Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/1/2001 10:27:52 AM Central Standard Time,

b4alltoday@... writes:

<< Sara during her whole PE class yesterday and they were doing an

activity Sara could not do. They did NOT modify and Sara was left to fail in

front of three 2nd grade classes. They made no attempt to rectify this and

my

birdie told me " no wonder Sara acts up here " she knows Sara soooo good and

has worked with her a few years ago. She totally disagrees with the theory

of

Sara's space issues. She said she knows Sara is acting up when the class

curriculum is NOT being modified >>

Kathy is your PE teacher qualified in DAPE? that might help. Otherwise if

she is not insist that bothe theREg.PE teacher and the DAPE teacher in the

district attend the IEP meetings to help write and modify 's goals for

PE. attends bothe DAPE and the reg PE class, theDAPE is to help

develope theskills needed toplay. Also in something like flag football they

had rules about not touching her flag at first (the teacher wanted her to

run, hehe since she now does they can get her flag)

So get the right person in there and write the goals. .... I thought thatmost

PE teachers were getting the DAPE part cause when jake went to get his

teaching degree he had to do a class on writing goals. Maybe it varies by

state. :-/

Joy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/1/2001 7:54:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,

JTesmer799@... writes:

> Kathy is your PE teacher qualified in DAPE?

What is DAPE?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/1/01 7:04:15 PM Central Standard Time, C1ndysue1 writes:

>

> << Kathy is your PE teacher qualified in DAPE? >>

>

>

> What is DAPE?

Heehee I just emailed Joy and asked her the same thing lololol anyone else

have PE goals or is the curriculum just modified?

Thanks

Kathy mom to Sara 9

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/1/2001 7:04:15 PM Central Standard Time, C1ndysue1

writes:

<<

<< Kathy is your PE teacher qualified in DAPE? >>

What is DAPE? >>

those seem to be the letters that Robin puts after her name on the IEP.

something to do with adaptive physed. not sure about the d. that's probably

develomental?

Joy

[Guest guest]

In Ohio--I think it's all of Ohio--although PE is supposed to be addressed

in the IEP--it does not have to be provided by a certified APE (adapted/ive

physical education) person. It can be provided by anyone. We used to have

APE provided by a PE instructor with dual certification (PE and APE). But,

do to budget cuts, faculty cutbacks, etc...we no longer receive the service.

The kids still have APE on their IEP--but I provide the APE. I have no

background in PE--just special ed. There is no curriculum to follow--I

just provide gross motor activities 3-5x's per week. I work closely with

the PT and OT on this and we do a variety of things--from just taking a

walk, to balloon activities, obstacle courses, therapy ball play.....

I know in our whole county there are only 2 teachers with the APE

certification--I imagine it may be the same in many counties.

Jill

Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

> In a message dated 2/1/01 7:04:15 PM Central Standard Time, C1ndysue1

writes:

>

> >

> > << Kathy is your PE teacher qualified in DAPE? >>

> >

> >

> > What is DAPE?

>

> Heehee I just emailed Joy and asked her the same thing lololol anyone else

> have PE goals or is the curriculum just modified?

>

> Thanks

>

> Kathy mom to Sara 9

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You can legally request in writing that the PE teacher (or any teacher who

teaches your daughter) attend the IEP meeting, especially if there are

issues involved. Sounds like they need a little training in inclusion to

me.

Elaine

School blues or maybe my mood lol

> HI

>

> I debated typing this, but I am in such a funk right now, soooo this might

be

> a vent Heehee

>

> Update on Sara's year.....so far since Christmas break has been over with

I

> thought everything was running pretty smoothly. I have had sooo many IEP

> meetings this year to plan make sure Sara will succeed, in all areas. She

had

> a FBA done in the fall and their conclusions were that if kids get in

Sara's

> space she tends to get a bit aggressive. I didn't totally agree because

kids

> are always in her space at home and we don't have the same problems but

what

> the heck I let them talk and we drew up a good positive plan. Sara's been

> taught appropriate actions and has had time to practice them in her daily

> life. We also met (the team) to discuss modifications in all areas of her

> day. They assured me this was being done. Her weakest areas are her MAPS

> (music, art and PE) she has an aide/assistant for SS, Science, music, art

and

> lunch....NOT PE since a Reg Ed 2nd grade teacher is always in there. These

> areas are the areas of her day she really can act up....defiant,

aggressive

> etc.......

