Introduction

September 19, 2003

Hi Pam, I'm from PA, what part are you from?

> Sandy,

> Thanks to all of you for the support. Where are the doctors

located that you mentioned who are experts in autism? I'd love to

talk to someone like that. I live in Pennsylvania.

>

> Thanks again,

> Pam

September 24, 2003

Have you read the actual law in your state on religious exemption? I am in

KY and I called the state dept. for public health and had the director of

the immunization branch and explain what I needed to do to take the

religious exemption. And it really was not hard to accomplish.

Introduction

> My name is . I am the mother of three. I am studying to get my

> licence to teach. My first two children are vaccinated. I have

> choosen not to vaccinate my baby Ariel she is almost 8 months. Her

> birth was made into a horrible ordeal by the hospital and they did

> many things to her without my concent, so I can't guarantee she was

> not given the first shot even though I refused it(saying I would

> take her to my family doctor to be vaccinated so all her records

> would be there) I have no desire to see the medical records. I got

> my records after my last child and could only cry at the lies and

> injustices.

> We live in Indiana and I have read the laws. I can claim religious

> exemption. My only aurgument there is the simple belief that I

> cannot harm my child that would be against every belief I have, but

> I'm not sure that would be acceptable. There is medical exemption by

> a phsician, but I have no way to get that. I have a tolerable family

> doctor who has seen Ariel once and declared her healthy. He will

> delay vaccinations for a time while she's breastfeeding, but I'm not

> sure he would be ok with not vaccinating. My baby has been so

> extremely healthy she hasn't been back to the doctor since that 2

> week visit. Also in my ares is a tolerable independant nurse

> practitioner, but she vaccinates. And in the next town there is a

> natropathic doctor who is against vaccinations, but Indiana does not

> licence natropaths.

> In my county we have an intolerable child protective services. They

> have harassed me because my ex has falsly accused us in the hopes of

> taking my kids. They are not involved right now and did not ask

> anything about the baby but I fear that if they find out my baby is

> not vaccinated they will force it on us.

> I know my rights, but that doesn't prevent them from being violated.

> I would like to know what others have done to get exemptions in

> states without philisophical exemption.

>

September 25, 2003

The law says that you must give a letter of religious exemption to

each agency requiring the vaccinations but it does not give

instructions as to what needs to said. I have read that you don't

have to be a member of a church to claim exemption which is good

because there are no churches with specific docterine about

vaccinations here. I could call the health department, but I'm

afraid they would harass me. I don't have anything that would

require legal exemption right now. I guess what I need to know right

now is how to avoid harassment about my baby not getting

vaccinations. I get it from family and friends and if she ever had

to go to the doctor I would get it really bad. I don't understand

why everybody is trying to talk me out of a decision I am very

comfortable with and have many facts to back up.

> Have you read the actual law in your state on religious

exemption? I am in

> KY and I called the state dept. for public health and had the

director of

> the immunization branch and explain what I needed to do to take the

> religious exemption. And it really was not hard to accomplish.

>

> Introduction

>

> > My name is . I am the mother of three. I am studying to get

my

> > licence to teach. My first two children are vaccinated. I have

> > choosen not to vaccinate my baby Ariel she is almost 8 months.

Her

> > birth was made into a horrible ordeal by the hospital and they

did

> > many things to her without my concent, so I can't guarantee she

was

> > not given the first shot even though I refused it(saying I would

> > take her to my family doctor to be vaccinated so all her records

> > would be there) I have no desire to see the medical records. I

got

> > my records after my last child and could only cry at the lies and

> > injustices.

> > We live in Indiana and I have read the laws. I can claim

religious

> > exemption. My only aurgument there is the simple belief that I

> > cannot harm my child that would be against every belief I have,

but

> > I'm not sure that would be acceptable. There is medical

exemption by

> > a phsician, but I have no way to get that. I have a tolerable

family

> > doctor who has seen Ariel once and declared her healthy. He will

> > delay vaccinations for a time while she's breastfeeding, but I'm

not

> > sure he would be ok with not vaccinating. My baby has been so

> > extremely healthy she hasn't been back to the doctor since that 2

> > week visit. Also in my ares is a tolerable independant nurse

> > practitioner, but she vaccinates. And in the next town there is a

> > natropathic doctor who is against vaccinations, but Indiana does

not

> > licence natropaths.

> > In my county we have an intolerable child protective services.

They

> > have harassed me because my ex has falsly accused us in the

hopes of

> > taking my kids. They are not involved right now and did not ask

> > anything about the baby but I fear that if they find out my baby

is

> > not vaccinated they will force it on us.

> > I know my rights, but that doesn't prevent them from being

violated.

> > I would like to know what others have done to get exemptions in

> > states without philisophical exemption.

> >

September 25, 2003

I sent the info but it appears isn;'t working well

will send to you privately

At 06:27 PM 09/25/2003 -0000, you wrote:

>The law says that you must give a letter of religious exemption to

>each agency requiring the vaccinations but it does not give

>instructions as to what needs to said. I have read that you don't

>have to be a member of a church to claim exemption which is good

>because there are no churches with specific docterine about

>vaccinations here. I could call the health department, but I'm

>afraid they would harass me. I don't have anything that would

>require legal exemption right now. I guess what I need to know right

>now is how to avoid harassment about my baby not getting

>vaccinations. I get it from family and friends and if she ever had

>to go to the doctor I would get it really bad. I don't understand

>why everybody is trying to talk me out of a decision I am very

>comfortable with and have many facts to back up.

>

>> Have you read the actual law in your state on religious

>exemption? I am in

>> KY and I called the state dept. for public health and had the

>director of

>> the immunization branch and explain what I needed to do to take the

>> religious exemption. And it really was not hard to accomplish.

>>

>> Introduction

>>

>> > My name is . I am the mother of three. I am studying to get

>my

>> > licence to teach. My first two children are vaccinated. I have

>> > choosen not to vaccinate my baby Ariel she is almost 8 months.

