Re: To Teri(nojabs4us) Re: Hi from new member

[Guest guest]

Callie -

<< This is what I think. The world abounds with " issues " and there are

always

people on each side of an issue who are absolutely certain that they are

" right " and therefore everyone else must be WRONG. But to believe that just

because you are sincere and have no apparent motive to spread

misinformation,

that makes you instantly credible, and if someone disagrees with you, that

makes them ignorant, is a little naive. >>

I was not meaning this at ALL! I just find it fascinating that people that

have never even investigate the pros and cons for vaccines just automatically

jump on the bandwagon and figure that all 'anti-vaxers' are wackos and just

trying to stir up problems. I wasn't addressing your hubby in this at

all...sorry if it came across that way! :-) I just get tired of people

saying that anti-vaxers are just making stuff up without even investigating

what they're coming against first. That's all.

<< In order to believe that vaccines are really harmful and dangerous for

children and that the world would be better off without them, you have to

believe that either A) The scientists and doctors who develop and administer

vaccines to children are stupid and/or completely misinformed about the

subject, or the doctors and scientists who are pushing vaccines are evil

and know that vaccines kill and maim innocent children but, through some

vast

government conspiracy, are pursuing the money and fame behind vaccines and

vaccine research inspite of the damage done. >>

Unfortunately, I believe portions of both of the above are true. Not that

dr.'s are stupid...just that some are misinformed. And yes, I do believe

that the almighty dollar has a lot to do with it as well. But that's just my

opinion.

<< Since most reasonable adults shy away from conspiracy theories and we all

know that doctors and scientists are often also parents who love their

children as much as you or I do, then we can't very well subscribe to the

" their evil " theory. >>

There are actually numbers of dr.'s who do not vaccinate their own children.

Wonder why?

<< If anyone can come up with a really convincing explanation for why

doctors and researchers continue to recommend potentially lethal

vaccinations

then I'd love to hear it so I can pass it along to my husband.

>>

Unfortunately, I don't think there is one easy answer.

I will tell you, though, that one of the biggest things that immediately

aroused my suspicions with vaccinations came from reading the package

inserts. Not only do I have a problem with what is in vaccinations (aborted

fetuses, formaldehyde, etc.), but my biggest alert was that many of the

inserts from the manufacturers themselves say in black and white that 'this

vaccine has not been tested for its carcinogenic or mutative (don't think

that's the right word...it's late :-) effects. Why on earth not?! I would

think it would be one of their first studies!!!

Anyway, that's my 2cents. Please don't think I was criticizing your

hubby...I was actually just referring to the comments I hear all the time

from people who have just blindly followed protocol for shots.

Teri

[Guest guest]

Thanks for trying to explain this, . I must admit that I really don't

understand much about the global economy or how politics work. But when you

mention genocide and colonialization in connection to vaccinations, it

certainly seems like we've narrowed it down to the " their evil " theory. I

think very few people would buy it. Can you be more specific? I'm assuming

you've read that a particular country is using/has used vaccines to kill

groups of people for racial/religious purposes? Who? You made it sound like

it's a common practice " Vaccines are used alongside other tactics all over

the world for genocidal purposes. " Scientists and doctors are not just

white folks and we aren't living in Nazi Germany. So the idea that doctors

and scientists of every race and creed are continuing to stand behind a

practice designed to elminate some of their own people sounds a little

illogical. And once again, we are led back to a conspiracy theory, something

very hard to swallow.

I'm glad you agree that this is a complex question. I really don't think the

vaccinations debate has anything to do with intelligence. I've been reading

a lot of posts lately in this group where people are saying " oh those

pro-vaccine people think they're so smart. . . .but they're so ignorant. " It

seems a little arrogant. I guess when you've studied this issue as much as

most of the people in here have, it all seems so obvious that it's easy to

forget how it sounds to people who are hearing it for the first time.

