Re: I don´t know what to do

[Guest guest]

Hello Anita,

wanted to ask for advice re: non-T4 therapy. I am on 50mcg of T4/day and also taking (after seeing Dr P last October and him diagnosing me with Adrenal Fatigue - I did the Genova test too and that diagnosed Adrenal Fatigue too...)5x NAX, 5 Nutri thyroid, 200ng Selenium, 800mcg folic acid, 300mg CoQ10, B12,Ca, Mg, Zn, Copper (the latter four in the evening), 2 x 1000mg 5HTP, 2000-4000iu of D3, Vit C (although I often forget Vit C...) Omega 3,6,9 (Udo's Choice), soya lecithin and Probiotics (I hope I haven't left out anything).Crikey....that's quite a list. Can I just ask.... do you really need 5 of the Nutri thyroid complex? The usual recommendation is 1-3.

And is there a reason why are you take Calcium? Have you had your calcium levels checked?

Same question re Zinc and Copper.

Reason I am asking.... If you take all this without knowing your actual levels – in particular for Calcium, Zinc and Copper – you could easily overdose, which would not be a good thing. Calcium only needs to be supplemented if the level were actually low – and if the level is low, it might mean something is up with the parathyroid function. Contrary to common belief, calcium supplementation does NOT strengthen the bones; on the contrary - it makes them brittle. What you need for maintaining healthy bones is Vit D3 .

Zinc and copper are both heavy metals – and although both are important to be maintained at the correct levels, supplementing without knowing the actual levels is not really helpful. My blood test results were all within range although my free T3 was in the lower end of the spectrum a bit and my TSH was vv low (even though I am hypothyroid).

This indicates that you are either not converting, might have a receptor problem or something else is preventing the thyroid hormone from getting inside the cells. The list of possibilities is long.... – Do you know if you have positive autoantibodies? (TPO and/or TgAB)My white blood cell was very low (again) and I managed to get some Nystan frommy GP (for 6 weeks) to try to beat off my recurring Candida (this was detected with Genova test last year too). The Nystan worked great last year but this year it seems to have no results and after 5 weeks of taking it I still feel rubbish.

Candida is a devil to kill off, as I know only too well. I don't know if the following will help, but I stumbled across the mention of Lufenuron on Dr. Myhill's website and because I trust Dr. Myhill's judgement, I have ordered it for myself. Haven't got it yet, so can't comment, but I will let you all know if it has a positive effect on me once I've tried it. It might be worth you reading about it....http://lufenuroncandidacure.owndoc.com/

My GP wouldn't test serum ferritin, D3, Ca, Mg, etc. as my thyroid test results are 'normal'.This is a pity...and your doctor is very wrong in assuming that "normal" thyroid results equate to a "normal" iron status. Ferritin in particular is extremely important to have checked out; if you were low in iron, your thyroid hormone cannot be utilized properly. Any chance of getting at least ferritin done somehow?

My symptoms are: fatigue, muzzy head, muscle aches and pains, hair loss, dry skin, due to the adrenal fatigue exercising is difficult and painful, some weight gain, low grade depression, impaired digestion..... or in other words – whatever your TFT's say or however "normal" they look to your GP, you are definitely not properly medicated. Besides – 50 mcg of Levothyroxine is such a low baby dose, I would not expect anyone to be optimally medicated on that.

I'm so fed up with my GP saying that he is not 'comfortable' with prescribing T3 only treatment as it is 'out of his area of expertise' but going to an Endo had no results last year as I already started Dr P's therapy and my blood tests improved. Essentially I would have to stop taking all my supplements and get really bad again (like last year) to get an endo appointment and get them to see that T4 only doesn't seem to be doing the job for me.So I am thinking about starting to take Erfa or T3.

I could not agree more. In my personal opinion natural desiccated thyroid is the best thyroid treatment there is... it mimics the closest to what a healthy thyroid gland would produce. T3 – in my personal opinion – is a last resort to be used when people can't tolerate natural thyroid.

Also, all these supplements are so expensive, even with the TPA Discount at Nutri, it's costing me about 100/ month and it's hard to afford it, especially that I'm still not OK even though I'm taking them regularly.I agree.... you really need to take a hard look at what you are taking and sort out what you really need and what not.

