Re: HC early in the morning or last thing at night

[Guest guest]

Hi I have similar problems - I really have to work at controlling my anxiety. I'm trying mediation exercises at the moment and I am finding it helps. Mindfulness meditation makes you more aware of the times you do become anxious and that seems to help - I can recommend a book if you're interested.Anyway you asked about HC.I take my first dose at 7am and the last dose at 10pm when I go to bed. I have no problem sleeping but I usually wake up at about 6/6.30 and I have to wait until 7am for my first dose of HC. So between 6 and 7 I get all the symptoms of low cortisol - back and jaw ache, anxiety, etc. I just lie in bed and try to breathe it away and then I wait until 7.30 for the HC to take effect. I don't take a dose before 7am because then I'd end up taking too much.I hope that makes sense. It's horrible isn't it.All best, Alison

[Guest guest]

Hi Alison

do you find the hc does help your anxiety?

have you tried movign your dosing about, or something like medrol?

Medrol is too strong for me, feels horrible.

even before HC, mornings used to be my absolute worst time.

i used to use a dawn stimulating lamp, i think that helped a bit, maybe i should

try taht but have been wearing an eye mask for years so it's either one or the

other.

chris

[Guest guest]

ps - do you take DHEA with your HC? i would not take HC without taking dhea...

chris

[Guest guest]

what i'm wondering is is whether to set my alarm at 4am to take my morning dose.

I am not that familiar with 's methods but from what i've read on STTM,

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/t3-circadian-protocol-for-adrenals/

" 1.Most of the day's cortisol is made in the last four hours of sleep, i.e. the

four hours before you normally wake up. So, for example, if one normally wakes

up around 8 am, most cortisol is made from 4 -8 am. i.e. that four hour window

is when your adrenals work the hardest. "

So i wonder if i take HC very early, will it help me avoid these bad feelings i

get every day? (it kind of wears you down after a few years)

I don't know how long HC takes to get into the system. I know it takes me hours

to recover after my daily morning panic and come the evening, i'm ok. only to

start it all again the next day.

chris

>

> ps - do you take DHEA with your HC? i would not take HC without taking

dhea...

>

> chris

>

[Guest guest]

hi chris

what time do you normally wake up? if it were me i think i'd start by trying a

5 to 5.30am slot and see what happens

> what i'm wondering is is whether to set my alarm at 4am to take my morning

dose.

[Guest guest]

Hi HC gets into the system quite quickly - it takes about 30 to 40 minutes.So it may be worth your while trying an earlier dose. I suppose it depends how much you're taking altogether and making sure it doesn't disrupt the rest of the day's dosing schedule. Maybe the answer is to change gradually. I should be really interested to hear how an early morning dose works.Why don't you check it out with the adrenal group when they are back from their break. I understand that 's method accommodates thyroid problems only and doesn't take into account adrenal problems as a separate issue - personally, I am very wary of this theory - for me anyway - though I can see that it may well work if your main problem is thyroid.Those early bad morning feelings are horrible and I really do empathise. The meditation book I use is: 'Mindfulness' by Mark . It has a great CD which guides you through. I'm not a 'natural' meditation person - I couldn't get on with other types of meditation but this one is really helping me.No, I don't take DHEA. I understood that it could lower cortisol even more. Why do you say you should take ~DHEA with HC?My problem is that my body is not using cortisol effectively - either because of worn down receptors or because of toxins. When I rest enough then my body can use the cortisol ok and yes, I definitely feel less anxious.It's a bit of a spiral, I think, the more anxious you are, the more stress that places on the adrenals and then the more anxious you become again. The key is in breaking that anxiety loop - easier said than done.I really hope you sort it out. Do say how you get on.Best wishes, Alison> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi again,Sun and daylight are definitely a good thing. I sat in the sun for 20 minutes the other day and felt marvellous. As far as my dosing schedule goes, I've stuck to the current one for 8 months now - it's as good as I can get it:I take HC 6 times a day and I've been trying prednisolone for 2 months but this hasn't made a huge difference so I shall come off that soon, and then I may try medrol after a bit. But as I said my main problem is absorption of the cortisol.Good luck Alison>

[Guest guest]

Hi Trish

about 6, maybe 7....

not sure what time to take it. melatonin and HGH will lower Cortisol further...

