Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

[Guest guest]

I wonder how similar these statements are to the ones that were used in the

past to justify institutionalizing children and adults with down syndrome?

Karyn, running from the flames

In a message dated 2/7/01 2:57:54 AM Central Standard Time, bspyle@...

writes:

<< I totally and whole heartedly agree, DeVanna! Why place your child in a

situation where he will ALWAYS be either a pet or low man on the totem pole,

forever doomed to frustration? I just do not see the advantage ... for the

special needs child, the other students or the teachers.

granny

---

" Beautiful that war and all its deeds of carnage must

in time be utterly lost. " -- Walt Whitman

http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html

Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

> Hi All,

> I have a son, who is 20 years old! I have to say, I never understood,why

> parents wanted their child in a classroom, where they needed an aide or

two,

> for them to succeed in the room! These teachers of typical kids, do not

have

> the ability or the desire to handle children with disabilities!!!!!!!

These

> children of special needs, do not get it in a room full of typical kids!

They

> are always at the bottom of the list,striving to MAKE it! I believe, our

kids

> should be known and acknowledged, but why not put them in a classroom

> appropiate for them! This way, they accomplish and succeed, with an

> appropriate teacher, who can see what that child needs, and excel with

that

> student. That is what the special ed teachers are educated for! Yes, some

of

> our kids can do the work, some can excel and use it in the future! I say

go

> for it! But If your kid, cannot do what the typical kid does in the

classroom

> or in gym, WHY would you want them to feel inferior, I say love your

child,

> and put them in the best program, that will make them grow, not struggle

to

> be something that is not them!!!!!!!!!!!

> >>

[Guest guest]

Hello, I just had to reply to this thread. I have

posted before about my son who is a third grade

inclusion student here in NY state. is soon to be

nine. went to a preschool for the handicap and

has been included in the local school scince

kindergarten. Kindergarten and first grade

thrived in the reg. class room. Progressing greatly in

his language skills, reading,social behavior ect. Last

year in 2nd. grade we had some behavior problems which

mostly were about doing his work and not being a

distraction in class. It was not totally resolved at

the end of last year but was being worked on. He was

given a new aide this year and his teacher had

requested him. So I figure great. I have only gotten

good reports home and seems to be learning alot.

has been able to tell me alot lately and I have

realized that scince befor christmas or maybe all year

I am not sure, he has only been included for the

specials. (art, gym, music,lunch ect.) Almost all of

his day is spent on pull outs ,speech, ot,spec.ed

teacher for spelling, math and reading. What made me

catch on to this was that they gave him an extra

chorus with the second graders and I asked what he was

missing in class I got dead pan silence. So I

requested his scheduale.He is being taken to a

seperate room with his aide to work on acedemics one

on one. Sounds good but is not inclusion. i am not

sure what to think because they said a t this point he

works better in quiet one on one to learn. I told them

he needs to learn how to work in a group setting. We

are at an impass mainly because I cannot think what to

do. I also have had tell me about videos and I

informed the aide that he was not to use videos as a

reward in school he gets enough of that at home. A

reward that I was going to wean off of because it

is making an active child into a couch potatoe. More

dead pan silence then a agreement not to abuse this

video thing. Not a promise to stop. I wonder if

inclusion is so good. But I have no other choice. My

son is being segregated and I can tell is lonely for

the first time. Pam

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Stirred up a hornets nest, didn't I! What fun!

Of course, I'm a strong advocate of the parents choosing for what's best for

their children. Inclusion was not a viable option when Bear was in

school. Had it been, I may have explored other options.

granny

---

" Beautiful that war and all its deeds of carnage must

in time be utterly lost. " -- Walt Whitman

http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html

Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

> In a message dated 2/7/01 2:57:45 AM Central Standard Time,

bspyle@...

> writes:

>

> > I totally and whole heartedly agree, DeVanna! Why place your child in a

> > situation where he will ALWAYS be either a pet or low man on the totem

> pole,

> > forever doomed to frustration? I just do not see the advantage ... for

the

> > special needs child, the other students or the teachers.

> >

> > granny

>

>

> OooooH Granny I can see you agreeing to the previous post but to assume

> all of our kids are looked at as Pets hmmmmmmm and you cannot see any

> advantage??? For anyone?? Am I too assume has suffered no

frustrations

> because she was educated in that " Magic " room called Sped Ed AKA Self

> Contained???

