Re: People dying with AIDS

[Guest guest]

At 06:21 PM 09/02/2001 -0700, you wrote:

>

>YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.. I see quilts on TV with names... I have

>heard of folks through the media but never known anyone personally. I do

>not believe that I am unique here.

Well, I know many people who are diagnosed with " AIDS " and many I knew very

well who did DIE. I don't agree AIDS =HIV. But people are dying in this

country of this set of symptoms that is named AIDS by the medical

establishment. And of course as a nurse in hospitals saw many cases. But

do know many personally sorry to say.

Sheri

>----- Original Message -----

>From: Lashanna Small <lashannasmall@...>

>

>> You said- " It is really amazing that I, in my 49 years of life have never

>> heard of one case of measles that resulted in death...; and nor has my 81

>> year old mother known of such a thing. "

>>

>> My husband was saying the same thing about AIDS. If so many people were

>> dying from it, than everyone should know at least one person who died from

>> AIDS and we do not know any.

>>

>From: " Phyllis " <georgic@...>

>

>>article to get all of us " vaccine crazies " to " hop to it " and get our kids

>> >vaccinated for the new school year... The numbers of deaths that they

>list

>> >are associated to Measles " Worldwide " is an amazing number. If this

>rate

>> >was real and the numbers that they quote are correct, the population

>> >explosion would surely be under control in just a few years.. It is

>really

>> >amazing that I, in my 49 years of life have never heard of one case of

>> >measles that resulted in death...; and nor has my 81 year old mother

>known

>> >of such a thing.

>> >

>> >I also just love the way they bring up the numbers of cases of whooping

>> >cough that appeared after the vaccines were discontinued in England and

>> >then Japan, but they never list the drop in the rates of juvenile

>diabetes,

>> >asthma, learning disabilites, autism, cancers and seizure disorders that

>> >were life long in these victims of the whooping cough. There is never a

>> >list of the long term health benefits of experiencing the disease over

>the

>> >side-effects of the vaccines... Well certainly not. They do not claim

>> >to have seen a corelation between the vaccines and any long term side

>> >effects.. Why would they.. This paper is paid big bucks by the

>> >pharmaceutical industry to print their propaganda. Have a good read...

>> >Comments to the list, are certainly well received... so please make your

>> >own assuptions.

>> > Today's NewsPast WeekPast 30 DaysPast 90 DaysPast

> August 30, 2001

>> >

>> > Study Clears Two Vaccines of Any Long-Lasting Harm

>> > By PHILIP J. HILTS

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > Find additional information by selecting from the

>> >following topics.

>> >

>> > Vaccination and Immunizations

>> > Children and Youth

>> > Medicine and Health

>> > DTP or MMR

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > lthough two widely used vaccines can make children run

>fevers

>> >that in rare cases may cause seizures, the seizures do not lead to

>lasting

>> >problems, researchers are reporting today in the largest study ever done

>on

>> >the side effects of vaccination.

>> >

>> > The findings come against a backdrop of recurring fears, in

>> >the United States and abroad, that those rare fever-related seizures may

>be

>> >linked to later autism and developmental problems. The fears are

>unfounded,

>> >the study concluded.

>> >

>> > " This study is very reassuring, " said Dr. Karin , a

>> >child neurologist at the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and

>> >Stroke, who was not involved in the research. " It is very large, it

>> >confirms the studies that we have done before, and it goes farther in

>> >following up children to show there are not additional problems after

>> >vaccination. "

>> >

>> > The study, being published today in The New England Journal

>of

>> >Medicine, looked at medical data for 639,000 children, about 2 percent of

>> >all the nation's children under the age of 7. It found that those who got

>> >the vaccines and then experienced seizures had no more chance of further

>> >seizures or neurological problems later than those who did not have

>> >seizures after being vaccinated.

>> >

>> > Two vaccines were studied: one given to prevent diphtheria,

>> >tetanus and pertussis (or whooping cough), and so called DTP, and the

>other

>> >to prevent measles, mumps and rubella (or German measles), called MMR.

>> >

>> > The study was far larger than previous such work, and, in

>> >their effort to determine whether seizures caused by high fevers after

>> >vaccination, known as febrile seizures, had any long-term effects, the

>> >researchers followed a majority of the children past the age of 6. That

>was

>> >typically five years after the first of the vaccinations was given, and

>> >three to four years after the second.