>

> Well, I have a meeting tomorrow to discuss what assessment are necessary

for

> Sara's Triennial. My " Little Birdie " who I dearly love and trust called

this

> morning to tell me I need to find some way to address Sara and PE. She

> watched Sara during her whole PE class yesterday and they were doing an

> activity Sara could not do. They did NOT modify and Sara was left to fail

in

> front of three 2nd grade classes. They made no attempt to rectify this and

my

> birdie told me " no wonder Sara acts up here " she knows Sara soooo good and

> has worked with her a few years ago. She totally disagrees with the theory

of

> Sara's space issues. She said she knows Sara is acting up when the class

> curriculum is NOT being modified.

>

> Now here in TN MAP teachers do not go to the IEP meetings and Im pretty

sure

> they never had any inservices on Special Ed But come on, how hard is

to

> modify PE. They know Sara cannot jump rope and to make her stand in line

> (which she does well and then attempt to jump in front of everyone is

> ridiculous. How hard is it to maybe give her a task, like hold a clipboard

> and count jumps kids are making?? you know other stuff to do that she can

> succeed in.

>

> I have always been a very honest person, but this whole Special Ed thing

has

> made me a schemer, liar, etc..... qualities I hate in others. I have to

> protect my sources of info, which I don't mind doing but wooooooo the

person

> I have to become

>

> OK sorry for the whine, Im getting very frustrated in this whole mess,

> especially when I thought all was going well. Maybe my mood is from all

being

> sick this week, so far Im the only one well and I don't know how long that

> will last Heehee

> 90 kids were out of school yesterday with this awful virus that is rampid

>

> Thanks for listening

>

> Kathy mom to Sara 9

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I got inspired to go and ask Maverick's teacher and aide to be more

positive with him. He came home the other day and had earned a can of pop

and I was asking him how his day was and he said... " No problems. " That made

me really sad...I wanted to hear about his DAY....not his behavior, but he

was so keyed into what his behavior was supposed to be. THEN, the next day

he got his pop and in front of the aide, I was praising him... and the aide

said, " Well, NOW we have to work on not talking in the hallway. " I told her

she just needed to concentrate for now on that he had a good day and let him

have some praise. One day the teacher and the aide were talking about what

they were going to write in the communication log. The class was supposed to

be silent reading. Mav stared at them and then started knocking on his desk.

He got their attention. He got in trouble. I told them that he probably

felt embarrassed that they were discussing him. I asked them if there were a

time and place where they could discuss what they were going to write without

him, and the whole class knowing it. They said no. THEN, I commented on

the fact that they wrote since Christmas his bahavior has not been very

co-operative and he has not been doing his work with out much coaxing. I

changed his morning routine so that he doesn't get to have breakfast at

school and things like that so he can earn them back.....BUT, as I thought

about it and discussed it with my husband..we realized that THEY are the ones

who made the changes in the classroom so now he transitions to another

Language Arts class in the morning. That is a change in his schedule and

they are just expecting him to take it in stride. I was in the classroom

observing the other day and I was so impressed. Other than the aide having

to help him when it was his turn to read aloud, he was on task and paying

attention and keeping up with the class. I was disappointed that the teacher

didn't comment on that to him. Also, he gets timed out for tapping the

pencil. The teacher tells him to stop and if he doesn't .....he gets timed

out. Well, I tried to explain that if they ignored it in the first

place....he would have stopped. Next, it was the breaking of the pencil lead

so he can sharpen his pencil a million times. I said, ignore it and make him

use the marker to do his work...he won't like THAT...

What this disjointed letter is saying is that.... I am so frustrated... My

husband went with me and we just were trying to point out that possibly they

could praise more and ignore more. They just didn't get it and are mad at

me. I was very polite and diplomatic and we complimented them on what they

were doing...but they just were not receptive and were very defensive from

the start.

Ok....just had to vent.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

has an APE teacher and in my school where I work there is also and APE

teacher. So I guess in NYC, there are more than 2 certified teachers! LOL

amanda also goes to regular PE with her class and the para sorta works with

her. Ive never even met with the PE teacher. Have met with the APE teacher,

though. I just have her in reg PE, so she feels more like part of her class

even though she cant do most of the stuff.

[Guest guest]

Hi Kim,

We do have a positive behavior plan,,, the teacher is supposed to give him

poker chips when he is staying on task, or behaving.....but she doesn't. We

even had that written into the IEP.

I did suggest at one point that if he was such a behavior problem than maybe

we needed an FBA...but he really ISN'T that much of a problem so the teacher

backed down.

[Guest guest]

, it sounds like you need to have a positive behavior plan where we

extinguish a negative behavior with a positive one. By the way, who

developed the behavior plan? School Pysch? If so, perhaps you need a full

FBA done that reinforces positive behaviors....

just my two cents... Kim.

Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

Well, I got inspired to go and ask Maverick's teacher and aide to be more

positive with him. He came home the other day and had earned a can of pop

and I was asking him how his day was and he said... " No problems. " That made

me really sad...I wanted to hear about his DAY....not his behavior, but he

was so keyed into what his behavior was supposed to be. THEN, the next day

he got his pop and in front of the aide, I was praising him... and the aide

said, " Well, NOW we have to work on not talking in the hallway. " I told

her

she just needed to concentrate for now on that he had a good day and let him

have some praise. One day the teacher and the aide were talking about what

they were going to write in the communication log. The class was supposed

to

be silent reading. Mav stared at them and then started knocking on his

desk.

He got their attention. He got in trouble. I told them that he probably

felt embarrassed that they were discussing him. I asked them if there were

a

time and place where they could discuss what they were going to write

without

him, and the whole class knowing it. They said no. THEN, I commented on

the fact that they wrote since Christmas his bahavior has not been very

co-operative and he has not been doing his work with out much coaxing. I

changed his morning routine so that he doesn't get to have breakfast at

school and things like that so he can earn them back.....BUT, as I thought

about it and discussed it with my husband..we realized that THEY are the

ones

who made the changes in the classroom so now he transitions to another

Language Arts class in the morning. That is a change in his schedule and

they are just expecting him to take it in stride. I was in the classroom

observing the other day and I was so impressed. Other than the aide having

to help him when it was his turn to read aloud, he was on task and paying

attention and keeping up with the class. I was disappointed that the

teacher

didn't comment on that to him. Also, he gets timed out for tapping the

pencil. The teacher tells him to stop and if he doesn't .....he gets timed

out. Well, I tried to explain that if they ignored it in the first

place....he would have stopped. Next, it was the breaking of the pencil

lead

so he can sharpen his pencil a million times. I said, ignore it and make

him

use the marker to do his work...he won't like THAT...

What this disjointed letter is saying is that.... I am so frustrated... My

husband went with me and we just were trying to point out that possibly they

could praise more and ignore more. They just didn't get it and are mad at

me. I was very polite and diplomatic and we complimented them on what they

were doing...but they just were not receptive and were very defensive from

the start.

Ok....just had to vent.

[Guest guest]

You should ask the PE teacher to come. We did this several years ago when

some issue involving PE came up--the PE teacher said it was the first time

she had ever been to an IEP meeting in all her years as a teacher and she

seemed to get a lot out of it as well as providing the rest of the team with

some really good accurate information about what that class was like and how

Jess did in it.

An interesting side, this teacher did all PE k-5 and was at the school until

Jess was in 4th. The teacher was a jump rope fanatic (had a jump rope team

and everything), so she focused a lot on working with Jess on that skill.

Teacher was so proud to report at the end of 4th that Jess was starting to

do some doubledutch jumping successfully. I guess the point is that if the

teacher wants the child to succeed, they have to care enough to do some real

coaching and cheerleading as well as just teaching.

Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

You can legally request in writing that the PE teacher (or any teacher who

teaches your daughter) attend the IEP meeting, especially if there are

issues involved. Sounds like they need a little training in inclusion to

me.

Elaine

School blues or maybe my mood lol

> HI

>

> I debated typing this, but I am in such a funk right now, soooo this might

be

> a vent Heehee

>

> Update on Sara's year.....so far since Christmas break has been over with

I

> thought everything was running pretty smoothly. I have had sooo many IEP

> meetings this year to plan make sure Sara will succeed, in all areas. She

had

> a FBA done in the fall and their conclusions were that if kids get in

Sara's

> space she tends to get a bit aggressive. I didn't totally agree because

kids

> are always in her space at home and we don't have the same problems but

what

> the heck I let them talk and we drew up a good positive plan. Sara's been

> taught appropriate actions and has had time to practice them in her daily

> life. We also met (the team) to discuss modifications in all areas of her

> day. They assured me this was being done. Her weakest areas are her MAPS

> (music, art and PE) she has an aide/assistant for SS, Science, music, art

and

> lunch....NOT PE since a Reg Ed 2nd grade teacher is always in there. These

> areas are the areas of her day she really can act up....defiant,

aggressive

> etc.......

>

> Well, I have a meeting tomorrow to discuss what assessment are necessary

for

> Sara's Triennial. My " Little Birdie " who I dearly love and trust called

this

> morning to tell me I need to find some way to address Sara and PE. She

> watched Sara during her whole PE class yesterday and they were doing an

> activity Sara could not do. They did NOT modify and Sara was left to fail

in

> front of three 2nd grade classes. They made no attempt to rectify this and

my

> birdie told me " no wonder Sara acts up here " she knows Sara soooo good and

> has worked with her a few years ago. She totally disagrees with the theory

of

> Sara's space issues. She said she knows Sara is acting up when the class

> curriculum is NOT being modified.

