Re: New Intro - Hello everyone!!

[Guest guest]

Hello Charlotte and welcome to the forum. It's a bit slow on here at the

moment due to the christmas break, but stick with it and more people will look

in over the coming week....

It's worth you having a look through the files, where there is a wealth of

information.... they are on the left hand side of the home page of the forum...

here: thyroid treatment/files/

Your test results for free t3 and free t4 certaily look low, but it's rather

difficult to comment without knowing the reference ranges. Usually in the uk

the free t4 range is somewhere between 10 and 22 and free t3 is between 3.5 and

6.5......

Lots of things can influence thryoid uptake and conversion of t4 to t3 ... it

can be simply that you are allergic to the thyroxine they are giving you, you

may need selenium to help you convert t4 into t3, you could have low iron

levels, and so on....

I would have thought at least a trial of t3 should have been considered by

now.... look in the files for the pulse article which is an interview with

endocrinologist A Toft..... It does suggest trialing T3 and your doctor should

take note as it appeared in a do ctors magazine..... (we live in hope!)

You aren't imagining this, thyroxine is acknowleged to work well in only 86% of

people... the remaining 14% have to find alternative treatments....... of

these 14%, some have a genetic problem which stops them converting T4 into

T3........

It's a lot to take in and a massive learning curve.... but ask as many

questions as you like...... we'll all try and pitch in....

x

>

> Hello, My name is Charlotte, has been raised to 400mcg per day and yet I

still feel extremely tired, im 2 stone overweight, I cant exercise (which i love

and have done all my life) or do a full days work, and considering im a

self-employed painter and decorator, my whole life has turned upside down.

[Guest guest]

Hi Charlotte,I cannot believe they are trying to say you're okay when they have removed your thyroid! A work colleague of mine had hers removed and they put her straight on 150mcg of thyroxine - I'm not sure why they only put you on 100mcg. If you are taking 400mcg and still not feeling better it sounds like you need to try something else such as T3 or Erfa/Natural Dessicated Thyroid to see if that improves things. I would ask the Endo if you can try T3 (they will probably say no but if you don't ask you'll never know and there are Endo's out there that will!) - a combination of levo and T3 can work really well and is worth trying that to see if it helps you.You are quite right to feel angry and frustrated, we've all been there and many of us still are! By the way do you know the reference ranges for your T3 and T4 results - they seem quite low if you have the same reference ranges as in my area.Good luck and you will certainly get a lot of advice, help and support here!Dawn M From: "charlotteelsmore@..." <charlotteelsmore@...> thyroid treatment Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2011, 18:12 Subject: New Intro - Hello everyone!!

Hello, My name is Charlotte, Im 40 yrs old and was diagnosed with a multinodular Goiter in Nov 2009 purely by accident. I went to hospital with Acute Tonsilitis and the Dr noticed another

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Hello Charlotte and welcome,

Before I forget to mention it – please in future always add the respective ref ranges to any blood results. Ref ranges vary from lab to lab and without knowing the ranges it is difficult to comment.

However – even without ranges it is plain to see that your thyroid results are extremely low all round....

T3 - 1.69T4 - 11.94TSH - 0.029

What is (probably) happening in your case is that your body – for whatever reason (more to that below) – is not utilizing the thyroid hormone you are taking. 400 mcg Levo is a substantial dosage, and your doctor is making a cardinal mistake recommending this dosage without regard for your clinical symptoms. `A lot' does not `help a lot' here.... it does the opposite – it makes you thyrotoxic.

When a body receives more thyroid hormone than it can handle, the metabolism speeds up in order to rid itself as quickly as possible from the excessive hormone. In addition the body puts the brakes on and converts excess T4 into more rT3 (reverse T3) than usual, and rT3 will prevent FT3 (free T3) from getting inside the cells. The result is a double whammy - a mix of thyrotoxicosis (hyper) and hypothyroidism. – in other words.... what goes in one end comes out the other un-utilized and without having much effect other than making you ill.

In March 2010 I had my Thyroid gland removed and was put on 100mcg Levothyroxine per day...

Could you clarify please.... has your entire thyroid gland been removed or just part of it?