I don't know how to decide whether to take Erfa or T3, where to get it from and how much to take how often (if I take 50mcg of levothyroxin at the moment).Well, that's the easy part. Start with Erfa. You can buy Erfa from here: http://www.valuepharmaceuticals.com/Armour-Thyroid.php They sell generic Armour. It is made by Erfa in Canada and is simply called `Thyroid'. On the on-line form just tick 'no prescription required' and nothing more. They will accept your c/c payment. I would opt for 1 grain strength (60 mg) as it is the most versatile, can be split or added as required.

What are the costs of Erfa and T3?Please take a look at the website about the prices.To start Erfa is easy.... you'd stop your Levo one morning and take ½ grain (1/2 tablet) instead and you stick with that dosage for at least 7-10 days before upping the dose to 1 grain. Rule of thumb – you up by ½ grain approx every 4 weeks until you experience slight hyperthyroid symptoms, then you cut back to the previous level and that is your correct dose. It is, however, important to sort out any possible underlying issues, because if for instance you still had serious Candida issues or very low iron, no amount or kind of thyroid hormone will make you well. You need to tackle those issues simultaneously.

I hope this helps.

With best wishes and Merry Christmas to you.

[Guest guest]

Hi Anita,

The cost of NT? Well I don't know about Erfa, but I use either the one from

thailand, which is around £80 for a thousand tablets of 1 grain, or I use

nature throid which is just under £18 for 100 tablets of 1 grain.

T3 is around £60 for 300 x 25 mcg tablets..... Details are in the files

under pharmacies...... Any particular reason why you wanted Erfa?

If you are full of aches and pains and have low levels of free t3, then there

is a chance that T3 only might be the way forward.....

Hope this helps....

xx

>

> What are the costs of Erfa and T3?

>

> Can anyone advise me re: these issues please?

>

> Many thanks in advance, much appreciated.

>

> Anita

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me, really appreciate it!

I am taking 5 Nutri Thyroids because that's what Dr P told me to take. How do I

know if I can take less?? Shall I just reduce and see what happens?

I had no blood test re: my Calcium, Zn, Cu or ferritin levels; my GP didn't

think they were necessary since my T4 and TSH were OK (even though the TSH was

vv low and the FT3 was lower than mid-range).

I started to take all these supplements as these were the 'usual suspects' for

people with conversion problems and since my GP didn't give me the blood tests,

I did what I thought was the best to eliminate the possibility of having too low

levels of these vitamins and minerals... I had a bone density scan last year and

that came back as perfect. Never had TPO and / or TgAB tested, what would my

symptoms be if these were not OK?

When I told my GP what symptoms I had, he told me that he would normally

prescribe ANTIDEPRESSANTS!! (like he has done for me before, but when I came off

them I had the adrenal fatigue; clearly the antidepressants just masked the

symptoms of my hypothyroidism and when I came off them it was all just a lot

worse! I told him I wasn't depressed!! But when I came off the antidepressants

in Dec 2009 and had all the adrenal fatigue symptoms (and Genova tests confirmed

this in Oct 2010), he increased my Levo to 75mcg but I had hyper symptoms and

had to reduce back to 50. When I had hyper symptoms, my T4 levels went up, my

TSH came right down but my FT3 was still low, hence I recognised I wasn't

converting (my GP didn't even think it was possible not to convert!!!) and I

started to investigate what I can do to get better...

I know 50 is a low dose. I used to be on 100mg of Levo up until about 14 years

ago (I was diagnosed 15 years ago) but then with nutritional therapy I was able

to cut down to 75mg and acupuncture helped me cut down to 50mg 10 years ago.

Unfortunately these are very costly therapies too...

Can my GP refuse me the blood tests for ferritin, calcium, zinc and copper? If

so, any advise please as to where I can get these checked?

Thank you for the info re: Lufenuron, I haven't heard of it before but heard a

lot about Dr Myhill and I think very highly of her. I had a look on the website

and will order it just something is wrong with my PayPal account. I would do

anything to get rid of the candida! I don't know how to gage how bad it is, but

from my symptoms, it's been worse but it's been much better too...