>

> Now here in TN MAP teachers do not go to the IEP meetings and Im pretty

sure

> they never had any inservices on Special Ed But come on, how hard is

to

> modify PE. They know Sara cannot jump rope and to make her stand in line

> (which she does well and then attempt to jump in front of everyone is

> ridiculous. How hard is it to maybe give her a task, like hold a clipboard

> and count jumps kids are making?? you know other stuff to do that she can

> succeed in.

>

> I have always been a very honest person, but this whole Special Ed thing

has

> made me a schemer, liar, etc..... qualities I hate in others. I have to

> protect my sources of info, which I don't mind doing but wooooooo the

person

> I have to become

>

> OK sorry for the whine, Im getting very frustrated in this whole mess,

> especially when I thought all was going well. Maybe my mood is from all

being

> sick this week, so far Im the only one well and I don't know how long that

> will last Heehee

> 90 kids were out of school yesterday with this awful virus that is rampid

>

> Thanks for listening

>

> Kathy mom to Sara 9

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Does he get to convert the chips into something he wants (if she remembers

to give them)? Does he have a chart of some type so she can remember and so

there's some criteria for ontask/behaving?

Judi

Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

Hi Kim,

We do have a positive behavior plan,,, the teacher is supposed to give him

poker chips when he is staying on task, or behaving.....but she doesn't. We

even had that written into the IEP.

I did suggest at one point that if he was such a behavior problem than maybe

we needed an FBA...but he really ISN'T that much of a problem so the teacher

backed down.

[Guest guest]

HI

You know Ive been thinking about your issues and it really ticks me off.

There is a BIG difference of a team, deliberately not following the IEP and a

team who is ignorant on how to follow an IEP. In your case they are

deliberately not following your sons. I whine sometimes on how clueless Sara

team can be but so far I don't think they are deliberately NOT following it.

How unfair it is for a group of adults to NOT act in the best or appropriate

interest of a child uggggg BIG uggggg I know my participation at our meetings

gives Sara's team an insight that they were not aware of.....sometimes we

even debate lol but we end with a result of what's best or appropriate.

Because of the lack of knowledge/experience I have to work my tail off to

make sure that, all that can be done....is being done. That's just one reason

this list is sooo important Heehee I had no idea to call in an APE for our

team Heehee and one will be called in at the Spring meeting

You know you get to a point where it's in the IEP and they are not following

it so maybe the recourse should be the copy of Doe vs. Withers.......hand

delivered to the school

<A

HREF= " http://www.wrightslaw.com/law/caselaw/case_Doe_Withers_Complaint.html " >

slaw - The Circuit Court of County, West Virginia</A>

I do know of a Mom slapping a copy of this on a teachers desk and the results

were amazing Heehee brought a new light on the subject of modifying

Anyway know I feel for you, it gets sooo frustrating when you only want

what's appropriate for your child

Kathy mom to Sara 9..........who told the team yesterday that I will be

wearing a T-shirt saying " Official Member of the IEP team " Heehee they loved

that lol

[Guest guest]

They had 2 awards assemblies this week at 's school. The

first was Wed. afternoon received an award for perfect

attendence. I was a little disappointed that he didn't get one for

penmanship as his writing has improved this past quarter. The

other kids have noticed this evidently NOT the teachers! When it

was time for Penmanship awards 2 girls sitting accross from us

said to me with great excitment " should be getting an award

because his writing is really improving! " There excitement made me

feel good. Then on Thursday morning they had another awards

assembly for the Accelerated Reader Program and was to

get an award for this. I get there and go sit with towards the

end his aid takes his certificate up to the teachers and I can tell

they are not happy with this. His aide comes back to sit with us

and doesn't want to tell me. I said to her " they aren't going to give it

to him are they? " she says " no, even though he met his monthy

goal he didn't meet the criteria for the program " I wanted to stomp

up there and shake somebody I was soooooo mad, and it is all

coming back as I type this. I only found out in December that he

wasn't doing the program and pushed to get them doing it with him.

Then to have this happen new he was suppose to be getting

another award. The reg ed teacher said she would give it to him in

the classroom (big whooopy) and that hasn't even happened! When

I left school Thurs. the Spec. ed. director was not in and I couldn't

get up to school Friday. I would rather handle this in person then

with a phone call. We are having a meeting Tues. with the Behavior

Anlyist (sp) that came in last year, had been doing so well

this year and now behaviors are starting up again.