chris

[Guest guest]

apparently being in the light will help activate the cortisol receptors?

where did you get your pred from?

chris

>

> Hi again,Sun and daylight are definitely a good thing. I sat in the sun

> for 20 minutes the other day and felt marvellous. As far as my dosing

> schedule goes, I've stuck to the current one for 8 months now - it's as

[Guest guest]

I think i took too much HC this morning

what happened is i woke feeling dreadful (my daily treat) , and tried to get

going, took HC. got stuck in traffic jam, went wrong way, got really stressed,

took more hc as was getting more stressed and had to take major detour. i

probably do take too much in the morning as i don't have enough time for it to

work after taking it before trying to get going. i thinka few years ago i

tried taking hc an hour before i got going and i think it helped.

> change gradually. I should be really interested to hear how an early

> morning dose works.Why don't you check it out with the adrenal group

> when they are back from their break. I understand that 's method

> accommodates thyroid problems only and doesn't take into account

Well, the adrenal group are down on what they're not keen on. they don't like

pregnenolone or dhea, and both have helped me. before taking both i was in a

much worse way. some people become pretty dogmatic. i'd sooner take Hertoghe's

advice as per : http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/adrenals5.php and also the fact that i

improved greatly with dhea and pregnenolone.

> problems as a separate issue - personally, I am very wary of this theory

> - for me anyway - though I can see that it may well work if your main

On STTM it says that " He states this protocol would only work if one does NOT

have diabetes, insulin resistance or other blood sugar regulation issues,

hypopituitary or 's disease. The latter conditions would dictate the use

of HC. But some patients who have blood sugar issues have been trying it anyway

and finding great success. "

> problem is thyroid.Those early bad morning feelings are horrible and I

> really do empathise. The meditation book I use is: 'Mindfulness' by Mark

> . It has a great CD which guides you through. I'm not a

Thanks for the book recommendation, but i am not feeling very open minded to it

at the moment. I am mindful of how crap i feel! :-) I have one by john cabot

zinn somewhere, but not read it. sometimes i am easily annoyed by such things.

i was trying to listen to an hypnosis mp3 once, (dieting or sleep or stress or

something like that) and it said 'remember a time you felt really relaxed' and

that really annoys me, really annoys me. i can imagine feeling like that, a

perfect day, but remembering last time, especially when i'm in a stressed

state?? no no no. i threw it across the room. i can get into a good state

but not remember one. much easier to imagine a good state than remember one.

argh.

> No, I don't take DHEA. I understood that it could lower cortisol even

> more. Why do you say you should take ~DHEA with HC?My problem is that my

because cortisol is catabolic and dhea is anabolic; dhea will offset the bad

effects of the hc.

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/adrenals5.php

" There are two fundamental contraindications to cortisol supplementation: when

it is not necessary or when it could cause harm. First: Cortisol treatment is

not needed when lab tests are normal. In that case, cortisol treatment will

generally not help and may, on the contrary, cause harm. Second, cortisol

treatment – even appropriate replacement doses of cortisol, may cause harm if

the patient does not have sufficient levels of anabolic hormones such as ***DHEA

and sex hormones to counter cortisol catabolic effects. The catabolic effects of

cortisol can cause excessive breakdown of the tissues of the body, which result

in osteoporosis (loss of bone tissue), skin atrophy (thinning), ecchymosis,

petechia (bruising) and immunosuppression (decrease in immune defences). ****So

the recommendation is to treat only when necessary and to do it safely with the

smallest effective physiologic doses and with simultaneous correction of any

deficit in anabolic hormones. "

i took HC without dhea as i listened to that line about lowering cortisol

further; i don't buy that any more - i feel better by taking dhea now.

> body is not using cortisol effectively - either because of worn down

> receptors or because of toxins. When I rest enough then my body can use

> the cortisol ok and yes, I definitely feel less anxious.

i read that turmeric can help sensitise cortisol receptors, though i also read

it can lower cortisol in different ways.

chris

[Guest guest]

Hi I got my pred from Value - but that won't be possible any more as they require prescriptions. The brand name was Omnacortil. Dr P hadn't heard of it so I got it without recommendation. I have to dose twice a day so for me it's really the worst of both worlds.All best, Alison

[Guest guest]

i was thinking 5 to 5.30am on the basis that might give you another hour and a

half sleep time and that would give you a full cycle for dreaming ...i think it

can be very difficult to have to wake (unnaturally) within a 90 minute cycle. i

do hope you can fix this because it must be more than awful to deal with on an

unrelenting basis.

trish

>

> Hi Trish

>

> about 6, maybe 7....