>Her

>> > birth was made into a horrible ordeal by the hospital and they

>did

>> > many things to her without my concent, so I can't guarantee she

>was

>> > not given the first shot even though I refused it(saying I would

>> > take her to my family doctor to be vaccinated so all her records

>> > would be there) I have no desire to see the medical records. I

>got

>> > my records after my last child and could only cry at the lies and

>> > injustices.

>> > We live in Indiana and I have read the laws. I can claim

>religious

>> > exemption. My only aurgument there is the simple belief that I

>> > cannot harm my child that would be against every belief I have,

>but

>> > I'm not sure that would be acceptable. There is medical

>exemption by

>> > a phsician, but I have no way to get that. I have a tolerable

>family

>> > doctor who has seen Ariel once and declared her healthy. He will

>> > delay vaccinations for a time while she's breastfeeding, but I'm

>not

>> > sure he would be ok with not vaccinating. My baby has been so

>> > extremely healthy she hasn't been back to the doctor since that 2

>> > week visit. Also in my ares is a tolerable independant nurse

>> > practitioner, but she vaccinates. And in the next town there is a

>> > natropathic doctor who is against vaccinations, but Indiana does

>not

>> > licence natropaths.

>> > In my county we have an intolerable child protective services.

>They

>> > have harassed me because my ex has falsly accused us in the

>hopes of

>> > taking my kids. They are not involved right now and did not ask

>> > anything about the baby but I fear that if they find out my baby

>is

>> > not vaccinated they will force it on us.

>> > I know my rights, but that doesn't prevent them from being

>violated.

>> > I would like to know what others have done to get exemptions in

>> > states without philisophical exemption.

>> >

September 25, 2003

I called around to find a ped who would see my son with a religious

exemption. Many pediatric offices said flat out, no, they would not take my

son as a patient. However, I did finally find one who agreed to see my son,

he said basically we won't hassle you and we don't want you hassling us ( I

assume that means their patients). So call around and find a ped who is

open to non-vaxers, and your local homeschool group may be able to suggest

some peds for you to try since some homeschoolers are also non-vaxers.

Introduction

> >

> > > My name is . I am the mother of three. I am studying to get

> my

> > > licence to teach. My first two children are vaccinated. I have

> > > choosen not to vaccinate my baby Ariel she is almost 8 months.

> Her

> > > birth was made into a horrible ordeal by the hospital and they

> did

> > > many things to her without my concent, so I can't guarantee she

> was

> > > not given the first shot even though I refused it(saying I would

> > > take her to my family doctor to be vaccinated so all her records

> > > would be there) I have no desire to see the medical records. I

> got

> > > my records after my last child and could only cry at the lies and

> > > injustices.

> > > We live in Indiana and I have read the laws. I can claim

> religious

> > > exemption. My only aurgument there is the simple belief that I

> > > cannot harm my child that would be against every belief I have,

> but

> > > I'm not sure that would be acceptable. There is medical

> exemption by

> > > a phsician, but I have no way to get that. I have a tolerable

> family

> > > doctor who has seen Ariel once and declared her healthy. He will

> > > delay vaccinations for a time while she's breastfeeding, but I'm

> not

> > > sure he would be ok with not vaccinating. My baby has been so

> > > extremely healthy she hasn't been back to the doctor since that 2

> > > week visit. Also in my ares is a tolerable independant nurse

> > > practitioner, but she vaccinates. And in the next town there is a

> > > natropathic doctor who is against vaccinations, but Indiana does

> not

> > > licence natropaths.

> > > In my county we have an intolerable child protective services.

> They

> > > have harassed me because my ex has falsly accused us in the

> hopes of

> > > taking my kids. They are not involved right now and did not ask

> > > anything about the baby but I fear that if they find out my baby

> is

> > > not vaccinated they will force it on us.

> > > I know my rights, but that doesn't prevent them from being

> violated.

> > > I would like to know what others have done to get exemptions in

> > > states without philisophical exemption.

> > >

December 9, 2003

Hi Magda,

I also live in Atlanta (Woodstock/Acworth area). It hasn't been a problem

getting around the school system, but finding a pediatrician to treat a non

vaxed child in the metro area has been a challenge.

If you are near my area or Norcross, I can put you in contact with the only

two I've been able to find. They do still push the issue, but they haven't

dropped my kids as patients.

Kathy

_____

From: m2veleck [mailto:m2veleck@...]

Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 11:46 AM

Vaccinations

Subject: Introduction

Hello everyone,

My name is Magda and I live in Atlanta, GA with my husband Vladi and

our GSD Kayla. I recently became interested in providing natural care

to my dog and have since switched her to raw feeding and no vaccs.

She's doing splendidly.

Since my husband and I are trying to have children soon, it got me

thinking about vaccinations for children (or rather how to avoid

them). I tried talking to my mom but she thinks vaccines protect

children against deathly diseases and I didn't have any info to

refute her claims.

I have already gotten some good info about exemptions in GA - seems

they will be no problem. Now I have some time to arm myself with good

info so I can look like an informed individual to the doctor I'll be

working with.

Any good websites about dangers of vaccines? I'm especially

interested in info about outbreaks and what happened to

vaccinated/nonvaccinated people. Also, are any of the diseases that

kids are vaccinated against actually deathly?

Thanks for any info you can give me.

Magda

December 9, 2003

I'm bias....=) go to my site http://home.earthlink.et/~medlins/

Also,

www.vaccinetruth.org

www.909shot.com

a lot of people on the list have package inserts on their sites.

http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html has quite a bit

" Happy reading " !

Kimberley

--------signature-------------

Does the supposed intent to irradicate from the human population animal born

viral and or bacterial diseases justify the blatant sacrifices of human

life? We (pro-lifers) may be particular with what cosmetic products we

avoid which contain aborted fetal tissue. After being informed of the

ongoing use of these blatant human sacrifices, just exactly how can any

acclaimed christian justify their continued participation by vaccinations

(containing aborted fetal tissue) without contradicting their Bible based

belief in the sanctity of human life?

