RE: Need Polio/insecticide info

June 7, 2001

Cheryl, I personally would be careful saying the two leading risk factors

are sugar consumption and pesticides. Those are both theories and they may

or may not be true. If it is a mere correlation, then it could be

coincidence.

Not all people exposed to pesticides and not all people consuming sugar got

polio, so clearly that is not the sole cause, although it is possibly

necessary.

I lived in Alaska where people got polio, and we did not have pesticides

being sprayed. We all ate sugar, only a few of us got polio. I realize it

is more complicated than that - amount of exposure must be thought to be

critical. And I haven't personally read these theories, but I just think we

need to separate " fact " from " theory " . There are not a lot of facts out

there, unfortunately. And it is the nature of science, even when we have

seemed to prove things, to prove us wrong.

I have mentioned before three factors what are known correlates, which may

be causally related - recent injection of vaccine, particularly DPT

(provocation polio), tonsillectomies, and recent injections of antibiotics.

All three are established in the medical literature to probably be related.

It takes double blind, placebo controlled studies and/or biological studies

to prove causation - obviously no one has given some people injections

and/or tonsillectomies, not knowing who got them, and seen who got polio.

Tonsillectomies and injections of antibiotics declined around the time polio

declined, and their decline may be related to the polio decline, more or

less than vaccinations were. All three affect the immune system, and there

may be biological studies which explain why that would lead to polio. I

remember reading somewhere, years ago, that it might be that

tonsillectomies, because they involved removal of the tonsils from the

throat, and polio is thought to be caught via the respiratory system (I

think), somehow make you more vulnerable. That, if there have been

biological studies confirming it, might be considered proof, if there were

well done. If they learned the mechanism of how it occurred.

And I know of no studies exposing people to pesticides and/or sugar, not

knowing who got what if anything, and then exposing them to polio.

The next best thing would be to study matched groups, seeing who was or was

not exposed to these things (sugar, tonsillectomies, etc.) to see who did or

did not get polio. This kind of study is not as strong, and is not

considered " proof " of causation. If no one who was not exposed got polio

(i.e., 100% of those who got polio were in the sugar group, or the pesticide

group, or whatever), that would be fairly convincing, but still would not be

considered " proof " . There could still be some other factor, the true cause,

which went along with, or tended to happen among, those who were exposed to

whatever it was.

I believe in such a case, you might be able to say, however, that it was

probably related.

I personally believe it is very important that we be careful about what we

present as fact. And to constantly pursue these ideas in hopes of

discovering the truth.

Hope this makes sense. Sandy from Alaska

ALL INFORMATION, DATA, AND MATERIAL CONTAINED, PRESENTED, OR PROVIDED HERE

IS FOR GENERAL INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS

REFLECTING THE KNOWLEDGE OR OPINIONS OF THE PUBLISHER, AND IS NOT TO BE

CONSTRUED OR INTENDED AS PROVIDING MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION

WHETHER OR NOT TO VACCINATE IS AN IMPORTANT AND COMPLEX ISSUE AND SHOULD BE

MADE BY YOU, AND YOU ALONE, IN CONSULTATION WITH YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

Need Polio/insecticide info

In August I'm scheduled to give a brief talk on vaccinations at my

homeopathy study group. After last night's class I was speaking with a

woman who was pregnant when she contracted polio from her recently

vaccinated daughter. That got four of us in a discussion about polio. I

mentioned the two leading risk factors in developing SYMPTOMATIC polio were

sugar consumption and exposure to pesticides. I mentioned the strong

correlation between tonnage of pesticides applied and number of polio cases

in India. Suddenly it hit me about the polio epidemics in the U.S. Many

times I've seen black and white film footage of malathion trucks in the 50s

driving through the suburbs (like the ice cream man) and there would be

children in swimwear dancing in the malathion fog alongside the

trucks. I've seen this many times but no one else had heard of such a

thing.

So my questions are: " Does anyone else remember seeing such a thing? " and

if so, " Do you have any clue as to where I can get the footage? "

TIA,

Cheryl Overley

June 12, 2001

Wow Cheryl, that looks like a great summary! Anyone who reads it and doesn't

start doing some serious thinking is brain dead. LOL

In a message dated 6/12/2001 1:40:03 PM Central Daylight Time,

cheryl@... writes:

> My goal is to give out as little information as possible (limited by time)

> that will have a maximum impact on causing people to rethink the disease

> paradigm promulgated by the vaccine industry and health departments. I'd

> appreciate anyone's contributions to or criticisms of the following points.