A good friend of mine recently had a baby and was talking about the baby's

first set of shots and I told her that I haven't vaccinated Kira and why, and

she actually clamped her hand over her mouth and gasped. She was utterly

speachless and she looked at me like. . . . .well, probably a lot like I'm

sure I looked at the guy in the tinfoil hat, whom I mentioned in my last

email. :-) Most people equate Doctors with AUTHORITY and it's quite a leap

for them to take the medical establishment off it's pedastal long enough to

consider that the things they prescribe for us, presumebly to help us,

sometimes are bad for us. I think it's like you said, " it also has to do

with people's perspectives; sometimes people just aren't ready to start

thinking in a different way. " But that's all the more reason we should all

be respectful of each other's intelligence and resist the urge to start

bashing, name calling, and riding our high horses, which is what I'm reading

in some of the other posts. It only makes people sound fanatical and less

believable.

Thanks again for responding to my question. If you can keep helping me flush

out the answer to the motive question then I will be sincerely grateful. My

husband is a facts, figures and absolute proof kind of guy though, so vague

generalities won't fly.

Callie

<<Personally I think the answer is very complex. I think that for the most

part,

the average doctor or vaccine researcher truly believes that vaccines are good

things. When there is money involved, you can rationalize anything. It also

has

to do with people's perspectives; sometimes people just aren't ready to start

thinking in a different way. Their mind literally won't open to it. However,

when you're talking about the multinationals, the profits made from vaccines,

the

business side of it, and the governments in the West, then you have to think

about people really being evil. Vaccines are used alongside other tactics all

over the world for genocidal purposes. If you understand anything about how

the

global economy and politics work, and about racism and colonialization, then

the

rest of the story becomes clear. It's really complex and I'm not explaining

it

very well (maybe someone else can take a stab at it), but it's not just about

" they're either stupid or evil " ).

>>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/21/00 10:56:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Foulkfamly@... writes:

<< But that's all the more reason we should all

be respectful of each other's intelligence and resist the urge to start

bashing, name calling, and riding our high horses, which is what I'm reading

in some of the other posts. It only makes people sound fanatical and less

believable. >>

Callie -

I completely agree. I have no problem with someone that choses to vaccinate

or to selectively vaccinate. What I have a 'problem' with is when people

just do it cause they're supposed to. But even so, it's still their choice

and their family. But I agree completely that we need to respect people's

choices and opinions. It can get a little 'direct' here, but I think that's

just because it is such a hot, passionate issue and people get very

passionate about it. I have heard (not necessarily here) name calling from

both sides of the issue, which is very unnecessary.

<< My

husband is a facts, figures and absolute proof kind of guy though, so vague

generalities won't fly. >>

You might want to go through the archives a little. There's also a whole ton

of websites (which if you can't find them in the archives, let me know and I

can send them to you) that have excellent information. As far as facts and

figures, that is hard to place in black and white, because the scientific

community doesn't do the research that is needed to evaluate both sides. As

I said in a previous post, several vaccines, per the manufacturer, have never

even been studied for their carcinogenic affects. And they've never really

studied a connection between shots and SIDS. They just say they're not

connected, but they can't provide any scientific evidence that they've

studied it out. I know that doesn't really help. I'm a facts person too,

but as I've studied this issue, my eyes have really been opened.

Hope you get lots of good info from this list.

Teri

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/21/00 12:01:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

snakken@... writes:

<< Look at the tobacco industry lying, lying. Do we think only bad guys work

at tobacco companies and only good guys work at drug companies. >>

Sherri -

That is a perfect example...I hadn't thought of it. THanks!!

Teri

[Guest guest]

Personally I think the answer is very complex. I think that for the most part,

the average doctor or vaccine researcher truly believes that vaccines are good

things. When there is money involved, you can rationalize anything. It also

has

to do with people's perspectives; sometimes people just aren't ready to start

thinking in a different way. Their mind literally won't open to it. However,

when you're talking about the multinationals, the profits made from vaccines,

the

business side of it, and the governments in the West, then you have to think

about people really being evil. Vaccines are used alongside other tactics all

over the world for genocidal purposes. If you understand anything about how the

global economy and politics work, and about racism and colonialization, then the

rest of the story becomes clear. It's really complex and I'm not explaining it

very well (maybe someone else can take a stab at it), but it's not just about

" they're either stupid or evil " ).