Need more convincing that the abortion industry plays a large role in

vaccine manufacturing? Let the manufacturer(s) and government tell you in

their own words:

http://home.earthlink.net/~medlins/

This website is updated daily

> Hello everyone,

> My name is Magda and I live in Atlanta, GA with my husband Vladi and

> our GSD Kayla. I recently became interested in providing natural care

> to my dog and have since switched her to raw feeding and no vaccs.

> She's doing splendidly.

> Since my husband and I are trying to have children soon, it got me

> thinking about vaccinations for children (or rather how to avoid

> them). I tried talking to my mom but she thinks vaccines protect

> children against deathly diseases and I didn't have any info to

> refute her claims.

> I have already gotten some good info about exemptions in GA - seems

> they will be no problem. Now I have some time to arm myself with good

> info so I can look like an informed individual to the doctor I'll be

> working with.

> Any good websites about dangers of vaccines? I'm especially

> interested in info about outbreaks and what happened to

> vaccinated/nonvaccinated people. Also, are any of the diseases that

> kids are vaccinated against actually deathly?

> Thanks for any info you can give me.

> Magda

>

December 11, 2003

Hi, my name is Fern (38) mommy to Zoë (18 months) and dh Eyal. When Zoë was

born, I had not thought to investigate about vaccines, and went ahead and

gave her all the recommended shots. At her 6 month check up - I complained

to the doctor about her reaction to Dtap and Prevnar (swelling at the site

for a week after injection). She was not given the Prevnar shot. Then I

started to read about Thimeresol and the link to autism in Mothering

magazine and as our MMR shot date approached, I started to do research. At

our 12 month check-up, I decided not to let the doctor give my daughter

Varicella, MMR, Dtap or Prevnar (read about aluminum preservative - which is

a neurotoxin). To my regret, I let her get Comvax (Hib and Hep for the

Hib part of the vaccine - can they be given separately?- she is now 19

months and I am not going to be giving her anymore vaccinations.

Fortunately, she seems to be developing well at this point. She is still

breastfeeding, which will probably give her immunity to Mumps and Rubella,

since I had both as a child.

I joined this list to learn more about vaccine issues and also because my

pregnant sister (12 weeks) was advised to get a flu shot by her doctor and I

advised her not to. However, I needed information to support why I felt she

should not get one. Fortunately, they have run out of vaccines, so she will

not be getting one, so the issue is now a non-issue.

I look forward to learning lots from being a part of this group

December 12, 2003

5 micrograms if you weigh 110 lbs

All the best,

" Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if any should

be

given to their children "

<A HREF= " http://www.vaccinetruth.org/ " >Vaccine Information</A>

December 12, 2003

Tell your sister the flu vax has 25 MICROGRAMS OF MERCURY and according to

CDC's advised safe level, that's FIVE TIMES more than she should have AND is

extremely dangerous to the baby...could cause neurological damage...and a

potential miscarriage.

Also tell her to stay away from tuna fish....a 6 oz can has up to 17

micrograms.

Her doctor apparently, doesn't care about the baby or else he would be

trying to get her to take flu vax.

Enjoy your educational experience in the group! =)

Kimberley

>I joined this list to learn more about vaccine issues and also because my

pregnant sister (12 weeks) was advised to get a flu shot by her doctor and I

advised her not to. However, I needed information to support why I felt she

should not get one. Fortunately, they have run out of vaccines, so she will

not be getting one, so the issue is now a non-issue.

I look forward to learning lots from being a part of this group

December 12, 2003

5 mcg in one " sitting " of consumption

also, that little bit in your thermometer?....it's enough to pollute (sp?) a

20 acres lake

click on link to watch how mercury causes brain neuron degeneration

http://commons.ucalgary.ca/mercury/

Kimberley

> What does the CDC recommend as a " safe " level of mercury?

> Tell your sister the flu vax has 25 MICROGRAMS OF MERCURY and according

to

> CDC's advised safe level, that's FIVE TIMES more than she should have

AND is

> extremely dangerous to the baby...could cause neurological damage...and

a

> potential miscarriage.

> Also tell her to stay away from tuna fish....a 6 oz can has up to 17

> micrograms.

> Her doctor apparently, doesn't care about the baby or else he would be

> trying to get her to take flu vax.

> Enjoy your educational experience in the group! =)

> Kimberley

>

> >I joined this list to learn more about vaccine issues and also because

my

> pregnant sister (12 weeks) was advised to get a flu shot by her doctor

and I

> advised her not to. However, I needed information to support why I felt

she

> should not get one. Fortunately, they have run out of vaccines, so she

will

> not be getting one, so the issue is now a non-issue.

> I look forward to learning lots from being a part of this group

>

December 12, 2003

PLEASE PLEASE SNIP YOUR POSTS INSTEAD OF REPLYING TO THE WHOLE THING

That means to hit reply, cut most of the post you are responding to and

then write your response

This is terrible for people on digest who get long lists of redundant things

Thanks

Think before you post...... ;-)

Sheri

listowner

At 12:37 PM 12/12/2003 -0800, you wrote:

>What does the CDC recommend as a " safe " level of mercury?

> ----- Original Message -----

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

December 12, 2003

What does the CDC recommend as a " safe " level of mercury?

Re: Introduction

Tell your sister the flu vax has 25 MICROGRAMS OF MERCURY and according to

CDC's advised safe level, that's FIVE TIMES more than she should have AND is

extremely dangerous to the baby...could cause neurological damage...and a

potential miscarriage.

Also tell her to stay away from tuna fish....a 6 oz can has up to 17

micrograms.

Her doctor apparently, doesn't care about the baby or else he would be

trying to get her to take flu vax.

Enjoy your educational experience in the group! =)

Kimberley

>I joined this list to learn more about vaccine issues and also because my

pregnant sister (12 weeks) was advised to get a flu shot by her doctor and I

advised her not to. However, I needed information to support why I felt she

should not get one. Fortunately, they have run out of vaccines, so she will

not be getting one, so the issue is now a non-issue.

