despite best efforts, health getting worse - please help!!!

[Guest guest]

Hello friends,

I have reached the point where I feel I need to ask for guidance and help again.

Since the summer, I have been taking several measures to try and improve my

worsening health.

Since then, I have been taking:

NAX (now 5 a day)

Nutri Thyroid (3 a day)

Vitamin C (5 a day)

B12/Folate(1 a day)

Selenium (1 a day)

Magnesium (6 a day).

In addition, after being on Levo since 1975, I had been on 3 grains of Armour

since July 2008 and this June I switched to 3 grains of Naturethroid.

The problem is that since the summer, my health has worsened considerably in

that I have had recurring throat and chest infections, have been on different

courses of antibiotics and steroids. I have been really struggling to breathe

and having to use inhalers every day, which I hate. I have to sleep on 4 pillows

- otherwise I can't breathe and start to panic.

But the most serious problem is that the atrial fibrillation which was

discovered this spring has also worsened considerably. My heart is racing every

minute of the day and sometimes it feels like it is going to explode. I went for

an echocardiograph this week and the nurse said my heart rate was racing between

100 and 140 the whole time, even though I was just lying on a bed. She said that

if it had been any higher she would have had to call the cardiologist and have

me admitted. This scared the life out of me. I'm 39 and this shouldn't be

happening.

I've tried to address the things which seem to cause palpitations ie adrenal

fatigue, low iron.

As regards the iron, I've been on 200mg since August, had it retested a

fortnight ago, it was still low, pressurized the GP into increasing it and am

now on 400mg/day.

My weight is also still increasing, and the severe palpitations mean that I

can't do any exercise, even walking. I'm really missing my punch bag, and my

kettlebells.

So, the bottom line is that, after being on NDT for nearly 3 and a half years,

my health is massively worse and I have felt no benefit whatsoever.

About a month ago, I ordered Serenity natural progesterone cream to try and help

the many hormonal symptoms I have each month.

But, more importantly, I felt compelled to order some synthetic T3, just in case

I am in some way reacting badly to the T4 in the Naturethroid.

Why do I seem to be the only person on the planet who hasn't recovered using

NDT???

I'm finding the whole thing very very depressing and T3 seems to be my last

resort, which is even scarier. What if it doesn't work either?

Can anyone please advise me how I should go about introducing the T3 and

reducing the 2 grains of Naturethroid I'm currently taking?

Any other observations or suggestions would be gratefully received.

Oh, I nearly forgot, just to make matters worse, I've got my first endo appt

next week. Have heard he'll try to put me back on Levo. Should I beg him for

T3, or fight to stay on Naturethroid?? Haven't a clue. Please help!

[Guest guest]

Nicola,

I've neen at this whole malarky for years.... I'm ok with the thyroid meds (I

take t3 and NT) but have had terrible palpitations.... It seems to sort

itself out if I take magnesium and NO sugar at all. As soon as I eat sugar my

heart races and as this causes my blood pressure to drop, I end up feeling

dreadful. I don't have diabetes or problems with insulin as far as I know, but

the sugar thing is mad.

(The BP drops are not normal and I'm being investigated for a valve problem)

I've always had a sweet tooth, and they say you crave whatever is poison to

you.

How about gluten too.? Have you tried life without it?

>

> Hello friends,

>

> I have reached the point where I feel I need to ask for guidance and help

again.

> Since the summer, I have been taking several measures to try and improve my

worsening health.

>

>

[Guest guest]

If switching to Naturethroid is when you began to feel unwell, do you think

there is any connection?

A friend of mine had really bad problems breathing and kept thinking it was her

asthma, but it turned out to be a serious problem with her mitral valve and she

needed an operation. Are you sure you don't have a heart problem? Has the GP

checked this out properly? I wouldn't just depend on the nurse's judgement that

you didn't need to see a cardiologist. If you did have a heart problem then

taking T3 could make it worse, so it's as well to be fully informed before

making any decisions.

It certainly isn't the case that you are the only person on the planet who

hasn't recovered using NDT, but it may not be a thyroid-related problem.

Miriam

> I have been really struggling to breathe and having to use inhalers every day,

which I hate. I have to sleep on 4 pillows - otherwise I can't breathe and start

to panic.

> But the most serious problem is that the atrial fibrillation which was

discovered this spring has also worsened considerably. My heart is racing every

minute of the day and sometimes it feels like it is going to explode. I went for

an echocardiograph this week and the nurse said my heart rate was racing between

100 and 140 the whole time, even though I was just lying on a bed. She said that

if it had been any higher she would have had to call the cardiologist and have

me admitted. This scared the life out of me. I'm 39 and this shouldn't be

happening.