Reading your story brought back strongly something I have not only read in Dr. Skinner's book "Diagnosis and Management of Hypothyroidism", but I found the same opinion expressed in other thyroid books by Dr. Broda and Dr. Mar Starr too... and I quote:

In my own (Dr. Skinner's) experience, patients who have had radio-ablation or thyroidectomy – particularly total thyroidectomy – are often not sortable by synthetic T4 or T3 and finally require the thyroid extract. This is presumably because thyroidectomy – as opposed to more sophisticated pathological process – loses all the thyroid hormones including the (as yet) putative unidentified hormones and thus eliminates their physiological contribution. I increasingly wonder if utilisation of whole gland extracts has been somewhat neglected by the quasi-scientific world which is dedicated to identification and synthesis of highly purified mono-component active principles. All perfectly laudable but we might have precipitously and previously forsaken the useful role of extracts of body tissues as therapeutic agents.....

There might be other reasons at play as to why Levothyroxine is not working for you, but I highly suspect it won't be working for you at all, whatever the dosage. However, you need to go through all the possibilities (will attach at the end) and make sure that none of those apply to you, or, if they do, you need to rectify what's wrong, or NO amount or kind of thyroid hormone will work. But generally speaking, in my opinion you would do better on one of the natural desiccated thyroids, be it Armour, Erfa, Naturethroid, Thiroyd or Thyroid S rather than Levothyroxine.

Please read through the below (by Dr. Peatfield) and take on board (and get checked out) what may apply to you...

With best wishes,

In case you have not already seen the information below, I am posting it again so you can check through all of this by way of a process of elimination in case you might have any of these associated conditions.

There are MANY reasons and many medical conditions associated with thyroid disease that stop thyroid hormone from getting into the cells, where it does its work. I mention these over and over and over again - ad nauseum - people must be bored with the same old, same old but as each new member joins us, they need to know. The main condition responsible for stopping thyroid hormone from working, is, quite simply, a patients thyroxine dose is too low because the doctor or consultant refuses to increase it, because the serum thyroid function test results appear OK. Sometimes, the thyroxine dose is too high, yet patients still don't feel well. They continue to suffer. Some reasons for this:

They may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production of T4, its conversion to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount of adrenal hormones, notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut production down, however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not responding properly, and provision of cortisone usually switches it on again. But sometimes it doesn't. If the illness has been going on for a long time, the enzyme seems to fail. This conversion failure (inexplicably denied by many endocrinologists) means the thyroxine builds up, unconverted. So it doesn't work, and T4 toxicosis results. This makes the patient feel quite unwell, toxic, often with palpitations and chest pain. If provision of adrenal support doesn't remedy the situation, the final solution is the use of the active thyroid hormone, already converted, T3 - either synthetic or natural

Then, we have systemic candidiasis. This is where candida albicans, a yeast, which causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body, invades the lining of the lower part of the small intestine and the large intestine. Here, the candida sets up residence in the warmth and the dark, and demands to be fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make you suffer terrible sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can cause very many symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which interfere with the uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the levels - which we usually test for - can be very high, and make successful treatment difficult to achieve until adequately treated.

Then there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being hypothyroid for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms which permit the binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3 won't go in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support and adequate vitamins and minerals, the receptors do come on line again. But this can be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the dose up gradually.

And then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy is allergy to gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by the body, by a process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme, (which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So allergy to bread can make you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies with this kind of effect, but information on these is scanty. Certainly allergic response to certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil thyroid production and uptake.

Then we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine system is linked; each part of it needs the other parts to be operating normally to work properly. An example of this we have seen already, with cortisone. But another example is the operation of sex hormones. The imbalance that occurs at the menopause with progesterone running down, and a relative dominance of oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen dominance downgrades production, transportation and uptake of thyroid hormones. This is why hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause; the symptoms ascribed to this alone, which is then treated – often with extra oestrogen, making the whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone most especially needs to be dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance, improves many menopausal symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses osteoporosis. Happily natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when used it has the added benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.

Then, we must never forget the possibility of mercury poisoning (through amalgam fillings) - low levels of ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc - all of which, if low, stop the thyroid hormone from being utilised by the cells - these have to be treated. Should your GP or endocrinologist try to tell you that there is no association between low levels of these specific minerals and vitamins and low thyroid status, print off the information at the bottom of this message to show him just some of the references to research/studies to show that there is.***

As Dr Peatfield says "When you have been quite unwell for a long time, all these problems have to be dealt with; and since each may affect the other, it all has to be done rather carefully.