I look forward to learning lots from being a part of this group

December 12, 2003

" I take a lot of antiviral and antibacterial

supplements. "

Hi ,

I was wondering what antibacterial supplements you

take? I had a MAC infection and am no longer on the

antibiotics but am trying to find things that will

make it not come back. sent me to an article

which I read and found out about grapefruit seed

extract, garlic, sarsparilla root, shark liver oil and

lactoferrin. Do you have any suggestions about these

or other supplements, for MAC in particular?

Thanks,

Mike

--- Ray <boombooda@...> wrote:

> Hi everybody,

>

> Just wanted to introduce myself to this list. I am

> a gay 30-

> something living Seattle, into health and community

> and spirituality

> and art. I have a Bachelors of Science degree in

> Nutrition from

> UC in California. I have always felt that the

> most important

> factors in determining health are diet, stress,

> activity, and sleep

> patterns. I have read a ton of the dissident

> material and feel

> strongly that there is no clear evidence that HIV

> causes AIDS, and

> would like to see an unbiased reappraisal of this

> hypothesis. I am

> single, fairly sexually-active and currently not

> experiencing any

> major health concerns. Occasional acne and

> flatulence, that's about

> it. During my twenties I experienced some issues

> with indigestion,

> irritable bowels, diarrhea, fatigue and anxiety.

> Some of it was

> emotional stuff having to do with repressing my

> sexuality. But also

> a few years ago I discovered the blood type diet

> proposed by Dr.

> d'Adamo and my health has never been better.

> I am blood group

> A and I am loving d'Adamo's research and lifestyle

> suggestions. I

> highly recommend the blood type diet as a general

> foundation for

> health. I take several herbal and nutritional

> supplements

> recommended for blood group A, and someday I will

> list those here.

> Because I love sex and have multiple partners, I

> take a lot of

> antiviral and antibacterial supplements. Also, I am

> very much aware

> about how we are all susceptible to fungal

> infections from sugar

> consumption and here in the northwest especially

> because it is so

> fungal friendly. For this reason I avoid most sugar

> stuff and never

> take prescription antibiotics. I joined this group

> because I am an

> active AIDS dissident who would like to see the

> focus shifted away

> from fear campaigns and toxic drugs and back to a

> holistic,

> experiential, and sex-positive health view that

> makes use of the rich

> abundance of new and old alternative health

> knowledge available to us

> in this modern eclectic age. That's about it for

> now.

>

> Peace & Wellness,

> Ray

> Seattle, WA

>

December 12, 2003

Michel,

I keep forgetting to bring the list with me to work. I take a lot of

things that do different things. I wouldn't want to start talking

about them and then have to correct myself later on which are

antibacterial, which are antiviral, etc. Most of the stuff I take is

suggested by d'Adamo in the Blood Type Encylcopedia, which I highly

recommend. There is a good review for it on CureZone:

http://www.curezone.com/books/best/book.asp?ID=89

I will get back to you with the list though. Anytime you do

antibacterial stuff you need to also do probiotics to help replenish

your body's good bacteria. There was a study that showed some of the

probiotics in pill form did not have much viable bacteria or even had

some harmful bacteria in them. You can get a concentrated liquid

form called Bio-K that is very good, but it's expensive. Also you

can just eat lots of yogurt and kefir. Some kefir has very high

levels of quality probiotics in them. Replenishing your body's good

bacteria will actually help to destroy harmful bacterial infections,

because they are competing in your body.

I don't know much about MAC specifically. Some general immune system

herbs are fo-ti, noni, maitake, and larch bark.

catch ya later!

david ray

> > Hi everybody,

> >

> > Just wanted to introduce myself to this list. I am

> > a gay 30-

> > something living Seattle, into health and community

> > and spirituality

> > and art. I have a Bachelors of Science degree in

> > Nutrition from

> > UC in California. I have always felt that the

> > most important

> > factors in determining health are diet, stress,

> > activity, and sleep

> > patterns. I have read a ton of the dissident

> > material and feel

> > strongly that there is no clear evidence that HIV

> > causes AIDS, and

> > would like to see an unbiased reappraisal of this

> > hypothesis. I am

> > single, fairly sexually-active and currently not

> > experiencing any

> > major health concerns. Occasional acne and

> > flatulence, that's about

> > it. During my twenties I experienced some issues

> > with indigestion,

> > irritable bowels, diarrhea, fatigue and anxiety.

> > Some of it was

> > emotional stuff having to do with repressing my

> > sexuality. But also

> > a few years ago I discovered the blood type diet

> > proposed by Dr.

> > d'Adamo and my health has never been better.

> > I am blood group

> > A and I am loving d'Adamo's research and lifestyle

> > suggestions. I

> > highly recommend the blood type diet as a general

> > foundation for

> > health. I take several herbal and nutritional

> > supplements

> > recommended for blood group A, and someday I will

> > list those here.

> > Because I love sex and have multiple partners, I

> > take a lot of

> > antiviral and antibacterial supplements. Also, I am

> > very much aware

> > about how we are all susceptible to fungal

> > infections from sugar

> > consumption and here in the northwest especially

> > because it is so

> > fungal friendly. For this reason I avoid most sugar

> > stuff and never

> > take prescription antibiotics. I joined this group

> > because I am an

> > active AIDS dissident who would like to see the

> > focus shifted away

> > from fear campaigns and toxic drugs and back to a

> > holistic,

> > experiential, and sex-positive health view that

> > makes use of the rich

> > abundance of new and old alternative health

> > knowledge available to us

> > in this modern eclectic age. That's about it for

> > now.

> >

> > Peace & Wellness,

> > Ray

> > Seattle, WA

> >

December 19, 2003

Dear Fred,

Welcome to this group/forum. I read your story,great work! We visit Nakuru last November, and there working Young people very hard on the Youth Issues, as well Orphanages, Poz Woman and men.

I hope you can keep in touch with them, they are doing great work in Nakuru, and hope you can NETWORK with them. Even though the distance

is not that bad, please let me know what you think about this.

Hear from you and WELCOME!

