds breath til incoming stones settle*) animal proteins (from

clean, organic, hormone free sources).

The reason that excessive use of protein is an issue, is that it requires

so much from the body in the form of enzymes and minerals for proper

assimilation. If you use a lot of animal proteins, you will need a lot of

mineral supplementation.

Also, animal proteins will wear out the kidneys whose job is to alkalize

the blood, remove urea from the urine, etc, etc, etc...of all the organs,

the kidneys are the most important to ME. They may not be to you, but

spend some time in with people in hospic, and watching people die of kidney

failure is common place. Not my choice of exit from this world.

When it comes to healing, we have to get the elimanition figured out.

That's colon,kidneys, skin and lungs.

Isn't it crazy that we are having to learn how to eat all over again?

How much do we eat, and what do we eat? These are all questions that you

will get conflicting advice on depending on who you read or listen to.

Science is coming a long way in helping us with those answers.

You want ME to say what source of protein is BEST? And how much, and when?

Aside from the info that's already been shared here. Let me say that this

question is going to be different for every person. If it's tru that it's

high protein for people with cancer or other acute diseases, this is going

to be big news for the alternative community who has been saying just the

opposite.

I think that science is coming up with some of the answers, and we need to

know what they are, who funded them, and what that means to us personally.

I also believe (this is starting to sound like a personal manifesto <G>),

that if we are using supplements like protein, and we are using too much,

or too little, we should be tested for it. If that service is readily

available, and it is.

When I attended training with Dr. Gumbel, in Canada, in the therapeutic use

of essential oils, it because increasingly clear, that using one oil, over

and over and over, would be incredibly harmful to the body, energetically.

Yet this is precisely what people are doing. We want to sell more and more

of our favorite product, because we are marketing minded Americans, that

say, " if a little is good, then more is better. " But that's not true. A

little salt will tonify and too much will weaken. Everything must be

balanced to be effective.

In the same light, too much protein is as harmful as not enough.

My question again, is simply, what are the protein needs of people in acute

conditions and in the more chronic condition of cancer? At what point are

they needing less or more? How do we evaluate this?

We are being told that natural products are always safe. That is simply

not true from an energetics point of view. We are consuming energy and

fuel for the body. An imbalance of this " energy " or life force is going to

weaken some opposing aspect of the body.

Weakened kidneys makes for a weakened heart. That's not mush or

pedagogery, it's the truth. Healthy kidneys beget a healthy heart....

that's the key. Clean the blood....keep it clear, and it nourishes the

whole body.

I'm not trying to oversimplify this, just share my perspective. Again,

it's my belief that we need a correct foundation and theoretical model to

build from (that's my INTJ personality), damning all the sacred cows.

he he he... I don't give a rat's a** about preserving the status quo, or

vegans philosophies, or even legislating morality or social issues. All I

really care about is some straight answers to clear questions.

How much protein do I need before I invest in a protein heavy diet? It's

my life and it matters.

Be well,

PS... fun personality

test....http://209.172.67.12/Advisorteam/User/Test/kcs.asp

At 11:51 AM 01/26/2000 EST, you wrote:

>,

>

>Are you saying tofu, spirulina, chorella, and beans may not be enough.

>(Gasp!) What other sources do you suggest? I know you were referring to the

>level of protein in cancer patients, but protein is an issue for most

>vegetarians as well.

>

>Are you saying there may be a correlation between protein levels and cancer?

>Or that the protein needs may be higher.

>

>...bright moments.

>

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[Guest guest]

I would like to be tested for protein.

In Love & Light,

[Guest guest]

My health coach agrees that I need to eat protein in form of lima beans,

lentiles, peas. I sprout peas and lentiles to keep in the raw zone.

I dont like lima. I've also been using tempeh and seem to have a

craving for it. In my health drink there is soy powders.

Im conflicted having thought soy was not so good, and concerned that if

it is not organic it may be genetically engineered. I've been using

Braggs amino acids for flavor on salads but concerned if that is wise.

Health coach says a little is ok.

Webster wrote:

,

Hope you don't mind that I'm asking this question in the public forum, but

there may be some stray person out there that can contribute too.

The question is that I am finding that protein needs of people with cancer

are HIGHER than in general population. Do you see this too? How are they

doing this in clinics?

It's an interesting conumdrum because we are trying to limit the amount of

animal proteins in diet, and the body is unable to efficiently process

animal proteins (due in part from a lack of enzyme and mineral reserves),

BUT the body needs additional protein (ok, Debbie, relax, yes, this means

that this is probably the BIGGEST reason why whey becomes an important part

of the cancer diet).

Now, before everyone starts to stone me, what I'm looking for is, are you

aware of the higher protein needs of persons with cancer? Can you add

anything in that vein, that I'm not aware of?

