What should I do?

[Guest guest]

patti r a wreck in NH,

I know exactly how you feel. Yigal and tom are so much alike! Tom is

usually the instigater, but not always. With them both having OCD/MDD, I

have to monitor what is going on and let the other one know when its time to

avoid any contact with the other! It definatly can become a battle zone

here!

You are definatly not alone. You were 100% right to go this weekend. If

leaving them alone is causing such anxiety, maybe in a little while, when

Molly has more of control over her ocd, things will be easier. Many of us,

who ever has been delegated as the #1, have a huge responsibility. We book

appoitments, monitor behaviour, are basically the eyes and ears of hte doc,

without the advantage of professional training or time off.

It is due to this stress that it was determined that Tom would move out

under care of childrens services. Unfortunatly, the plan was to get tom

treatment, but though he has a new pychologist, he really isnt getting

treatment. Originally we asked for support at home, someone who could

provide us respite (that was when 2 were suicidal at the same time in 1997)

but this resource wasnt available " because they arent disabled enough to

need help " grrrr! We really have tried for respite in many ways...

I also know the fear of seeing your child your child in danger. This too

unfortunatly I have experienced, more than once. (

Molly sounds like a smart little kid, I think she knows she went too far. I

hope that is getting counselling for his anger.

remember to take care of yourself, go for more walks!

wendy, in canada wb4@...

==========================================================

>Does anyone here find themselves in a situation where the parents are at

>war over the child. I feel so damn alone. An I really feel that whatever

>I do someone is going to suffer.

>There is probably a boat load I left out but my nerves are fried and I a am

>just looking for a little input and a couple of BIG shoulders.

>Hopefully Martha can help me a little tomorrow.

>They are both SO ANGRY. My gosh, I feel like I am living in the middle of

>a combat zone and dealing with OCD at the same time and of course everyday

>life.

>>Thank God I love to go walking, the only safe escape.

>>patti r a wreck in NH

______________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

This will probably be long and disjointed so please be patient.

I have shared in the past that Molly and her father have a horrible

relationship. Although he takes her for counselling and spends a little

time with her and her therapist I, IMO, feel he has so many issues of his

own he cant possibly put it together with her. We are also in the middle of

trying to figure out how to seperate and that obviously adds to the stress.

So this Friday I had planned on going away for the weekend to a friends.

This mom really needed a break!!! I feel like I spend all my life in high

intensity land and its taking its toll.

So I get home Friday, planning to pack and leave. Micheal and Molly were

supposed to have gone out for the day but they were home when I got there.

They said they decided to stay home, I found myself wondering. Well as I

was packing they started fighting. I dont even know how to clearly explain

this insanity. I am not sure what precipated the fight but before you know

it he was yelling at her to go to her room, she was refusing and yelling at

him to leave her alone. It got so crazy that he was chasing her and there I

was trying to remember that " I am not supposed to get involved? " Molly

would run to my room he was telling her to get to her room. She actually

was screaming at him that he was an " asshole and butthead. " Then she told

him she would go " suicidal " and would jump off theroof. There is a sun room

in our house and the roof is under her bedroom window. It was freezing rain

here. I am still in my bedroom trying to call the psychologist now. When I

hear him say, " go ahead molly, you are gutless> " Next thing I know Molly is

out on the roof, covered in ice. I got her to come in. He started packing

his bags saying he was leaving. She started crying harder that she was

sorry.

This all went on for about a half hour. I cannot possibly get across in

words how intense and horrid it was.

The worst part is Micheal loves molly and vice versa. He would never

intentionally hurt her. But this is to insane and damaging to continue.

Of course after a scene like this they are best friends for awhile. So

finally I did actually go away knowing that all would be well. They would

both be on their best behavior.

I came home today and the tension and intensity exceeds anything I can

describe.

Part of me feels they both have to figure out how to have a realtionship.

The other part thinks he needs to move out quick so there can be some peace.

I am at a horrid place where I dont know what to do.

I am going to see Molly psychologist tomorrow alone.

Part of me thinks, (now dont think I am losing it) that I should actually

move out for awhile. And force the two of them to figure it out. And also

let Micheal have the experience of parenting completely. He doesnt know

what it is all about to do the phone calls, defusing, IEPs, keepig things

going. And the two of them have no idea how to work out anyting without

dragging mommy into the middle. Then I worry that neither one of them will

survive.

I am in shock by this whole friday episode. And very heartbroken. I cannot

beleive how she talked to him or he talked to her. She never does that with

me?

Does anyone here find themselves in a situation where the parents are at war

over the child. I feel so damn alone. An I really feel that whatever I do

someone is going to suffer.

There is probably a boat load I left out but my nerves are fried and I a am

just looking for a little input and a couple of BIG shoulders.

Hopefully Martha can help me a little tomorrow.

They are both SO ANGRY. My gosh, I feel like I am living in the middle of a

combat zone and dealing with OCD at the same time and of course everyday

life.

Thank God I love to go walking, the only safe escape.

patti r a wreck in NH

[Guest guest]

Hi Patti:

I am so sorry to read about the struggles you have been going through.

Dealing with OCD and a difficult marriage at the same time must be

overwhelming. You are doing a great job to keep walking. I'm glad you

could get away for a bit of R & R by yourself in spite of the disarray you

described.

and I have certainly had our arguments about how to deal with OCD.

THe trauma and stress in OCD family makes disagreement, tension and

arguments practically automatic. The hard part is that you have to work

out these disagreements about how to deal with OCD coparenting Molly will

continue whether your relationship with continues or not. I hope

your session with Martha goes well tomorrow and gives you the comfort and

support you deserve. Take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 07:47 PM 02/27/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>From: " Patti R. " <pross@...>

>

>This will probably be long and disjointed so please be patient.

>

>I have shared in the past that Molly and her father have a horrible

>relationship. Although he takes her for counselling and spends a little

>time with her and her therapist I, IMO, feel he has so many issues of his

>own he cant possibly put it together with her. We are also in the middle of

>trying to figure out how to seperate and that obviously adds to the stress.

>So this Friday I had planned on going away for the weekend to a friends.

>This mom really needed a break!!! I feel like I spend all my life in high

>intensity land and its taking its toll.

>

>So I get home Friday, planning to pack and leave. Micheal and Molly were

>supposed to have gone out for the day but they were home when I got there.