>> >

>> > " We didn't find any evidence of later problems up to that

>age,

>> >so we think we would have spotted it if something else had occurred, "

>said

>> >the lead author, Dr. L. of the University of Washington in

>> >Seattle, who worked with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

>in

>> >producing the study.

>> >

>> > Children in the study were vaccinated from 1991 to 1993. The

>> >form of DTP vaccine that they received, which apparently caused rare

>> >febrile seizures, is no longer used in the United States. It has been

>> >replaced by a form called DTaP, which studies suggest has one-third or

>> >fewer of the side effects of the older type.

>> >

>> > Previous studies had shown that in rare cases DTP and MMR

>> >caused children to have high fevers, as well as febrile seizures that

>> >lasted from a few seconds to 15 minutes. But febrile seizures are fairly

>> >common in children even without vaccination, occurring in about 4 percent

>> >of them by the time they have passed through adolescence.

>> >

>> > " The seizures come on when fever is high, " Dr. said,

>> > " and it is a terrifying event for the families to have a young child

>> >convulse and then look as if they are dead. But terrifying as they are,

>> >they are not dangerous in terms of causing problems later. "

>> >

>> > Of all the children in the study, only 63 had experienced

>> >febrile seizures after being vaccinated; 521 had had such seizures as a

>> >result of illnesses not related to vaccination.

>> >

>> > Seizures not connected to a fever are much more worrisome

>than

>> >febrile seizures, Dr. and Dr. said. These seizures are

>> >sometimes linked to disorders like epilepsy and mental retardation. The

>> >study found that between those children who got febrile fevers and those

>> >who did not, the rate of nonfebrile seizures was no different.

>> >

>> > " This study, " Dr. said, " is useful because it gives a

>> >clearer picture, and greater confidence that vaccines are not associated

>> >with nonfebrile seizures. "

>> >

>> > Concern and debate over the safety of DTP and MMR have

>flared

>> >in the United States, Britain and elsewhere recently, and periodically

>> >during the last 30 years. Indeed, fears about them have caused some

>parents

>> >to avoid vaccinating their children, a decision with sometimes disastrous

>> >results. Large outbreaks of disease have followed the drops in

>vaccination

>> >in several countries, and smaller outbreaks of measles and whooping cough

>> >have occurred in some American communities.

>> >

>> > For example, studies have shown that anti-vaccination

>> >arguments by some doctors in Britain three decades ago brought a huge

>drop

>> >in vaccination there, to 30 percent of all children from 80 percent in

>just

>> >a few years. What resulted was an epidemic of 100,000 cases of whooping

>> >cough, with at least 34 deaths. (This is .034% Phyllis placed this

>> >here.)

>> >

>> > In Japan, a similar drop in vaccination resulted in a 1979

>> >epidemic of 13,000 cases and 41 deaths. (This is .315% Phylllis placed

>> >this here)

>> >

>> > Dr. Chen, an epidemiologist at the Centers for

>Disease

>> >Control and Prevention, said such epidemics were an unintended

>consequence

>> >of " mature vaccination programs " that have nearly eradicated many

>diseases

>> >in developed countries, creating a sense of complacency in doctors and

>> >parents who have no personal experience with the diseases the vaccines

>can

>> >prevent.

>> >

>> > Many parents today do not realize how serious diseases like

>> >measles and whooping cough can be. Around the world, in countries where

>> >vaccines are not available, almost 900,000 children a year die of

>measles.

>> >(This would be a very large drop in the population throughout the world

>if

>> >this, indeed, were a yealy rate of deaths. Where do they get these

>> >numbers?... Phyllis placed this here.)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have been a volunteer for an AIDS charity off and on.....

When they did a bit of training with us, we were told that AIDS is what you

are classed as having when you have more than a few HIV related

symptoms......

There are about 25 different symptoms(<---not sure if this is the right word

really...) on a list that you can develop related to HIV, e.g. pneumonia.

These can come and go, off and on etc. but (apparently) when you have more

than a few 'symptoms' from this list then you are CLASSED as having AIDS.

That, we were told, is the only difference between the two.........

SUE,Ruby(2)

Wales,UK

[Guest guest]

Duesberg said in his book, that if you have kaposi's sacrcoma and are

HIV positive, you have AIDS, but if you have kaposi's sarcoma, and aren't

HIV positive, you have kaposi's sarcoma. If you have TB and are HIV

positive you have AIDS, if you have TB and aren't HIV positive, you have TB.