Thank you for all the info re: Erfa! I will definitely get some once I know my

ferritin level is OK (if it is low, I will take some Floradix unless anyone can

recommend anything better?)

I don't know what other supplements are 'safe to cut out', I'm so scared of

being a vegetable again!! I think the Selenium, D3 drops, Nutri Thyroid, NAX,

folate and B12, 5HTP, Omega 3,6,9 and probiotics are needed, and so is the Vit C

and CoQ10, and then the iron if my ferritin is too low. The Ca, Mg, Zn and Cu

are debatable, to be honest I started the Ca and Mg because I'm lactose

intolerant and had to think about my Ca and Mg intake since I can't get it from

milk and I thought I needed to supplement it??

Thank you again for all the help and advice, it is much appreciated!

Warm Regards,

Anita

[Guest guest]

Hello Anita,

I am taking 5 Nutri Thyroids because that's what Dr P told me to take. How do Iknow if I can take less?? Shall I just reduce and see what happens?Since you are a patient of Dr. Peatfield's, I would ask him if or when you can reduce the Nutri Thyroid. I don't know why he's put you on such a high dose, but perhaps it's to support your system because you are on such a low dose of Levo (50 mcg?). I would expect the dose of NT to reduce as the dose of thyroid hormone goes up, but ask him what he has in mind for you.

I had no blood test re: my Calcium, Zn, Cu or ferritin levels; my GP didn't think they were necessary since my T4 and TSH were OK (even though the TSH was vv low and the FT3 was lower than mid-range).

Your GP's argument that those tests at not necessary because your T4 and TSH were in range is a silly and very short-sighted one. If everything were all right, you would not have hypothyroid symptoms. You need to have your thyroid antibodies checked (TPO and TgAB) and you also need at least your ferritin level checked to see if you might suffer from Hashimoto's disease. If your GP won't do it, perhaps you could ask for a referral to an endo of you own choice.... ?

I started to take all these supplements as these were the 'usual suspects' forpeople with conversion problems and since my GP didn't give me the blood tests,I did what I thought was the best to eliminate the possibility of having too lowlevels of these vitamins and minerals...

There are supplements that you can take without any risk – like Vit C, Vit B12 and a Vit B complex, Q10, Selenium (~180 iu) – because those are supplements every hypothyroid patient will need anyway.... but before taking supps like calcium, zinc or copper you should first find out your levels, because in excess those will become toxic.

For Zinc you can test yourself:

http://ethicalnutrients.com.au/content/products/zinc-test and I have a feeling (but am not sure) that a lack of zinc in most cases also signifies a lack of copper – can someone `in the know' please comment on that?

Calcium needs to be tested. It is very rare that calcium needs to be supplemented – if calcium were "out", then the likelihood is that you have a problem with the parathyroid glands. For optimal bone health you do not need calcium, you need mainly D3.

I had a bone density scan last year andthat came back as perfect.

That's good – but still you should get your Vit D3 level checked. Take a look at this little video. He is not the best of speakers and he wants to promote his book, but what he says is absolutely true.

and read this...

http://www.calciumlie.net/

Surprisingly, my own GP told me that this was true. He tested my D3 levels and the results came back low. He knows I take a lot of supplements and he warned me against taking calcium und told me to take D3 instead.

Never had TPO and / or TgAB tested, what would my symptoms be if these were not OK?

It is important to know if you have positive thyroid antibodies (TPO and TgAB), because if you had positive levels, that would prove that you suffer from Hashimoto's disease, the auto-immune form of Hypothyroidism. It also means that your blood thyroid results have to be taken with a pinch of salt, so to speak, as positive AA's can create "strange" TFT results. – also – when you know that your thyroid condition is of an auto-immune nature, the risk for developing other autoimmune diseases is higher – so to my mind it is important to be certain. Do ask for your antibodies to be checked. You don't get any symptoms from the presence of AA's; nor is the treatment any different... but it is still important to know where you stand.