>

>They said they decided to stay home, I found myself wondering. Well as I

>was packing they started fighting. I dont even know how to clearly explain

>this insanity. I am not sure what precipated the fight but before you know

>it he was yelling at her to go to her room, she was refusing and yelling at

>him to leave her alone. It got so crazy that he was chasing her and there I

>was trying to remember that " I am not supposed to get involved? " Molly

>would run to my room he was telling her to get to her room. She actually

>was screaming at him that he was an " asshole and butthead. " Then she told

>him she would go " suicidal " and would jump off theroof. There is a sun room

>in our house and the roof is under her bedroom window. It was freezing rain

>here. I am still in my bedroom trying to call the psychologist now. When I

>hear him say, " go ahead molly, you are gutless> " Next thing I know Molly is

>out on the roof, covered in ice. I got her to come in. He started packing

>his bags saying he was leaving. She started crying harder that she was

>sorry.

>

>This all went on for about a half hour. I cannot possibly get across in

>words how intense and horrid it was.

>

>The worst part is Micheal loves molly and vice versa. He would never

>intentionally hurt her. But this is to insane and damaging to continue.

>

>Of course after a scene like this they are best friends for awhile. So

>finally I did actually go away knowing that all would be well. They would

>both be on their best behavior.

>I came home today and the tension and intensity exceeds anything I can

>describe.

>Part of me feels they both have to figure out how to have a realtionship.

>The other part thinks he needs to move out quick so there can be some peace.

>I am at a horrid place where I dont know what to do.

>I am going to see Molly psychologist tomorrow alone.

>

>Part of me thinks, (now dont think I am losing it) that I should actually

>move out for awhile. And force the two of them to figure it out. And also

>let Micheal have the experience of parenting completely. He doesnt know

>what it is all about to do the phone calls, defusing, IEPs, keepig things

>going. And the two of them have no idea how to work out anyting without

>dragging mommy into the middle. Then I worry that neither one of them will

>survive.

>I am in shock by this whole friday episode. And very heartbroken. I cannot

>beleive how she talked to him or he talked to her. She never does that with

>me?

>Does anyone here find themselves in a situation where the parents are at war

>over the child. I feel so damn alone. An I really feel that whatever I do

>someone is going to suffer.

>There is probably a boat load I left out but my nerves are fried and I a am

>just looking for a little input and a couple of BIG shoulders.

>Hopefully Martha can help me a little tomorrow.

>

>They are both SO ANGRY. My gosh, I feel like I am living in the middle of a

>combat zone and dealing with OCD at the same time and of course everyday

>life.

>

>Thank God I love to go walking, the only safe escape.

>

>patti r a wreck in NH

[Guest guest]

HI:

I really like what Judy has advised. Coping with OCD is very hard to do on

your own. Even though and I had many moments of bitter disagreement

about how to handle things, time and psychoeducation helped enormously.

Also taking parenting classes and adopting a professional parenting program

helped us get our parenting styles more in synch. ly I know there is

no way I could have dealt with Steve's OCD and suicide attempts without

by my side, even if we didn't see things the same way. 's great

sense of humor makes him a much better paradoxical therapy practitioner

than I am, and I learn from him how to improve my technique.

Coping with OCD together has actually strengthened our marriage. At first

it definitely weakened it, but coming out the other side of the trauma has

given us a new sense of appreciation for each other as partners with a

powerful joint commitment to our children. Take care, aloha, kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 09:50 PM 02/27/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>From: " Judith C. Lovchik " <jlovchik@...>

>

>It think typically one parent is better at dealing with the child's OCD

>than the other. We have had lots of situations where my son was calling

>my husband " butthead and asshole " (very common terms of approbrium among

>preteens and teens). I try to intervene and calm my son down first,

>then speak to my husband about better ways to deal with such

>situations. It is important that the other parent participate in the

>child's therapy if they are to remain involved. We have been talking

>about doing family therapy, but my son's therapist does not get along

>very well with my husband. Maybe yours will work out better.

>

>I get the impression you are ambivalent about how much you want your

>husband to participate in her care. It would be a relief to you to have

>someone share the load. But he seems to makes matters worse by his

>incompetence. These are issues you might be able to work out in family

>therapy.

>

>Good luck.

>

>Judy

[Guest guest]

hey guys-- there's an old saying. Be careful what you wish for.

I felt overwhelmingly the same, but last August my husband lost his job. He

is now equally capable of dealing with most of this stuff. Unfortunately,

the insurance and severance are about to run out, and I'm begging him to just

leave all this to me and devote his time to finding a job!!

Please know that I feel your pain, even though I'm sort of attempting humor

here.

Ellen in NY

[Guest guest]

hey guys-- there's an old saying. Be careful what you wish for.

I felt overwhelmingly the same, but last August my husband lost his job. He

is now equally capable of dealing with most of this stuff. Unfortunately,

the insurance and severance are about to run out, and I'm begging him to just

leave all this to me and devote his time to finding a job!!

Please know that I feel your pain, even though I'm sort of attempting humor

here.

Ellen in NY

[Guest guest]

hey guys-- there's an old saying. Be careful what you wish for.

I felt overwhelmingly the same, but last August my husband lost his job. He

is now equally capable of dealing with most of this stuff. Unfortunately,

the insurance and severance are about to run out, and I'm begging him to just

leave all this to me and devote his time to finding a job!!

Please know that I feel your pain, even though I'm sort of attempting humor

here.

Ellen in NY

[Guest guest]

hey guys-- there's an old saying. Be careful what you wish for.

I felt overwhelmingly the same, but last August my husband lost his job. He

is now equally capable of dealing with most of this stuff. Unfortunately,

the insurance and severance are about to run out, and I'm begging him to just

leave all this to me and devote his time to finding a job!!

Please know that I feel your pain, even though I'm sort of attempting humor

here.

Ellen in NY

[Guest guest]

Hi Patti, I'm so sorry to hear of these troubles your family is having. The

combo of the problems OCD causes the sufferer coupled with the stress is

creates in the family is intense. I'm glad you were able to have your

weekend anyway but at such a price! We haven't had dramatic scenes here, my

husband's response to our daughter's OCD has been to withdraw and deny. He

sort of sleep-walks through any interactions with her, 90% of his attention

elsewhere. He has so far refused to learn anything about OCD, E & RP or

parenting strategies, won't discuss anything related to treatment, etc., or

make any decisions (agrees in principle that he should but something always

prevents him.) He has become at least as big a problem as Kel's OCD.

I have so much empathy with your description of living in high-intensity

land! It's so difficult to take care of yourself, as is advised on this

list often, when your spouse has his own issues and is incompetent with the

OCD child. To catch a break from parenting my OCDer, I rely on my sister

and a couple of friends and skip her Dad altogether, I just don't have the

energy right now to take on yet another thorny problem.