Warmly greetings

Ingrid

Ingrid Kloet-Garrettwww.gnpplus.netwww.planetpoz.org5300 Eubank Blvd. NE 9-DAlbuquerque, New Mexico 87111Phone/Fax 505-298-2644Mobile 505-280-2218Email: Ingrid@...

"The overall aim of GNP+ is to improve the quality of life of peopleliving with HIV/AIDS. GNP+ is based on a policy platform, "The GlobalAdvocacy Agenda", which focuses on promoting global access to HIV careand treatment, ending stigma and discrimination against people livingwith HIV/AIDS, and promoting the greater and more meaningful involvementof PLWHA in the decisions that affect their lives and the lives of theircommunities."

INTRODUCTION

Dear All,I am obliged to introduce myself in this forum having joined it recently.I want to believe that i am the youngest fellow in here as i have been going through the articles being written herein.I am Fredrick Ouko aged 22 years a co-ordinator to the little known and upcoming youth organization from the urban slums of Nairobi,Kibera.I came to know about this forum through my friend Janet when she posted some of my requests sometime back and i would see the copy in my mail.I am also in a brief know how of the moderator (Chifu wa Malindi) through Janet who at sometime connected us with him and he had even agreed to offer us accommoation if were to make a visit to US as it was being thought at that time.I am overwhelmed by the fact that in this forum,there are people whom iwould have liked to talk to face to face but would not get access to them due to some normal procedures or busy schedules.I am a happy man becuase i will be putting up most of the questions i would have wanted to ask but found nobody to ask in the first place.Allow me to inform you that i am a young disabled activist who is trying all that is possible to lead a normal active life to be emulated by the rest.The group that i co-ordinate its activities is known as Kibera Community Youth Programme and it would be worth saying that this is a group that is for youth and by the youth themselves in the slums.Kibera Community Youth Programme (KCYP) is not yet fully independent due to the normal reasons you and i would know.Being an exclusive youth oriented and from the slums,we stand from a disadvantaged ground in terms of nearly everything and that is why i will be asking questions and seeking some knowledge on how to go about a number of things.This is a group that still requres lots of capacity building to be able to implement its proposed projects in-line with its mission and goals in the society.It is widely acknowledged that the youth stand at higher risk of contracting the HIV/AIDS disease and the fact that we are talking of youth who hail from the slums,preferably;one of the biggest slums around Sub-Saharan Africa! Something has to be done from this point of view,You and i know that the wearer of the shoe knows where it pitches;the youth from the slums must be empowered to reach out to other youth living in the slum.It is a matter of neglect,lack of clear policies aimed at improving lies of those living in the informal settlements.The only hope which is there is that,we are indeed waking to the realization that we cannot be ignored for any longer,it is time we are waking up to demand our rightful place in the society.I will be a smart liar if i told you that KCYP has ever received any support to do its projects,look into the long procedures involved in all those processes of getting assistance and here is a small group without anybody who can put up a "smart Proposal" as they would call it.It as a result of this that i though it would be nice to join this group so as to access some sort of knowledge while i also know that there are a few in this forum who can virtually help.This is the kind of problems i have shared with Janet and she has been of very much help to me and the group in terms of advice and new ideas that are really feasible.Maybe i need to avoid being long to save you from boredom but i will be ready to give any supplimentary information concerning our group if need be,what i believe is that;we shall gain more the fact that we are members of this forum hence open to new ideas that crouch up daily.Just as i said that this group is in dire need of capacity building,i believe trainings,small inkind donations and funding,technical support and virtually any support would be handy.You would have support a life of youth living in the slums.The fight against HIV/AIDS can only be worn if those at the highest risk of contracting the disease are actively involved in the fight against it.It involves multi-sectoral approaches to fight the scourge,and as there is high rates of youth unemployment,i sincerely thing that something has to be done and it has to be pretty fast before we are got offguard.It is not about waiting for 500,000 jobs, i am talking about finding small scale businesses,income generating ventures to be able to sustain the youth to curb their involvement in immoral behavoiurs,drug abuse and the likes that lead to risky lives.This is something we are seriously thinking about but though we fall short of advice on how to access funding for such while we have the ideas with us.I will encourage you to check us at www.kcyp.kabissa.org to get more information about us.Hoping to stay intouch and probably learn more from you people.Fredrick OukoKibera Community Youth Programmewww.kcyp.kabissa.org"Empowering youth to have a stake in their future"http://www./group/http://www./group/aids-africa (a group made up of Africans worldwide)Join Digital Africa- an information technology group that discusses IT in Africa at http://www./group/digafrica

December 19, 2003

Hello Dear Fred, Ingrid, and All,

And huge welcome here, Fred!! I have recently had the privilege of corresponding with Fred myself, who was very helpful to Neema Mgana of ARYI for the youth meeting which took place at the time of the ICASA. There are many possible areas of collaboration and partnership which can be helpful to you and the youth of Kibera/Nairobi, Fred, and I am also thinking that orgs. like Handicap International (based in Kitale and with international HQ in the UK, I believe) and Rotary International might be as well. There are some ICT-related initiatives happening which I will plug you into myself early in 2004, and youth groups like WSISYouthKenya and the Made-in-Kenya movement (subscribe to the former at wsisyouthkenya-subscribe ) which might be helpful to network with, and Onyango of SIDAREC and I have spoken about you too recently, so you might want to correspond with him at geogias@... .

I can pass along other contacts post-holidays for Wainaina Mungai and others involved with these groups, and Wainaina is the moderator of WSISYouthKenya (and just returning from the WSIS meetings in SW). has recently mentioned that SIDAREC works with TIG (and ARYI and KAIPPG are TIG partners)--TakingItGlobal--on a project focusing on poverty and youth specifically, trying to find ways in which ICTs can be helpful in that regard (he has encouraged me to join as well), so that seems a promising approach and endeavor too, and will look forward to hearing more about it and working on that together. In fact, KAIPPG works with a group of people with disabilities in W. Kenya, and I have long wanted to get them "wired" and find other ways to create opportunities for those so challenged (as I found it opened up a whole new world for me, with health challenges which have kept me homebound for a number of years), so this might be something specific we can do together!