>

> Come on, all kids suffer a degree of frustration, shoot I'm suffering it

> right now lolol It gets pretty old when we try and try again to defend our

> " choices " I try very hard to make all (society) understand my choices but

to

> no avail

>

> Please remember that different approaches make our country what it is, our

> kids who they are. I think you would be quite impressed with Sara's so

called

> lower totem pole personality Heehee she sees herself as quite a Prima Dona

> (thanks to family, friends and SCHOOL personal so please don't tell her

> she's a mere pet, doomed to frustration lololol

>

> Kathy mom to Sara 9.............and not everyone can be at the top of the

> class....I never was

>

[Guest guest]

Well, somebody has to keep this list from nodding off. :^)

granny

---

" Beautiful that war and all its deeds of carnage must

in time be utterly lost. " -- Walt Whitman

http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html

Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

> In a message dated 2/7/01 9:10:58 AM Central Standard Time,

bspyle@...

> writes:

>

> > Stirred up a hornets nest, didn't I! What fun!

> >

> > Of course, I'm a strong advocate of the parents choosing for what's

best

> for

> > their children. Inclusion was not a viable option when Bear was

in

> > school. Had it been, I may have explored other options.

> >

> > granny

>

>

> ROTFLOL Ok Granny I told hubby as I was reading your post that " Granny is

> trying to liven up the list " Heehee

>

> I pray nightly that I can stay strong for ALL of my kids. To follow

through

> with the convictions we ( Mike and I) have for them. Well you do

strengthen

> us " passionate ones " Granny Heehee can you do this again in the

> Spring...........IEP time lolol

>

> Kathy

>

[Guest guest]

But Granny you are so good at stirring up hornets nets, Where would we be with

out you stirring things up.

HUGGGGGGGGGGGG.

It was the same here in my area when Darran was starting the school system

inclusion was not an option as he came up to the age when inclusion first

started the school system fought tooth and nail and not all parents would fight

for our kids like everybody does now , Parents didn't support each other as

parents do now, I am so glad for all the parents who do , do this and am

grateful to call of of you here on the list friends. All of you just have to

remeber not all kids got the advantages that is now out there not only for your

children but the suppot from others that all of you are so blessed with now.

Carolyn

Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

> In a message dated 2/7/01 2:57:45 AM Central Standard Time,

bspyle@...

> writes:

>

> > I totally and whole heartedly agree, DeVanna! Why place your child in a

> > situation where he will ALWAYS be either a pet or low man on the totem

> pole,

> > forever doomed to frustration? I just do not see the advantage ... for

the

> > special needs child, the other students or the teachers.

> >

> > granny

>

>

> OooooH Granny I can see you agreeing to the previous post but to assume

> all of our kids are looked at as Pets hmmmmmmm and you cannot see any

> advantage??? For anyone?? Am I too assume has suffered no

frustrations

> because she was educated in that " Magic " room called Sped Ed AKA Self

> Contained???

>

> Come on, all kids suffer a degree of frustration, shoot I'm suffering it

> right now lolol It gets pretty old when we try and try again to defend our

> " choices " I try very hard to make all (society) understand my choices but

to

> no avail

>

> Please remember that different approaches make our country what it is, our

> kids who they are. I think you would be quite impressed with Sara's so

called

> lower totem pole personality Heehee she sees herself as quite a Prima Dona

> (thanks to family, friends and SCHOOL personal so please don't tell her

> she's a mere pet, doomed to frustration lololol

>

> Kathy mom to Sara 9.............and not everyone can be at the top of the

> class....I never was

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I guess I'll have to put in my 2 cents worth too. I am another

Granny, my grandson actually does call me that.

As most of you probably know, my son recently turned 36 years

old. When he was little our kids didn't go to school at all. When they did

start it was in " trainable " classes where no one really expected them to

learn anything. When sheltered workshops were developed the kids were

trained to work there. No one aspired to anything higher. Most parents were

so happy to have their kids in school that they never looked at the quality

of what they were getting. There are still many parents like that, I'm sure.

When was 3 he started in a regular Montessori preschool. I

got him in by not telling the teacher he had DS and she didn't notice till

he'd been there for awhile. When she did he was doing so well she didn't

mind. (In fact when we started looking for another school she recommended I

do the same thing again.)

We were very lucky to be able find the things he needed, not everyone was so

lucky. Then we found a private school which took about 20% handicapped

students in with the regular students. It was an academic program and he did

everything the others did. He never had, or needed, an aide. They had small

classes. It was ungraded, not strictly 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, that sort of thing.