I hope the counseling session today helps.

Kathy R. in Indiana

> From: " Patti R. " <pross@...>

>

> This will probably be long and disjointed so please be patient.

>

> I have shared in the past that Molly and her father have a horrible

> relationship. Although he takes her for counselling and spends a little

> time with her and her therapist I, IMO, feel he has so many issues of his

> own he cant possibly put it together with her. We are also in the middle

of

> trying to figure out how to seperate and that obviously adds to the

stress.

> So this Friday I had planned on going away for the weekend to a friends.

> This mom really needed a break!!! I feel like I spend all my life in

high

> intensity land and its taking its toll.

>

> So I get home Friday, planning to pack and leave. Micheal and Molly were

> supposed to have gone out for the day but they were home when I got there.

>

> They said they decided to stay home, I found myself wondering. Well as I

> was packing they started fighting. I dont even know how to clearly

explain

> this insanity. I am not sure what precipated the fight but before you

know

> it he was yelling at her to go to her room, she was refusing and yelling

at

> him to leave her alone. It got so crazy that he was chasing her and there

I

> was trying to remember that " I am not supposed to get involved? " Molly

> would run to my room he was telling her to get to her room. She actually

> was screaming at him that he was an " asshole and butthead. " Then she told

> him she would go " suicidal " and would jump off theroof. There is a sun

room

> in our house and the roof is under her bedroom window. It was freezing

rain

> here. I am still in my bedroom trying to call the psychologist now. When

I

> hear him say, " go ahead molly, you are gutless> " Next thing I know Molly

is

> out on the roof, covered in ice. I got her to come in. He started

packing

> his bags saying he was leaving. She started crying harder that she was

> sorry.

>

> This all went on for about a half hour. I cannot possibly get across in

> words how intense and horrid it was.

>

> The worst part is Micheal loves molly and vice versa. He would never

> intentionally hurt her. But this is to insane and damaging to continue.

>

> Of course after a scene like this they are best friends for awhile. So

> finally I did actually go away knowing that all would be well. They would

> both be on their best behavior.

> I came home today and the tension and intensity exceeds anything I can

> describe.

> Part of me feels they both have to figure out how to have a realtionship.

> The other part thinks he needs to move out quick so there can be some

peace.

> I am at a horrid place where I dont know what to do.

> I am going to see Molly psychologist tomorrow alone.

>

> Part of me thinks, (now dont think I am losing it) that I should actually

> move out for awhile. And force the two of them to figure it out. And

also

> let Micheal have the experience of parenting completely. He doesnt know

> what it is all about to do the phone calls, defusing, IEPs, keepig things

> going. And the two of them have no idea how to work out anyting without

> dragging mommy into the middle. Then I worry that neither one of them

will

> survive.

> I am in shock by this whole friday episode. And very heartbroken. I

cannot

> beleive how she talked to him or he talked to her. She never does that

with

> me?

> Does anyone here find themselves in a situation where the parents are at

war

> over the child. I feel so damn alone. An I really feel that whatever I

do

> someone is going to suffer.

> There is probably a boat load I left out but my nerves are fried and I a

am

> just looking for a little input and a couple of BIG shoulders.

> Hopefully Martha can help me a little tomorrow.

>

> They are both SO ANGRY. My gosh, I feel like I am living in the middle of

a

> combat zone and dealing with OCD at the same time and of course everyday

> life.

>

> Thank God I love to go walking, the only safe escape.

>

> patti r a wreck in NH

[Guest guest]

> From: " Patti R. " <pross@...>

> Part of me thinks, (now dont think I am losing it) that I should actually

> move out for awhile. And force the two of them to figure it out. And

also

> let Micheal have the experience of parenting completely. He doesnt know

> what it is all about to do the phone calls, defusing, IEPs, keepig things

> going. And the two of them have no idea how to work out anyting without

> dragging mommy into the middle. Then I worry that neither one of them

will

> survive.

Patti, I meant to say something about this part of your post in my first

post. I have fantasized about being really sick, or hurt in an accident, in

the hospital preferably in a coma, completely unavailable so my husband

would be forced into becoming competent with his OCDer! I don't think I'm

losing it either, but I think it would take something dramatic like this

scenerio for him to start dealing with the realities.

Kathy R. in Indiana

[Guest guest]

I went alone to see Martha (Molly's psych) on Monday. First off she said

" she would have to be insane " to give a blessing to me leaving Molly with

Micheal awhile. She feels is anger is wayout of control. When I told her

some of what went on, including Micheal daring Molly to jump off the roof

her suggestion (which I already knew in my heart) was that he needed to move

out. We are both hoping he will continue to bring Molly to Martha so that

she can spend some time each week with the both of them. She is also going

to suggest individual counselling to him, but I doubt he will go.

It is so sad. Whenever I post I am usually frustrating and angry. But

there is also a very big part of me that is sad and greiving. I love

Micheal and it will be a hard road for me to live without him. I am so

worried about Molly, who blames herself for everything.

I feel sorry for him in the sense that I fear he will always just live with

his issues and never get better. As Martha said my hoping that he will miss

us and go for therapy is my agenda and probably not his.

I am really on an emotional rollercoaster. I think I will go on Prozac for

awhile to keep myself in some sort of stable place.

Molly is not going to do well with this as we all know. I am going to talk

to her, as is Martha and hopefully Micheal that we all need peace in our

daily lives and this might be a way to get it.

I find myself looking at old pictures of when Molls was born. There we were

thinking that life would be full of joys and pleasures. Who knew?

Now I try to celebrate little things but right now the big things seem to be

ever present in my mind.

I just pray this doesnt put Molls back too far. Or me for that matter.

I guess Martha really sees a spiraling with his anger and worries. I can

understand that.

Patti R in NH

[Guest guest]

Hi:

{{{{{{Patti}}}}}}

You certainly are dealing with a lot right now Patti. Martha is right that

safety is paramount and ensuring this will cost you tremendously, such a

tough situation, so much loss.

You are doing very well to remember to take care of yourself through this

and see you get the support you need. What you wrote about looking at

Molly's baby picture reminded me of how I couldn't even look at our family

pictures with Steve on the walls and on the piano for a time as tears would

just spurt right out. Now I look at them and think wow, little did I

realize what was ahead for that cutie and little did I realize what a

strong, resilient, determined little fighter of OCD he would be.