>

> Statistics:

> - Shifting definitions of disease makes disease tracking statistics

> comparing apples to oranges.

> - Evaluate results in terms of " does the funder or writer of the study

> benefit financially from this result? "

> - Note length and size of study.

> - Recognize adverse event statistics reported in terms of AE per dose, NOT

> per child.

> - Proliferation of vaccine resistant strains mean titers don't equal

> immunity.

>

> Other view of diseases:

> - Measles as " visit from Vishnu " preceding developmental jump.

> - Homeopaths' view as opportunity to clear measle miasm.

> - Natural hygiene's view of childhood diseases as detoxification process.

> - Th1 vs. Th2 dominated immune response: encouraging body to attack

> invaders instead of self.

>

> Miscellaneous:

> - History of legal shielding of vaccine manufacturers from liability under

> current laws.

> - Abortion: By killing a child, keeping it's cells alive for decades,

> injecting it's by-products into ourselves and believing it will guarantee

> us health and keep us from missing work, how do we differ from the heathens

> mentioned in the old testament who sacrificed their children to their gods

> believing it would guarantee them health and economic prosperity? (My

> personal answer is 1) I don't know that they consumed their children and 2)

> they certainly didn't preform the garish sci-fi horror of keeping a killed

> baby alive (in a sense) for decades to produce a continual harvest.)

> - State tracking systems operating w/o parents knowledge of consent. (I

> have forms and instructions available so parents can have records blocked.)

>

> My plan is to hit main points that may peak curiosity so people have an

> idea what to start investigating and give them a clue as to not be gullible

> to statistical claims.

>

> I'm considering making a book list available to anyone interested in

> pursuing the vaccination issue themselves. I'd want to include varied

> sources that, rather than devolving to a battle of statistics and

> generating confusion, give unique perspectives that shed light on the

> issue, giving people perspective and tools with which they can investigate

> for themselves and judge arguments without feeling swept up in a

> whirlwind. Please let me know what you think of this sort of idea (as

> opposed to clearly anti-vax books that may close people's minds

> permanently), how you think list fits the bill, and anything you think

> would enhance the list.

>

> *Dec, '96 Money Magazine article by Rock - shows the money trail

> *Immunization: The Reality Behind the Myth by Walene - personal

> experience w/ CPS, shows otherstanding of health & disease and gives some

> criteria for judging apparent truths.

> *Every Second Child by Archie Kalokerinos - shows relationship of diet, vit

> C levels, sickness, and susceptibility to vaccine induced SIDS. Also shows

> unwillingness of medical establishment to accept the obvious.

> *Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics: The Manipulation of Public Opinion in

> America by Wheeler - the title pretty much says it all. ;-)

> *Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston Price - title

> explains it's place on my list

> *The Curse of Louis Pasteur by Appleton - challenges and presents

> alternative to germ theory of disease.

>

June 12, 2001

sandym@... wrote:

>Cheryl, I personally would be careful saying the two leading risk factors

>are sugar consumption and pesticides. Those are both theories and they may

>or may not be true. If it is a mere correlation, then it could be

>coincidence.

Yikes! I should have written two leading risk factors, not THE two leading

risk factors. What I wrote is misleading regarding the conversation and,

at this time, certainly not provable. Good catch!

>Not all people exposed to pesticides and not all people consuming sugar got

>polio, so clearly that is not the sole cause, although it is possibly

>necessary.

I agree.

In fact, only a small fraction of one percent of people exposed to the

virus AND carrying the virus in their blood came down with symptoms of

polio. The vaccine pushers NEVER publicize this fact. (OK, I might get

myself in trouble for saying NEVER. If you show me I'm wrong I'll quickly

and humbly retract my statement.) They make truckloads of money by

inducing fear in people. The convince people contracting these VfDs is as

random as a ball on a roulette wheel. This is simply not the case. While

I know of no double-blind study of sugar and polio susceptibility in people

there was a defacto control realized in retrospect in either North or South

Carolina. (Sorry I don't remember which. I know it is cited in Walene

' " Immunization: The Reality Behind the Myth " .) Beyond that sugar is

recognized by traditional western allopaths as well as natural health folks

to depress the immune system, trash blood levels of antioxidants, and

render folds particularly vulnerable to virii. From a public health

standpoint there are many things that leave populations vulnerable to

disease but I think few would argue that, as a nation, the single change

each individual could make that would rapidly improve health would NOT be

to eliminate sugar from the diet. To me that is just intuitive. If that

doesn't seem plausible to anyone, please let me know and I'll gladly post

references.