When I told my GP what symptoms I had, he told me that he would normallyprescribe ANTIDEPRESSANTS!! (like he has done for me before, but when I came offthem I had the adrenal fatigue; clearly the antidepressants just masked thesymptoms of my hypothyroidism and when I came off them it was all just a lotworse! I told him I wasn't depressed!! But when I came off the antidepressantsin Dec 2009 and had all the adrenal fatigue symptoms (and Genova tests confirmedthis in Oct 2010), he increased my Levo to 75mcg but I had hyper symptoms andhad to reduce back to 50. When I had hyper symptoms, my T4 levels went up, myTSH came right down but my FT3 was still low, hence I recognised I wasn'tconverting (my GP didn't even think it was possible not to convert!!!) and Istarted to investigate what I can do to get better...I know 50 is a low dose. I used to be on 100mg of Levo up until about 14 yearsago (I was diagnosed 15 years ago) but then with nutritional therapy I was ableto cut down to 75mg and acupuncture helped me cut down to 50mg 10 years ago. Unfortunately these are very costly therapies too...Can I be frank? Reading the above worries me. Whilst nutrition and acupuncture are both extremely helpful in achieving wellbeing, the claim that it can achieve the need for thyroid hormone seems a little farfetched to me. Thyroid hormone is not something that we aim to decrease like you would aim to decrease the need for some drugs. Thyroid hormone is essential to life; without it we die. The correct amount of thyroid hormone is what a healthy thyroid gland would produce.

You say you take 50 mcg of Levothyroxine, which - as a dose for a hypothyroid person - is no more than a drop in the ocean. Most healthy people could take that amount in addition to their normal thyroid function without even becoming hyper. So something does not add up and in view of this it is even more important to find out which type of Hypothyroidism you suffer from (get the AA's checked).

For the thyroid gland to either become destroyed by AA's or to atrophy due to other causes takes many years, but all the time the thyroid hormone output will become less and less. The decline can be so gradual that often the patient is not even aware of it.

I question that your medication is at the correct level, Anita, although this is a bold statement to make without seeing the figures of a full TFT. I question it, because it is highly unlikely that a hypothyroid patient on 15 years of medication can be optimally medicated with 50 mcg of Levo. It is more likely that the Levo is no longer working for you and you had to reduce the dose because of it. This is a very common occurrence, and I will attach a list of everything that might be the cause for that at the end.

Can my GP refuse me the blood tests for ferritin, calcium, zinc and copper? Ifso, any advise please as to where I can get these checked?Yes, he can refuse if in his clinical judgement the tests are unnecessary... but

you could write to your practice manager and give reasons and references why in your opinion those tests are necessary (see below)... it usually does the trick, as it is easier for them to give in than to fight. Your doctor has a duty to care, and if later it became apparent that he has neglected this duty, it doesn't look good. Thank you for the info re: Lufenuron, I haven't heard of it before but heard alot about Dr Myhill and I think very highly of her. I had a look on the websiteand will order it just something is wrong with my PayPal account. I would doanything to get rid of the candida! I don't know how to gage how bad it is, butfrom my symptoms, it's been worse but it's been much better too...Well, for both our sakes and all other Candida sufferers I hope that this Lufenuron will do what Vaughter claims it to do. I have been a bit lax about sugar myself for the past few weeks and I can feel the beast making a comeback. Can't wait for the order to arrive....

If you wanted to know how "bad" your Candida is, do a salivary Candida test with Genova. It's the easiest and only way I know how to establish the degree of the infection.

Thank you for all the info re: Erfa! I will definitely get some once I know myferritin level is OK (if it is low, I will take some Floradix unless anyone canrecommend anything better?)Somebody else might come up with suggestions, I never had to take iron... but don't do anything until you know your level. Iron in excess is toxic.

I don't know what other supplements are 'safe to cut out', I'm so scared ofbeing a vegetable again!! I think the Selenium, D3 drops, Nutri Thyroid, NAX,folate and B12, 5HTP, Omega 3,6,9 and probiotics are needed, and so is the Vit Cand CoQ10, and then the iron if my ferritin is too low.

I agree with all of the above, except I am unsure about the 5HTP....I don't know exactly what it does, but I have a feeling it messes with the central nervous system and may mask rather than help. Do ask Dr Peatfield about this too.