Foulkfamly@... wrote:

> Hi Teri,

> Thanks for the welcome.

>

> I think maybe I can clear up your question. In response to my comment about

> my husband thinking antivaccine activists are a small and misguided minority,

> You wrote:

> <<My one question when people say this is 'why'? Why would so many people (I

> can't believe how many I come across) speak out against vaccines? What could

> we POSSIBLY have to gain by giving people facts about the dangers of

> vaccines? Really, think about it. There is nothing to gain by people just

> warning of the dangers! It's a rather ignorant statement (nothing against

> your dh...many people say the same thing!)>>

>

> This is what I think. The world abounds with " issues " and there are always

> people on each side of an issue who are absolutely certain that they are

> " right " and therefore everyone else must be WRONG. But to believe that just

> because you are sincere and have no apparent motive to spread misinformation,

> that makes you instantly credible, and if someone disagrees with you, that

> makes them ignorant, is a little naive. This is not a black and white issue.

> Otherwise there would be no debate. My husband is a brilliant man (of

> course I think so, I'm in love with him. LOL) and I think his major sticking

> point on this issue is this:

> In order to believe that vaccines are really harmful and dangerous for

> children and that the world would be better off without them, you have to

> believe that either A) The scientists and doctors who develop and administer

> vaccines to children are stupid and/or completely misinformed about the

> subject, or the doctors and scientists who are pushing vaccines are evil

> and know that vaccines kill and maim innocent children but, through some vast

> government conspiracy, are pursuing the money and fame behind vaccines and

> vaccine research inspite of the damage done.

> Since most reasonable adults shy away from conspiracy theories and we all

> know that doctors and scientists are often also parents who love their

> children as much as you or I do, then we can't very well subscribe to the

> " their evil " theory. So then we're left with the " their stupid/misinformed

> theory " . But wait! Aren't these people who have gone through some 8 years

> of grueling medical school and then residency, etc. . . . Stupid? I don't

> think so. So what's left?

>

> And that's why people don't just roll over and go " Oh, okay, you're right " ,

> just because you're sincere and you have nothing to gain by warning people of

> the danger you perceive. I live in LA and I once met a very sincere

> gentleman on a street corner, wearing a tinfoil hat, who was warning anyone

> and everyone who would listen, at the top of his lungs, that we are

> surrounded by aliens and that if you don't protect your mind from the alian

> brainwaves with some sort of protective metal barrier then they will take

> control of your brain. He didn't have anything to gain from warning people

> about this, but I didn't go home and make a tin foil hat. LOL.

>

> Well, sorry for the long-winded answer. You'll hopefully be happy to know

> that I am making some progress with my husband. He was interested in the

> SV40 information and also in the information about the carcinogenic/mutogenic

> additives in the vaccines. I also showed him some graphs that showed that

> the numbers of cases of most diseases were already in decline before the

> vaccines became available and he was impressed, albeit a little skeptical

> about that data. I know that eventually our mutual love and adoration for

> our daughter will lead us to an agreement about what is best for her. He

> almost always comes around to my way of thinking. :-) Like I said though,

> it's just the above mentioned question that we keep coming to an impass

> about. If anyone can come up with a really convincing explanation for why

> doctors and researchers continue to recommend potentially lethal vaccinations

> then I'd love to hear it so I can pass it along to my husband.