Personally, it has been my goal to REDUCE my protein intake. UNTIL I was

tested and it was determined that I needed an astronomical 54 grams of

protein a day. I have to share that this goes against what we know as

naturopaths. BUT I'm feeling MUCH better. There's more that I could say,

but I'll reserve that for later.

So, what say you, ? I've recently started testing more people, and

their protein requirements are coming out higher. Does this represent a

shift in our thinking? Or is this one of those secrets the clinics keep

from us? How are they dealing with the protein needs? Beans are not

enough, sorry.

Thanks for your input.

Be well,

PS. If anyone wants to be tested for their protein needs, email me.

Visit http://cures for cancer.evangelist.net

for cancer info or to unsubscribe

eGroups.com Home: cures for cancer

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[Guest guest]

,

Your theoretical question on protein intake and its measurement is very

intriguing. I hope in your practice you are also noting the correlatin of

" protein needs " and blood type?

The reason I put protein needs in parenthesis is: do we really know that

the measured requirement is in fact a valid reflection of real protein

needs or is it just a high tech measurement that rationalizes how we feel?

My gut feeling which is influenced by my personal predisposition to

emphasize the more natural and kidney sparing use of less protein., is

probably more important. But there probably are individual differences that

make my personally favored hypothesis not true for all people.

It reminds me of the saying " there is more we don't know than we know " Your

research might significantly add to our body of nutrtional knowledge.

I'd be interested in a protein level test.

Thank you for your thoughtful and questioning view of natural health

processes.

It's a real feature I look forward to.

Best of health,

Arnold Gore

Consumers Health Freedom Coalition

Protein needs for people with cancer

> ,

>

> Hope you don't mind that I'm asking this question in the public forum, but

> there may be some stray person out there that can contribute too.

>

> The question is that I am finding that protein needs of people with cancer

> are HIGHER than in general population. Do you see this too? How are they

> doing this in clinics?

>

> It's an interesting conumdrum because we are trying to limit the amount of

> animal proteins in diet, and the body is unable to efficiently process

> animal proteins (due in part from a lack of enzyme and mineral reserves),

> BUT the body needs additional protein (ok, Debbie, relax, yes, this means

> that this is probably the BIGGEST reason why whey becomes an important

part

> of the cancer diet).

>

> Now, before everyone starts to stone me, what I'm looking for is, are you

> aware of the higher protein needs of persons with cancer? Can you add

> anything in that vein, that I'm not aware of?

>

> Personally, it has been my goal to REDUCE my protein intake. UNTIL I was

> tested and it was determined that I needed an astronomical 54 grams of

> protein a day. I have to share that this goes against what we know as

> naturopaths. BUT I'm feeling MUCH better. There's more that I could say,

> but I'll reserve that for later.

>

> So, what say you, ? I've recently started testing more people, and

> their protein requirements are coming out higher. Does this represent a

> shift in our thinking? Or is this one of those secrets the clinics keep

> from us? How are they dealing with the protein needs? Beans are not

> enough, sorry.

>

> Thanks for your input.

>

> Be well,

>

>

> PS. If anyone wants to be tested for their protein needs, email me.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Visit http://cures for cancer.evangelist.net for cancer info or to unsubscribe

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>

[Guest guest]

http://www.metametrix.com evaluates the urine based of factors of

metabolism, not how you feel.

They look at how your body is using nutrition, not only looking at a single

factor, such as blood type.

Dysbiosis Metabolic Markers, S. Lord

(http://www.metametrix.com/articles/artcl_dmm.htm)

Overgrowth of bacteria and yeast in the gut is

associated with

numerous overt and latent human diseases. The

detection of such

" dysbiotic " conditions is best done by measuring the

levels of the

specific products of microbial activity that appear in

the urine. The

patterns reflect the type of organisms that are

present within broad

categories of either bacteria and protozoal or yeast

and fungi.

Treatment options include aggressive antibiotics,

natural substances for

microbial control, digestive aids, and nutritional

support for mucosal

healing.

Organics in Urine: Assessment of Gut Dysbiosis, Nutrient Deficiencies and

Toxemia, J. Bralley and S. Lord

(http://www.metametrix.com/articles/artcl_uoa.htm)

The measurement of organic acids and neutrals in urine

allows the

simultaneous assessment of mitochondrial energy

production efficiency,

functional vitamin, mineral and certain amino acid

deficiencies,

neurotransmitter metabolism, clinically significant

microflora imbalances

in the gut, and metabolic toxicity problems.

So, as you can see Al, what they are doing is looking beyond factors

related to only blood type, as Body Typing refers to.