Contrary to cherished beliefs by much of the medical establishment, the correction of a thyroid deficiency state has a number of complexities and variables, which make the treatment usually quite specific for each person. The balancing of these variables is as much up to you as to me – which is why a check of morning, day and evening temperatures and pulse rates, together with symptoms, good and bad, can be so helpful.

Many of you have been ill for a long time, either because you have not been diagnosed, or the treatment leaves you still quite unwell. Those of you who have relatively mild hypothyroidism, and have been diagnosed relatively quickly, may well respond to synthetic thyroxine, the standard treatment. I am therefore unlikely to see you; since if the thyroxine proves satisfactory in use, it is merely a question of dosage.

For many of you, the outstanding problem is not that the diagnosis has not been made – although, extraordinarily, this is disgracefully common – but that is has, and the thyroxine treatment doesn't work. The dose has been altered up and down, and clinical improvement is variable and doesn't last, in spite of blood tests, which say you are perfectly all right (and therefore you are actually depressed and need this fine antidepressant).

The above problems must be eliminated if thyroid hormone isn't working for you.

Should your GP or endocrinologist tell you that there is no connection between these minerals or vitamin levels and hypothyroidism, then copy the following links out to show him/her

Good luck!

***Low iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3 conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (1-4). Thus, iron deficiency, as indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present (1-4)).

1. Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al. Hypothermia in iron deficiency due to altered triiodithyroidine metabolism. Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2. SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In vitro hepatic thyroid hormone deiodination in iron-deficient rats: effect of dietary fat. Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.

3. Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron and Selenium Deficiencies on Iodine and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and Relevance to Public Health. Thyroid 2002;12(10): 867-78.

4. Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for Thyroid Hormone Deficiency in Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr. 1989;119:772-778.

Low vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329 and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738 and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low copper http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.rjpbcs.com/pdf/2011_2(2)/68.pdf

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/171/3/652.extract

Low

zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

Ferritin levels for women need to be between 100 and 130 for women (for men around between 150 and 170)

Vitamin B12 needs to be at the top of the range.

D3 levels need to be top of the range.

Magnesium levels need to be at the top of the range, it's one thing that often gets missed.

[Guest guest]

Hi Charlotte, your T4 and T3 look a bit to low, why i can`t say, as your gland has been removed it may well mean that something is blocking the cells from using the medicine. you could have adrenal problems or maybe you are not converting the T4 to T3 and you may well need T3 only or a naturalmedicine like Armour or erfa which has all the hormones your gland would have been making T1,T2,T3, T4.look in our files about things that stop the the medicine working. angel.

[Guest guest]

>

> Your test results for free t3 and free t4 certaily look low, but it's rather

difficult to comment without knowing the reference ranges. Usually in the uk

the free t4 range is somewhere between 10 and 22 and free t3 is between 3.5 and

6.5......

Hi , thank you for your reply and your thoughts, I'm now looking through

the forum history and finding some very interesting stuff, ive got a lot to

learn. Sorry I didnt add the blood references. I actually had my bloods taken in

Greece, I work out there for 3 months of the year. Im back home in the UK now.

The ranges are slightly different from the UK ones.

My results again with references:

T3 = 1.69 (0.58 to 1.59)

T4 = 11.94 (4.87 to 11.72)

TSH = 0.029 (0.490 to 4.670)

Many Thanks

Charlotte

Forest of Dean

Gloucestershire

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn, Thank you for your reply and advice, its something im seriously looking

into. Ive learnt a lot in the last couple of days already, thanks to this site,

so Im a little more confident about seeing my Endo now, at least I wont be

easily fobbed off, like ive been with my Drs up until now. My blood results and

refs are as follows:

T3 - 1.69 (0.58 to 1.59)

T4 - 11.94 (4.87 to 11.72)

TSH - 0.029 (0.490 to 4.670)

This test was taken in Greece where I work for 3 mths of the year. Im back in

the UK now.

Many Thanks

Charlotte

Forest of Dean

Gloucestershire

>

> Hi Charlotte,

>

> I cannot believe they are trying to say you're okay when they have removed

your thyroid! A work colleague of mine had hers removed and they put her

straight on 150mcg of thyroxine - I'm not sure why they only put you on 100mcg.

If you are taking 400mcg and still not feeling better it sounds like you need to

try something else such as T3 or Erfa/Natural Dessicated Thyroid to see if that

improves things. 

