Re: First post: Lots of questions:

[Guest guest]

My comments are below:

Buist, ND HC

Owner / Iodine Group

First post: Lots of questions:

I have chronic lyme related illness. Bartonella is probably the bug that is screwing with me though. I recently took 5 iodoral and got a detox reaction. I routinely used to take 1 tablet daily without noticeable effects. I want to know, how I should proceed, and have lots of questions:Question:Basically, I should start with say, one tablet a day, and slowly increase until I notice any detox symptoms. Then as am able to tolerate that dose fine, keep increasing the dose again. Is this correct?Please read the new member document for more information (found in the FILES of the group). Yes this is the approach that some take. There are no rules. Some jump right in at higher doses like 50 mgs (I did this) and have no issues until much higher doses.

Question:What things does iodine actually detox?Mercury, Lead, Fluoride, Chloride, Bromide It also increases the metabolic rate so that more toxins in general are released.

Question:How high of a dose should I go to? I hear of 300mg for example being used to treat cancer.200-300 mgs / day have been the amounts cancer patients have used. Make sure that you get the supporting nutrients outlined in the new member document too.

Question:I have a bottle of lugol's 10% potassiumn iodide and 5% iodine. This is the "strong" strength. How many drops is equivalent to one 12.5 mg tablet of iodoral? I read two drops, but I am confused which strength of lugol's this applies to. 7% solution of Lugol's has 6.25 mgs / drop. I am not sure what you have. Maybe one of the more chemistry minded people will chime in. I use Iodoral.

Question:Can I comfortably take large doses of iodine eventually via lugol's iodine? I heard it upsets the stomach, but it is much much cheaper than iodoral.It is individual - some have no issues. Taking with food can avoid upset. Some have also added to a gel capsule and have had luck with that.

Question:I read that in the past, up to 3,000 mg of potassium iodide has been used to treat infection. Is this believable? For this reason, I also purchased SSKI. Is it safe and advisable to work up over time to such high doses of potassium iodide to try and kill the infections I have? I have tried at least a hundred other methods of killing these bugs.

Potassium iodide has not been shown to be as effective as the Lugol's formula. Higher doses can be taken becuase of its limited effects. To get true tissue saturation you will want Lugol's.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

How long do you have to take 200-300 mg of lugol's iodine if you have cancer?Micha

[Guest guest]

Hi Micha!I believe answered, as long as you still have the cancer. Each person’s recovery would vary, so you would want to take it until you achieve a cancerless state! Donna in IL From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of m michaSent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 2:30 AMiodine Subject: Re: First post: Lots of questions: How long do you have to take 200-300 mg of lugol's iodine if you have cancer?Micha

[Guest guest]

,

I had hoped to respond to some of your questions earlier, but it was taking me a

long time to compose my response and I got interrupted and didn't get a chance

to finish. The board will shut down at mid-night tonight for the Thanksgiving

weekend, so I just wanted you to know that I haven't forgotten about your

request for help.

>

> I have chronic lyme related illness. Bartonella is probably the bug that is

screwing with me though.

>

> I recently took 5 iodoral and got a detox reaction. I routinely used to take

1 tablet daily without noticeable effects. I want to know, how I should

proceed, and have lots of questions:

>

>

> Question:

> Basically, I should start with say, one tablet a day, and slowly increase

until I notice any detox symptoms. Then as am able to tolerate that dose fine,

keep increasing the dose again. Is this correct?

>

> Question:

> What things does iodine actually detox?

>

> Question:

> How high of a dose should I go to? I hear of 300mg for example being used to

treat cancer.

>

> Question:

> I have a bottle of lugol's 10% potassiumn iodide and 5% iodine. This is the

" strong " strength. How many drops is equivalent to one 12.5 mg tablet of

iodoral? I read two drops, but I am confused which strength of lugol's this

applies to.

>

> Question:

> Can I comfortably take large doses of iodine eventually via lugol's iodine? I

heard it upsets the stomach, but it is much much cheaper than iodoral.

>

> Question:

>

> I read that in the past, up to 3,000 mg of potassium iodide has been used to

treat infection. Is this believable? For this reason, I also purchased SSKI.

Is it safe and advisable to work up over time to such high doses of potassium

iodide to try and kill the infections I have? I have tried at least a hundred

other methods of killing these bugs.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

, has already given you lots of good answers as they pertain to Iodine Therapy in general. What I wanted to add is that Lyme patients might experience a different form of "detox" (beisdes bromide detox, that is) -- namely Lyme-related "die-off" symptoms (aka: Herxheimer reactions). I'm sure you're already familiar with that concept and experience.

Herx reactions are where Lyme patients differ from other ordinary members of this group, most of whom are dealing primarily with cancer and many of whom are dealing with various forms of hormonal imbalances, too. Thus, it can sometimes become a bit confusing trying to sort out all of the different "side-effect" symptoms. (I'm using the term "side-effects" rather loosely, for lack of any better descriptive term for it, to cover bromide detox as well as Herxheimer die-off symptoms.)

You might or might not be familiar with the pathophysiology of what accounts for Herxheimer symptoms though. Herxheimer symptoms are the result of the body's immune response (cytokine storm) following the die-off of spirochetes & /or other tick-borne coinfections, such as Bartonella. This is where we are in no-man's land though because no one knows if iodine will perhaps cause a lessening of the typical die-off symptoms which ordinary antibiotics are known to trigger.