>I lived in Alaska where people got polio, and we did not have pesticides

>being sprayed. We all ate sugar, only a few of us got polio. I realize it

>is more complicated than that - amount of exposure must be thought to be

>critical. And I haven't personally read these theories, but I just think we

>need to separate " fact " from " theory " . There are not a lot of facts out

>there, unfortunately. And it is the nature of science, even when we have

>seemed to prove things, to prove us wrong.

There are plenty of facts out there. It's just that the facts that are

pertinent to people's health are not necessarily the ones that increase

profits to corporations with huge marketing budgets. ;-)

From a link to 's page on diet & polio:

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/polio.html#1.) %20Diet:

Here's a link to diet (induced B1 deficiency) and polio:

http://www.whale.to/v/sandler.html

Here's a link to a page on pesticides & polio:

http://www.geocities.com/harpub/ It quite reasonably states, " Laboratory

analysis (1958) showed " polio " to be a mix of CNS diseases: polio,

encephalitis, meningitis, and acute flaccid paralysis (no microbe found). "

>I have mentioned before three factors what are known correlates, which may

>be causally related - recent injection of vaccine, particularly DPT

>(provocation polio), tonsillectomies, and recent injections of antibiotics.

That's fine BUT in our country that doesn't make for very many cases of

diagnosed polio. I intend to explain the changing definitions of polio

over the years, and how if you attempt to count cases by the older

definitions, that polio isn't nearly as rare today as eight cases per

year. Thank you for reminding me of the injection correlation. When I

investigated that like I found ANY stab regardless of type of injection

increased the chances of polio or any neurological trouble originating at

the injection site. Does this correlate with what you've read? So far as

tonsillectiomies and antibiotics, I'd lump these two into the category of

well documented immuno-suppressants. Not to be quarrelsome (because I

agree with you) but I maintain a much larger percentage of US citizens

immune systems are suppressed at this very moment because of sugary

breakfasts than recent anti-b injections or tonsillectomies. (It's a

marketing thing. You can only sell a person ONE tonsillectomy but you can

easily make sugary products addicting and have a customer for life!)

>I personally believe it is very important that we be careful about what we

>present as fact. And to constantly pursue these ideas in hopes of

>discovering the truth.

Agreed. I, once again, retract my misleading statement.

END DIRECT RESPONSE TO POST

My goal is to give out as little information as possible (limited by time)

that will have a maximum impact on causing people to rethink the disease

paradigm promulgated by the vaccine industry and health departments. I'd

appreciate anyone's contributions to or criticisms of the following points.

Statistics:

- Shifting definitions of disease makes disease tracking statistics

comparing apples to oranges.

- Evaluate results in terms of " does the funder or writer of the study

benefit financially from this result? "

- Note length and size of study.

- Recognize adverse event statistics reported in terms of AE per dose, NOT

per child.

- Proliferation of vaccine resistant strains mean titers don't equal immunity.

Other view of diseases:

- Measles as " visit from Vishnu " preceding developmental jump.

- Homeopaths' view as opportunity to clear measle miasm.

- Natural hygiene's view of childhood diseases as detoxification process.

- Th1 vs. Th2 dominated immune response: encouraging body to attack

invaders instead of self.

Miscellaneous:

- History of legal shielding of vaccine manufacturers from liability under

current laws.

- Abortion: By killing a child, keeping it's cells alive for decades,

injecting it's by-products into ourselves and believing it will guarantee

us health and keep us from missing work, how do we differ from the heathens

mentioned in the old testament who sacrificed their children to their gods

believing it would guarantee them health and economic prosperity? (My

personal answer is 1) I don't know that they consumed their children and 2)

they certainly didn't preform the garish sci-fi horror of keeping a killed

baby alive (in a sense) for decades to produce a continual harvest.)