They might all be doing math for instance but not necessarily the same math.

He also got science and history and all those things which he would never

have heard of in the " trainable " class. If nothing else it awakened an

interest in those things in him. Yes, he was fully included, altho generally

school inclusion had not been heard of at that time. He had no behavior

problems, he was like everyone else. He was popular with teachers and

students, especially the girls. And in no way a pet.

Not every child belongs in a regular class. There are children so

severely disabled, they would gain nothing. They are few and far between but

they do exist and I doubt many of them have DS. Also there are a lot of

differences in schools. Special Ed can mean something entirely different

from one to another. And the way it is handled. Inclusion will not work if

they just stick some " special " kids in there with no advance prep. for

teachers or students and that's the way it was at first.

Self-contained classes can be very good or very bad. We all need to

assess what is available for our kids and if necessary try to make changes.

evidently got a good education in her self-contained environment,

many, many others did not.

One girl I know wanted to learn to read so badly but the teachers said they

didn't have time to fool with that. And the parents didn't push. So she

never learned.

Another compaint I heard a lot was----Kids with DS tend to be good

mimics and there were kids in sped who had mannerisms and behaviors that

these kids were picking up. They need to be around kids whose behavior is

worth mimicking. Of course, there are regular kids you wouldn't want yours

mimicking either, but the odds are better.

Yes, is living at home with Mom. Not sitting. Well, yes he

uses a wheelchair so he sits a lot, but he is in the community. He goes to

Art classes once or twice a week, to Church, takes other classes from time to

time. He goes shopping, he bowls, he does a lot of things. His employment

options are limited due to the wheelchair. At one time he worked in an

office for awhile but they just gave him dull things to do, he could have

done so much more but wasn't given the chance. So he quit and retired. He

goes to the library regularly where everyone knows him. He has a very active

life, even tho he isn't working at a job.

He has extended his education continually by reading and studying. If

he couldn't read well, his horizons would be much more limited too. He does

have some speech and language problems but they don't hold him back much. He

lives in a normal world.

If your kids are in an inclusion program that is really good, I am

happy for you. And for them. It's great. If you feel another option is

better I'm not going to criticize, maybe the program you have is better, and

better for your child. I know we all want the best. I only know that most

people 's AGE with DS cannot do the things he can, it's better now for

the younger ones. And I am so glad.

Jessie

[Guest guest]

I don't have time right now to reply, which is probably a good thing. It

will give me a chance to think this through. Just surfice to say for now

anyway, that is in full inclusion and is and has done very well for

herself. Since I also teach " regular ed " with special needs kids in my

class, I have lots more to say too, about the regular ed teachers who " don't

want or know how to handle the special needs kids in their class " .

Gotta go for now........

To be contnued when I have time and I cool down a bit.

[Guest guest]

OK,

said I didnt have time to reply in my previous email, but reading this one

made me think of something else!

My daughter will be the first person to graduate next year from her

elementary school with DS who will be in inclusion for her whole elementary

school experience. In other words graduate with everyone else and not from a

special ed class!!!!!

I think she will surely be at the top of many lists!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

My 2 cents.

I am so lucky they did not have a SPED segregated class at my sons school. He

had to be included.....he had to have friends .....he had to do the class

projects...he had to be just one of the kids. Yes, he did get some pullouts

but they took up only 15% of his day. He could work on math when the others

kids did. During quiet reading he had his own books. The other kids that

needed help would go with him and play games and learn together. What?? a kid

with just a minor speech problem should be segregated.........try that one on

a parent. They learned together and formed friendships.

He is now in middle school and they are trying to segregate him. He is angry

no friends!! I am increasing his reg ed and he is happier and more willing

to learn. His friends are teaching him the social skills he will need to be a

productive member of society. Those kept in seclusion tend to be more

aggressive in behavior and antisocial. They tend to have trouble keeping a

job because they are SOOO different. Who best can teach MY SON how to be a

typical 13yo but a typical 13yo. I cannot teach him how to fit in and be cool.

Yes, segregation has its uses but is not what is best for all children. Does

my son need more help in a separate setting to learn certain things?? Yes!!

But he cannot be part of society if we EXCLUDE him!!