The Ca, Mg, Zn and Cuare debatable, to be honest I started the Ca and Mg because I'm lactoseintolerant and had to think about my Ca and Mg intake since I can't get it frommilk and I thought I needed to supplement it??The Magnesium you probably need, but the Calcium I would ditch in favour of D3. You need to check your level of D3, but during the winter month it would be safe to take at least 1000 iu per day of D3, more if you were deficient. My own levels were low, so I take 4000 iu in the winter and 2000 iu in the summer. Vit D3 is transient, it has a half life of 60 days, so you need to keep it topped up.

I hope all this helps a little.

With best wishes,

In case you have not already seen the information below, I am posting it again so you can check through all of this by way of a process of elimination in case you might have any of these associated conditions.

There are MANY reasons and many medical conditions associated with thyroid disease that stop thyroid hormone from getting into the cells, where it does its work. I mention these over and over and over again - ad nauseum - people must be bored with the same old, same old but as each new member joins us, they need to know. The main condition responsible for stopping thyroid hormone from working, is, quite simply, a patients thyroxine dose is too low because the doctor or consultant refuses to increase it, because the serum thyroid function test results appear OK. Sometimes, the thyroxine dose is too high, yet patients still don't feel well. They continue to suffer. Some reasons for this:

They may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production of T4, its conversion to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount of adrenal hormones, notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut production down, however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not responding properly, and provision of cortisone usually switches it on again. But sometimes it doesn't. If the illness has been going on for a long time, the enzyme seems to fail. This conversion failure (inexplicably denied by many endocrinologists) means the thyroxine builds up, unconverted. So it doesn't work, and T4 toxicosis results. This makes the patient feel quite unwell, toxic, often with palpitations and chest pain. If provision of adrenal support doesn't remedy the situation, the final solution is the use of the active thyroid hormone, already converted, T3 - either synthetic or natural

Then, we have systemic candidiasis. This is where candida albicans, a yeast, which causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body, invades the lining of the lower part of the small intestine and the large intestine. Here, the candida sets up residence in the warmth and the dark, and demands to be fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make you suffer terrible sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can cause very many symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which interfere with the uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the levels - which we usually test for - can be very high, and make successful treatment difficult to achieve until adequately treated.

Then there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being hypothyroid for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms which permit the binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3 won't go in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support and adequate vitamins and minerals, the receptors do come on line again. But this can be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the dose up gradually.

And then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy is allergy to gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by the body, by a process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme, (which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So allergy to bread can make you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies with this kind of effect, but information on these is scanty. Certainly allergic response to certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil thyroid production and uptake.

Then we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine system is linked; each part of it needs the other parts to be operating normally to work properly. An example of this we have seen already, with cortisone. But another example is the operation of sex hormones. The imbalance that occurs at the menopause with progesterone running down, and a relative dominance of oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen dominance downgrades production, transportation and uptake of thyroid hormones. This is why hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause; the symptoms ascribed to this alone, which is then treated – often with extra oestrogen, making the whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone most especially needs to be dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance, improves many menopausal symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses osteoporosis. Happily natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when used it has the added benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.

Then, we must never forget the possibility of mercury poisoning (through amalgam fillings) - low levels of ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc - all of which, if low, stop the thyroid hormone from being utilised by the cells - these have to be treated. Should your GP or endocrinologist try to tell you that there is no association between low levels of these specific minerals and vitamins and low thyroid status, print off the information at the bottom of this message to show him just some of the references to research/studies to show that there is.***

As Dr Peatfield says "When you have been quite unwell for a long time, all these problems have to be dealt with; and since each may affect the other, it all has to be done rather carefully.

Contrary to cherished beliefs by much of the medical establishment, the correction of a thyroid deficiency state has a number of complexities and variables, which make the treatment usually quite specific for each person. The balancing of these variables is as much up to you as to me – which is why a check of morning, day and evening temperatures and pulse rates, together with symptoms, good and bad, can be so helpful.

Many of you have been ill for a long time, either because you have not been diagnosed, or the treatment leaves you still quite unwell. Those of you who have relatively mild hypothyroidism, and have been diagnosed relatively quickly, may well respond to synthetic thyroxine, the standard treatment. I am therefore unlikely to see you; since if the thyroxine proves satisfactory in use, it is merely a question of dosage.