>

> But, more importantly, I felt compelled to order some synthetic T3, just in

case I am in some way reacting badly to the T4 in the Naturethroid.

> Why do I seem to be the only person on the planet who hasn't recovered using

NDT???

> Oh, I nearly forgot, just to make matters worse, I've got my first endo appt

next week. Have heard he'll try to put me back on Levo. Should I beg him for

T3, or fight to stay on Naturethroid?? Haven't a clue. Please help!

>

[Guest guest]

First Nicola, whatever you do, do not allow the endocrinologist

to take your natural thyroid extract away from you and put you back onto

levothyroxine. You went onto NDT because the mainly inactive levothyroxine

wasn't working for you, and to go back onto it again, it is still quite

unlikely it will work for you.

Your problems might be simply down to the fact that you might be

taking too much NDT at 3 grains daily. Have you tried cutting it back by half a

grain (30mgs) to see if that helps? If it does, then after 2 to 3 weeks of

being on 2.5 grains, increase your dose again by 30mgs (half a grain) and see

how you feel.

Another reason why things might not be working is that you may

need to add a little of T4 (say 25mcgs) or a little synthetic T3 to the mix

that is in your NDT. Basically, one size does not fit all of us and the

amount of T4 and T3 in NDT is standardised to USP specifications.

There could, of course, be other reasons why the thyroid hormone

might not be working that stop thyroid hormone from getting into the cells,

where it does its work. I mention these over and over and over again - ad

nauseum - people must be bored with the same old stuff, but as each new member

joins us, they need to know about these. Go through all of these one by one by

way of a process of elimination to see if you can find the culprit. Some of

these will be obvious that it is not that, but nevertheless, I will go through

each one of them individually.

The main condition responsible for stopping thyroid hormone from

working is, quite simply, a patient’s thyroxine dose is too low because

the doctor or consultant refuses to increase it, because the serum thyroid

function test results appear OK. Sometimes, the thyroxine dose is too high, yet

patients still don't feel well. They continue to suffer. Some reasons

for this:

They may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production

of T4, its conversion to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount

of adrenal hormones, notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut

production down, however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not

responding properly, and provision of cortisone usually switches it on

again. But sometimes it doesn’t. If the illness has been

going on for a long time, the enzyme seems to fail. This conversion

failure (inexplicably denied by many endocrinologists) means the thyroxine

builds up, unconverted. So it doesn’t work, and T4 toxicosis

results. This makes the patient feel quite unwell, toxic, often with

palpitations and chest pain. If provision of adrenal support doesn’t

remedy the situation, the final solution is the use of the active thyroid

hormone, already converted, T3 - either synthetic or natural. However, as you

are taking 3 grains of Nature Throid and 3 Nutri Adrenal Extra daily, perhaps

you should ask your GP to refer you for a short synacthen test to see whether

you might be suffering with a more serious adrenal problem, that might require

a short course of HC.

I note your recurring throat and chest infections and that you

have been on different course of antibiotics and steroid. This could have

led you to suffering with systemic candidiasis. This is where candida

albicans, yeast, which causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body, and invades

the lining of the lower part of the small intestine and the large

intestine. Here, the candida sets up residence in the warmth and the

dark, and demands to be fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make

you suffer terrible sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can

cause very many symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which

interfere with the uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the

levels - which we usually test for - can be very high, and make successful

treatment difficult to achieve until adequately treated.

Then there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being

hypothyroid for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms

which permit the binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3

won’t go in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support

and adequate vitamins and minerals, the receptors do come on line again.

But this can be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the

dose up gradually.

And then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy

is allergy to gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by

the body, by a process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the

thyroperoxidase enzyme, (which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So

allergy to bread can make you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies

with this kind of effect, but information on these is scanty. Certainly

allergic response to certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil

thyroid production and uptake.

Then we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine

system is linked; each part of it needs the other parts to be operating

normally to work properly. An example of this we have seen already, with

cortisone. But another example is the operation of sex hormones.

The imbalance that occurs at the menopause with progesterone running down, and

a relative dominance of oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen

dominance downgrades production, transportation and uptake of thyroid

hormones. This is why hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause;

the symptoms ascribed to this alone, which is then treated – often with extra

oestrogen, making the whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone most

especially needs to be dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance,

improves many menopausal symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses

osteoporosis. Happily natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when

used it has the added benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.