Sorry so long(could have been longer)

My kids mom (tigress)

Jeannette

Thinking maybe you think I should segregate my gifted child because he is a

disruption also!!!!! To Smart for the teachers LOL

[Guest guest]

Hi

I am going through kindergarten blues myself. is in a " severely

handicapped class "

which was my only altternative to full inclusion. What I am finding in S.H.

class, is that

is being babtsat not taught. They insisted she wear diapers to school

and were not

open to help me potty train herat school-KEEP IN MIND that she is trained at

home. The

class does not have a bathroom in the class. Well I sent her to school any

in cotton panties

and the teacher says Not Until She Can Tell Us She Has To Potty!!!! Too Bad-

they will just have to take Her!!! I have to go sit in class to find out what

she is doing because the communication is soooooo poor. She has a G-TUBE and

suffers from hyper-sensitive gag reflex

because of an N-G tube as a baby. She only wants to eat french fries. We have

tried other

foods and textures with no luck. The teacher says she eats everything at

lunch. I go to observe, only to see her stuff her mouth and then spit it out-

OR scream NOOOOO when

coaxing her to eat. I am angry,frustrated and non-trusting. Now they sent

home a paper

that is blank as to who it is going to- requesting me to release

personal records- NO WAY JOSE!!!!!! I refused to sign a blank release!! I

am opting for to repeat kindergarten next year in my home district.

Please give me feedback any of you who can.

,mom to (5and d.s.) (4months,d.s.)

[Guest guest]

,

You need to call an IEP meeting and address both the toileting issues and the

communication on the WRITTEN form.

For toileting, you can write up a goal saying that she will be taken to the

toilet,,,??? every hour, every 2 hours..whatever you think....and encouraged

to spontaneously sign, point, or say that she needs to use the toilet. And

always put in verbal praise.

Something like that.

For communication...you can put in there that there will be a communication

log sent daily between school and home. This can be used to share things

that you need to know and also things that will help you facilitate

conversations with her about what she did at school that day..ie. puzzle,

art, playground, math, who she played with.........you get the picture.

ALSO, you will want to make sure that it is not used for negative comments or

feed back.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/7/01 2:15:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, KVanRyzin@...

writes:

> I wonder how similar these statements are to the ones that were used in the

> past to justify institutionalizing children and adults with down syndrome?

>

>

Or to keep those members of other races from feeling bad when they

competed with whites ... after all, they could never do as well so why come

to the same schools ... better to stay in schools with the teachers specially

trained for their kind.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/7/2001 7:45:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, thrill@...

writes:

> Sorry to be so wordy...this certainly is a topic with a lot of ifs, ands,

> buts, maybes AND possibilities.

>

>

Yes, there are. We have the job to test the different waters and see what

happens. will have his first community involvment in the spring with

children with disabilities. I'm signing him up for challenger league

baseball.

I've been blessed to have Kingsley as my mentor and friend these past

few years. I've learned alot from her and I like what she has done with

. She hosted teen parties (I think Rick's Jan attended) for teens with

DS, which was a hit. I watch young adults at conferences and have seen

those who are veteran attendees reach out to new attendees and include them

in their activities.

For now, my son needs and deserves the inclusion he receives. He also needs

and deserves the resource room for reading and math. At this time, due to

behavior problems related to medications, he is being pulled out when he has

difficult moments (sometimes a walk around the halls or a trip to the

principals office). I keep hearing from everyone at the school that this is

just temporary. His Vice principal loves to tell me that is a

perfect example of inclusion working. What will happen in middle school or

high school? Who knows? But, I will do what I can to insure my son receives

the best education in the least restrictive environment until he is 22 years

old. We'll take it one day at a time.

For those who feel strongly one way or another, must remember that our

children are not yours and vice versa. No matter what a parent decides to

do, we must support them and support IDEA.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/7/01 10:10:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,

bspyle@... writes:

> <<Inclusion was not a viable option when Bear was in

> school. Had it been, I may have explored other options.>>

>

> And so, I would think you must respect the decisions of others here who

> have done just that. When they report the successes of their children from

> the choices they have made, we should all celebrate instead of trying to

> associate something negative that is not even part of their educational

> experience. Especially if we have no personal experience or knowledge with

> that type of educational placement.

>

> My daughter has been included, although this year she has chosen to be in a

> resource bell for one of her classes. She has not been or is not a pet.

> She is not the low man on the totem pole. She has a wonderful sense of

> self worth, her self esteem is sky high. She has made remarkable academic

> success!! She has friends with DS and friends without, calls from both and

> invitations from both.