[Guest guest]

Hello , Thankyou, Thankyou, Thankyou for all your help, its certainly

given me food for thought. I must admit, when I had my Op (my entire thyroid

gland was removed), I thought it was just a case of taking my medication each

day and my life would carry on as normal...fat chance of that!! Im now

determined to find out whats going wrong.

Ive taken a look at some of the associated conditions you mentioned and its

really got me thinking. Two of the conditions stood out straight away. Firstly,

I have a number of symptoms for Candida, Ive looked at a few websites regarding

the condition and many of the symptoms listed are similar to what i have. Im

thinking about going to an Allergy specialist to confirm if i do have any

allergies. Secondly, I do have 4 Amalgam fillings which ive had for about 15

years, coincidently, I recently saw a dentist in Greece (cheaper treatment over

there) who suggested I have them replaced with white synthetic ones, this i plan

to do when i return to Greece in April.

My results plus reference ranges are:

T3 = 1.69 (0.58 to 1.59)

T4 = 11.94 (4.87 to 11.72)

TSH = 0.029 (0.490 to 4.670)

This blood test was taken in Greece, so I know that references do differ between

countries. I am now in the UK awaiting my appointment with the Endo. They've

have given me an appoint for March 2nd but im trying to get a cancellation.

Thank you for all the book references, youve bee more than helpful, thank you so

much.

Kind Regards

Charlotte

Forest of Dean

Gloucestershire

> There might be other reasons at play as to why Levothyroxine is not

> working for you, but I highly suspect it won't be working for you at

> all, whatever the dosage. However, you need to go through all the

> possibilities (will attach at the end) and make sure that none of those

> apply to you, or, if they do, you need to rectify what's wrong, or

> NO amount or kind of thyroid hormone will work. But generally speaking,

> in my opinion you would do better on one of the natural desiccated

> thyroids, be it Armour, Erfa, Naturethroid, Thiroyd or Thyroid S rather

> than Levothyroxine.

> Please read through the below (by Dr. Peatfield) and take on board (and get

checked out) what may apply to you...

>

> With best wishes,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Charlotte,

Please let me first correct my previous statement of saying that your results look very low.... I did not know that you had the test done in Greece, and it seems that the ref ranges there are very different from those in the UK.

T3 = 1.69 (0.58 to 1.59)T4 = 11.94 (4.87 to 11.72)TSH = 0.029 (0.490 to 4.670).... so –on seeing the ref ranges your result don't look low, they look high – BUT... it makes no difference what they appear to be, because the Levo is not working for you one way or another. The thyroid hormone is just coursing around in your veins and it has made you thyrotoxic. The excessive T4 is very likely busily making rT3, which in turn is preventing FT3 from getting absorbed into the cells ...so although your results look high on paper, those figures do not reflect your true thyroid status inside the cells. You are still very much hypothyroid despite high-normal looking results. I assume that your liver is working overtime, trying to rid the body of all the unusable thyroid hormone. I really can't imagine that you will be getting anywhere with Levothyroxine, and it might be an idea to consider switching to a natural desiccated thyroid of your choice. You can buy it without prescription on the internet if you so wish – or you could try to persuade your doctor to prescribe it.... chances of that are not very high, but it happens occasionally. Whatever you do, it has to be your decision. Read all you can from our files and recommended books by Drs. Peatfield, Skinner, Broda , Mark Starr etc. I would start with Dr Peatfield's "Your thyroid and how to keep it healthy"... this book is excellent and will give you the base on which to build knowledge.

Re Candida.... all you need to do is order a salivary Candida test kit from Genova.

YGENOVA DIAGNOSTICS DISCOUNTS ON TESTING

Genova Diagnostics have been kind enough to arrange a discount for members of Thyroid Patient Advocacy- UK for the following Thyroid and Adrenal Tests:

In order to receive your discount, please DO NOT order direct from their web site. Instead, order direct from kitorders@... or telephone 020 8336 7754

When you complete your order, please remember to quote `Thyroid Patient Advocacy UK as `PRACTITIONER', or you will not be given the discount.

Please be assured that Genova will send your results direct to you and not to TPA as we have a special arrangement with them.

DISCOUNTS ON THE FOLLOWING TESTS

Test RRP Members Price

Thyroid Screen £99.00 £74.25

Thyroid Hormones - T3 & T4 £104.00 £88.40

Adrenal Stress Profile £75.00 £64.29

Candida Antibody Profile £73.00 £62.57

Reverse T3 £62.00 £51.57

The results will be send straight to you by email and/or snail mail and they are pretty self explanatory- but we are all here to help with the interpretation.