>

> not sure what time to take it. melatonin and HGH will lower Cortisol

further...

>

> chris

>

[Guest guest]

Hi i take my last dose of HC as my head hits the pillow usually between

10pm-1am then i take my HC as soon as i awake between 7-9am.

I have always hated the mornings never been a morning person my whole life but

as soon as i added in my bed time dose of T3 along with my HC im good in the

mornings with little problem getting out of bed.

I asked Val a question when i first started taking HC is it better to be

slightly high on dosing or slightly lower and she said deffo always a bit higher

if anything - If you are having to stress dose for a traffic jam id say you

could need more HC.

I am not sure what thyroid meds you are on if any, but if you are on T3 only

then maybe try a big bed time dose of 25, maybe start with 12 then increase. Or

if you are on T4/T3 you could try adding a bit in the night. Both of them should

help in the mornings.

Steve

[Guest guest]

There's only one way to go and that is " suck it and

see " as they say. I think you might be pleasantly surprised. I do have a

copy of 's Book 'Recovering with T3' in our TPA library if you would like

to borrow it. Send me stamps to the value of £2.90 and I will send you the

book. Remember to let me have your address…..then you will become

familiar with 's method!

Sheila

Squirrel Cottage

Ickornshaw

Cowling

Nr Keighley

BD22 0DH

Luv - Sheila

what i'm wondering is is whether to set my alarm at 4am to take my morning

dose.

I am not that familiar with 's methods but from what i've read on STTM, http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/t3-circadian-protocol-for-adrenals/

" 1.Most of the day's cortisol is made in the last four hours of sleep,

i.e. the four hours before you normally wake up. So, for example, if one

normally wakes up around 8 am, most cortisol is made from 4 -8 am. i.e. that

four hour window is when your adrenals work the hardest. "

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sheila

I will think about it - I don't think 's method would work for me as i'm on

HC and have insulin problems - too contra indications i think

I will set my alarm and see what happens though. I would be happy to get rid

of this symptom. Had it for years i think. i guess it makes sense i would do

if i have a sluggish pituitary. i remember some mornings before HC waking up

really cold and driving at 5am in the morning, just to get out the house....kind

of a flight or fight feeling (though i was safe to drive, just felt horrible)

chris

>

> There's only one way to go and that is " suck it and see " as they say.

> I think you might be pleasantly surprised. I do have a copy of 's Book

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

Can I just ask – is it Alison – who prescribed

your HC and who advised that it should be taken 6 times a day on demand. I am

on HC but I didn’t take it like this – have you been diagnosed with

’s or something ?

If you are feeling under the weather – I found

until I balanced out – that when I felt rough – it was because I

did not have enough cortisol to support the thyroid med dosage- I had no

intention of raising my HC so I took the thyroid med down and it worked. If I

go up too high then I suffer symptoms of sweating etc. which is due to low

cortisol.

Hope this helps

Mandy

[Guest guest]

Hi Mandy, yes I see Dr P. Also I get advise from the adrenal group - as you've probably gathered from my previous posts.I don't take HC on demand - I have a regular dosing schedule with the same amounts each day at the same times. Dr P said I have what is effectively an early form of s but this hasn't been recognised by the NHS, needless to say. I have to dose every 3 hours. I have to say, I am very, very ill - in bed now for 20 hours a day since I crashed my adrenals in Dec - so it is more than just feeling rough. I'm actually unable to do anything. I can walk to the corner of the road on some days - but even seeing friends is difficult. So no fun at all. Thanks for your help - any ideas on how to get going much appreciated - but I suspect that I just have to keep resting. Best wishes AlisonP.S. NHS has diagnosed me with m.e. but every symptom I have is adrenal/cortisol related 

[Guest guest]

Hi Alison,

What dose are you on, have you done Dr hertoghes questionnaire to see what else

might be a problem?

Not to labour the point too much but I felt bad on hc alone without dhea.

Pregnenolone helped too.

Chris

> it is more than just feeling rough. I'm actually unable to do anything.

> I can walk to the corner of the road on some days - but even seeing

> friends is difficult. So no fun at all. Thanks for your help - any ideas

> on how to get going much appreciated - but I suspect that I just have to

> keep resting. Best wishes AlisonP.S. NHS has diagnosed me with m.e. but

> every symptom I have is adrenal/cortisol related 

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Steve i'll bear your thoughts in mind

hope you're doing ok

chris

>

> Hi i take my last dose of HC as my head hits the pillow usually between

10pm-1am then i take my HC as soon as i awake between 7-9am.

>

[Guest guest]

Well,

I set my alarm for 4.45am, and took 20mg hc with half a peanut butter sandwich.

I got up about 6am, i felt woken up by the HC.

I am wary of saying this, but i think it helped - no morning anxiety attack.

though, i am working from home today, so it was not a true test as i did not

have to get up and get going (tho i did pop out to buy a latte)

so far i do feel better. i just hope it continues, but am very wary..

chris

> I really hope you sort it out. Do say how you get on.Best wishes, Alison

>

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello. is lack of cortisol why one wakes up at 4 am /4.30am in the morning?

I suffer from this odd sleep cycle now, not everyday but often enough to make me feel under-slept

is this why I have put on a little more weight in spite of being onT3?

I just bought a bottle of DHEA but as I don't take HC, whoch I presume is a form of cortisol, it seesm that DHEA is not making the situation better.

Is that correct>

Regards

[Guest guest]

Great news, Chris. Fingers crossed for you.I'll reply to your previous post tomorrow - running out of steam today already (I actually made it walking to the end of the road:)Best, Alison>> Well,> > I set my alarm for 4.45am, and took 20mg hc with half a peanut butter sandwich. I got up about 6am, i felt woken up by the HC.>

[Guest guest]

i think waking at 4/4.30 is definitely adrenal related and possibly linked to

blood sugar regulation. i have found it helpful to take a good dose of vitamin

c before going to bed.

have you been tested re the dhea (i.e. are you low)?

trish

>

> Hello. is lack of cortisol why one wakes up at 4 am /4.30am in the morning?

> I suffer from this odd sleep cycle now, not everyday but often enough to make

me feel under-slept

> is�this�why I��have put on a little more weight in spite of� being

onT3?

> I just bought a bottle of DHEA but as I don't take HC, whoch I presume is a

form of cortisol, it seesm that DHEA is not making the situation better.

> Is that correct>

> Regards

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Alison, we'll see what happens tomorrow though i don't want to jinx it.

whatever will i do in the morning if i don't have my usual panic attack for

breakfast, and 10 cigarettes after to calm it all down? :-| i can only think

all that adrenaline's been so bad for my healht, i have had this problem for

years.

we shall see; almost scared to try it again in case it doesn't work. that makes

no sense, i know. i dare not think it could be this simple to fix.

i don't remember if i posted this to you or not (sorry) but have you gone

through here to see if you have any symptoms of deficiencies?

http://www.hertoghe.eu/patients/pdf/All%20vitamins%20deficiency%20tests.pdf

for me, prengnelone, copper, dhea, vitamin A , vit D3 and iron all helped me to

tolerate thyroid hormone better and start to recover. i started dhea and

pregnenolone and felt the effect the next day i think. i also had high zinc

levels (and manganese)

oh one more thing- i was told to take dhea with hc. if i hadn't felt better for

doing so, i wouldn't take it. i felt worse for not having it. so what i'm

trying to say is sometimes we need to do what works for us, not what is

recommended - sometimes we need to try things out. it may not have worked for

someone on the adrenal group, but for someone else, it might.

best wishes

chris

>

> Great news, Chris. Fingers crossed for you.I'll reply to your previous

> post tomorrow - running out of steam today already (I actually made it

[Guest guest]

,

it could be one of a few things, including melatonin.

this might give you a few clues in which to start to investigate further:

http://www.hertoghe.eu/patients/pdf/All%20hormones%20deficiencies%20tests.pdf

best regards

chris

>

> Hello. is lack of cortisol why one wakes up at 4 am /4.30am in the morning?

> I suffer from this odd sleep cycle now, not everyday but often enough to make

me feel under-slept