Etc.

Clearly people have been sick and are dying. The question is what are they

dying from. According to Duesberg and many scientists, including at

least one Nobel prize winner, there has never been a study proving

HIV(whatever that is) has anything do with AIDS (whatever that is). All the

other " studies " grew out of a rumor, really, that there had been such a

study. And since the money betted on that notion, that's where all the

subsequent researchers went.

Sandy

ALL INFORMATION, DATA, AND MATERIAL CONTAINED, PRESENTED, OR PROVIDED HERE

IS FOR GENERAL INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS

REFLECTING THE KNOWLEDGE OR OPINIONS OF THE PUBLISHER, AND IS NOT TO BE

CONSTRUED OR INTENDED AS PROVIDING MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION

WHETHER OR NOT TO VACCINATE IS AN IMPORTANT AND COMPLEX ISSUE AND SHOULD BE

MADE BY YOU, AND YOU ALONE, IN CONSULTATION WITH YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

Re: People dying with " AIDS "

I have been a volunteer for an AIDS charity off and on.....

When they did a bit of training with us, we were told that AIDS is what you

are classed as having when you have more than a few HIV related

symptoms......

There are about 25 different symptoms(<---not sure if this is the right word

really...) on a list that you can develop related to HIV, e.g. pneumonia.

These can come and go, off and on etc. but (apparently) when you have more

than a few 'symptoms' from this list then you are CLASSED as having AIDS.

That, we were told, is the only difference between the two.........

SUE,Ruby(2)

Wales,UK

[Guest guest]

And again, the symptoms ahve never been proven to be related to HIV

although that is what they tell you

but there are definitely people with symptoms that fit into the medical

category of AIDS.

At 03:19 PM 09/03/2001 +0100, you wrote:

>

>I have been a volunteer for an AIDS charity off and on.....

>When they did a bit of training with us, we were told that AIDS is what you

>are classed as having when you have more than a few HIV related

>symptoms......

>There are about 25 different symptoms(<---not sure if this is the right word

>really...) on a list that you can develop related to HIV, e.g. pneumonia.

>These can come and go, off and on etc. but (apparently) when you have more

>than a few 'symptoms' from this list then you are CLASSED as having AIDS.

>That, we were told, is the only difference between the two.........

>

>SUE,Ruby(2)

>Wales,UK

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I dont know of any actual proof....I just shared what we were told at

training sessions.

And Sandy saying if you are HIV positive and have certain conditions

(<---thats the word I was after before)

you are classed as having AIDS is what I was trying to say! Thanks Sandy. We

learnt how ridiculous it was that after having so many (certain) conditions

you then officially had AIDS......

Confusing.......

SUE, Ruby(2)

Wales,UK

[Guest guest]

I still do not feel it is an " epidimic " as they are always saying.

>From: Sheri Nakken <vaccineinfo@...>

>Reply-Vaccinations

>Vaccinations

>Subject: Re: People dying with " AIDS "

>Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 12:49:01 +0100

>

>At 06:21 PM 09/02/2001 -0700, you wrote:

> >

> >YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.. I see quilts on TV with names... I have

> >heard of folks through the media but never known anyone personally. I

>do

> >not believe that I am unique here.

>

>Well, I know many people who are diagnosed with " AIDS " and many I knew very

>well who did DIE. I don't agree AIDS =HIV. But people are dying in this

>country of this set of symptoms that is named AIDS by the medical

>establishment. And of course as a nurse in hospitals saw many cases. But

>do know many personally sorry to say.

>Sheri

>

> >----- Original Message -----

> >From: Lashanna Small <lashannasmall@...>

> >

> >> You said- " It is really amazing that I, in my 49 years of life have

>never

> >> heard of one case of measles that resulted in death...; and nor has my

>81

> >> year old mother known of such a thing. "

> >>

> >> My husband was saying the same thing about AIDS. If so many people

>were

> >> dying from it, than everyone should know at least one person who died

>from

> >> AIDS and we do not know any.

> >>

> >From: " Phyllis " <georgic@...>

> >

> >>article to get all of us " vaccine crazies " to " hop to it " and get our

>kids

> >> >vaccinated for the new school year... The numbers of deaths that they

> >list

> >> >are associated to Measles " Worldwide " is an amazing number. If this

> >rate

> >> >was real and the numbers that they quote are correct, the population

> >> >explosion would surely be under control in just a few years.. It is

> >really

> >> >amazing that I, in my 49 years of life have never heard of one case of

> >> >measles that resulted in death...; and nor has my 81 year old mother

> >known

> >> >of such a thing.