>

> sincerely,

> Callie

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Find long lost high school friends:

> 1/7080/10/_/489317/_/964150014/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/21/00 10:58:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Foulkfamly@... writes:

<<

Thanks again for responding to my question. If you can keep helping me

flush

out the answer to the motive question then I will be sincerely grateful. My

husband is a facts, figures and absolute proof kind of guy though, so vague

generalities won't fly. >>

I know there are studies going on using the HCG vaccine for birth control

in India.And didn't someone post about villagers stoning medical personnel

who where going to give vaccines,because so many of the village children were

damaged the last time?I think that was in India too.

What I see is that vaccine reactions are just sooooooo easy to deny.Only the

most serious (almost dead or major seizures) reactions that occur IMMEDIATELY

after the shot seem to be acknowledged and only if you have all the proof.It

seems like parents are forever struggling to PROVE a reaction

occured.Vaccines work,but not as good as real exposure/immunity.The insert

shows no testing has been done for its possible role in causing cancer or for

use in pregnant women,and yet they give it.Cancer is blamed on other

causes,and while there are many causes for cancer my question is why is it so

hard to admit vaccines might be one of them?

Heck they acknowledge that vaccines cause cancer in some cats!!!!!!!

Those reactions have created a booming business for conventional medicine.

For allopaths it comes down to the old motto:benefits outweigh the risks.

What makes me angry is that conventional medicine is not the only valid way

to maintain health or treat disease in a person,and yet everyone is expected

to *go to the doctor* because he knows best. There are many ways to maintain

health as there are many religions/paths to God/Oneness with the universe.We

all should have the right to choose what we feel is best for us and our

family.

sara

[Guest guest]

There is no ONE answer...

At 01:52 PM 07/21/2000 EDT, you wrote:

>Thanks for trying to explain this, . I must admit that I really don't

>understand much about the global economy or how politics work. But when you

>mention genocide and colonialization in connection to vaccinations, it

>certainly seems like we've narrowed it down to the " their evil " theory. I

>think very few people would buy it.

Look at the tobacco industry lying, lying. Do we think only bad guys work

at tobacco companies and only good guys work at drug companies.

Corporations are an entity unto themselves and for the most part are out to

make $$ and it doesn't matter how it is done. I don't like to believe it

but it is verified before my eyes everyday.

Can you be more specific? I'm assuming

>you've read that a particular country is using/has used vaccines to kill

>groups of people for racial/religious purposes? Who? You made it sound

like

>it's a common practice " Vaccines are used alongside other tactics all over

>the world for genocidal purposes. "

Read Emerging Viruses by Len Horowitz - incredibly well documented with

photocopies of such statements. World Health Organization and all.

Scientists and doctors are not just

>white folks and we aren't living in Nazi Germany. So the idea that doctors

>and scientists of every race and creed are continuing to stand behind a

>practice designed to elminate some of their own people sounds a little

>illogical. And once again, we are led back to a conspiracy theory,

something

>very hard to swallow.

Not on an individual level for doctors but the system. The drug companies

came out of Nazi Germany and it is too complicated to explain here -

Emerging Viruses - Len Horowitz. I will also post some articles.

>

Most people equate Doctors with AUTHORITY and it's quite a leap

>for them to take the medical establishment off it's pedastal long enough to

>consider that the things they prescribe for us, presumebly to help us,

>sometimes are bad for us.

Its a HUGE leap for some people. It changes your whole world view. Once

you comprehend what may be and is behind this it will MAKE YOU SICK and you

will never view the world the same. Most people cannot handle that.

Vaccines are just one part of the absolute horrific scenario that is going

on on this planet.

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA 95959

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO

VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

KVMR Broadcaster/Programmer/Investigative Reporter, Nevada City CA

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

[Guest guest]

Re: To Teri(nojabs4us) Re: Hi from new member

> Thanks for trying to explain this, . I must admit that I really

don't

> understand much about the global economy or how politics work. But when

you

> mention genocide and colonialization in connection to vaccinations, it

> certainly seems like we've narrowed it down to the " their evil " theory. I

> think very few people would buy it. Can you be more specific? I'm

assuming

> you've read that a particular country is using/has used vaccines to kill

> groups of people for racial/religious purposes? Who? You made it sound

like

> it's a common practice " Vaccines are used alongside other tactics all over

> the world for genocidal purposes. " Scientists and doctors are not just

> white folks and we aren't living in Nazi Germany. So the idea that

doctors

> and scientists of every race and creed are continuing to stand behind a

> practice designed to elminate some of their own people sounds a little

> illogical. And once again, we are led back to a conspiracy theory,

something

> very hard to swallow.