Take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 07:42 AM 03/01/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>From: " Patti R. " <pross@...>

>

>I went alone to see Martha (Molly's psych) on Monday. First off she said

> " she would have to be insane " to give a blessing to me leaving Molly with

>Micheal awhile. She feels is anger is wayout of control. When I told her

>some of what went on, including Micheal daring Molly to jump off the roof

>her suggestion (which I already knew in my heart) was that he needed to move

>out. We are both hoping he will continue to bring Molly to Martha so that

>she can spend some time each week with the both of them. She is also going

>to suggest individual counselling to him, but I doubt he will go.

>It is so sad. Whenever I post I am usually frustrating and angry. But

>there is also a very big part of me that is sad and greiving. I love

>Micheal and it will be a hard road for me to live without him. I am so

>worried about Molly, who blames herself for everything.

>I feel sorry for him in the sense that I fear he will always just live with

>his issues and never get better. As Martha said my hoping that he will miss

>us and go for therapy is my agenda and probably not his.

>I am really on an emotional rollercoaster. I think I will go on Prozac for

>awhile to keep myself in some sort of stable place.

>Molly is not going to do well with this as we all know. I am going to talk

>to her, as is Martha and hopefully Micheal that we all need peace in our

>daily lives and this might be a way to get it.

>I find myself looking at old pictures of when Molls was born. There we were

>thinking that life would be full of joys and pleasures. Who knew?

>Now I try to celebrate little things but right now the big things seem to be

>ever present in my mind.

>I just pray this doesnt put Molls back too far. Or me for that matter.

>

>I guess Martha really sees a spiraling with his anger and worries. I can

>understand that.

>

>Patti R in NH

[Guest guest]

Hi Patti,

I really feel for you in your situation. It's hard to go thru a divorce, even

like in my case where I wasn't in love with my ex , because there's always the

loss of " the dream " . Usually that loss occurs with anything you do that you had

some kind of assumption about (and it's hard not to make assumptions about what

" happily ever after " will mean) but this is a big one. So is the loss you feel

when you realize that your child has some challenges. Oh those innocent Baby

days!

But having dealt with both of these things I can honestly say it does get

better. You will feel better and Molly will be ok. You are not alone and it

sounds like you have a good therapist. I have faith that you will get through

this. You are a strong person!

Dana in NC

Patti R. wrote:

> From: " Patti R. " <pross@...>

>

> I went alone to see Martha (Molly's psych) on Monday. First off she said

> " she would have to be insane " to give a blessing to me leaving Molly with

> Micheal awhile. She feels is anger is wayout of control. When I told her

> some of what went on, including Micheal daring Molly to jump off the roof

> her suggestion (which I already knew in my heart) was that he needed to move

> out. We are both hoping he will continue to bring Molly to Martha so that

> she can spend some time each week with the both of them. She is also going

> to suggest individual counselling to him, but I doubt he will go.

> It is so sad. Whenever I post I am usually frustrating and angry. But

> there is also a very big part of me that is sad and greiving. I love

> Micheal and it will be a hard road for me to live without him. I am so

> worried about Molly, who blames herself for everything.

> I feel sorry for him in the sense that I fear he will always just live with

> his issues and never get better. As Martha said my hoping that he will miss

> us and go for therapy is my agenda and probably not his.

> I am really on an emotional rollercoaster. I think I will go on Prozac for

> awhile to keep myself in some sort of stable place.

> Molly is not going to do well with this as we all know. I am going to talk

> to her, as is Martha and hopefully Micheal that we all need peace in our

> daily lives and this might be a way to get it.

> I find myself looking at old pictures of when Molls was born. There we were

> thinking that life would be full of joys and pleasures. Who knew?

> Now I try to celebrate little things but right now the big things seem to be

> ever present in my mind.

> I just pray this doesnt put Molls back too far. Or me for that matter.

>

> I guess Martha really sees a spiraling with his anger and worries. I can

> understand that.

>

> Patti R in NH

>

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[Guest guest]

My Aspie hit 14 this year & has many of the same issues. One difference, we've chosen to let be himself. If he choses to sit in his room & read, that's fine with us. He is allowed to email his friends, so long as I have the password, & can check any of his mail when I feel the need to. HE is limited on his computer/gameboy/game cube time, and like Average teens, he's wanting his freedom & balking at our rules & restrictions. But, we stand our grounds. One thing he might not realize is that MOST kids have rules & limits, dispite what they say when they're together. And that the kids who don't have rules, also don't have parents that really care about what happens to them. We do have in a couple of social organizations (Boy Scouts and Church Youth Groups) and while they can be trying for him, at times, we've got a deal going. If he participates (and that is determined by parent observations) he

gets a reward (either an extra half hour on games, or an alowance bonus, or he can skip a meeting if he choses) Hygene is a problem in our home also, but we've got an "open door" policy for the whole family....unless your privates are exposed, the door may not close...so when he's grooming himself, I can listen in & hear the teeth getting brushed, or the face being washed. It is hard to remember sometimes that under that Aspie, there's an average teen with all the same angst & hormones & issues & peer pressure that we all went through Hugs & Peace, Sheri Briley http://my2.tupperware.com/johnbriley __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Makes perfect sense to me. We live on a lake, have a boat, jet ski etc. My kids NEVER go out. They have told me , 'mom, you just have to realize we are nerds and we don't like going outside.' Just a guess but if he's like my boys I am sure the daycare kids overwhelm him 'socially' and he needs down time alone to regroup. I may be totally off base. I don't have any advice. I can just relate so well. My boys are pasty white from being in the house all the time. At least when they get older they won't be wrinkled or have to worry about skin cancer...The teeth thing too. Boy they will lie about brushing and bathing in a heartbeat.. Hard to comprehend sometimes why they wouldn't just brush and bathe to keep the peace... Toni

What should I do?