> >> >

> >> >I also just love the way they bring up the numbers of cases of

>whooping

> >> >cough that appeared after the vaccines were discontinued in England

>and

> >> >then Japan, but they never list the drop in the rates of juvenile

> >diabetes,

> >> >asthma, learning disabilites, autism, cancers and seizure disorders

>that

> >> >were life long in these victims of the whooping cough. There is

>never a

> >> >list of the long term health benefits of experiencing the disease over

> >the

> >> >side-effects of the vaccines... Well certainly not. They do not

>claim

> >> >to have seen a corelation between the vaccines and any long term side

> >> >effects.. Why would they.. This paper is paid big bucks by the

> >> >pharmaceutical industry to print their propaganda. Have a good

>read...

> >> >Comments to the list, are certainly well received... so please make

>your

> >> >own assuptions.

> >> > Today's NewsPast WeekPast 30 DaysPast 90 DaysPast

> > August 30, 2001

> >> >

> >> > Study Clears Two Vaccines of Any Long-Lasting Harm

> >> > By PHILIP J. HILTS

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Find additional information by selecting from the

> >> >following topics.

> >> >

> >> > Vaccination and Immunizations

> >> > Children and Youth

> >> > Medicine and Health

> >> > DTP or MMR

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > lthough two widely used vaccines can make children run

> >fevers

> >> >that in rare cases may cause seizures, the seizures do not lead to

> >lasting

> >> >problems, researchers are reporting today in the largest study ever

>done

> >on

> >> >the side effects of vaccination.

> >> >

> >> > The findings come against a backdrop of recurring fears,

>in

> >> >the United States and abroad, that those rare fever-related seizures

>may

> >be

> >> >linked to later autism and developmental problems. The fears are

> >unfounded,

> >> >the study concluded.

> >> >

> >> > " This study is very reassuring, " said Dr. Karin , a

> >> >child neurologist at the National Institute of Neurological Disorders

>and

> >> >Stroke, who was not involved in the research. " It is very large, it

> >> >confirms the studies that we have done before, and it goes farther in

> >> >following up children to show there are not additional problems after

> >> >vaccination. "

> >> >

> >> > The study, being published today in The New England

>Journal

> >of

> >> >Medicine, looked at medical data for 639,000 children, about 2 percent

>of

> >> >all the nation's children under the age of 7. It found that those who

>got

> >> >the vaccines and then experienced seizures had no more chance of

>further

> >> >seizures or neurological problems later than those who did not have

> >> >seizures after being vaccinated.

> >> >

> >> > Two vaccines were studied: one given to prevent

>diphtheria,

> >> >tetanus and pertussis (or whooping cough), and so called DTP, and the

> >other

> >> >to prevent measles, mumps and rubella (or German measles), called MMR.

> >> >

> >> > The study was far larger than previous such work, and, in

> >> >their effort to determine whether seizures caused by high fevers after

> >> >vaccination, known as febrile seizures, had any long-term effects, the

> >> >researchers followed a majority of the children past the age of 6.

>That

> >was

> >> >typically five years after the first of the vaccinations was given,

>and

> >> >three to four years after the second.

> >> >

> >> > " We didn't find any evidence of later problems up to that

> >age,

> >> >so we think we would have spotted it if something else had occurred, "

> >said

> >> >the lead author, Dr. L. of the University of Washington

>in

> >> >Seattle, who worked with the Centers for Disease Control and

>Prevention

> >in

> >> >producing the study.

> >> >

> >> > Children in the study were vaccinated from 1991 to 1993.

>The

> >> >form of DTP vaccine that they received, which apparently caused rare

> >> >febrile seizures, is no longer used in the United States. It has been

> >> >replaced by a form called DTaP, which studies suggest has one-third or

> >> >fewer of the side effects of the older type.

> >> >

> >> > Previous studies had shown that in rare cases DTP and MMR

> >> >caused children to have high fevers, as well as febrile seizures that

> >> >lasted from a few seconds to 15 minutes. But febrile seizures are

>fairly

> >> >common in children even without vaccination, occurring in about 4

>percent

> >> >of them by the time they have passed through adolescence.

