Re: The UK has more obese women than any other country in Europe

[Guest guest]

Thanks. That's a long article. I'll have a look through it again.

Miriam

> i think there may be some references in the deiodinase link i posted the other

day ..here it is again:

>

> http://nahypothyroidism.org/deiodinases/

[Guest guest]

That leaves me with a dilemma then. I have to follow a pretty low carb diet

because otherwise I have problems with fluctuating blood sugar levels.

Miriam

>

> Although I have no article to prove it, I did Atkins for three years on about

20 - 40 carbs a day. After three years I gave up because it was too hard with

me feeling and being not well. It seems it was then that I stopped or slowed

down the conversion to T3. I was fine on thyroxine until then. When I had a

private blood test done at the bottom it gave a list of things that can cause

conversion to stop. I knew I didn't have the other things listed and the only

other thing was 'malnutrition or being on a strict diet' or words to that

effect.

[Guest guest]

I do have some anecdotal evidence to the contrary. One of our members here in

Bristol has to follow a low carb diet in order to feel well. She is doing fine

on Armour, so it can't be interfering with her conversion.

Although I put on a stone when I followed a low carb diet, my health was better

than it has been since I relaxed the diet, even though I wasn't treating my

hypothyroidism then.

Also, did all Eskimos have T4 to T3 conversion problems in the olden days when

they followed a mainly meat/fat diet? There is probably more to this question

than meets the eye.

Miriam

> Although I have no article to prove it, I did Atkins for three years on about

20 - 40 carbs a day. After three years I gave up because it was too hard with

me feeling and being not well.

[Guest guest]

Although this article says a low calorie diet can adversely affect T4 to T3

conversion, it does not say anything about low carb diets. In fact, as it lists

insulin resistance and diabetes as factors which reduce T4 to T3 conversion, a

low carb diet might be expected to mitigate these factors. So it is implying

pretty much the opposite of saying that low carb diets hinder T4 to T3

conversion.

Here is their list of factors:

" physiologic and emotional stress (11-22); depression (23-45); dieting (46-51);

weight gain and leptin resistance (47-91); insulin resistance, obesity and

diabetes (91-99); inflammation from autoimmune disease or systemic illness

(11,100,102-115); chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia (121-125); chronic

pain (116-120); and exposure to toxins and plastics (126-134). In the presences

of such conditions there are reduced tissue levels of active thyroid in all

tissues except the pituitary. The reduced thyroid tissue levels with these

conditions is often quoted as a beneficial response that lowers metabolism and

thus does not require treatment, but there is no evidence to support such a

stance while there is significant evidence demonstrating it is a detrimental

response (135-142). "

" In addition, D1 activity is also lower in females (143,144), making women more

prone to tissue hypothyroidism, with resultant depression, fatigue,

fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, and obesity despite having normal TSH

levels. "

The last paragraph says that simply by being a woman we are more likely to have

problems converting T4 to T3! :-(

Miriam

> i think there may be some references in the deiodinase link i posted the other

day ..here it is again:

>

> http://nahypothyroidism.org/deiodinases/

[Guest guest]

> We need to be able to feel supported on this forum - we don;t need to be

confrontational and I did not feel that I had been.

no i didn't think you were being confrontational either!

> No hard feelings - eh.

no of course not ...i'm a bit baffled by your post to be honest!

my original post (that you replied to) was addressed to mandy who seemed to be

saying in reply to jot that diet wasn't involved in her weight loss/continuing

weight loss and that her weight loss was down to getting the adrenal/thyroid

hormones fixed ...i was querying the veracity of that because mandy had been on

the hcg diet.

>Fruit and veg is cheap enough and you can buy supermarket value chicken and

fish - it is the time it takes to prepare a meal - I don't have a family so

would not presume to comment.

i didn't understand what you were getting at with regard to the above statement

....it seemed a bit *random* that's all.

trish

> >

> >

>

>

>

> Hi Trish - ok look at the risk of this turning into something unecessary- I

apologise for having not written the phrase properly - of course it does not

take time to prep and cook from scratch - that is what I do - and advocate it -

I know that some people say that for whatever reasons - family etc etc they may

not have time - I was trying to avoid offending and in doing so - well ...

> As for the hCG diet - well last year unmedicated and very unwell I would not

have considered it - when I started to feel gradually better I did and whatever

my cal count was etc, I honestly don't remember - it just did work and I did

lose weight and felt better for it.

>

> We need to be able to feel supported on this forum - we don;t need to be

confrontational and I did not feel that I had been.

>

> So, in the spirit of sharing a common bond which is why we are on this forum -

I once again apologise for not having read my message to check for accuracy

before posting.