If Dr. Derry's explanation about how iodine works fits this process, then it's conceivable that the Herx die-off symptoms might be milder because he explains that iodine is capable of denaturing proteins. This concept is explained in the first (or second?-forgot which) chapter of his book about iodine. http://www.amazon.com/Breast-Cancer-Iodine-Prevent-Survive/dp/1552128849/ref=sr_1_1?s=books & ie=UTF8 & qid=1322575326 & sr=1-1

I was hoping to be able to quote Derry's exact words, but I've loaned out my copy of the book, so you'll just have to trust my simplister version of it when I stated that it "denatures" these proteins. Actually, in the case of Bartonella, it would be lipo-proteins from the cell walls of the dead and dying BLOs (Bartonella-like organisms) instead of ordinary proteins.

That's why we can only guess about whether the Herx reaction for Baronella might be less intense when using iodine instead of antitiotics to kill it -- because if iodine denatures these proteins (and lipoproteins), then the body's immune response and its subsequent cytokine storm might not be exactly the same as it would to other un-denatured proteins.

Here's another thing about Bartonella. It exists in several different pleomorphic forms, as I'm sure you are probably already aware. It can be intra-erythrocytic, or it can ride along attached to the surface membranes of RBCs, or it can burst out of decayed RBCs into a gazillion little "elementary bodies" and float around in the bloodstream until each newly hatched BLO "seed" finds a new RBC that it can infect.

Therefore, if you have enough iodine flooding the blood stream at the time that any given RBC decays and erupts, spilling out its load of Bartonella elementary bodies, then supposedly these infecting "seeds" of Bart cannot infect any new RBCs, thereby gradually reducing the total infectious load of Bart organisms.

This is a long-winded way of saying that it's anybody's guess as to whether or not you'll experience Herxheimer die-off symptoms when using iodine for treating Bartonella.

Perhaps you'll have fewer symptoms if you build up to a high enough dosage of iodine -- just as fast as you can handle the bromide detox symptoms -- in order to insure that there is a sufficient amount of iodine in your bloodstream at all times to handle the replication cycle for Bartonella. In fact, this might explain why some folks claim that they do better to jump right in at 50 mg of Lugol's (or Iodoral) while others find that they must tip-toe up much more gradually on their dosage of iodine.

In other words, you are a volunteer guinea pig in a sample of one in this experiment. I searched the forum archives to try to find comments from other Bartonella patients, but I found only one from a couple of years ago and she didn't post very much so it's hard to know what her true experience was. Besides, Bart patients are often dealing with other tick-borne pathogens also (Borrelia, Babesia, perhaps even erhlichia, rickettsiae or anaplasma).

Assuming that you have already treated these other pathogens adequately and that Bart is your only remaining pathogen, then you'll just have to play it by ear and try to interpret your own unique set of "die-off" symptoms as best that you can.

Be prepared to lower your dosage of iodine if the higher dosage isn't working out for you. Keep a journal or a good set of notes of your symptoms and your dosage levels so that you'll be able to offer guidance to other Bartonella patients who might decide to follow along this path later.

PS - I apologize for the long delay in this response, but the forum was closed during the long Thanksgiving holiday weekend, so it was impossible for me to post any sooner -- and also it took me longer than expected to search the forum archives after I first started to compose my response for you. Your request for help was not being ignored, nor forgotten.

PPS - I don't know if this posted earlier or not because my computer locked up. Therefore, if this attempt results in a double post, then please forgive me.

>> My comments are below:> > > Buist, ND HC > Owner / Iodine Group> > > First post: Lots of questions:> > > > I have chronic lyme related illness. Bartonella is probably the bug that is screwing with me though. > > I recently took 5 iodoral and got a detox reaction. I routinely used to take 1 tablet daily without noticeable effects. I want to know, how I should proceed, and have lots of questions:> > Question:> Basically, I should start with say, one tablet a day, and slowly increase until I notice any detox symptoms. Then as am able to tolerate that dose fine, keep increasing the dose again. Is this correct?> Please read the new member document for more information (found in the FILES of the group). Yes this is the approach that some take. There are no rules. Some jump right in at higher doses like 50 mgs (I did this) and have no issues until much higher doses. > > > Question:> What things does iodine actually detox?> Mercury, Lead, Fluoride, Chloride, Bromide It also increases the metabolic rate so that more toxins in general are released.> > > Question:> How high of a dose should I go to? I hear of 300mg for example being used to treat cancer.> 200-300 mgs / day have been the amounts cancer patients have used. Make sure that you get the supporting nutrients outlined in the new member document too.> > > Question:> I have a bottle of lugol's 10% potassiumn iodide and 5% iodine. This is the "strong" strength. How many drops is equivalent to one 12.5 mg tablet of iodoral? I read two drops, but I am confused which strength of lugol's this applies to. > > 7% solution of Lugol's has 6.25 mgs / drop. I am not sure what you have. Maybe one of the more chemistry minded people will chime in. I use Iodoral.> > Question:> Can I comfortably take large doses of iodine eventually via lugol's iodine? I heard it upsets the stomach, but it is much much cheaper than iodoral.> > It is individual - some have no issues. Taking with food can avoid upset. Some have also added to a gel capsule and have had luck with that.> > Question:> > I read that in the past, up to 3,000 mg of potassium iodide has been used to treat infection. Is this believable? For this reason, I also purchased SSKI. Is it safe and advisable to work up over time to such high doses of potassium iodide to try and kill the infections I have? I have tried at least a hundred other methods of killing these bugs.> > > Potassium iodide has not been shown to be as effective as the Lugol's formula. Higher doses can be taken becuase of its limited effects. To get true tissue saturation you will want Lugol's. > > > Thanks,> >