It is the concensus belief that " there are no conspiracies " , so anyone even

hinting at a conspiracy is labelled a " conspiracy nut " .

Big Brother is alive and well and decreed " there are no conspiracies " .

When you look at medicine there is a huge conspiracy to keep us using drugs

over herbs, nutrients, homeopathics, naturopathy etc. This can be looked at

as just business practice, or the power of economics. Around 98% of the

drugs in use are useless and harmful especially in the long term. You could

ditch vaccination today and we would all be healthier and far richer--shame

about the researchers and their search for knowledge, also the purpose of

cancer research. None of them really want a cure for cancer.

In cancer they can only get away with chemotherapy etc by suppressing the

cheap, more effective alternatives like Gerson, laetrile

http://www.sumeria.net/health/laetrile.html http://www.realityzone.com/

http://www.navi.net/~rsc/, Burton immune therapy, Hoxsey herbs and so on

http://www.best.com/~handpen/Cancell/cancell.htm. Been going on for over

100 years. Dr Coley had more success in 1890's with his fever therapy with

breast cancer than they are getting now

http://www.sumeria.net/canc/rmoss.html. The conspiracy to ignore cancer

causing chemicals http://www.preventcancer.com/

http://www.sumeria.net/health/garynu1.html

Same with heart disease http://www.internetwks.com/pauling/

http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/vite.html

http://home.online.no/~dusan/books/herbal_cayenne1.html

http://www.drcranton.com/chelation/carter.htm , alzheimer's

http://www.midnightcafe.com/alzh/, arthritis www.doctoryourself.com , aids

http://home.online.no/~dusan/diseases/aids/aids_dr_shulze.html and SIDS.

What do you call the policy of ignoring life saving medical information--eg

vitamin C would prevent sids? Know for years. Cures polio, hepatitis,

measles etc http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/

As for vaccination there are various conspiracies around although you

wouldn't want to get caught saying it for the above reason. Mostly is is

just a huge money making machine. They sell vaccines we banned as dangerous

here (Urabe MMR) to third world countries--also this experiment

http://www.cco.net/~trufax/vaccine/0696.html. Not sure what they would

think of that. They kill off the gays with contaminated (deliberate

probably, certainly an experiment in genocide) hepatitis B vaccine. They

practice dubious research on third world children

http://www.whaleto.freeserve.co.uk/Vaccines/lanctot.html and women

http://www.trufax.org/vaccine/v7.html

..

" My final conclusion after forty years or more in this business

[medicine] is that the unofficial policy of the World Health Organization

and the unoffical policy of the 'Save the Children's Fund' and ... [other

vaccine promoting] organizations is one of murder and genocide. . . . I

cannot see any other possible explanation. . . . You cannot immunize sick

children, malnourished children, and expect to get away with it. You'll kill

far more children than would have died from natural infection. " ---Dr

Kalokerinos http://www.whaleto.freeserve.co.uk/Vaccines/Kalokerinos.html

And so on

[Guest guest]

Foulkfamly@... wrote:

Thanks for trying to explain this, .

I must admit that I really don't

understand much about the global economy or how politics work.

But when you

mention genocide and colonialization in connection to vaccinations,

it

certainly seems like we've narrowed it down to the "their evil" theory.

I

think very few people would buy it. Can you be more specific?

I'm assuming

you've read that a particular country is using/has used vaccines to

kill

groups of people for racial/religious purposes? Who? You

made it sound like

it's a common practice "Vaccines are used alongside other tactics all

over

the world for genocidal purposes."