- State tracking systems operating w/o parents knowledge of consent. (I

have forms and instructions available so parents can have records blocked.)

My plan is to hit main points that may peak curiosity so people have an

idea what to start investigating and give them a clue as to not be gullible

to statistical claims.

I'm considering making a book list available to anyone interested in

pursuing the vaccination issue themselves. I'd want to include varied

sources that, rather than devolving to a battle of statistics and

generating confusion, give unique perspectives that shed light on the

issue, giving people perspective and tools with which they can investigate

for themselves and judge arguments without feeling swept up in a

whirlwind. Please let me know what you think of this sort of idea (as

opposed to clearly anti-vax books that may close people's minds

permanently), how you think list fits the bill, and anything you think

would enhance the list.

*Dec, '96 Money Magazine article by Rock - shows the money trail

*Immunization: The Reality Behind the Myth by Walene - personal

experience w/ CPS, shows otherstanding of health & disease and gives some

criteria for judging apparent truths.

*Every Second Child by Archie Kalokerinos - shows relationship of diet, vit

C levels, sickness, and susceptibility to vaccine induced SIDS. Also shows

unwillingness of medical establishment to accept the obvious.

*Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics: The Manipulation of Public Opinion in

America by Wheeler - the title pretty much says it all. ;-)

*Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston Price - title

explains it's place on my list

*The Curse of Louis Pasteur by Appleton - challenges and presents

alternative to germ theory of disease.

Thanks,

Cheryl Overley, who will respond to any e-mails out there once I get

caught up!

June 12, 2001

Cheryl, Thanks for your very thoughtful reply to my comments.

I agree that sugar is an immune suppressant - can even feel it working that

way on myself. However when I said there were few " facts " I was referring

to the fact that there are few, if any, double blind, placebo controlled,

randomized, longitudinal studies out there looking at the issue and/or

biological studies of the mechanism of sugar- induced immune suppression.

(I'll get out my Walene book and try and find the reference you cite -

thanks.) Without those, it is my opinion that any information is a

correlation and may not represent true cause. On the other hand, sometimes

correlations are strong enough that we can be pretty sure - like with

smoking and cancer. The right kind of studies were not done for years - but

most of us knew smoking caused cancer.

You said " That's fine BUT in our country that doesn't make for very many

cases of diagnosed polio " . I'm not sure I understand why you say the

tonsillectomy/antibiotics connection doesn't explain anything. Although I

am aware of disease renaming - and that there may be more " polio " cases out

there than we are being told, it is nothing compared to the epidemic of it

during the fifties where I personally know a number of people who were

" crippled " because of it. I think tonsillectomies and injections of

antibiotics both declined around the time the vaccine was introduced and

" polio " declined. (And as you said, it was injections, not just of DPT that

was know to cause provocation polio.) Both tonsillectomies and injections

of antibiotics, as immune suppressants, might explain why the small numbers

of people exposed to polio ever got anything serious from it.

You also said: " From a public health standpoint there are many things that

leave populations vulnerable to disease but I think few would argue that, as

a nation, the single change each individual could make that would rapidly

improve health would NOT be to eliminate sugar from the diet. " Did you mean

to say " NOT " ? I don't follow your point, if that is the case, so please

explain.

Are you saying you are thinking of writing a book with a list of articles?

I didn't quite understand. There is a wonderful chiropractor in Alaska who

is doing just that - not published yet.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. Sandy from

Alaska

ALL INFORMATION, DATA, AND MATERIAL CONTAINED, PRESENTED, OR PROVIDED HERE

IS FOR GENERAL INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS

REFLECTING THE KNOWLEDGE OR OPINIONS OF THE PUBLISHER, AND IS NOT TO BE

CONSTRUED OR INTENDED AS PROVIDING MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION

WHETHER OR NOT TO VACCINATE IS AN IMPORTANT AND COMPLEX ISSUE AND SHOULD BE

MADE BY YOU, AND YOU ALONE, IN CONSULTATION WITH YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

June 12, 2001

Cheryl, Sorry, but I just got a chance to read your ideas for your book, and

on first glance, it sure looks like it would be a great addition. HOpe you

can do it. Thanks, Sandy