> >> >

> >> > " The seizures come on when fever is high, " Dr.

>said,

> >> > " and it is a terrifying event for the families to have a young child

> >> >convulse and then look as if they are dead. But terrifying as they

>are,

> >> >they are not dangerous in terms of causing problems later. "

> >> >

> >> > Of all the children in the study, only 63 had experienced

> >> >febrile seizures after being vaccinated; 521 had had such seizures as

>a

> >> >result of illnesses not related to vaccination.

> >> >

> >> > Seizures not connected to a fever are much more worrisome

> >than

> >> >febrile seizures, Dr. and Dr. said. These seizures are

> >> >sometimes linked to disorders like epilepsy and mental retardation.

>The

> >> >study found that between those children who got febrile fevers and

>those

> >> >who did not, the rate of nonfebrile seizures was no different.

> >> >

> >> > " This study, " Dr. said, " is useful because it gives

>a

> >> >clearer picture, and greater confidence that vaccines are not

>associated

> >> >with nonfebrile seizures. "

> >> >

> >> > Concern and debate over the safety of DTP and MMR have

> >flared

> >> >in the United States, Britain and elsewhere recently, and periodically

> >> >during the last 30 years. Indeed, fears about them have caused some

> >parents

> >> >to avoid vaccinating their children, a decision with sometimes

>disastrous

> >> >results. Large outbreaks of disease have followed the drops in

> >vaccination

> >> >in several countries, and smaller outbreaks of measles and whooping

>cough

> >> >have occurred in some American communities.

> >> >

> >> > For example, studies have shown that anti-vaccination

> >> >arguments by some doctors in Britain three decades ago brought a huge

> >drop

> >> >in vaccination there, to 30 percent of all children from 80 percent in

> >just

> >> >a few years. What resulted was an epidemic of 100,000 cases of

>whooping

> >> >cough, with at least 34 deaths. (This is .034% Phyllis placed this

> >> >here.)

> >> >

> >> > In Japan, a similar drop in vaccination resulted in a

>1979

> >> >epidemic of 13,000 cases and 41 deaths. (This is .315% Phylllis

>placed

> >> >this here)

> >> >

> >> > Dr. Chen, an epidemiologist at the Centers for

> >Disease

> >> >Control and Prevention, said such epidemics were an unintended

> >consequence

> >> >of " mature vaccination programs " that have nearly eradicated many

> >diseases

> >> >in developed countries, creating a sense of complacency in doctors and

> >> >parents who have no personal experience with the diseases the vaccines

> >can

> >> >prevent.

> >> >

> >> > Many parents today do not realize how serious diseases

>like

> >> >measles and whooping cough can be. Around the world, in countries

>where

> >> >vaccines are not available, almost 900,000 children a year die of

> >measles.

> >> >(This would be a very large drop in the population throughout the

>world

> >if

> >> >this, indeed, were a yealy rate of deaths. Where do they get these

> >> >numbers?... Phyllis placed this here.)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Sue, I wasn't trying to correct you and am sorry if it sounded as if I was.

You were making a good point and I was just adding another angle to it.

Thanks, Sandy

ALL INFORMATION, DATA, AND MATERIAL CONTAINED, PRESENTED, OR PROVIDED HERE

IS FOR GENERAL INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS

REFLECTING THE KNOWLEDGE OR OPINIONS OF THE PUBLISHER, AND IS NOT TO BE

CONSTRUED OR INTENDED AS PROVIDING MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION

WHETHER OR NOT TO VACCINATE IS AN IMPORTANT AND COMPLEX ISSUE AND SHOULD BE

MADE BY YOU, AND YOU ALONE, IN CONSULTATION WITH YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

Re: People dying with " AIDS "

I dont know of any actual proof....I just shared what we were told at

training sessions.

And Sandy saying if you are HIV positive and have certain conditions

(<---thats the word I was after before)

you are classed as having AIDS is what I was trying to say! Thanks Sandy. We

learnt how ridiculous it was that after having so many (certain) conditions

you then officially had AIDS......

Confusing.......

SUE, Ruby(2)

Wales,UK

[Guest guest]

Oh Sandy! Sorry if you felt that I thought you were correcting me.....I

didnt think that at all! LOL

Sometimes our thoughts and comments dont come across as they should in print

,do they?! :-)

SUE<Ruby(2)

Wales<UK