Vaccinations and other drugs are routinely tested on subjects in less developed

countries, I guess just in case they are dangerous. There are also

lots of examples of companies in industrialized countries that sell products

such as pesticides, drugs, formula, etc to LDCs because they have been

banned, or not approved for use in N America or Europe. Because they

do not have the same standards or organizations like the FDA to OK them,

they get bought and then cause lots of health problems (this is one of

the real causes of AIDS). A good source for examples is Jon Rappoport's

book AIDS Inc. (has anybody read this - it's so good). Someone

recently posted an article relating similar examples. The link is: http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/thebe2.htm.

Foulkfamly@... wrote:

I'm glad you agree that this is a complex question. I really

don't think the

vaccinations debate has anything to do with intelligence. I've

been reading

a lot of posts lately in this group where people are saying "oh those

pro-vaccine people think they're so smart. . . .but they're so ignorant."

There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Someone can

be very intelligent, but also incredibly ignorant.

It

seems a little arrogant. I guess when you've studied this issue

as much as

most of the people in here have, it all seems so obvious that it's

easy to

forget how it sounds to people who are hearing it for the first time.

A good friend of mine recently had a baby and was talking about the

baby's

first set of shots and I told her that I haven't vaccinated Kira and

why, and

she actually clamped her hand over her mouth and gasped. She

was utterly

speachless and she looked at me like. . . . .well, probably a lot like

I'm

sure I looked at the guy in the tinfoil hat, whom I mentioned in my

last

email. :-) Most people equate Doctors with AUTHORITY and

it's quite a leap

for them to take the medical establishment off it's pedastal long enough

to

consider that the things they prescribe for us, presumebly to help

us,

sometimes are bad for us. I think it's like you said, "it also

has to do

with people's perspectives; sometimes people just aren't ready to start

thinking in a different way." But that's all the more reason

we should all

be respectful of each other's intelligence and resist the urge to start

bashing, name calling, and riding our high horses, which is what I'm

reading

in some of the other posts. It only makes people sound fanatical

and less

believable.

Thanks again for responding to my question. If you can keep helping

me flush

out the answer to the motive question then I will be sincerely grateful.

My

husband is a facts, figures and absolute proof kind of guy though,

so vague

generalities won't fly.

There are lots of facts and figures to support the anti-vaccination position.

Has he figured out yet how the CDC, etc manipulate their numbers to suit

their purposes?

Callie

<<Personally I think the answer is very complex. I think

that for the most

part,

the average doctor or vaccine researcher truly believes that vaccines

are good

things. When there is money involved, you can rationalize anything.

It also

has

to do with people's perspectives; sometimes people just aren't ready

to start

thinking in a different way. Their mind literally won't open

to it. However,

when you're talking about the multinationals, the profits made from

vaccines,

the

business side of it, and the governments in the West, then you have

to think

about people really being evil. Vaccines are used alongside other

tactics all

over the world for genocidal purposes. If you understand anything

about how

the

global economy and politics work, and about racism and colonialization,

then

the

rest of the story becomes clear. It's really complex and I'm

not explaining

it

very well (maybe someone else can take a stab at it), but it's not

just about

"they're either stupid or evil").

>>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

To email plain text is conventional, to add graphics is divine.

We'll show you how at www.supersig.com.

1/6811/10/_/489317/_/964201940/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Foulkfamly@... wrote:

Thanks for trying to explain this, .

I must admit that I really don't

understand much about the global economy or how politics work.

But when you

mention genocide and colonialization in connection to vaccinations,

it

certainly seems like we've narrowed it down to the "their evil" theory.

I

think very few people would buy it. Can you be more specific?

I'm assuming

you've read that a particular country is using/has used vaccines to

kill

groups of people for racial/religious purposes? Who? You

made it sound like

it's a common practice "Vaccines are used alongside other tactics all

over

the world for genocidal purposes." Scientists and doctors

are not just

white folks and we aren't living in Nazi Germany. So the idea

that doctors

and scientists of every race and creed are continuing to stand behind

a

practice designed to elminate some of their own people sounds a little

illogical. And once again, we are led back to a conspiracy theory,

something

very hard to swallow.