At least one of the people Ingrid is thinking of--Stan Tuvako, a KAIPPG volunteer and now close friend to both myself and Ingrid, after their visit in November--was at the ICASA and I believe the meeting too...does that name sound familiar? Also, Stan was a founding member of a youth group called ANFORD (African Nations Foundation for Rural Development), which is very active in the Nakuru area (and Ingrid and Steve met them too), and many of them are in the arts coalition I have formed, ActALIVE, so you will hopefully subscribe to that and meet them there, as I know KCYP works in the arts (if you aren't already..please send a blank email to actalive-subscribe ). Stan is at tuvakoklub2@... and ANFORD can be reached at anford_shg@... .There are also other types of programs like Microaid (http://www.microaid.net ) which would be great as regards microcredit, and advocacy groups like the Kenya Children's Cabinet, which might already be addressing issues you have mentioned here. And sports as well, which UNICEF and some members of this forum are trying to address by meeting equipment needs.

This forum is invaluable for its contacts and the wonderful, caring people who you will meet here, and together I know we can be of great help and support to you and one another. I am so glad you are here (and to see you in aids2004youth and elsewhere!!), and warmest welcome and all the best of everything for this season and throughout the new year! Blessings and kindest regards from your friend and fan, Janet Re: INTRODUCTION

Dear Fred,

Welcome to this group/forum. I read your story,great work! We visit Nakuru last November, and there working Young people very hard on the Youth Issues, as well Orphanages, Poz Woman and men.

I hope you can keep in touch with them, they are doing great work in Nakuru, and hope you can NETWORK with them. Even though the distance

is not that bad, please let me know what you think about this.

Hear from you and WELCOME!

Warmly greetings

Ingrid

Ingrid Kloet-Garrettwww.gnpplus.netwww.planetpoz.org5300 Eubank Blvd. NE 9-DAlbuquerque, New Mexico 87111Phone/Fax 505-298-2644Mobile 505-280-2218Email: Ingrid@...

"The overall aim of GNP+ is to improve the quality of life of peopleliving with HIV/AIDS. GNP+ is based on a policy platform, "The GlobalAdvocacy Agenda", which focuses on promoting global access to HIV careand treatment, ending stigma and discrimination against people livingwith HIV/AIDS, and promoting the greater and more meaningful involvementof PLWHA in the decisions that affect their lives and the lives of theircommunities."

INTRODUCTION

Dear All,I am obliged to introduce myself in this forum having joined it recently.I want to believe that i am the youngest fellow in here as i have been going through the articles being written herein.I am Fredrick Ouko aged 22 years a co-ordinator to the little known and upcoming youth organization from the urban slums of Nairobi,Kibera.I came to know about this forum through my friend Janet when she posted some of my requests sometime back and i would see the copy in my mail. I am also in a brief know how of the moderator (Chifu wa Malindi) through Janet who at sometime connected us with him and he had even agreed to offer us accommoation if were to make a visit to US as it was being thought at that time.

I am overwhelmed by the fact that in this forum, there are people whom iwould have liked to talk to face to face but would not get access to them due to some normal procedures or busy schedules.I am a happy man becuase i will be putting up most of the questions i would have wanted to ask but found nobody to ask in the first place. Allow me to inform you that i am a young disabled activist who is trying all that is possible to lead a normal active life to be emulated by the rest.The group that i co-ordinate its activities is known as Kibera Community Youth Programme and it would be worth saying that this is a group that is for youth and by the youth themselves in the slums.

Kibera Community Youth Programme (KCYP) is not yet fully independent due to the normal reasons you and i would know.Being an exclusive youth oriented and from the slums,we stand from a disadvantaged ground in terms of nearly everything and that is why i will be asking questions and seeking some knowledge on how to go about a number of things.This is a group that still requres lots of capacity building to be able to implement its proposed projects in-line with its mission and goals in the society.It is widely acknowledged that the youth stand at higher risk of contracting the HIV/AIDS disease and the fact that we are talking of youth who hail from the slums,preferably;one of the biggest slums around Sub-Saharan Africa! Something has to be done from this point of view,You and i know that the wearer of the shoe knows where it pitches;the youth from the slums must be empowered to reach out to other youth living in the slum.

It is a matter of neglect,lack of clear policies aimed at improving lies of those living in the informal settlements.The only hope which is there is that,we are indeed waking to the realization that we cannot be ignored for any longer,it is time we are waking up to demand our rightful place in the society.I will be a smart liar if i told you that KCYP has ever received any support to do its projects,look into the long procedures involved in all those processes of getting assistance and here is a small group without anybody who can put up a "smart Proposal" as they would call it.It as a result of this that i though it would be nice to join this group so as to access some sort of knowledge while i also know that there are a few in this forum who can virtually help.

This is the kind of problems i have shared with Janet and she has been of very much help to me and the group in terms of advice and new ideas that are really feasible.Maybe i need to avoid being long to save you from boredom but i will be ready to give any supplimentary information concerning our group if need be,what i believe is that;we shall gain more the fact that we are members of this forum hence open to new ideas that crouch up daily.Just as i said that this group is in dire need of capacity building,i believe trainings,small inkind donations and funding,technical support and virtually any support would be handy.You would have support a life of youth living in the slums.

The fight against HIV/AIDS can only be worn if those at the highest risk of contracting the disease are actively involved in the fight against it.It involves multi-sectoral approaches to fight the scourge,and as there is high rates of youth unemployment,i sincerely thing that something has to be done and it has to be pretty fast before we are got offguard.It is not about waiting for 500,000 jobs, i am talking about finding small scale businesses,income generating ventures to be able to sustain the youth to curb their involvement in immoral behavoiurs,drug abuse and the likes that lead to risky lives.This is something we are seriously thinking about but though we fall short of advice on how to access funding for such while we have the ideas with us.

I will encourage you to check us at www.kcyp.kabissa.org to get more information about us.Hoping to stay intouch and probably learn more from you people.Fredrick OukoKibera Community Youth Programmewww.kcyp.kabissa.org"Empowering youth to have a stake in their future"http://www./group/http://www./group/aids-africa (a group made up of Africans worldwide)Join Digital Africa- an information technology group that discusses IT in Africa at http://www./group/digafrica

December 21, 2003

Hello Libby!