Her educational placement and social life certainly aren't perfect ( like

so many others her age) but it is nothing like the comparisons that were made

here for children who are included.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

I think l can see why the " children " from the segregated school

situation might be more self sufficient adults. The girl I know that went

through that, was taught more of those things. In her case, she never

learned to read or heard of history or science etc, but they did teach her

more about cooking and laundry and things like that, more of the Life Skills

kind of things, which isn't bad. In an academic settings they are learning

different things. This may not be true in every case but often is. Jessie

[Guest guest]

Hi all-

I am soooo tired of getting negative things written in the communication book

for .

Or the teacher will write nothing at all- so I play the guessing game.... Did

she eat???

did she do her assignments?? did she ask to potty??? etc... So I tell the

teacher in the book

how important communication is and she writes back " I dont have time to

write-and as it

is, it has taken me 15 minutes away from the kids to write this. " The

teacher tells me

gets too much one to one attention ( meaning therapies- speech,o.t., and

p.t.) I told her

I worked so hard to instill selfesteem in (something I never had) and I

will be damn

if anyone tries to break her spirit!!!) I lost trust in the teacher and the

system. The communication book has now become a means to write negatives. I

stopped writing in it.

One day I observed the class, listening to the teacher and the aides making

rude and mean comments about the kids parents- and I could only imagine what

they say about me and

this is happening in front of the children!!!!! There is so much that I

worry about

every day. Forgive me for spilling my guts but I feel so alone and I love my

girls so very

much and only want a good education and not have them babysat. I want

teachers who

believe in and so they can be productive members of society with

approp.

social skills. So if this qualifies me as a " MOM FROM HELL " so be it!!!!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/7/2001 7:22:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,

sudsystuff@... writes:

<< One day I observed the class, listening to the teacher and the aides

making

rude and mean comments about the kids parents- and I could only imagine what

they say about me and

this is happening in front of the children!!!!! >>

Hi...

Your whole post makes me sad, but I've been there and I sure know how you

feel. But, this para in particular concerns me! I'd like to hear what

others have to say about it too, but my feeling is that you need to share

this information with the principal of the school. As nicely and non

confrontively as you can, but do share it. It's incredibly unprofessional

and a breach of confidence as well. You are right to worry about what the

children think hearing things of this nature!

mom to Ramona 17ds

[Guest guest]

Did I miss a post? Who is everybody replying to?

Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

My 2 cents.

I am so lucky they did not have a SPED segregated class at my sons school.

He

had to be included.....he had to have friends .....he had to do the class

projects...he had to be just one of the kids. Yes, he did get some pullouts

but they took up only 15% of his day. He could work on math when the others

kids did. During quiet reading he had his own books. The other kids that

needed help would go with him and play games and learn together. What?? a

kid

with just a minor speech problem should be segregated.........try that one

on

a parent. They learned together and formed friendships.

He is now in middle school and they are trying to segregate him. He is angry

no friends!! I am increasing his reg ed and he is happier and more willing

to learn. His friends are teaching him the social skills he will need to be

a

productive member of society. Those kept in seclusion tend to be more

aggressive in behavior and antisocial. They tend to have trouble keeping a

job because they are SOOO different. Who best can teach MY SON how to be a

typical 13yo but a typical 13yo. I cannot teach him how to fit in and be

cool.

Yes, segregation has its uses but is not what is best for all children. Does

my son need more help in a separate setting to learn certain things?? Yes!!

But he cannot be part of society if we EXCLUDE him!!

Sorry so long(could have been longer)

My kids mom (tigress)

Jeannette

Thinking maybe you think I should segregate my gifted child because he is a

disruption also!!!!! To Smart for the teachers LOL

[Guest guest]

Jill,

I'm still trying to feel this out because I am upset about some of the

comments that have been going around with this one. But you bring up a good

point about friendships. Although my daughter is in an inclusion class, and

the rest of the kids are nice enough to her, they dont really form "

friendships " . amanda considers her friend from her class another girl with

special needs. They are really close and have even had sleep overs and play

dates.

Her " best friend " is also a child with special needs. I was the one always

pushing for the friendships, thinking that she needed alot of friends like I

always had, but it was pointed out to me that she may very well be " happy "

with her one or two close friends and that's all that she can handle well.

You are right about not getting asked out for burgers etc. amanda is also in

an acting class with regular kids and they too treat her well, but dont

really " include " her in their after class stuff.