As for having amalgam fillings removed...Yes, it's a good idea, but you need to be extremely careful. It is not a straight forward job. I am sure they have good dentists in Greece, but you need to find one that specializes in removing amalgam fillings. Amalgam is 50% mercury, and mercury is one of the most poisonous heavy metals there is. The vapours are particularly poisonous when breathed in. Vapours are created with each brushing or grinding of teeth.... imagine what a high speed dental drill will do... well, don't imagine it – take a look.

So when those fillings are removed, the dentist needs special equipment and the knowledge how best to go about it. I would most certainly not let someone without that special training and equipment anywhere near my teeth. Without adequate protection the amount of poison you are going to breathe in or swallow might be worse than leaving the fillings in. I had mine removed by a holistic dentist who was trained by the late Dr. Jack Levenson, the founder of the British Society for Mercury Free Dentists..... so choose your dentist with great care. Removing amalgam fillings can be a very costly affair, but it can be even more costly for your health in the long run if it's done wrong.

Another consideration... amalgam fillings are a lot harder than the actual tooth. So when the filling gets drilled out, it is possible that the tooth will crumble and a cap might be the only solution... whilst the private replacement filling might (in the UK) cost between £ 80 and £ 150, a cap will cost between £ 600 and £ 900. A good dentist will assess all of this before starting any work and give you a realistic idea of what you have to expect. And last, but not least – are there any amalgam fillings lurking underneath caps? If so, those need to come out too... I had all of my fillings done when Dr. Peatfield diagnosed me hypothyroid – I had a mouthful of fillings and some under caps... it cost me a fortune, but I am glad I've had them out.

With best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi Charlotte

You have been through the mill! You must get your iron looked at, stored

ferritin needs to be quite high to feel well, so get a full blood count done at

the GP's and ask for a print out, it is yours to have by right. Whenever you go

to the GP you need to take in a pad and pen, for some reson it makes them see

you mean business. Make sure you tell him that you have no quality of life, use

these words as it makes them sit up. Look in the files on here and see causes of

thyroxine not working. It will be a surprise to you.

People who need large amounts of thyroxine are often not useing this succesfully

in the body. You might not be converting the thyroxine to make use of it.

We will get you sorted out on this web site, do not worry you are not going

mad!!

I know I thought I was before I joined here.

Lots of love Stephie.

PS. My daughter is 39 and diagnosed with a goitre this year by our dentist, she

has put stones on in weight!!

> should be considering how much Thyroxine im taking per day.

> Ive actually found this forum by accident, looking for some answers and you

cant believe how relieved I am to know that im not alone and not going mad!! Any

advice or information would be very welcome. Thank you in advance. Charlotte

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Thank you so much for the advice on Candida testing and Dentists regarding

Amalgam fillings, I shall definately check out the dentists procedures before

having my amalgam fillings removed in April.

Ive been to an Allergy Clinic and have been diagnosed with a slight fungal

infection and above all a Wheat allergy. The consultant seems to think that all

the hypo symptoms Im feeling are due to these two problems and not my

Levothyroxine.

A friend has given me some milk Kefir, so i am now making that and taking each

morning, hopefully that will remedy the fungal infection.

From today, I have started a Wheat and Suger Free diet. The consultant said, if

I dont feel fit and healthy within 8 weeks, he will refund my money, so I

thought I would give it a go. If it doesnt rid me of my hypo symptoms I can then

continue on my journey of finding the cause.

I would just like your opinion if you dont mind.

Thank you very much in advance

Charlotte

Forest of Dean

Gloucester

> Hello Charlotte,

>

> Please let me first correct my previous statement of saying that your

> results look very low.... I did not know that you had the test done in

> Greece, and it seems that the ref ranges there are very different from

> those in the UK.

>

> T3 = 1.69 (0.58 to 1.59)

> T4 = 11.94 (4.87 to 11.72)

> TSH = 0.029 (0.490 to 4.670)

> .... so –on seeing the ref ranges your result don't look low,

> they look high – BUT... it makes no difference what they appear to

> be, because the Levo is not working for you one way or another. The

> thyroid hormone is just coursing around in your veins and it has made

> you thyrotoxic. >

>

>

> Re Candida.... all you need to do is order a salivary Candida test kit

> from Genova.