Then, we must never forget the possibility of mercury poisoning

(through amalgam fillings) - low levels of iron, transferring saturation%,

ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc - all of

which, if low, stop the thyroid hormone from being utilised by the cells -

these have to be treated. You say that you have had a lot of minerals and

vitamins tested, but could you post the results for each of the tests you had

done together with the reference range. Then we can help with their

interpretation to see whether you need to supplement any of these. Regarding

the 400mgs elemental iron you are taking to increase your ferritin level, are

you taking this with high doses of vitamin C (e.g. 3/4000mgs daily - or to

bowel tolerance) to help with iron absorption. Also, remember that you should

not be taking any iron or calcium at least 4 hours near to thyroid

hormone replacement as it stops the thyroxine getting into the cells. Check out

the other attached document here that shows just some of the references to low

iron/low thyroid association.

As Dr Peatfield says " When you have been quite unwell for a

long time, all these problems have to be dealt with; and since each may affect

the other, it all has to be done rather carefully.

Contrary to cherished beliefs by much of the medical

establishment, the correction of a thyroid deficiency state has a number of

complexities and variables, which make the treatment usually quite specific for

each person. The balancing of these variables is as much up to you as to

me – which is why a check of morning, day and evening temperatures and

pulse rates, together with symptoms, good and bad, can be so helpful.

Regarding your breathing problems, please read Dr Lowe's

response entitled 'Air Hunger to Death' http://www.drlowe.com/jcl/comentry/breathingproblems.htm

See if this applies to you Nicola.

Can you be more specific about the medication/supplements you

are taking, i.e. the dosage of each tablet rather than how many tablets you are

taking, i.e. Selenium 2--mcgs x 1 daily …..

As for your palpitations and racing heart beat, have you taken

500mgs Magnesium when this happens, and if so, does it help to calm them down?

If you have not tried this, then give it a go. If that doesn't help you might

want to consider a course of natural progesterone. It could be that your

oestrogen levels are low (as they are in a lot of sufferers of hypothyroidism)

and the progesterone would help balance these hormones.

You might want to read up a bit about the recommended low

calorie diet plus hCG drops that many of our members have tried and found to be

amazingly successful. If you are not a member of our Chat Group, ask Lilian to

send you an invitation and you can ask questions about this on that forum. Some

of our members have lost several stones in weight and very easily and healthily

at that.

I would be reluctant to try the T3 until you have gone through

all the above to see if the culprit as to your lack of regaining your optimal

health isn't lurking there somewhere, and if it is definitely none of these,

then it might be what is needed, but post the results of any tests you can get

done here.

I hope this helps and that something 'rings that bell' and that

you can now start on the road to recovery.

Luv - Sheila

My weight is also still increasing, and the severe palpitations mean that I

can't do any exercise, even walking. I'm really missing my punch bag, and my

kettlebells.

So, the bottom line is that, after being on NDT for nearly 3 and a half years,

my health is massively worse and I have felt no benefit whatsoever.

About a month ago, I ordered Serenity natural progesterone cream to try and

help the many hormonal symptoms I have each month.

But, more importantly, I felt compelled to order some synthetic T3, just in

case I am in some way reacting badly to the T4 in the Naturethroid.

Why do I seem to be the only person on the planet who hasn't recovered using

NDT???

I'm finding the whole thing very very depressing and T3 seems to be my last

resort, which is even scarier. What if it doesn't work either?

Any other observations or suggestions would be gratefully received.

Oh, I nearly forgot, just to make matters worse, I've got my first endo appt

next week. Have heard he'll try to put me back on Levo. Should I beg him for

T3, or fight to stay on Naturethroid?? Haven't a clue. Please help!

2 of 2 File(s)

WHY THYROID HORMONE REPLACEMENT MAY NOT BE WORKING FOR YOU.doc

MINERALS AND VIT. TESTING.doc

[Guest guest]

,

Many thanks for your response. I found it really helpful as I've been wondering

if the palps might be diet-related. I've tried and lost weight on low-carb

diets before but have always eventually given in to my longing for carbs. It's

not easy when your husband is carb-crazy, is a great cook and the kitchen is

full of delicious carbs! Don't get me wrong, I'm totally convinced that low-carb

is the answer to many many problems, But I'm just not very good at the practical

side of it!! Though, in the past when I gave up low-carb, I was doing it merely

to lose weight. This time, I'm hoping I might be able to stick with it for

longer since my health has deteriorated so much and I am so desperate to improve

it.