Hope this helps.

Be well,

At 07:26 AM 01/27/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>,

>Your theoretical question on protein intake and its measurement is very

>intriguing. I hope in your practice you are also noting the correlatin of

> " protein needs " and blood type?

>

>The reason I put protein needs in parenthesis is: do we really know that

>the measured requirement is in fact a valid reflection of real protein

>needs or is it just a high tech measurement that rationalizes how we feel?

>

>My gut feeling which is influenced by my personal predisposition to

>emphasize the more natural and kidney sparing use of less protein., is

>probably more important. But there probably are individual differences that

>make my personally favored hypothesis not true for all people.

>

>It reminds me of the saying " there is more we don't know than we know " Your

>research might significantly add to our body of nutrtional knowledge.

>

>I'd be interested in a protein level test.

>

>Thank you for your thoughtful and questioning view of natural health

>processes.

>It's a real feature I look forward to.

> Best of health,

> Arnold Gore

> Consumers Health Freedom Coalition

>

>

> Protein needs for people with cancer

>

>

>> ,

>>

>> Hope you don't mind that I'm asking this question in the public forum, but

>> there may be some stray person out there that can contribute too.

>>

>> The question is that I am finding that protein needs of people with cancer

>> are HIGHER than in general population. Do you see this too? How are they

>> doing this in clinics?

>>

>> It's an interesting conumdrum because we are trying to limit the amount of

>> animal proteins in diet, and the body is unable to efficiently process

>> animal proteins (due in part from a lack of enzyme and mineral reserves),

>> BUT the body needs additional protein (ok, Debbie, relax, yes, this means

>> that this is probably the BIGGEST reason why whey becomes an important

>part

>> of the cancer diet).

>>

>> Now, before everyone starts to stone me, what I'm looking for is, are you

>> aware of the higher protein needs of persons with cancer? Can you add

>> anything in that vein, that I'm not aware of?

>>

>> Personally, it has been my goal to REDUCE my protein intake. UNTIL I was

>> tested and it was determined that I needed an astronomical 54 grams of

>> protein a day. I have to share that this goes against what we know as

>> naturopaths. BUT I'm feeling MUCH better. There's more that I could say,

>> but I'll reserve that for later.

>>

>> So, what say you, ? I've recently started testing more people, and

>> their protein requirements are coming out higher. Does this represent a

>> shift in our thinking? Or is this one of those secrets the clinics keep

>> from us? How are they dealing with the protein needs? Beans are not

>> enough, sorry.

>>

>> Thanks for your input.

>>

>> Be well,

>>

>>

>> PS. If anyone wants to be tested for their protein needs, email me.

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> Visit http://cures for cancer.evangelist.net for cancer info or to unsubscribe

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> Save 50% at MotherNature.com! See site for details.

>> 1/766/5/_/378/_/948898668/

>>

>> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault

>> -- docvault/cures for cancer/?m=1

>>

>>

>

>

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>

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01/26/2000 9:02:14 AM Central Standard Time,

michelle@... writes:

<< Now, before everyone starts to stone me, what I'm looking for is, are you

aware of the higher protein needs of persons with cancer? Can you add

anything in that vein, that I'm not aware of? >>

,

I will give you my opinion on this. I don't know where or how I came to

have this as my understanding, I may have read it somewhere, heard in a

lecture, or put it together myself but here it goes. Some of this I went

back and found in my nursing books but this is how I see it relates to cancer.

When a person is sick or has a disease the body is trying to fight, the

body's energy needs increases. If these needs are not meet through diet or

some form of supplementation, the body will start using what ever it has

stored or whatever it can use immediately to meet those energy needs. (This

is another reason people should not be adding to the body's list of " things

to do " by using products with toxins etc. because it diverts the body's

energy from its principal battle at the time which is cancer, it adds an

increased strain on an already " stressed " system). When supplies of

carbohydrates and fats are insufficient to provide the neeeded energy, amino

acids are oxidized by different metabolic pathways. Amino acids are the

building blocks that make proteins, so proteins are being broken down for

energy at this point. The body is now in a state of catabolic metabolism

which is the metabolic process by which large molecules are broken down into

smaller ones. This is why you see the higher protein needs in cases of

cancer, I believe. If the protein loss continues these individuals will

start developing generalized edema also and the problems just start

multiplying.

Foods rich in proteins include meats, fish, poultry, cheese, nuts, milk,

eggs, and cereals. Various legumes, such as beans and peas, contain lesser

amounts of proteins. Also taking a liquid vitamin, mineral whole food

complex that contains amino acid complex also. Liquid is more bioavailable

to the body and has a higher rate of absorption.

- do you test the blood or the urine for the protein or both?

Belinda