I'm glad you agree that this is a complex question. I really don't

think the

vaccinations debate has anything to do with intelligence. I've

been reading

a lot of posts lately in this group where people are saying "oh those

pro-vaccine people think they're so smart. . . .but they're so ignorant."

It

seems a little arrogant. I guess when you've studied this issue

as much as

most of the people in here have, it all seems so obvious that it's

easy to

forget how it sounds to people who are hearing it for the first time.

A good friend of mine recently had a baby and was talking about the

baby's

first set of shots and I told her that I haven't vaccinated Kira and

why, and

she actually clamped her hand over her mouth and gasped. She

was utterly

speachless and she looked at me like. . . . .well, probably a lot like

I'm

sure I looked at the guy in the tinfoil hat, whom I mentioned in my

last

email. :-) Most people equate Doctors with AUTHORITY and

it's quite a leap

for them to take the medical establishment off it's pedastal long enough

to

consider that the things they prescribe for us, presumebly to help

us,

sometimes are bad for us. I think it's like you said, "it also

has to do

with people's perspectives; sometimes people just aren't ready to start

thinking in a different way." But that's all the more reason

we should all

be respectful of each other's intelligence and resist the urge to start

bashing, name calling, and riding our high horses, which is what I'm

reading

in some of the other posts. It only makes people sound fanatical

and less

believable.

Thanks again for responding to my question. If you can keep helping

me flush

out the answer to the motive question then I will be sincerely grateful.

My

husband is a facts, figures and absolute proof kind of guy though,

so vague

generalities won't fly.

Callie

<<Personally I think the answer is very complex. I think

that for the most

part,

the average doctor or vaccine researcher truly believes that vaccines

are good

things. When there is money involved, you can rationalize anything.

It also

has

to do with people's perspectives; sometimes people just aren't ready

to start

thinking in a different way. Their mind literally won't open

to it. However,

when you're talking about the multinationals, the profits made from

vaccines,

the

business side of it, and the governments in the West, then you have

to think

about people really being evil. Vaccines are used alongside other

tactics all

over the world for genocidal purposes. If you understand anything

about how

the

global economy and politics work, and about racism and colonialization,

then

the

rest of the story becomes clear. It's really complex and I'm

not explaining

it

very well (maybe someone else can take a stab at it), but it's not

just about

"they're either stupid or evil").

>>

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Scientists and doctors are not just

white folks and we aren't living in Nazi Germany. So the idea

that doctors

and scientists of every race and creed are continuing to stand behind

a

practice designed to elminate some of their own people sounds a little

illogical. And once again, we are led back to a conspiracy theory,

something

very hard to swallow.

I'm glad you agree that this is a complex question. I really don't

think the

vaccinations debate has anything to do with intelligence. I've

been reading

a lot of posts lately in this group where people are saying "oh those

pro-vaccine people think they're so smart. . . .but they're so ignorant."

It

seems a little arrogant. I guess when you've studied this issue

as much as

most of the people in here have, it all seems so obvious that it's

easy to

forget how it sounds to people who are hearing it for the first time.

A good friend of mine recently had a baby and was talking about the

baby's

first set of shots and I told her that I haven't vaccinated Kira and

why, and

she actually clamped her hand over her mouth and gasped. She

was utterly

speachless and she looked at me like. . . . .well, probably a lot like

I'm

sure I looked at the guy in the tinfoil hat, whom I mentioned in my

last

email. :-) Most people equate Doctors with AUTHORITY and

it's quite a leap

for them to take the medical establishment off it's pedastal long enough

to

consider that the things they prescribe for us, presumebly to help

us,

sometimes are bad for us. I think it's like you said, "it also

has to do

with people's perspectives; sometimes people just aren't ready to start

thinking in a different way." But that's all the more reason

we should all

be respectful of each other's intelligence and resist the urge to start

bashing, name calling, and riding our high horses, which is what I'm

reading

in some of the other posts. It only makes people sound fanatical

and less

believable.