For many of you, the outstanding problem is not that the diagnosis has not been made – although, extraordinarily, this is disgracefully common – but that is has, and the thyroxine treatment doesn't work. The dose has been altered up and down, and clinical improvement is variable and doesn't last, in spite of blood tests, which say you are perfectly all right (and therefore you are actually depressed and need this fine antidepressant).

The above problems must be eliminated if thyroid hormone isn't working for you.

Should your GP or endocrinologist tell you that there is no connection between these minerals or vitamin levels and hypothyroidism, then copy the following links out to show him/her

Good luck!

***Low iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3 conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (1-4). Thus, iron deficiency, as indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present (1-4)).

1. Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al. Hypothermia in iron deficiency due to altered triiodithyroidine metabolism. Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2. SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In vitro hepatic thyroid hormone deiodination in iron-deficient rats: effect of dietary fat. Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.

3. Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron and Selenium Deficiencies on Iodine and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and Relevance to Public Health. Thyroid 2002;12(10): 867-78.

4. Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for Thyroid Hormone Deficiency in Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr. 1989;119:772-778.

Low vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329 and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738 and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low copper http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.rjpbcs.com/pdf/2011_2(2)/68.pdf

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/171/3/652.extract

Low zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

Ferritin levels for women need to be between 100 and 130 for women (for men around between 150 and 170)

Vitamin B12 needs to be at the top of the range.

D3 levels need to be top of the range.

Magnesium levels need to be at the top of the range, it's one thing that often gets missed.

[Guest guest]

Correction - missed out a word....

.....claim that it can achieve the need for thyroid hormone reduction seems a little farfetched to me....

[Guest guest]

For what it is worth, I saw Dr. P a year ago and was put on 4 Nutri Thyroid

(amongst other things) and I was taking 125mcg levo, he reduced that down to

100mcg. I am still, a year later taking 4 nutri thyroid and am now on week 3 of

taking T3 (25mcg) and reducing T4 (50mcg daily now). Dr. P said to continue

taking all the supplements etc I am taking, which includes the 4 NT.

Sue

>

>

> Hello Anita,

>

> I am taking 5 Nutri Thyroids because that's what Dr P told me to take.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you so much for all the information, I'm trying to take it all in.

I have formulated the following plan: I am going to see my GP to ask for a

blood test - already made an appointment, I got one for tomorrow morning.

I am going to ask him to check the usual T4, FT3, THS and the following:

TPO, TgAB, Ferritin, Ca, Mg, Zn, Cu, Vit D3, Folate and B12.

Once I have the results I will post them here for advice.

I will get in touch with Dr P and ask him about dosage re: Nurti Thyroid and the

rest. And I will probably try ERFA or natural thyroid extract. I will take the

Candida med - I managed to order it now and can't wait for it to arrive!

Re: Zn and Cu, if you take Zn, you need to take Cu too as Zn washes Cu out of

the body causing Cu deficiency. That's why I was taking Zn and Cu together and

the reason for taking Zn is because that supports a compromised immune system

and the Zn requirements of the body increase if the immune system is down. It

helped so far a great deal to reduce the number of viral infections I used to

have (alongside with Vit C).

Re: Nutritional therapy and Acupuncture, neither of them claimed to help with my

Thyroid but I asked the therapists to focus on strengthening my thyroid. I felt

better and with my then GP's help reduced the Levo in a controlled way: We went

down from 100mcg to 75 and 6 weeks later they did a blood test. My result were

OK (in hindsight they might not have checked FT3...) and then I tried to go down

to 50 but my symproms returned, so I went back to 75mcg.

With the acu my energy levels went back to how they used to be (I was really

tired all the time at this point) and my other symptoms decreased, so - again -

I did it 'properly'. At the time I knew nothing about FT3 and all these things,

adrenal, supplements etc. But for years and years I was good and symptom-free.

It all went bad after prolonged (2 years) extreme emotional stress, and I have

been struggling since.

5HTP is hydroxitriptophan and it helps with the serotonin production. That and

D3 really helped with my mood, it is making a massive difference for me so I am

planning to continue taking it. I do take 2-3000 iu of D3 as there isn't much

sun here, and it is great.

Re: ERFA, I thought that is the only natural porcine thyroid extract that is

available? I thought my choices were T3 or ERFA? I am happy to take whichever

brand, I just want to get better...