After watching the movie Jewel, I keep thinking why does this all have to be

so hard???

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Dont know where youre from, but in NY, the law and the push in education is

for LRE- least restrictive enviornment. if it's any consolation, my daughter

went to regular kindergarten. She went from special needs preschool with 1

teacher and 2 assistants and 12 kids to 1 teacher 1 classroom para, and 28

kids. She had a miserable year. She got ot, pt and speech too. Then she

went into a MIS4 class for one year and then I held her over in 1st grade so

she could go into an inclusion class and she's been there ever since. and if

youve been reading my other posts. she's in 4th grade and doing very, very

well!!

I wanted her in inclusion in K also, but she scored high when they tested her

and since i'm a teacher, I accepted their decision, (but not without a

fight). Th bd of ed is usuallly wrong, and did they end up with egg on their

faces. but good things come to those who wait and i waited and fought and

did what i had to do to get the best for my daughter. it's a long haul from

here and i also dreaded the transition from preschool to K--- now I'm on a

middle school search. It never ends!!!!

[Guest guest]

Exactly!!! I didnt think of that part, about my other child, my 6 year old

son who is gifted and the teacher cant keep up with him. Should he too be

segregated??????

OK, for all of you who are tired of reading every other post from me on this

topic, I think I finally got it off my chest.

Until tomorrow.....

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/7/01 9:51:59 PM Central Standard Time, lumenasan@...

writes:

> Hi...

> Your whole post makes me sad, but I've been there and I sure know how

> you

> feel. But, this para in particular concerns me! I'd like to hear what

> others have to say about it too, but my feeling is that you need to share

> this information with the principal of the school. As nicely and non

> confrontively as you can, but do share it. It's incredibly unprofessional

> and a breach of confidence as well. You are right to worry about what the

> children think hearing things of this nature!

>

> mom to Ramona 17ds

>

HI

I agree with , this should be brought to someone's attention. Follow

the chain of command but tell someone I wish I could whisk you off, out of

OZ and land you somewhere, where you and your children can live with peace.

You would see a Mom in a rage if I encountered any of this nonsense. I think

you need to start making a paper trail, there are some good sites online that

help you write the perfect letter, let me know if you need them OOh is a

communication book in your daughters IEP? I have it in Sara's and this year

is says " positive language " lolol boy been there and done that

Kathy mom to Sara 9

[Guest guest]

Well, you need to get Positive Behavior Managment training written in the IEP

for the staff.

And you need to have in the IEP that the communication log is NOT for

negative issues....the teacher can call you for that.

AND you need to talk to someone in " control " about the way they are talking

about parents, esp in front of the children. THAT should not be allowed.

AND.... this is the best...you need to get a " mole " . My friend laughed at me

about this, but you really do need to have someone on the inside who NO ONE

knows is reporting to you. Ha, that is how I found out that the sp ed aides

are afraid of me, when Mav's aide asked why....they said... " Oh, you have

never faced the WRATH of WENDY! " I love it! I LOVE it!!

You don't mess with MY kids!

Anyway

[Guest guest]

Hi Everybody--

I just had to jump in on this one. As a special education teacher (my

students truly do have severe and profound special needs) I can see both

sides of the coin on the issue of inclusion, mainstreaming and segregation.

Mac is only 2 and I already have concerns about what is truly in HIS best

interest and not what I want and see as the IDEAL.

Inclusion is much easier when children are younger--infants to elementary

age. After that it really does become more difficult to include kids with

delays in the typical class. It's not impossible and it can be successful,

but it takes a united group to make it work. Everyone has to believe that

it can and will work. And, with many kids, it takes a lot of creativity and

looking outside of the box to make it work well. It's also helpful if the

administration is with you on this--from what I've seen if the

administration sets the tone and if he/she's positive, upbeat and supportive

about including kids with disabilities then " usually " the faculty and staff

is more receptive and responsive.

At this point, in Mac's life I do plan on having him attend a " typical "

preschool-not special needs or integrated--just the regular ole preschool

here in our town. He will get supports from the itinerant special needs

teacher, but I am not requesting any other services (OT, PT, Speech). I

want him to be as regular as possible. I want the kids to get to know him

just as a regular kid--not someone who the speech teacher comes to see, or

the OT works with, or who gets to play on the cool ball with the PT.... Mac

does have a lot of friends for a 2 (almost 3) year old. I've worked hard to

make that happen. I started the only playgroup in our area. It's not

big--13-19 kids--from 8 different families. We meet monthly or twice

monthly and right now the kids see him as just Mac--it's so cool. However,

I know that will change.