I've been taking 600mg of Magnesium every day for a couple of months, but I

guess it's a bit like a jigsaw and all the pieces need to be right in order for

everything to fall into place.

Can I ask how you take your NT and T3? Do you take the T3 very early in the

morning, and then just NT later in the day? I've only been on the T3 for a week,

so I'm only on 5mcg, which I take at 5am (when the dogs go out for a pee!), and

then I take 1grain NT at 1pm and 1grain at 5pm. Can I ask how much you are

taking of each?

Thanks again,

Nicola

>

> Nicola,

>

> I've neen at this whole malarky for years.... I'm ok with the thyroid meds (I

take t3 and NT) but have had terrible palpitations.... It seems to sort

itself out if I take magnesium and NO sugar at all. As soon as I eat sugar my

heart races...

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Miriam

Many thanks for your response. I'm sorry I may not have expressed myself very

well in my original message. I started to feel unwell several years ago, which

is when I started to do research into the thyroid situation. I first changed

from Levo to Armour 3 years ago, but it didn't help and so I changed to

Naturethroid this June.

I'm seriously praying that it isn't a mitral valve problem since my Mum had to

have open heart surgery for a mitral valve problem when she was the same age I

am now. However, I've been doing a lot of reading and there seems to be

considerable evidence that people have been treated for a valve problem when

actually they were suffering from a thyroid condition. My Mum had been

suffering on Levo for nearly 45 years until a couple of months ago when she

started on T3 and has felt an immediate drastic improvement.

I'm already being seen by a cardiologist for the atrial fibrillation, and it was

he who ordered the echo test for me. He has said that he agrees with me that

this is being caused by a thyroid problem, so he referred me to his endo

" friend " who I'm seeing for the first time next week.

It's just that the palps are very uncomfortable and unnerving, and I want to

look at all the possibilities. In the New Year, I'm going to reconsider my diet

to see if that helps at all.

Many thanks for your help,

Nicola

>

> If switching to Naturethroid is when you began to feel unwell, do you think

there is any connection?

>

> A friend of mine had really bad problems breathing and kept thinking it was

her asthma, but it turned out to be a serious problem with her mitral valve and

she needed an operation. Are you sure you don't have a heart problem? Has the

GP checked this out properly? I wouldn't just depend on the nurse's judgement

that you didn't need to see a cardiologist. If you did have a heart problem

then taking T3 could make it worse, so it's as well to be fully informed before

making any decisions.

>

> It certainly isn't the case that you are the only person on the planet who

hasn't recovered using NDT, but it may not be a thyroid-related problem.

>

> Miriam

[Guest guest]

Nicola,

check out the many associated conditions that stop thyroid hormone from working

and go through them as a process of elimination to find out what your problem

may be.

There

are MANY reasons and many medical conditions associated with thyroid disease

that stop thyroid hormone from getting into the cells, where it does its work.

I mention these over and over and over again - ad nauseum - people must be

bored with the same old stuff, but as each new member joins us, they need to

know about these.

The

main condition responsible for stopping thyroid hormone from working is, quite

simply, a patient’s thyroxine dose is too low because the doctor or

consultant refuses to increase it, because the serum thyroid function test

results appear OK. Sometimes, the thyroxoid hormone dose is too high, yet

patients still don't feel well. They continue to suffer. Some reasons

for this:

They

may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production of T4, its conversion

to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount of adrenal hormones,

notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut production down,

however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not responding properly, and

provision of cortisone usually switches it on again. But sometimes it

doesn’t. If the illness has been going on for a long time, the

enzyme seems to fail. This conversion failure (inexplicably denied by

many endocrinologists) means the thyroxine builds up, unconverted. So it

doesn’t work, and T4 toxicosis results. This makes the patient feel quite

unwell, toxic, often with palpitations and chest pain. If provision of adrenal

support doesn’t remedy the situation, the final solution is the use of

the active thyroid hormone, already converted, T3 - either synthetic or

natural.

Then,

we have systemic candidiasis. This is where candida albicans, yeast, which

causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body, invades the lining of the

lower part of the small intestine and the large intestine. Here, the

candida sets up residence in the warmth and the dark, and demands to be

fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make you suffer terrible

sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can cause very many

symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which interfere with the

uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the levels - which we

usually test for - can be very high, and make successful treatment difficult to

achieve until adequately treated.

Then

there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being hypothyroid

for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms which permit the

binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3 won’t go

in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support and adequate

vitamins and minerals, the receptors do come on line again. But this can

be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the dose up

gradually.

And

then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy is allergy to

gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by the body, by a

process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme,

(which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So allergy to bread can make

you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies with this kind of effect,

but information on these is scanty. Certainly allergic response to

certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil thyroid production and

uptake.

Then

we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine system is linked; each

part of it needs the other parts to be operating normally to work

properly. An example of this we have seen already, with cortisone.

But another example is the operation of sex hormones. The imbalance that

occurs at the menopause with progesterone running down, and a relative

dominance of oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen dominance

downgrades production, transportation and uptake of thyroid hormones.

This is why hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause; the symptoms

ascribed to this alone, which is then treated – often with extra

oestrogen, making the whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone most

especially needs to be dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance,

improves many menopausal symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses

osteoporosis. Happily natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when

used it has the added benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.

Then,

we must never forget the possibility of mercury poisoning (through amalgam

fillings) - low levels of iron, transferring saturation%, ferritin, vitamin

B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc - all of which, if low,

stop the thyroid hormone from being utilised by the cells - these have to be

treated.

As

Dr Peatfield says " When you have been quite unwell for a long time, all

these problems have to be dealt with; and since each may affect the other, it

all has to be done rather carefully.

Contrary

to cherished beliefs by much of the medical establishment, the correction of a

thyroid deficiency state has a number of complexities and variables, which make

the treatment usually quite specific for each person. The balancing of

these variables is as much up to you as to me – which is why a check of

morning, day and evening temperatures and pulse rates, together with symptoms,

good and bad, can be so helpful.

Many

of you have been ill for a long time, either because you have not been

diagnosed, or the treatment leaves you still quite unwell. Those of you

who have relatively mild hypothyroidism, and have been diagnosed relatively

quickly, may well respond to synthetic thyroxine, the standard treatment

For

many of you, the outstanding problem is not that the diagnosis has not been

made – although, extraordinarily, this is disgracefully common –

but that is has, and the thyroxine treatment doesn’t work. The dose

has been altered up and down, and clinical improvement is variable and

doesn’t last, in spite of blood tests, which say you are perfectly all

right (and therefore you are actually depressed and need this fine antidepressant).

The above problems must be eliminated if thyroid hormone isn't working for you.

I'm seriously praying that it isn't a mitral valve problem since my Mum had to

have open heart surgery for a mitral valve problem when she was the same age I

am now. However, I've been doing a lot of reading and there seems to be

considerable evidence that people have been treated for a valve problem when

actually they were suffering from a thyroid condition. My Mum had been

suffering on Levo for nearly 45 years until a couple of months ago when she

started on T3 and has felt an immediate drastic improvement.

I'm already being seen by a cardiologist for the atrial fibrillation, and it

was he who ordered the echo test for me. He has said that he agrees with me

that this is being caused by a thyroid problem, so he referred me to his endo

" friend " who I'm seeing for the first time next week.

It's just that the palps are very uncomfortable and unnerving, and I want to

look at all the possibilities. In the New Year, I'm going to reconsider my diet

to see if that helps at all.

__

[Guest guest]

My friend with the mitral valve problem had untreated hypothyroidism for ages,

so there does seem to be a connection.

Keep us posted about how you get on.

Miriam

> I've been doing a lot of reading and there seems to be considerable evidence

that people have been treated for a valve problem when actually they were

suffering from a thyroid condition.

> I'm already being seen by a cardiologist for the atrial fibrillation, and it

was he who ordered the echo test for me. He has said that he agrees with me

that this is being caused by a thyroid problem, so he referred me to his endo

" friend " who I'm seeing for the first time next week.

[Guest guest]

Hi Miriam and Nicola,

Some other common and often undiagnosed symptoms and dangerous

consequences of low thyroid include: serious mental problems, seizures, heart

disease, diabetes including misdiagnosis and complications, constipation

resulting in colon cancer, all female problems (due to high amounts of

dangerous forms of oestrogen), including: tumours, fibroids, ovarian cysts,

PMS, endometriosis, breast cancer, miscarriage, heavy periods and cramps,

bladder problems leading to infections, anaemia, elevated CPK,

elevated creatinine, elevated transaminases, hypercapnia, hyperlipidaemia,

hypoglycaemia, hyponatraemia, hypoxia, leukopaenia respiratory acidosis and

others....

Luv - Sheila

My friend with the mitral valve problem had

untreated hypothyroidism for ages, so there does seem to be a connection.

Keep us posted about how you get on.

Miriam

> I've been doing a lot of reading and there seems to be considerable

evidence that people have been treated for a valve problem when actually they

were suffering from a thyroid condition.

>

_,___