Thanks again for responding to my question. If you can keep helping

me flush

out the answer to the motive question then I will be sincerely grateful.

My

husband is a facts, figures and absolute proof kind of guy though,

so vague

generalities won't fly.

Callie

<<Personally I think the answer is very complex. I think

that for the most

part,

the average doctor or vaccine researcher truly believes that vaccines

are good

things. When there is money involved, you can rationalize anything.

It also

has

to do with people's perspectives; sometimes people just aren't ready

to start

thinking in a different way. Their mind literally won't open

to it. However,

when you're talking about the multinationals, the profits made from

vaccines,

the

business side of it, and the governments in the West, then you have

to think

about people really being evil. Vaccines are used alongside other

tactics all

over the world for genocidal purposes. If you understand anything

about how

the

global economy and politics work, and about racism and colonialization,

then

the

rest of the story becomes clear. It's really complex and I'm

not explaining

it

very well (maybe someone else can take a stab at it), but it's not

just about

"they're either stupid or evil").

>>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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We'll show you how at www.supersig.com.

1/6811/10/_/489317/_/964201940/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Sheri Nakken wrote:

> There is no ONE answer...

> At 01:52 PM 07/21/2000 EDT, you wrote:

> >Thanks for trying to explain this, . I must admit that I really don't

> >understand much about the global economy or how politics work. But when you

> >mention genocide and colonialization in connection to vaccinations, it

> >certainly seems like we've narrowed it down to the " their evil " theory. I

> >think very few people would buy it.

>

> Look at the tobacco industry lying, lying. Do we think only bad guys work

> at tobacco companies and only good guys work at drug companies.

> Corporations are an entity unto themselves and for the most part are out to

> make $$ and it doesn't matter how it is done. I don't like to believe it

> but it is verified before my eyes everyday.

>

> Can you be more specific? I'm assuming

> >you've read that a particular country is using/has used vaccines to kill

> >groups of people for racial/religious purposes? Who? You made it sound

> like

> >it's a common practice " Vaccines are used alongside other tactics all over

> >the world for genocidal purposes. "

>

> Read Emerging Viruses by Len Horowitz - incredibly well documented with

> photocopies of such statements. World Health Organization and all.

>

> Scientists and doctors are not just

> >white folks and we aren't living in Nazi Germany.

I'm sure there are some people of colour and women (of all colours) working for

big multinational companies. However, these companies, as well as the

government, are predominantly white men. White men control the world. That's

what racism and oppression are all about.

> So the idea that doctors

> >and scientists of every race and creed are continuing to stand behind a

> >practice designed to elminate some of their own people sounds a little

> >illogical. And once again, we are led back to a conspiracy theory,

> something

> >very hard to swallow.

>

> Not on an individual level for doctors but the system. The drug companies

> came out of Nazi Germany and it is too complicated to explain here -

> Emerging Viruses - Len Horowitz. I will also post some articles.

> >

> Most people equate Doctors with AUTHORITY and it's quite a leap

> >for them to take the medical establishment off it's pedastal long enough to

> >consider that the things they prescribe for us, presumebly to help us,

> >sometimes are bad for us.

>

> Its a HUGE leap for some people. It changes your whole world view. Once

> you comprehend what may be and is behind this it will MAKE YOU SICK and you

> will never view the world the same. Most people cannot handle that.

> Vaccines are just one part of the absolute horrific scenario that is going

> on on this planet.

>

> --------------------------------------------------------

> Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

> Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA 95959

> http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

> ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

> DECISION TO

> VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

> Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

> http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

> International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

> Education, Homeopathic Education

> KVMR Broadcaster/Programmer/Investigative Reporter, Nevada City CA

> CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

>

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