Thank you so much for all your help and for any advise, there is so much to

learn and it can be so overwhelming, as I'm sure you found it first too.

Have a very happy New Year!

Best Wishes,

Anita

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you so much for all the info!

I don't really know the difference between ERFA and other NTs? I didn't even

know there were other kinds of NTs like the one you get from Thailand.

I don't know what's the best thing to take but going to my GP tomorrow to get

blood tests for T4, FT3, THS, TPO, TgAB, Ferritin, Ca, Mg, Zn, Cu, Vit D3,

Folate and B12. I'll post the results here and see what I should do

afterwards...

It's all terribly overwhelming and confusing at times, I hope as I learn more I

will understand it all better.

Thank you for all your help!

Best Wishes,

Anita xx

>

> Hi Anita,

>

> The cost of NT? Well I don't know about Erfa, but I use either the one from

thailand, which is around £80 for a thousand tablets of 1 grain, or I use

nature throid which is just under £18 for 100 tablets of 1 grain.

>

> T3 is around £60 for 300 x 25 mcg tablets..... Details are in the files

under pharmacies...... Any particular reason why you wanted Erfa?

>

[Guest guest]

Idon't know what's the best thing to take but going to my GP tomorrow to get blood tests for T4, FT3, THS, TPO, TgAB, Ferritin, Ca, Mg, Zn, Cu, Vit D3,Folate and B12. I'll post the results here and see what I should do afterwards...

Hi Anita – good luck tomorrow . Just to give you a little more ammunition, I have `fished out' the important bits from some rather lengthy articles on WHY certain minerals and vitamins are important to be checked in hypothyroid patients... no doubt your doctor will tell you that none (or only a few) of those tests are really necessary. Learn the "arguments" (below) by heart, and if necessary provide your doctor with the various links so he can check it out for himself. I once spent 20 minutes "fighting" with a doctor over ordering a full iron status. He did it under duress in the end, but only because I was like a dog with a bone and not making any attempt to leave the room - and there were other patients waiting. – Don't expect plain sailing when asking for those tests.

If you expect blood to be taken there and then, remember not to take your thyroid meds in the morning. Take them after the blood draw.

Best of British

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

VIT B 12 Conclusions:

There is a high (approx 40%) prevalence of B12 deficiency in hypothyroid patients. Traditional symptoms are not a good guide to determining presence of B12 deficiency. Screening for vitamin B12 levels should be undertaken in all hypothyroid patients, irrespective of their thyroid antibody status. Replacement of B12 leads to improvement in symptoms....

http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Vit D3 Conclusion:

Vitamin D appears to have many effects besides being related to calcium and bone health. Some patients with low vitamin D levels have fatigue and bone pain, which is easily reversible with proper replacement of vitamin D. Vitamin D may protect against heart disease and some types of cancer. Vitamin D may also have some role in regulating the immune system and also reducing blood sugar levels in patients with diabetes. Proper vitamin D levels are needed to prevent osteoporosis. In conclusion, proper vitamin D levels are essential for one's health, especially if you have thyroid problems. Unless a patient is exposed to sunlight or foods containing vitamin D, screening for Vitamin D deficiency is recommended for all thyroid patients.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

MAGNESIUM:

.....Over-all balances of sodium, potassium, calcium, phosphorus, and nitrogen during therapy were generally positive in hyperthyroid and negative in hypothyroid patients. Magnesium balance was invariably positive in hyperthyroidism and, with one exception, negative in hypothyroidism. The data suggest that a defect in magnesium transport occurs in thyroid hormone deficiency states.

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

COPPER:

The glandular system, particularly the thyroid and adrenal glands

The thyroid gland is extremely sensitive to copper. In part this is due to its nature and how easily it is influenced by the sympathetic nervous system. Common conditions seen with copper imbalance include hypothyroidism and even hyperthyroidism of a particular type that is very common that I call secondary hyperthyroidism…… Most often, the problem goes away with a properly designed nutritional balancing program. Reducing all stress and balancing the body chemistry are both required to resolve the condition naturally in my experience. Drugs may be needed temporarily to control the symptoms….