I have seen in my 17 years working with teens and adults with special

needs that MOST of them do not have typical friends--even after being in an

inclusionary setting. They may have some facilitated

friendships--get-togethers planned by parents, teachers... However, MOST do

not have typical teenage or adult friendships with a non-disabled person who

invites them to Mcs after the game, or to go to lunch on Saturday, or

to the mall, or to the bar on Friday night.... However, what I have seen is

those teens and adults who at least spent some time in either a segregated

setting or a self-contained classroom have developed close and meaningful

friendships with their peers with disabilities from those settings. They

seek them out, they enjoy their company and they feel comfortable with them.

It really is a " catch-22 " .

I guess, that's where I have mixed feelings on what to strive for with Mac

as he gets older. I guess, his personality and personal preferences will

lead me in the right direction. I do want the typical kids to befriend him,

to look out for him, to sit by him at lunch, to advocate for him, to say

" hi " to him in the hall, to volunteer to help him with special

projects....however, realistically, I don't see them calling him on the

phone regularly, taking him along to basketball games, etc... I could be

wrong (I hope I am), but it has not been my experience. But, I do want him

to have some meaningful and important friendships so if that means those

friendships will be cultivated and grow better spending some time in a

self-contained classroom I will do that for him. Friends are a very

important part of all of our lives.

Also, just from my observations. Over the past 17 years I've worked with

about 11 (11 that I can think of right now) kids with DS. Out of those,

4, I believe, spent most or all of their years of school in a segregated

school setting. Those 4 are the highest functioning of the bunch! Two live

on their own with minimal support, one lives in an apartment with another

person with developmental delays with daily support (just someone checking

in on them), the other one lives at home, but is certainly capable of living

on her own and probably will someday. Two of these work in the community,

two of them work at the sheltered workshop or for the sheltered workshop by

choice. They chose to work there because that is where they felt most

comfortable and successful and they're HAPPY there. The other 7 of the kids

with DS that I know have spent most or all of their years of school in the

public school setting, (but often in a self-contained classroom) and none of

them are as independent and successful as the other four that attended the

segregated school. I can only see 1-2 of them being successfully employed

in the community and probably only those same two living independently or

semi-independently. I realize there are many other factors that play into

how " high-functioning " , self-sufficient, independent...a child is going to

be, but it certainly gives food for thought.

Sorry to be so wordy...this certainly is a topic with a lot of ifs, ands,

buts, maybes AND possibilities.

Jill

Mac's (2 3/4) mom

OH

Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

>

>

> > Hi All,

> > I have a son, who is 20 years old! I have to say, I never

understood,why

> > parents wanted their child in a classroom, where they needed an aide or

> two,

> > for them to succeed in the room! These teachers of typical kids, do not

> have

> > the ability or the desire to handle children with disabilities!!!!!!!

> These

> > children of special needs, do not get it in a room full of typical kids!

> They

> > are always at the bottom of the list,striving to MAKE it! I believe, our

> kids

> > should be known and acknowledged, but why not put them in a classroom

> > appropiate for them! This way, they accomplish and succeed, with an

> > appropriate teacher, who can see what that child needs, and excel with

> that

> > student. That is what the special ed teachers are educated for! Yes,

some

> of

> > our kids can do the work, some can excel and use it in the future! I

say

> go

> > for it! But If your kid, cannot do what the typical kid does in the

> classroom

> > or in gym, WHY would you want them to feel inferior, I say love your

> child,

> > and put them in the best program, that will make them grow, not struggle

> to

> > be something that is not them!!!!!!!!!!!

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I agree. There are pros and cons and, at some point, you have to decide what

are the most important and necessary skills/facts/information to teach your

child. Some kids will be able to learn most of the academic stuff as well as

the necessary life skills, whereas others may need to have a curriculum more

focused on the life skills and independent living. As with everything else much

depends on the individual child.

Jill

Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

I think l can see why the " children " from the segregated school

situation might be more self sufficient adults. The girl I know that went

through that, was taught more of those things. In her case, she never

learned to read or heard of history or science etc, but they did teach her

more about cooking and laundry and things like that, more of the Life Skills

kind of things, which isn't bad. In an academic settings they are learning

different things. This may not be true in every case but often is. Jessie