I am new to the group too. :-)

-Sonata

January 12, 2004

Do you recommend one chewable multivitamin per day or two? Also, how

often do you recommend the patient to take the subligual B12? Daily?

Weekly? Still trying to get a feel for what everyone else is doing.

Thanks,

Hunter Copeland, RD LD

> Hello, my name is Randee Reidy, and I am in private practice in the

> Sacramento, California area. I see patients pre- and post- operatively

> from two groups of surgeons here within the Sutter Medical system, Sutter

> General in Sacramento, and Sutter Roseville. I have been seeing these

> patients for about four years now. I have a 10 page handout that I go

> over with patients during their preop visits, and from what I can see, I

> am doing what everyone else is. I also have had questions about the

> calcium, the iron, and the vitamins. What we recommend is a chewable

> multivitamin plus minerals (either children's or adult), calcium citrate

> taken separately, and a ferrous gluconate for premenopausal women. Do any

> of you recommend a prenatal vitamin? Also, we do sublingual B12.

>

> I attended the Weight Management Certification program in Chicago last

> April, and they did a 3 hour presentation there about bariatric surgery,

> however, I felt they need to expand it, it was pretty basic. Probably

> good for people who do not see surgery patients, but not enough info for

> those who do.

>

> I also am a member of the WMPG.

>

> I am happy to be a part of this group, and look forward to learning from

> all of you, and hopefully contributing something that would help.

>

> Randee L. Reidy, MA, RD

> Hopkins House

> Sacramento, CA

>

> rreidy@...

>

January 13, 2004

Hunter:

I recommend two children's chewables or one adult, daily sublingual B12 if taking 500 mcg, every other day if taking 1000.

Re: Introduction

Do you recommend one chewable multivitamin per day or two? Also, howoften do you recommend the patient to take the subligual B12? Daily?Weekly? Still trying to get a feel for what everyone else is doing.Thanks,Hunter Copeland, RD LD> Hello, my name is Randee Reidy, and I am in private practice in the> Sacramento, California area. I see patients pre- and post- operatively> from two groups of surgeons here within the Sutter Medical system, Sutter> General in Sacramento, and Sutter Roseville. I have been seeing these> patients for about four years now. I have a 10 page handout that I go> over with patients during their preop visits, and from what I can see, I> am doing what everyone else is. I also have had questions about the> calcium, the iron, and the vitamins. What we recommend is a chewable> multivitamin plus minerals (either children's or adult), calcium citrate> taken separately, and a ferrous gluconate for premenopausal women. Do any> of you recommend a prenatal vitamin? Also, we do sublingual B12.>> I attended the Weight Management Certification program in Chicago last> April, and they did a 3 hour presentation there about bariatric surgery,> however, I felt they need to expand it, it was pretty basic. Probably> good for people who do not see surgery patients, but not enough info for> those who do.>> I also am a member of the WMPG.>> I am happy to be a part of this group, and look forward to learning from> all of you, and hopefully contributing something that would help.>> Randee L. Reidy, MA, RD> Hopkins House> Sacramento, CA>> rreidy@...>>

January 24, 2004

Welcome !

Kimberley

ChristianityandVaccinations/

--------signature-------------

Are you aware that aborted fetal tissue is used in the development and

manufacture of vaccines? Read more about this and other startling facts about

vaccines at http://www.cogforlife.org and http://www.vaccinetruth.org

Here's a list of vaccine ingredients (chick embryo, formaldehyde, aluminum

hydroxide, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, gelatin-boiled pig skin, monkey kidney

tissue, boiled cow skin, coagulated horse blood...etc) from Centers for Disease

Control http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/Appendices/A/Excipient.pdf

Ask the US government what your pediatrician can't answer nipinfo@...

I Corinthians 3:16 " Do you not know that you yourselves are God's temple and

that God's Spirit lives in you?...for God's temple is sacred, and you are that

temple. "

Introduction

Hello all,

I am new to this group. My name is I am a 31 yo sCHristian stay at

home, homeschooling, tandem nursing, AP, WAHM, somewhat crunchy mama to 5

little blessings and hopefully more.

I have had ALL my children immunized regretably. I hadx NOOOO idea about all

this until just recently and now I am suffering guilt because of what I have

done. Ladies we need to get this information out there. There are people

like me that have NOOO idea that immunizations are bad.

I have a son that they diagnosed with ADHD and I am not sure that that is

what he has rather I think he may have autism we have not gone thru all the

tests.

When he was 2 months old we had him immunized and he has a SEVERE reaction

(SCREATCHING type crying for HOURS) I called the dr they told me this was

normal.

After his 15 mo shots he has high fevers for 6 weeks. 104-106. REALLY honest

I didn't even put the two and two together until recently.

Well I took my daughter in for her 6 mo old shots 6 months ago and told the

dr I don't feel right about immunizing and he gave me the longest speel

about why I should and made me feel like less of a mother for not wanting to

vaccinate. Because I had no info yet on vaccinations I went along with his

request.

Now she is due for her vaccines again and I am so afraid to tell him that I

don't want to do this..

I want to change all my chidlrens care over to a naturepath (sp?) But not

sure if my insurance will cover it because I have regence blue shield and I

also have suppliment dshs. So they probably won't cover it. (

Well I think I gave you enough info.

Please pummel me with information so I am well informed the next time I take

my child to the dr.

Thanks all for letting me share.

Blessings,

Natural Mama and Baby Products!

Cloth diapers, slings, breast pumps and

more!! Free Shipping over $50

360-595-0162

www.preciousbeginningsdiapersnthings.com

January 24, 2004

Welcome ! Lots of info here!!! I wish I could go to the doctor with

you I'd give him a piece of my mind about vaccinating!

All the best,

" Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if any should

be

given to their children "

Vaccine Information

January 25, 2004

>I didn't even put the two and two together until recently.