Well thats my vent for the week thanks for listening.

Tena

mailto:tmac@...

[Guest guest]

, I think this violates confidentiality. If they don't have time to

discuss things that are definitely private and confidential, then perhaps

you could put it in the IEP that there will be time made or something. I

really think this is utterly inappropriate.

It also sounds like they need a little training in positive behavioral

intervention. Whatever happened to the old axiom " If you can't say anything

nice, don't say anything at all. "

Elaine

Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

> Well, I got inspired to go and ask Maverick's teacher and aide to be more

> positive with him. He came home the other day and had earned a can of pop

> and I was asking him how his day was and he said... " No problems. " That

made

> me really sad...I wanted to hear about his DAY....not his behavior, but he

> was so keyed into what his behavior was supposed to be. THEN, the next

day

> he got his pop and in front of the aide, I was praising him... and the

aide

> said, " Well, NOW we have to work on not talking in the hallway. " I told

her

> she just needed to concentrate for now on that he had a good day and let

him

> have some praise. One day the teacher and the aide were talking about

what

> they were going to write in the communication log. The class was supposed

to

> be silent reading. Mav stared at them and then started knocking on his

desk.

> He got their attention. He got in trouble. I told them that he probably

> felt embarrassed that they were discussing him. I asked them if there

were a

> time and place where they could discuss what they were going to write

without

> him, and the whole class knowing it. They said no. THEN, I commented on

> the fact that they wrote since Christmas his bahavior has not been very

> co-operative and he has not been doing his work with out much coaxing. I

> changed his morning routine so that he doesn't get to have breakfast at

> school and things like that so he can earn them back.....BUT, as I thought

> about it and discussed it with my husband..we realized that THEY are the

ones

> who made the changes in the classroom so now he transitions to another

> Language Arts class in the morning. That is a change in his schedule and

> they are just expecting him to take it in stride. I was in the classroom

> observing the other day and I was so impressed. Other than the aide

having

> to help him when it was his turn to read aloud, he was on task and paying

> attention and keeping up with the class. I was disappointed that the

teacher

> didn't comment on that to him. Also, he gets timed out for tapping the

> pencil. The teacher tells him to stop and if he doesn't .....he gets

timed

> out. Well, I tried to explain that if they ignored it in the first

> place....he would have stopped. Next, it was the breaking of the pencil

lead

> so he can sharpen his pencil a million times. I said, ignore it and make

him

> use the marker to do his work...he won't like THAT...

> What this disjointed letter is saying is that.... I am so frustrated...

My

> husband went with me and we just were trying to point out that possibly

they

> could praise more and ignore more. They just didn't get it and are mad at

> me. I was very polite and diplomatic and we complimented them on what

they

> were doing...but they just were not receptive and were very defensive from

> the start.

> Ok....just had to vent.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, it sounds like the teacher could use some behavior support training.

If she is not following the plan then the school is out of compliance with

the IEP. Kim.

Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

Hi Kim,

We do have a positive behavior plan,,, the teacher is supposed to give him

poker chips when he is staying on task, or behaving.....but she doesn't. We

even had that written into the IEP.

I did suggest at one point that if he was such a behavior problem than maybe

we needed an FBA...but he really ISN'T that much of a problem so the teacher

backed down.

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

I have a son, who is 20 years old! I have to say, I never understood,why

parents wanted their child in a classroom, where they needed an aide or two,

for them to succeed in the room! These teachers of typical kids, do not have

the ability or the desire to handle children with disabilities!!!!!!! These

children of special needs, do not get it in a room full of typical kids! They

are always at the bottom of the list,striving to MAKE it! I believe, our kids

should be known and acknowledged, but why not put them in a classroom

appropiate for them! This way, they accomplish and succeed, with an

appropriate teacher, who can see what that child needs, and excel with that

student. That is what the special ed teachers are educated for! Yes, some of

our kids can do the work, some can excel and use it in the future! I say go

for it! But If your kid, cannot do what the typical kid does in the classroom

or in gym, WHY would you want them to feel inferior, I say love your child,

and put them in the best program, that will make them grow, not struggle to

be something that is not them!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

Hi ...........don't know your name...sorry

Because you don't understand why we want our kids in the Reg Ed class for

something as simple as PE Ill fill you in

First it is not my choice, it's the state's choice.....PE, Art, Music are the

areas our kids have to take. In Sara's school there is NO self contained PE.

Number two it is Sara's choice, this is where her friends are at and

thirdly it's my choice because I have seen Sara flourish with language

abilities just being around typical kids........I do complain but I really do

love her chatter even if it's sassy.

A little history, Sara Reg Ed 2nd grade teacher requested her. She taught

Kindy when Sara was in Kindy (she was right next door to Sara's class) She

may be new to all of this but she, more than anyone else, wants Sara to

succeed. She has a heart of gold and again is a great member of Sara's team.

As a parent I am able to do more research about my daughter than a Reg Ed

teacher could. I have more at stake Heehee but this teacher has the ability

to listen and learn from ME now I have been very fortunate at Sara's

school, we really haven't had a bad Reg Ed teacher yet, who knows we might

meet one years to come but for now I can say that they do care, and they do

want Sara to succeed (the only problem is they have little knowledge on how

to but Im workign on that heehee)

Times are changing, the role of a Sped teachers is not only for a

self-contained classroom. Sara's sped teacher works with Sara's program for

the whole day. She helps the Reg Ed teachers modify the curriculum, help with

behavior issues etc. She is available for Sara's team at all times.

Something's get missed but believe me I get them straighten out

quickly....like the jump rope issue.

When I made the decision to let Sara go into the Reg classroom it was not

without careful thought. I wanted good speech role models for her, I wanted

the same curriculum offered (Science and social studies are not in the self

contained classrooms) I wanted typical peer relationships, neighborhood kids

to come over and play. I wanted the world opened up for Sara, because the

world is hers to have, as well as her typical peers. I would have short

changed Sara if I only offered her segregation, this is not appropriate for

her, for what she wants. Sara learns best with 23.....9 yr. olds as teachers

Kathy mom to Sara 9........who will never be at the bottom of a list lol her

last name starts with J Heehee couldn't resist lolol

In a message dated 2/6/01 10:15:23 PM Central Standard Time, DeVanna9@...

writes:

> Hi All,

> I have a son, who is 20 years old! I have to say, I never understood,why

> parents wanted their child in a classroom, where they needed an aide or

two,

>

> for them to succeed in the room! These teachers of typical kids, do not

have

>

> the ability or the desire to handle children with disabilities!!!!!!!

These

> children of special needs, do not get it in a room full of typical kids!

> They

> are always at the bottom of the list,striving to MAKE it! I believe, our

> kids

> should be known and acknowledged, but why not put them in a classroom

> appropiate for them! This way, they accomplish and succeed, with an

> appropriate teacher, who can see what that child needs, and excel with

that

> student. That is what the special ed teachers are educated for! Yes, some

of

>

> our kids can do the work, some can excel and use it in the future! I say

go

>

> for it! But If your kid, cannot do what the typical kid does in the

> classroom

> or in gym, WHY would you want them to feel inferior, I say love your

child,

> and put them in the best program, that will make them grow, not struggle

to

> be something that is not them!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

My son's regular first grade teacher requested him for her classroom. She

does have the ability and the desire to teach my son. So does next years

teacher. The kids do desire to help and befriend him. My son is not a Pet,

nor will he ever be. He's my son and he is an individual. He is learning

quite a bit and even exceeds some of his classroom peers in some areas.

I was talking in the chat last night and stated a few times that attitude of

the school makes a huge difference. If the school administrators were

educated in the 70's themselves, then they are stuck with the old mindset for

the most part. Todays teachers and administrators have been better educated

to meet the needs of all students. Luckily those old educators are retiring.

Special ed teachers to an awesome job helping our children and their teachers

in a regular classroom. I know my sons teacher ranks right up there with

people I must respect. She does work with him in a resource room for reading

and math. She works so hard and does a terrific job.

I do support parents choices and some kids need a more retrictive setting.

Inclusion may not be for all children.

I celebrate Luther King day because of his involvement and leadership

in the civil rights movement. He not only died for blacks, but for people

with disabilities. I will be eternally grateful for his sacrificies. His

dream is shared by many of us parents.

, whose sons last name starts with C and will never be on the bottom of

the list!!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/7/2001 3:57:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,

bspyle@... writes:

>

> I totally and whole heartedly agree, DeVanna! Why place your child in a

> situation where he will ALWAYS be either a pet or low man on the totem pole,

> forever doomed to frustration? I just do not see the advantage ... for the

> special needs child, the other students or the teachers.

>

>

Granny...come visit with us and 's school for one day. You'll change

your mind.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/7/01 2:57:45 AM Central Standard Time, bspyle@...

writes:

> I totally and whole heartedly agree, DeVanna! Why place your child in a

> situation where he will ALWAYS be either a pet or low man on the totem

pole,

> forever doomed to frustration? I just do not see the advantage ... for the

> special needs child, the other students or the teachers.

>

> granny

OooooH Granny I can see you agreeing to the previous post but to assume

all of our kids are looked at as Pets hmmmmmmm and you cannot see any

advantage??? For anyone?? Am I too assume has suffered no frustrations

because she was educated in that " Magic " room called Sped Ed AKA Self

Contained???

Come on, all kids suffer a degree of frustration, shoot I'm suffering it

right now lolol It gets pretty old when we try and try again to defend our

" choices " I try very hard to make all (society) understand my choices but to

no avail

Please remember that different approaches make our country what it is, our

kids who they are. I think you would be quite impressed with Sara's so called

lower totem pole personality Heehee she sees herself as quite a Prima Dona

(thanks to family, friends and SCHOOL personal so please don't tell her

she's a mere pet, doomed to frustration lololol

Kathy mom to Sara 9.............and not everyone can be at the top of the

class....I never was

[Guest guest]

I totally and whole heartedly agree, DeVanna! Why place your child in a

situation where he will ALWAYS be either a pet or low man on the totem pole,

forever doomed to frustration? I just do not see the advantage ... for the

special needs child, the other students or the teachers.

granny

---

" Beautiful that war and all its deeds of carnage must

in time be utterly lost. " -- Walt Whitman

http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html

Re: School blues or maybe my mood lol

> Hi All,

> I have a son, who is 20 years old! I have to say, I never understood,why

> parents wanted their child in a classroom, where they needed an aide or

two,

> for them to succeed in the room! These teachers of typical kids, do not

have

> the ability or the desire to handle children with disabilities!!!!!!!

These

> children of special needs, do not get it in a room full of typical kids!

They

> are always at the bottom of the list,striving to MAKE it! I believe, our

kids

> should be known and acknowledged, but why not put them in a classroom

> appropiate for them! This way, they accomplish and succeed, with an

> appropriate teacher, who can see what that child needs, and excel with

that

> student. That is what the special ed teachers are educated for! Yes, some

of

> our kids can do the work, some can excel and use it in the future! I say

go

> for it! But If your kid, cannot do what the typical kid does in the

classroom

> or in gym, WHY would you want them to feel inferior, I say love your

child,

> and put them in the best program, that will make them grow, not struggle

to

> be something that is not them!!!!!!!!!!!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Why do I want my son educated in a regular classroom?

Because he IS my son, and I want for him what I want for all my children and

all children who aren't mine but have the same right.

In our district anyway, if my son were in the self-contained, (sp ed room),

his education would not be as intense as it is now. The children in the sp

ed room are working on ABC's and number recognition. There are more

disruptions for them and more free time. In the regular education classroom,

not only is Maverick getting a better education, he is learning to fit into

social situations. He is learning to sit in his seat and raise his hand and

transition to other classes. He has friends in the reg ed classroom. He was

chosen by his peers to be the class student council repesentative. He is on

the basketball court or playing tetherball with the rest of his typical

peers...while the other sp ed children are on the sidelines because they

don't know HOW to interact with the typical children.

My son is reading, doing math, writing reports on Indians, making volcanos,

building habitats..whatever the rest of the class is doing.....and yes, he

needs the support of an aide, and he is certainly NOT working at the 4th

grade level, but the aide is also there to help the rest of the classroom

when THEY need it.

I see my son's classmates reaching out and getting to know him and learning

when he needs help and when he just needs to be included. (THESE are our

future educators and law makers and MY SON is teaching them!) I see teachers

reaching out and requesting the privelege of educating my son, and I see

teachers who were hesitant to teach my son learning and growing richer as a

person AND a teacher because of this experience.

And, I see a FUTURE for my son that involves more than working in a sheltered

workshop or sitting home with Mom. I see him having a much more independent

life, being more involved in making his choices, perhaps not total

independence, but certainly more than if he were not given this opportunity.

I feel that if I did NOT make sure Maverick was fully included I would be

negligent as a parent. Now PLEASE bear in mind that this is what I feel is

best for MY CHILD...and I am NOT saying that anyone who chooses a different

path is not a good parent or is doing things wrong. We each have our own

beliefs and goals, and we need to not only work hard on those, but work hard

on accepting that there are those with different priorities, desires for

their children, styles of parenting.

I know that even as I sit frustrated at times, and spend much of my time

teaching the teachers, I still am doing what I feel is best for my son and I

will never look back and say, I wish I had done this!

As far as a class pet? Not my son, and don't even try it, he would not allow

it!

Mom to Maverick who will Never be at the bottom of the list with a

name beginning with F and because he just plain wouldn't tolerate it!!! (Now

WHERE did he get that fighting spirit?)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/7/01 8:51:51 AM Central Standard Time,

pjenney1@... writes:

> But I have no other choice. My

> son is being segregated and I can tell is lonely for

> the first time. Pam

HI Pam

Exactly, I don't think our kids act up do to the frustration of not being

viewed as worthy or typical but maybe an inappropriate IEP....like not the

right objectives taught (Sara's case lol) or placement or services rendered.

I don't think the Reg Ed teachers cringe when our kids come into their

classes because they view them as Pets but maybe they cringe because they

themselves feel inadequate, not prepared......the fault of our Administration

(the purse strings). I have taken the role to help them prepare, it's a daily

journey but sooo worth it we all make mistakes in this journey but we work

as a team to rectify them immediately.

Just let me say I feel for anyone who has to live with the Pet Mentality

going on, count me in as being fortunate Ive never experienced that lol well

hubby calls me his pet Heehee BUT I bet he doesn't anymore lololol

Its OK to say " Inclusion is NOT right for MY child " but to be Anti-Inclusion

just because of past experiences is not fair and damaging to those who want

choices. I have some pretty neg., feelings toward self-contained but would

never share them. You will only hear what works for Sara Heehee or maybe

another kid I have seen thrive

Kathy mom to Sara 9..............OK Im done heehee well I hope, I am very

passionate when it comes to choices and respect that I think we ALL deserve

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/7/01 2:57:45 AM Central Standard Time, bspyle@...

writes:

> I totally and whole heartedly agree, DeVanna! Why place your child in a

> situation where he will ALWAYS be either a pet or low man on the totem

pole,

> forever doomed to frustration? I just do not see the advantage ... for the

> special needs child, the other students or the teachers.

>

> granny

Tsk, tsk, Granny........I've never met you, but based on your previous posts,

I had taken you to be a wise, thoughtful woman. Can you really see NO

advantage in an inclusive classroom to the special needs child, the other

student, or the teachers?

I understand that you feel that was best served in her self-contained

classroom, but please consider the following.........

Jimmy (my special needs child) is receiving a far better education, both

academically and socially, by being included. He, too, is not the " low man

on the totem pole " academically (although I do agree that the day will

probably come when he will be.......). But for now, he is learning much

more than the children in the " blended " classroom (my district's slightly

modified version of self-contained). He is light years ahead of him same

age peers with Down syndrome in terms of reading, math and independence. I

believe that part of this is due to inherent capabilities, but a LARGE part

is also due to his academic placement. He takes pride in his work, and is a

fully participating member of his classroom. He is learning to function in

" normal society " by participating in it fully.

The children in Jimmy's class have, for the most part, learned that people

with differences have value and can contribute to their community. Again,

they have learned this by Jimmy's full participation in their school life.

He doesn't just " drop in " to show that he also eats sandwiches for lunch, or

can put a paintbrush to paper, or do a jumping jack. He shows them on a

daily basis that he can do almost everything that they can do - and that some

of them, he can do BETTER than they can! They know that he doesn't talk as

well as they do, and that he sometimes doesn't behave appropriately - but

they have learned to deal with the challenges created by being Jimmy's friend

in an appropriate way. They have learned to be comfortable around

Jimmy........something that I don't believe would've happened if they didn't

spend the whole school day with him. I think there's much MORE danger of his

being treated as a " pet " if he wasn't fully included. There are several

students in Jimmy's class that benefit directly from needing to accomodate

his different learning style. He's not the only one in the class that

benefits from more " hands on " learning!! These children would not receive

the extra help that they get if Jimmy's aide weren't there to provide

additional assistance to Jim AND them. Lastly, the children that ARE good

learners also benefit from helping Jimmy. They gain in self-confidence and

feel good about being able to provide assistance.

As for the teachers, almost every one of them has commented repeatedly on the

joys of having Jimmy in their classroom. They comment on the happiness they

feel when they seeing their students learn about being accepting of

differences. They comment on what they've learned by accomodating Jimmy's

learning differences....how it helps them with others in the classroom who

aren't formally identified as " special needs " . They speak of the joy of

accomplishment when they realize just how much Jimmy has learned. And they

thank us for letting them expand THEIR horizons and learn many of the

acceptance lessons that their students are learning. None of Jimmy's

teachers had ever had a child with a disability in their classroom before.

They all are anxious to do it again.

So, please, Granny - open your mind and at least think about the fact that

there are real benefits to inclusion..........for EVERYONE involved.

P.S. I call my grandmother " Granny " ..........she's one of the most wonderful

people I know - and also one of Jimmy's favorite people in the world. She

has been fully accepting of him and supportive from day one......