> No hard feelings - eh.

>

[Guest guest]

hi miriam

> I do have some anecdotal evidence to the contrary. One of our members here in

Bristol has to follow a low carb diet in order to feel well. She is doing fine

on Armour, so it can't be interfering with her conversion.

but armour has a good wack of t3 in it so the conversion issue wouldn't arise ?

regarding the eskimos ...i found this link interesting ...it makes sense in

terms of them eating the totality of the creatures they kill i.e. includes

thyroids

http://raypeat.com/articles/nutrition/oils-in-context.shtml

trish

[Guest guest]

> Actually it proves my point as your friend obviously needs the T3 in Armour

because she is not converting, otherwise she would be fine on thyroxine alone.

If she was converting properly she would not need to supplement with Armour

which contains T4 and T3. . . .

She hasn't tried thyroxine. Armour contains a certain amount of T4 so if you

have a conversion problem you might become T4 toxic on Armour, depending on how

bad the problem is.

> Eskimos might have evolved into being able to eat very low carb and not stop

converting. . . .

I think that's unlikely. For example, the explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson did a

supervised experiment following the Eskimo diet for a year and his health was

better at the end of it than at the beginning.

http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm

> Just my theory on my own experience and it could be if I had been on some

other diet it would still have happened. . . .

Yes, it is interesting to try and match up experience with what theories

predict.

>On the bottom of my test results it didn't say the cause was low carb, it said

the cause was malnutrition (dieting), but the malnutrition might be because my

body does not absorb the nutrition. I know it doesn't absorb iron well. I

thought the Atkins diet was very highly nutritious so that was what surprised me

with the test results. . . .

Yes, I had a similar experience and it turned out to be lack of hydrochloric

acid in the stomach, and generally poor absorption, probably caused by the

hypothyroidism.

Miriam

[Guest guest]

The origin of that advice is from the early 1970s when they decided

(erroneously) that fats led to high cholesterol and caused heart disease. If

you want to leave out all fat-containing foods then you have to eat more

carbohydrate instead. No-one ever did the experiment to see whether a

carbohydrate-based diet was healthy.

Miriam

> I wonder if that is the reason diabetes charities, medics, nurses and even

dieticians, say you must base your meals - when diabetic - on carbs.

[Guest guest]

This article lists so many things that can cause conversion problems. It may

not have been anything to do with the diabetes. Who doesn't have exposure to

environmental toxins and plastics? They say you can have a conversion problem

just because you are a woman!

" physical or emotional stress; depression; dieting; weight gain and leptin

resistance; insulin resistance, obesity and diabetes); inflammation from

autoimmune disease or systemic illness; chronic fatigue syndrome and

fibromyalgia; chronic pain; and exposure to toxins and plastics (126-134). "

Miriam

> So if it was the diabetes that caused it, surely it would have caused it when

it was at its worst and they were going to put me on insulin.

[Guest guest]

Because Armour contains both T4 and T3 people can have a conversion problem that

prevents them from doing well on it. They might accumulate too much T4 while

trying to get enough T3. This is why some people on this group have to take T3

only, or take T4 and T3 separately so they can fine tune the amounts of each.

Thanks for the interesting article by Ray Peat.

Miriam

> but armour has a good wack of t3 in it so the conversion issue wouldn't arise

?

>

> regarding the eskimos ...i found this link interesting ...it makes sense in

terms of them eating the totality of the creatures they kill i.e. includes

thyroids

>

> http://raypeat.com/articles/nutrition/oils-in-context.shtml

[Guest guest]

We need to take in Fat, Protein AND Carbohydrate plus fibre.

We need to eat HEALTHY carbohydrates and that is the difference in our diet these days; we think carbs are the problem but it is REFINED carbs such as refined sugars, cakes, pastries etc., are the problem not all carbs are refined, they occur naturally in good foods such as Oats and vegetables. DITCH ALL REFINED/PROCESSED FOODS.

The same thing happened with Fats and people stoppped eating fats but indeed we need fats in our diet BUT similarly NOT REFINED fats. So fats in nuts are good, fats in margarines are bad.

Many people think you can only get protein from meat or flesh; that is not so, vegetables are generally a combination of protein, carbohydrates and fats, in different quantities (and fibre of course) Animal flesh is only protein and fat and the fibre and carbohydrates are missing. If your diet is dominant in meat it is an unhealthy diet. Eskimos have little choice, but they leave their meat until it is broken down by its own enzymes before eating it; that is they dont eat their meat fresh as we do. This way their body is able to cope with it diet. We dont tend to eat rotting flesh and many would not dare, however, this is a much better way of eating flesh if we have to. However, our body is not designed for a diet of meat, since we require to take in Vitamin c in our diet. Most mammals make their own Vitamin C; they are naturally meat eating animals. We should eat little meat with a

vegetable and fruit dominant diet, to be healthy.

The only think we dont get from a fully vegetarian diet is Vitamin B12. We need very little B12 and further our body can store Viotamin B12 for up to 5/6years. Vitamin C on the other hand is excreted from our body within 4-5hours and MUST be replaced. Therefore you must eat good vegetables and fruit every 4-5hours to compensate for this., The only animals that do not have the capacity to make Vitamin C are all vegetarians, i.e. fruit eating bats and hamster oh and humans.

If you have a health issue of any sort or your have a weight problem; even if you put it down to your thyroid dysfunction, you should take the time and trouble to learn about food stuffs. Understanding exactly what is good and what is bad is essential to a good healthy diet. We are what we eat; that is good food in then generally good body function out; bad food in then generally bad body function out. (

Yes, everyone can quote an exception; my mother-in-law is 94 and smoked cigarettes from the age of 13years. ... she is an exception; she has longevity in her genes her sister is 98 and living alone, she still does a little bit of gardening too! We are not all that fortunate.)

Eating fresh (organic if possible) food which you prepare and cook (if you cook your food) prior to eating is the way to go. If you buy packet food then dont call it food, since it is not food it is a chemical experiment; that is you don't know what effect it will have upon your body; your body doesnt like chemicals it likes good wholesome fresh natural foods......anything else you put into your body is likely to cause problems either immediately or slowly over time, including disorder, weight gain and disease.

Hippocrates said all disease has its origin in the gut......soooo true.

[Guest guest]

Sally

This is a great post. I so agree with you in respect of refined or unrefined

carbs in particular.

I just wont have any white (processed) grains or flour of any description in my

house, and havent done for many years !

Same goes for organic fruits and veg too. Makes me hoot when people say organic

is too expensive but will happily spend lots of cash of processed junk.

I have always adhered to the 'wholefood/organic' diet and find it to be

naturally weight regulating and energy giving. Being vegan helps too, though I

chose that way of life for compassionate reasons and the health benefits are

really spin offs for me.

I think if people could just remember to choose food which as close to natural

as possible and always organic !

I dont believe my weekly bill is any higher than non veggies and I have read

lots of evidence that many diseases can be prevented by this approach to

nutritional therapy.

Unfortunately thyroid disease is'nt one of them though esspecially if it tends

to run through families, as it does mine.

Cheers

>

> We need to take in Fat, Protein AND Carbohydrate plus fibre.

>  

> We need to eat HEALTHY carbohydrates and that is the difference in our diet

these days; we think carbs are the problem but it is REFINED carbs such as

refined sugars, cakes, pastries etc., are the problem not all carbs are refined,

they occur naturally in good foods such as Oats and vegetables.  DITCH ALL

REFINED/PROCESSED FOODS.

>  

[Guest guest]

Such a good post Sally, thank you for taking the time to condense such good

info.

May I recommend 'green smoothies' as a start to any day, they are very filling,

fibrous and cheap as chips, even using organic greens. Google search green

smoothies for thousands of recipes. They help with digestive enzymes, something

I am becoming very aware of and loved the Hippocrates quote.

Oh and I am now thinking that when we have put on weight, it is our body working

'perfectly' to surround any toxic processed produce with fat and excess fluid to

dilute the poison from these processed foods.

I think the liver says to itself, " whats this muck " - the body cant use it for

nutrition, and tries to dilute the toxins with fluid and wrap them in fat to

protect the organs from absorbing this stuff.

Daily green smoothies are cheap and very filing and eating lots of fresh veggies

with some protein is cheap as when your body is actually being fed it is not

hungry and only when 'foodless' food is eaten is the body not nourished and

requires more.

Green smoothie basic: Leaves of spinach or kale (cut out stalk) bananas, water

- blend. looks like algae but tastes like banana.

If I add passion fruit and a splosh of lemon - its nectar of the Gods.

Friends put in honey and yoghurt - so many combinations to experiment with and

fill you up with nourishing food. Often having one of these in the morning fills

you up until the evening when we can have more fresh vegies/salad with some

protein.

Blending the greens breaks down all the vital enzymes and gets right into the

system really quickly - yummo

F

>

> We need to take in Fat, Protein AND Carbohydrate plus fibre.

> �

> We need to eat HEALTHY carbohydrates and that is the difference in our diet

these days; we think carbs are the problem but it is REFINED carbs such as

refined sugars, cakes, pastries etc., are the problem not all carbs are refined,

they occur naturally in good foods such as Oats and vegetables.� DITCH ALL

REFINED/PROCESSED FOODS.

> �

> The same thing happened with Fats and people stoppped eating fats but indeed

we need fats in our diet BUT similarly NOT REFINED fats.� So fats in nuts are

good, fats in margarines are bad.

> �

> Many people think you can only get protein from meat or flesh; that is not so,

vegetables are generally a combination of protein, carbohydrates and fats, in

different quantities (and fibre of course)� Animal flesh is only protein and

fat and the fibre and carbohydrates are missing.� If your diet is dominant in

meat it is an unhealthy diet.� Eskimos have little choice, but they leave

their meat until it is broken down by its own enzymes before eating it; that is

they dont eat their meat fresh as we do.� This way their body is able to cope

with it diet.� We dont tend to eat rotting flesh and many would not dare,

however, this is a much better way of eating flesh if we have to.� However,

our body is not designed for a diet of meat, since we require to take in Vitamin

c in our diet.� Most mammals make their own Vitamin C; they are naturally meat

eating animals.� We should eat little meat with a vegetable and fruit dominant

diet, to be healthy.

> �

> The only think we dont get from a fully vegetarian diet is Vitamin B12.� We

need very little B12 and further our body can store Viotamin B12 for up to

5/6years.� Vitamin C on the other hand is excreted from our body within

4-5hours and MUST be replaced.� Therefore you must eat good vegetables and

fruit every 4-5hours to compensate for this.,� The only animals that do not

have the capacity to make Vitamin C are all vegetarians, i.e. fruit eating bats

and hamster oh and humans.

> �

> If you have a health issue of any sort or your have a weight problem; even if

you put it down to your thyroid dysfunction, you should take the time and

trouble to learn about food stuffs.� Understanding exactly what is good and

what is bad is essential to a good healthy diet.� We are what we eat; that is

good food in then generally good body function out; bad food in then generally

bad body function out.� (

> Yes, everyone can quote an exception; my mother-in-law is 94 and smoked

cigarettes from the age of 13years.� ...��she is an exception; she has

longevity in her genes her sister is 98 and living alone, she still does a

little bit of gardening too!� We are not all that fortunate.)�

> �

> Eating fresh (organic if possible) food which you prepare and cook (if you

cook your food) prior to eating is the way to go.� If you buy packet food then

dont call it food, since it is not food it is a chemical experiment; that is you

don't know what effect it will have upon your body; your body doesnt like

chemicals it likes good wholesome fresh natural foods......anything else you put

into your body is likely to cause problems either immediately or slowly over

time, including disorder, weight gain and disease.

> �

> Hippocrates said all disease has its origin in the gut......soooo true.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you F for your comments on my post. Thank you also for making my mouth water! tehe.

I agree with you, about the good foods satiating our appetite, since they are full of nutrients the body needs and so satisfy the appetite.

We get hungry because we need fuel for our body to function not simply to shove any old rubbish into the fuel tank but specific foods which the body requires to maintain our healthy body function. It is also true that when taking good vitamin and mineral supplements alongside digestive enzymes and HCL (no matter how we get it), we will feel more satiated then. I am not advocating using supplements instead of food, however, I would point out that when we are ill it seems we are starting from a negative position and whilst eating good wholesome fresh organic foods is important, hypothyroids particularly need additional boost through good supplements and intelligent supplementation.

Hypothyroids will actually be suffering a degree of malnutrition, if their disorder has been ongoing for some time. This is because Hypothryoids have a problem with absorption of nutrients, e.g. low B12 levels due to low HCL in the stomach. These things have a knock on effect throughout the gut.

As you say F, there is much information out there on the net and also many good cooking programmes on TV if an imagination boost is required.

Preparing your own food to eat and feed your loved ones can be fun and doesnt have to be so time consuming. How much more appetising is good freshly prepared food to microwave and packet 'stuff'?

Smoothies are a wonderful way of getting extra veg and fruit into your body. Even kids like smoothies and homemade smoothies can be fun to make with the kids too, this encourages both the kids and the adults to make and eat/drink them. (shop bought ones are not the same, as food once cut into will loose some of its vitamins and minerals and water content and very quickly deteriorate.

Remember to buy local in season foods, if you have a problem with supply then frozen and tinned CAN be useful to fall back on, but try to get used to having strawberries in June and July rather than all year round, and find a substitute other in season fruit during the other months. etc.

If anyone thinks using a good moisturiser and taking a pill is important but they dont drink water or eat good foods then they truly are barking up the wrong tree and in time will suffer health problems as a consequence.

So taking thyroid supplement IS important the right one at the right dose, but do consider your eating habits and lifestyle too; these are just as important to regaining your health.