Before Mike was diognosed he would live in his bedroom, playing gameboy or gamecube. The therapists have told us he needs to interact with others so we told him he could be in his room after his shower at night, during the day he had to be downstairs. Even if it was just watching tv, at least he was still with others. After the daycare kids left for the day we've told him he has to go outside to play, weather permitting. All of this has caused alot of problems in the last few months since he's hit 13. My other boys spend alot of time in their rooms, but they also have an active social life. When we make Mike go outside, he sits. Nothing else, just sits. Should I just say the heck with it and let him stay in his room if he wants? I could limit the use of the gamegear, but he still has the tv. He shares the third floor with my 15y/o son, we put a wall up to divide the space so they could each have a room, but it's so stinkin hot up there in the summer, the air conditioner helps some but not much. I really don't want him holed up by himself, but I'm also tired of all the arguing. He says we're to 'restrictive' with him, just this morning we got into it, he said he did his teeth, I didn't see him do them. Did the sniff test, didn't smell toothpaste, made him do it again. He got VERY angry, I told him he was acting like a 1y/o, he told me to shut up. He's never talked to me like that before, he got smacked in the mouth for it. He said we never believe him, but when I try to explain why we don't (his lying) he just tunes me out. This all happened about an hour ago, he's acting like nothing happened now. I just don't know what to do anymore, I feel if I let him stay in his room I'm giving up on him somehow, but if I make him stay downstairs I feel like I'm being to hard on him somehow. Does that make any sense? ARGGGG!!!

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

>>Before Mike was diognosed he would live in his bedroom, playing

gameboy or gamecube. The therapists have told us he needs to interact

with others<<

Why? He will not learn any social skills from just being with others, that

is the very nature of ASD. To have to interact is *incredibly* hard work for

someone with ASD, and he will do a lot better by being allowed to

self-regulate.

>>so we told him he could be in his room after his shower

at night, during the day he had to be downstairs. Even if it was just

watching tv, at least he was still with others. After the daycare

kids left for the day we've told him he has to go outside to play,

weather permitting.<<

Is he allowed to be on his own when he gets back from school? And whilst the

day-care kids are around? If not, then he needs to be left to recover from

school and not be forced to interact with other people's children.

>>All of this has caused alot of problems in the

last few months since he's hit 13. My other boys spend alot of time

in their rooms, but they also have an active social life.<<

You have to accept that a 'social life' is anathema to him. He doesn't want

to be with others and it doesn't give him pleasure to have to do it, it is

just another stress in his life which he could do without. Remember his

brain works in a different way to yours, and so things which you find

helpful, like being with friends, just is hard work for him. Being with

people is tiring, as my son says.

>>When we

make Mike go outside, he sits. Nothing else, just sits.<<

What do you expect him to do? Ride his bike around? If so, tell him that -

he won't know what he is supposed to be doing unless you make it explicit to

him - he takes things literally, so he will take the command " Go outside "

literally and do just that. But if you're expecting him to go and play some

game with others, like football, then forget it.

in England

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 07/27/2006 10:49:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, blueblazer_16201@... writes:

Before Mike was diognosed he would live in his bedroom, playing gameboy or gamecube. The therapists have told us he needs to interact with others so we told him he could be in his room after his shower at night, during the day he had to be downstairs. Even if it was just watching tv, at least he was still with others. After the daycare kids left for the day we've told him he has to go outside to play, weather permitting. All of this has caused alot of problems in the last few months since he's hit 13. My other boys spend alot of time in their rooms, but they also have an active social life. When we make Mike go outside, he sits. Nothing else, just sits. Should I just say the heck with it and let him stay in his room if he wants? I could limit the use of the gamegear, but he still has the tv. He shares the third floor with my 15y/o son, we put a wall up to divide the space so they could each have a room, but it's so stinkin hot up there in the summer, the air conditioner helps some but not much. I really don't want him holed up by himself, but I'm also tired of all the arguing. He says we're to 'restrictive' with him, just this morning we got into it, he said he did his teeth, I didn't see him do them. Did the sniff test, didn't smell toothpaste, made him do it again. He got VERY angry, I told him he was acting like a 1y/o, he told me to shut up. He's never talked to me like that before, he got smacked in the mouth for it. He said we never believe him, but when I try to explain why we don't (his lying) he just tunes me out. This all happened about an hour ago, he's acting like nothing happened now. I just don't know what to do anymore, I feel if I let him stay in his room I'm giving up on him somehow, but if I make him stay downstairs I feel like I'm being to hard on him somehow. Does that make any sense? ARGGGG!!!

my opinion is (and all advice is strictly opinion) that sometimes you have to use tough love. but also there are ways to compromise. perhaps you could allow him a 1/2 hr. (or some other time increment) in his room, then a 1/2 hr. downstairs. the same with sending him outside. i would also provide him with specific activities for outside (ie: "go play basketball for 10 minutes, then you can go up to your room").

as for the teeth brushing...some things are just normal for a teen. i know plenty of people with typical teens who go through the same battles. i think you have to decide on priorities....with my daughter, brushing teeth is not optional. for some others, it's not as big a deal. anyway, good luck!!

I LOVE SOMEONE WITH AUTISM

[Guest guest]

I used to work for a video game company. I am an accountant but

since it was a small company, I did game counseling too. I was

constantly amazed at the intelligence of the kids that would call in

however based on the number of hours they would play, I knew they had

no social life. My first was only a year old and I decided I would

never want him to have a game system because I felt it would make him

anti-social. Now I see things differently. These kids are not anti-

social because they play video games but they play video games

because they lack social skills to begin with.

We all need something in our life we feel we are good at. Most kids

on the spectrum are very good at video games. I think for some, this

is the only thing in their life that gives them a sense of

accomplishment. It is also a tool to help them unwind. On the other

hand, if allowed to play too long, it can be an escape from reality.

Now my oldest is 14 and aspergers. He has a GameCube and Playstation

but his play time is limited. He does not like it but it has always

been that way. Instead of simply telling his to stop playing though,

I have tried to find other things he might be interested in and

provide opportunities for him to feel a similar sense of

accomplishment. When I found out someone at our church was willing

to train up kids to learn computer repair, I got him involved

immediately. Now he can build a computer from scratch and wants to

start his own repair business. I got him a digital camera and he is

now the official photographer for his school's yearbook committee.

The woman that oversees the yearbook committee has told me on more

than one occasion that he is very gifted and could have a career in

photography. He downloads his photos in the computer and makes video

compilations using a combination of stills and video clips set to

music. I got him a clarinet which he has played for 6 years. He has

played in an orchestra for 4 years and a small group ensemble for the

last 2. Now he is interested in Jazz and starting to improvise with

dad (who plays piano). Getting him to practice over the years has

been a struggle though. I enroll him in classes at YMCA for various

sports and take him to church youth group once a week. One of the

leaders in the youth group noticed his interest in technology and

offered to train him to help working the sound board. Now he runs

sound for the church youth group and assists for the main service.

Most of my son's social activities are more side by side, not

interactive. Situations where he is together with others but not

necessarily interacting with them are the most comfortable. When he

goes to youth group at church, he is running sound so even though he

is with the group, he has a job to do which is his primary focus.

The other kids see he is good at it and surround him wanting to know

what he does. This is a less stressful way for him to learn how to

interact because their focus is not on him but on what he does and he

starts out with them looking up to him. When my son is at school, he

has a job to do taking pictures. The other kids like to see the

pictures he took and appreciate it when he listens to them as to what

to take and delete. Again he is interacting but the focus is off of

him and onto what he does and is good at. When he is in orchestra,

he is part of a team. The other players are dependent on him to play

his part right but again, his focus is on the job at hand.

When it comes to video games, I have a say in what my son buys and

plays. Most of the games he is allowed to get must have 2 player

options. He has friends he invites over to play video games so he

can use the 2 player option. I have found it interesting what type

of games he likes. His preference is single player games where it is

him against the system (predictability?). With two player games, he

likes it when they compete side by side (such as racing games) or

playing on the same team (working toward the same goal). He

absolutely hates games where it is player 1 vs. player 2. I think it

is due to the fact that he has to deal with the unpredictability of

the other person. For example, he loves playing Jedi Outcast (Star

Wars lightsaber duels) against the computer but absolutely hates

playing the exact same game against a person playing the opponent.

Sometimes I have my son go outside to play with the neighbor kids. I

know if I just send him out, he will have no idea what to do.

Because of this, I will always send him with something to do. He

just bought a skateboard a couple days ago so now he is trying to

learn how to do that. The other kids see he is just learning so they

are quick to want to share their knowledge with him.

Just a different way to look at things and ideas to help make him

more successful. Keep up the good work. Us parents are not here to

win a popularity contest but prepare our kids for life. The thanks

will hopefully come later in life.

>

> Before Mike was diognosed he would live in his bedroom, playing

> gameboy or gamecube. The therapists have told us he needs to

interact

> with others so we told him he could be in his room after his shower

> at night, during the day he had to be downstairs. Even if it was

just

> watching tv, at least he was still with others. After the daycare

> kids left for the day we've told him he has to go outside to play,

> weather permitting. All of this has caused alot of problems in the

> last few months since he's hit 13. My other boys spend alot of time

> in their rooms, but they also have an active social life. When we

> make Mike go outside, he sits. Nothing else, just sits. Should I

just

> say the heck with it and let him stay in his room if he wants? I

> could limit the use of the gamegear, but he still has the tv. He

> shares the third floor with my 15y/o son, we put a wall up to

divide

> the space so they could each have a room, but it's so stinkin hot

up

> there in the summer, the air conditioner helps some but not much. I

> really don't want him holed up by himself, but I'm also tired of

all

> the arguing. He says we're to 'restrictive' with him, just this

> morning we got into it, he said he did his teeth, I didn't see him

do

> them. Did the sniff test, didn't smell toothpaste, made him do it

> again. He got VERY angry, I told him he was acting like a 1y/o, he

> told me to shut up. He's never talked to me like that before, he

got

> smacked in the mouth for it. He said we never believe him, but when

I

> try to explain why we don't (his lying) he just tunes me out. This

> all happened about an hour ago, he's acting like nothing happened

> now. I just don't know what to do anymore, I feel if I let him stay

> in his room I'm giving up on him somehow, but if I make him stay

> downstairs I feel like I'm being to hard on him somehow. Does that

> make any sense? ARGGGG!!!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I for one do not force my son to socialize if he does not want to. On the other hand, I do not allow any of my children to have gamecube, tv or a computer in their room. I think it encourges anti-social behavior, but that is me, and my house rules for all my kids. choses, for the most part, to be with all of us most of the time. If he wants to be alone, we don't force the issue. Of course, he is only 10, not a teenager, so those years will be interesting I'm sure, and I'm in the beginning phase of it with my NT son who turns 12 next Monday (the mouthing off issues).

PAULA - Peoria IL

-- "angelndragon03" <blueblazer_16201@...> wrote:

Before Mike was diognosed he would live in his bedroom, playing gameboy or gamecube. The therapists have told us he needs to interact with others so we told him he could be in his room after his shower at night, during the day he had to be downstairs. Even if it was just watching tv, at least he was still with others. After the daycare kids left for the day we've told him he has to go outside to play, weather permitting. All of this has caused alot of problems in the last few months since he's hit 13. My other boys spend alot of time in their rooms, but they also have an active social life. When we make Mike go outside, he sits. Nothing else, just sits. Should I just say the heck with it and let him stay in his room if he wants? I could limit the use of the gamegear, but he still has the tv. He shares the third floor with my 15y/o son, we put a wall up to divide the space so they could each have a room, but it's so stinkin hot up there in the summer, the air conditioner helps some but not much. I really don't want him holed up by himself, but I'm also tired of all the arguing. He says we're to 'restrictive' with him, just this morning we got into it, he said he did his teeth, I didn't see him do them. Did the sniff test, didn't smell toothpaste, made him do it again. He got VERY angry, I told him he was acting like a 1y/o, he told me to shut up. He's never talked to me like that before, he got smacked in the mouth for it. He said we never believe him, but when I try to explain why we don't (his lying) he just tunes me out. This all happened about an hour ago, he's acting like nothing happened now. I just don't know what to do anymore, I feel if I let him stay in his room I'm giving up on him somehow, but if I make him stay downstairs I feel like I'm being to hard on him somehow. Does that make any sense? ARGGGG!!!

________________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Louie spent most of his time in his room, starting when he was about 12.

We didn't stop him because, frankly, we needed the rest. We

decided, after having asked other folks " in the know " about it, that he

was a " solitary " for the foreseeable future. So we let him alone, let

him listen to his radio, read his books, operate his fantasy

broadcasting studios, watch his TV (he's never been into video games).

Of course, we required that he take his meals with us, but nothing else

really. No pressure at all. He did this until he was about 17 - 18, and

then he started staying downstairs a while after dinner to watch the

tube with us and read the paper. And then he began, about the next

year, to spend time with us when he got home from his transition

training (through the public school system here), letting us know (to a

limited extent) how his day had gone; we had to " grill " him to get him

to tell us these things, but he didn't seem to mind it. And he's

stay downstairs for dinner, but then go upstairs to watch his own tv (he

had cable too). He didn't like the shows we " old people " watched.

Louie moved out when he was 21, into assisted living, but by then he was

spending about as much time with us as a typical man that age would

spend with his parents. Which is to say, just enough to keep 'em happy.

Now that he's 26, and has been out of the house for 5 years, he still

tends to stay in his room a lot at his house. Of course, he's gone most

all day during the week for his job or his volunteer gigs, or to day

services. And on the weekend, he and his roomies (and staff) go to the

movies, or spend the weekend up in Taos (someone donated a condo there

to his agency), or do festivals...or just go antiquing (which he loves)

or to the flea market. He's a busy guy. But when he gets home, he

hangs out in his part of the house (bedrm, sitting rm, bath) until

supper, and then if nothing is happening that evening of a social

nature, he hangs out in his place until he goes to bed. And he's a

happy guy!

I think the trick is to not expect our guys to act a whole lot like

other people their age. Our folks, for the most part, are not social

animals. Not with their peer group, not with their parents, not social.

Of course, there are exceptions to this(inconsistency, thy name is

autism), but for the most part this is a true thing. So for our part,

we put no pressure on Louie to be social with anyone, not even us. It

seemed to upset him so much when we forced the issue that we decided it

wasn't worth it. Let him be alone, if it made him happy. I think we

made the right choice, since he decided on his own to " edge " into being

somewhere other than his room at least a *little* bit of the time. And

now he's better at it....but he's still no social butterfly. And that's OK.

Our experience only. ymmv

Annie, who loves ya annie@...

--

“If you have made mistakes, there is always another chance for you. You

may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing we call

'failure' is not the falling down, but the staying down.” -- Pickford

[Guest guest]

I am a very different kind of parent I guess. I tried

the route of afterschool activities & she didn't take

well to any of them. She is absolutely a computer

expert. She has one & tons of games for it. One of her

favorites is the Sims & Roller Coaster Tycoon. She has

Nintendo 64, GameCube, Playstation 2, & XBox. When she

plays a video game she plays until she solves it &

that is usually within a day or two. I just let the

fascination run it's course & then she will go off &

play outside or read or do a puzzle. I have one of

those kids that I don't have to limit her TV time or

Video game time because it isn't an issue of obsession

for her.

E.

Colorado

--- pjand3kids <pjand3kids@...> wrote:

>

> Well, I for one do not force my son to socialize if

> he does not want to. On the other hand, I do not

> allow any of my children to have gamecube, tv or a

> computer in their room. I think it encourges

> anti-social behavior, but that is me, and my house

> rules for all my kids. choses, for the most

> part, to be with all of us most of the time. If he

> wants to be alone, we don't force the issue. Of

> course, he is only 10, not a teenager, so those

> years will be interesting I'm sure, and I'm in the

> beginning phase of it with my NT son who turns 12

> next Monday (the mouthing off issues).

> PAULA - Peoria IL

>

> -- " angelndragon03 " <blueblazer_16201@...>

> wrote:

>

> Before Mike was diognosed he would live in his

> bedroom, playing

> gameboy or gamecube. The therapists have told us he

> needs to interact

> with others so we told him he could be in his room

> after his shower

> at night, during the day he had to be downstairs.

> Even if it was just

> watching tv, at least he was still with others.

> After the daycare

> kids left for the day we've told him he has to go

> outside to play,

> weather permitting. All of this has caused alot of

> problems in the

> last few months since he's hit 13. My other boys

> spend alot of time

> in their rooms, but they also have an active social

> life. When we

> make Mike go outside, he sits. Nothing else, just

> sits. Should I just

> say the heck with it and let him stay in his room if

> he wants? I

> could limit the use of the gamegear, but he still

> has the tv. He

> shares the third floor with my 15y/o son, we put a

> wall up to divide

> the space so they could each have a room, but it's

> so stinkin hot up

> there in the summer, the air conditioner helps some

> but not much. I

> really don't want him holed up by himself, but I'm

> also tired of all

> the arguing. He says we're to 'restrictive' with

> him, just this

> morning we got into it, he said he did his teeth, I

> didn't see him do

> them. Did the sniff test, didn't smell toothpaste,

> made him do it

> again. He got VERY angry, I told him he was acting

> like a 1y/o, he

> told me to shut up. He's never talked to me like

> that before, he got

> smacked in the mouth for it. He said we never

> believe him, but when I

> try to explain why we don't (his lying) he just

> tunes me out. This

> all happened about an hour ago, he's acting like

> nothing happened

> now. I just don't know what to do anymore, I feel if

> I let him stay

> in his room I'm giving up on him somehow, but if I

> make him stay

> downstairs I feel like I'm being to hard on him

> somehow. Does that

> make any sense? ARGGGG!!!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________

> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

> Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.

> Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!

>

" Insanity runs in my family. It practically gallops. "

Cary Grant

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I think this is one of those things where kids on the spectrum are

opposite. Some don't like to talk while others won't shut up. Some

are hyperactive while others are dreamers.

I am aspergers and as a kid I always wanted to be outside. I spent

my summers riding my bicycle, climbing trees, watching the birds and

digging holes in the sand. This was my form of escape. Both my

autistic and asperger sons like to get out but in this heat, who

could blame them.

As a kid and even now as an adult, I have a hard time with making

myself shower and brush my teeth. It is a real internal struggle to

make myself do it. I love taking showers once I am in there but to

get there is a struggle. It has nothing to do with how I come across

to others and I make myself do it because I don't want to have dental

problems. Here is what the problem is. It is a struggle for

control. It feels like I am being challenged to do something I don't

want to do and to do it is like giving in to control. It is almost

like a dare. I won't brush my teeth and will show you I am fine

anyway (picture a kids with arms folded and stomping foot). I don't

know how better to describe it. I don't have any advice except to

just keep pushing and maybe even actually watching to make sure it is

done. If your child is like me, the stuggle never ends but as he

gets older, he will at least have enough knowledge of the

consequences to eventually make himself do it. I find if I give in

and skip a day, the struggle is harder to get back to it.

Consistency is key.

My asperger son had a hard time with this issue to. He would say he

would brush when he really didn't. If allowed, he would wear the

same shirt every day of the week. Getting him to take a shower was

difficult. As he started to go into puberty, things changed. All of

a sudden he was the absolute opposite when it comes to showering and

clothes. He became obsessive about showering wanting to take one

first thing in the morning every morning and at times wanting to mid-

day. We have a family of 7 with one bathroom so this is difficult.

He is very maticulous about his clothes wanting his shirt to match

his shoes etc. He wants to wear only the current styles or name

brands and can't stand it if he has lint or pet hair on his clothes.

I don't know if his focus on his appearance is more an OCD trait,

interest in girls or wanting to overcompensate for his social

deficits by his appearance.

>

> Makes perfect sense to me. We live on a lake, have a boat, jet ski

etc. My kids NEVER go out. They have told me , 'mom, you just have to

realize we are nerds and we don't like going outside.' Just a guess

but if he's like my boys I am sure the daycare kids overwhelm

him 'socially' and he needs down time alone to regroup. I may be

totally off base. I don't have any advice. I can just relate so well.

My boys are pasty white from being in the house all the time. At

least when they get older they won't be wrinkled or have to worry

about skin cancer...The teeth thing too. Boy they will lie about

brushing and bathing in a heartbeat.. Hard to comprehend sometimes

why they wouldn't just brush and bathe to keep the peace... Toni

> What should I do?

>

>

> Before Mike was diognosed he would live in his bedroom, playing

> gameboy or gamecube. The therapists have told us he needs to

interact

> with others so we told him he could be in his room after his

shower

> at night, during the day he had to be downstairs. Even if it was

just

> watching tv, at least he was still with others. After the daycare

> kids left for the day we've told him he has to go outside to

play,

> weather permitting. All of this has caused alot of problems in

the

> last few months since he's hit 13. My other boys spend alot of

time

> in their rooms, but they also have an active social life. When we

> make Mike go outside, he sits. Nothing else, just sits. Should I

just

> say the heck with it and let him stay in his room if he wants? I

> could limit the use of the gamegear, but he still has the tv. He

> shares the third floor with my 15y/o son, we put a wall up to

divide

> the space so they could each have a room, but it's so stinkin hot

up

> there in the summer, the air conditioner helps some but not much.

I

> really don't want him holed up by himself, but I'm also tired of

all

> the arguing. He says we're to 'restrictive' with him, just this

> morning we got into it, he said he did his teeth, I didn't see

him do

> them. Did the sniff test, didn't smell toothpaste, made him do it

> again. He got VERY angry, I told him he was acting like a 1y/o,

he

> told me to shut up. He's never talked to me like that before, he

got

> smacked in the mouth for it. He said we never believe him, but

when I

> try to explain why we don't (his lying) he just tunes me out.

This

> all happened about an hour ago, he's acting like nothing happened

> now. I just don't know what to do anymore, I feel if I let him

stay

> in his room I'm giving up on him somehow, but if I make him stay

> downstairs I feel like I'm being to hard on him somehow. Does

that

> make any sense? ARGGGG!!!

>

>

[Guest guest]

My sons are 12 and 17. My son , is the one with Aspergers and ADHD. He has always lacked social skills. He is also an avid chess player. He is recently hooked on an online chess game against real people online. This is good for him as he is really playing chess, not against a computer, but real people and he actually holds very small conversations with them. He knows the rules and that he can't give away any information about himself that would be personal, except his location that it is in the USA.

He has played people from around the world.

He never writes in email or IM or talks to anyone online. However, this chess game is good for him. He is on the school chess team and plays chess in real tournaments too, but he picked up this new game online just this summer.

School starts in just two weeks. WOW

in IL

[Guest guest]

Hi Lawrence,

My guess would be that it is the Kombucha that got in your vinegar

atomizer.....

Would recommend using finished KT instead of vinegar to start your

next batches and to protect them from mold. Usually people only use

vinegar when no finished KT is available.

Peace, Love and Harmony,

Bev

Manna International: Kombucha Information and Resources

Kombucha Manna Drops - Convenient, Safe, Effective, Easy to use.

Manna Green & White Tea Extract: Liquid Green Tea Drops

100% Certified Organic, Fair Traded, Ingredients: made and packaged

only in Glass.

http://KMI.mannainternational.com and http://mannainternational.com

>

> I have a situation and do not know what to do. This is what

> happened:

> I use Heinz distilled white vinegar when I make KT. I put a

> plastic atomizer in the bottle and spray all of the utensils and jars

> I use (after washing them first) as insurance against mold. After I

> pour in the cup of starter, I also put one shot of vinegar spray on

> top before I cover with a coffee filter.

> Today I just finished decanting my latest batch of KT and noticed

> a small clear jelly fish attached to the shank of the atomizer. Upon

> closer examination, I found a larger thicker jelly fish about the

> size of a half dollar at the bottom of the vinegar bottle. I

> intentionally use distilled white vinegar instead of apple cider

> vinegar because I thought white vinegar is not biologially active. I

> do not boil the white vinegar I use. I called the Heinz consumer

> hotline and was told that their distilled white vinegar is

> pasteurized. I thought using a pasteurized product was safe.

> Judging from the size of the jelly fish, I have been using this

> contamimated vinegar for a good number of brews. Yes, my KT is

> contaminated, but is it ok to drink? I have noticed that I cannot

> drink as much KT as I usually do. The flavor is ok but I seem to be

> satisfied with much less. Do I throw out all of the KT I just

> decanted? Do I throw out the scobys I used for this batch as well as

> all of the scobys in my scoby hotel? Throw out everything and start

> all over from scratch?

> What should I do?

> Lawrence Tenzer

>

[Guest guest]

i agree with bev, but will also add that i dont think you need to throw out your

KT.  in general, unless it has mold or tastes bad, i consider it safe to drink.

 it is normal for your KT consumption to vary with your body needs.

dl

 

________________________________

From: lawrencetenzer <ltenzer@...>

kombucha tea

Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 1:08:36 PM

Subject: What Should I Do?

I have a situation and do not know what to do. This is what

happened:

I use Heinz distilled white vinegar when I make KT. I put a

plastic atomizer in the bottle and spray all of the utensils and jars

I use (after washing them first) as insurance against mold. After I

pour in the cup of starter, I also put one shot of vinegar spray on

top before I cover with a coffee filter.

Today I just finished decanting my latest batch of KT and noticed

a small clear jelly fish attached to the shank of the atomizer. Upon

closer examination, I found a larger thicker jelly fish about the

size of a half dollar at the bottom of the vinegar bottle. I

intentionally use distilled white vinegar instead of apple cider

vinegar because I thought white vinegar is not biologially active. I

do not boil the white vinegar I use. I called the Heinz consumer

hotline and was told that their distilled white vinegar is

pasteurized. I thought using a pasteurized product was safe.

Judging from the size of the jelly fish, I have been using this

contamimated vinegar for a good number of brews. Yes, my KT is

contaminated, but is it ok to drink? I have noticed that I cannot

drink as much KT as I usually do. The flavor is ok but I seem to be

satisfied with much less. Do I throw out all of the KT I just

decanted? Do I throw out the scobys I used for this batch as well as

all of the scobys in my scoby hotel? Throw out everything and start

all over from scratch?

What should I do?

Lawrence Tenzer