Iron:

A large body of thyroid patients is surprised to discover that being hypothyroid also results in having low Ferritin, or storage iron. Ferritin is an iron storage protein which keeps the iron in a dissolvable state and also makes the iron nontoxic to cells around it. So when Ferritin is measured via a blood test, it is basically measuring your storage iron, or the iron you have tucked away for future use. You can have iron serum levels that are within the 'normal' reference interval, yet this can be a low level of Ferritin. Why do we often have low Ferritin? Because being hypothyroid can result in a lowered production of hydrochloric acid (stomach acid), which in turn leads to the malabsorption of iron. It can also lower your body temperature (common for those on levothyroxine, as well), which causes you to make less red blood cells.Additionally, being hypothyroid can result in heavier periods, which causes even more iron loss. In turn, having low iron levels decreases deiodinase activity, i.e. it slowsdown the conversion of inactive thyroid hormone T4 to the active thyroid hormoneT3 Why is having low Ferritin a problem?

First, though the slide into low Ferritin can be symptomless, it eventually becomes the precursor to being aneamic. And once the latter occurs, you can then have symptoms which mimic hypothyroidism, depression, achiness, easy fatigue, weakness, faster heart rate, palpitations, loss of sex drive, and/or foggy thinking, etc, causing a patient to think they are not on enough desiccated thyroid, or that desiccated thyroid is not working.

Excessively low Ferritin can also make it difficult to continue raising your thyroid extract, resulting in hyper symptoms when raising the thyroid extract. Biologically, insufficient iron levels may be affecting the first two of three steps of thyroid hormone synthesis by reducing the activity of the enzyme thyroid peroxidase, which is dependent on iron. Thyroid peroxidase (TPO) brings about the chemical reactions of adding iodine to tyrosine (amino acid), which then produces T4 and T3. Insufficient iron levels, which low ferritin reveals, alters and reduces the conversion of T4 to T3, besides binding T3.

Additionally, low iron levels can increases circulating concentrations of TSH(thyroid stimulating hormone). Iron, in addition to iodine, selenium and zinc, are essential for normal thyroid hormone metabolism.

[Guest guest]

Hi Anita

If you go to our Files section of this forum which you can

either access from the Home Page in the Menu, or from here thyroid treatment/files/

- scroll down to the FOLDER entitled 'Internet Pharmacies' and you can see the

different forms of natural thyroid extract that you can buy without the need

for a doctors prescription. All these pharmacies are reputable. There is little

difference between the different brands or generics apart from the fillers, but

with some companies, you have to pay VAT at Customs and another £8.00 on top

for the Royal Mail Handling Fees if the package is passed on to them. VAT is

only charged on random packages that are over £15.

Hope your appointment goes well today and that your GP is happy

to do all the tests that you need. Don't worry about becoming overwhelmed by

all the information. We recommend you take one small step at a time, and if you

have any questions to ask, don't worry about that either, because there is

always somebody who will be happy to come along and help you.

Luv - Sheila

I don't really know the difference between ERFA and other NTs? I didn't even

know there were other kinds of NTs like the one you get from Thailand.

I don't know what's the best thing to take but going to my GP tomorrow to get

blood tests for T4, FT3, THS, TPO, TgAB, Ferritin, Ca, Mg, Zn, Cu, Vit D3,

Folate and B12. I'll post the results here and see what I should do

afterwards...

It's all terribly overwhelming and confusing at times, I hope as I learn more I

will understand it all better.

,_._,___

[Guest guest]

Hi Anita

There is a massive difference between T3 and Erfa. T3 is the

active thyroid hormone that makes every cell in your brain and body function.

Erfa 'Thyroid' is another brand name for natural desiccated porcine thyroid

extract (NDT). NDT contains all the thyroid hormones, i.e. thyroxine (T4),

triiodothyronine (T3), T2, T1 plus calcitonin. As stated in my previous message,

there are different brands of NDT i.e. Armour Thyroid, Erfa 'Thyroid', Nature

Throid and Westhroid and then there are generic thyroid extracts, e.g.

Thyroid-s, Thiroyd etc.

Luv - Sheila

Re: ERFA, I thought that is the only natural porcine thyroid extract that is

available? I thought my choices were T3 or ERFA? I am happy to take whichever

brand, I just want to get better...

_,_._,___