>Well I took my daughter in for her 6 mo old shots 6 months ago and told the

>dr I don't feel right about immunizing and he gave me the longest speel

>about why I should and made me feel like less of a mother for not wanting to

>vaccinate. Because I had no info yet on vaccinations I went along with his

>request.

I'm so sorry, . I know its hard, but you and other moms and dads

have got to get STRONG and say NO until you know more. You are the parent.

You are the one's left with the injured children not the doctor

And that is WHY many have stopped going to peds - the appointments are

basically for vaccines PERIOD. (I know, I was a PEDS nurse)

>Now she is due for her vaccines again and I am so afraid to tell him that I

>don't want to do this..

Don't go in. How awful to be afraid of your doctor? That tells me a lot

aobut him. If you can't stand up, don't go.

>I want to change all my chidlrens care over to a naturepath (sp?) But not

>sure if my insurance will cover it because I have regence blue shield and I

>also have suppliment dshs. So they probably won't cover it. (

Well, you need to find out

AND THINK long and hard.

For example, because your health insurance doesn't cover car repairs, do

you get car repairs anyway because you need them? You find the money. You

all have got to get out of this insurance mindset - I know it is hard and I

know money is very tight for many of you. But you are NOT GETTING anything

that contributes to health. You only get things that make your children

and selves sicker or die.

Start with my webpages

and if you can afford it my next vaccine dangers class.

And there are lots of good people in Washington

Check the website I maintain and see who might be near you and call them

http://www.homeopathy-cures.com/

click on find a homeopath

Good luck and stay away from peds - they are killers anymore

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

January 25, 2004

,

You're okay.....but I think you'll start feeling better once you get this grasp:

You are your child's ultimate authority about what is done to and with them.

Build up some " will power " in knowing that your child is not the property of

your pediatrician or even the government. Remember that your child depends on

you and puts a lot of trust in you 24/7 for their well-being in all aspects.

Doctors are not " god " when it comes to truly knowing what is best for each

individual child. Try VERY hard not to passively accept the ped's

" suggestions. " Hold off on further vaccinations until you can feel so much more

confident in your authoritative position with your child. You tell that ped

that they don't own your child. The decision to vax or not vax your child is

yours an yours alone. Don't give your pediatrician ANY authority when it comes

to your decisions concerning your child. You take ALL the authority. The

purpose of having a pediatrician is not to be told " you don't know anything

about what's good for your child " or take over your parental rights/authority to

ANY degree. You let him know that. If you have to, raise your voice! Any

pediatrician that gives you any implication that you know nothing, and he knows

everything....IS NOT OUT FOR YOUR CHILD'S BEST INTEREST. You talk down to him

if and when you have to. SHE IS YOUR CHILD.....NOT THEIRS.

Kimberley

ChristianityandVaccinations_AZvac-lib/

--------signature-------------

Are you aware that aborted fetal tissue is used in the development and

manufacture of vaccines? Read more about this and other startling facts about

vaccines at http://www.cogforlife.org and http://www.vaccinetruth.org

Here's a list of vaccine ingredients (chick embryo, formaldehyde, aluminum

hydroxide, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, gelatin-boiled pig skin, monkey kidney

tissue, boiled cow skin, coagulated horse blood...etc) from Centers for Disease

Control http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/Appendices/A/Excipient.pdf

Ask the US government what your pediatrician can't answer nipinfo@...

I Corinthians 3:16 " Do you not know that you yourselves are God's temple and

that God's Spirit lives in you?...for God's temple is sacred, and you are that

temple. "

Re: Introduction

>I didn't even put the two and two together until recently.

>Well I took my daughter in for her 6 mo old shots 6 months ago and told the

>dr I don't feel right about immunizing and he gave me the longest speel

>about why I should and made me feel like less of a mother for not wanting to

>vaccinate. Because I had no info yet on vaccinations I went along with his

>request.

I'm so sorry, . I know its hard, but you and other moms and dads

have got to get STRONG and say NO until you know more. You are the parent.

You are the one's left with the injured children not the doctor

And that is WHY many have stopped going to peds - the appointments are

basically for vaccines PERIOD. (I know, I was a PEDS nurse)

>Now she is due for her vaccines again and I am so afraid to tell him that I

>don't want to do this..

Don't go in. How awful to be afraid of your doctor? That tells me a lot

aobut him. If you can't stand up, don't go.

>I want to change all my chidlrens care over to a naturepath (sp?) But not

>sure if my insurance will cover it because I have regence blue shield and I

>also have suppliment dshs. So they probably won't cover it. (

Well, you need to find out

AND THINK long and hard.

For example, because your health insurance doesn't cover car repairs, do

you get car repairs anyway because you need them? You find the money. You

all have got to get out of this insurance mindset - I know it is hard and I

know money is very tight for many of you. But you are NOT GETTING anything

that contributes to health. You only get things that make your children

and selves sicker or die.

Start with my webpages

and if you can afford it my next vaccine dangers class.

And there are lots of good people in Washington

Check the website I maintain and see who might be near you and call them

http://www.homeopathy-cures.com/

click on find a homeopath

Good luck and stay away from peds - they are killers anymore

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

January 25, 2004

>> Don't go in. How awful to be afraid of your doctor? That tells

me a lot

> aobut him. If you can't stand up, don't go.

I agree with Sherri. I just don't take the kids unless they are sick

or something. They used to call me and remind me about visits/shots,

etc., but I finally told them that they could stop calling because I

wasn't going in. I've never had a real problem with the doctors and

my not vaccinating. They obviously know by now and don't bother

asking anymore. I've had some tell me to " not read the stuff on the

internet unless it's trusted information, " but I've read that and

then the arguments against it and have found a much more compelling

case on this side. When they recommend I read more I just nod and

say, " O.k. " I don't bother with the confrontation because I doubt

it'd do any good.

I noticed Sherri said you were from Washington...so am I -- I live in

the southwestern part close to Portland...how about you??

Nice to see you here...stay strong!!

Blessings,

Britt

Sign In

Introduction

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest