Natural dessicated thyroid...

[Guest guest]

Hi group,

I am currently taking the synthetic thyroxin and want to switch to the natural

dessicated one. My GP will supervise me but will only agree to the TSH blood

test not the free T3 and T4. I have a raised TSH of 8 which is lowered

regularly by homeopathic treatment. I have found over the years the more

synthetic I take (as my GP is always trying to increse the prescription) the

higher the TSH goes but if i take the minimum 25/50 mcg per day and top it up

with homeopathy the TSH will drop. My question is can i start the natural

dessicated one without having the T3 & T4 blood tests done, can the T3 and T4

only be measured by a blood test or is there another way of testing it...urine

or saliva test? I looked into the natural dessicated one back in March this

year is it still available and have there been any changes in the natural ones?

Many thanks

Liz

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz

It is absolutely ridiculous that doctors insist ONLY on the TSH test

- it is a well known fact that TSH testing only is massively controversial. I

would be tempted to write to your GP setting out the following:

Thyroid

function blood test results can be influenced by many factors, any of

which should be taken into consideration, e.g.

·

Labelling

errors

·

Bacterial

contamination

·

Yeast/Fungal

contamination

·

Clotting

·

Sampling

errors

·

Sample

preparation errors

·

Sample

storage errors

·

Thermal

cycling

·

Antithyroid

antibodies (any)

·

Antibodies

from any other cause

·

Presence

of specific ‘toxins’ in the blood

·

Presence

of pharmaceutical drugs (interferences) within the blood

·

The

method of analysis being carried out eg radio-immune assay (RIA)

·

‘Systematic’

errors in analytical equipment or methodology

·

Composite

errors <> pre-analysis (not mentioned above)

·

MCT8

mutations

It is also known

that thyroid function tests will be normal also in patients who have a proven

carcinoma. The T4 and TSH value can be misleading in such cases.

Many

individuals with classic symptoms of hypothyroidism, such as low body

temperature, joint pain, fatigue and depression, are discouraged when

they’re told that their thyroid hormone levels are within the normal

range. The question of whether they might be resistant to their body’s

own thyroid hormone is seldom considered. Yet, a disease known as thyroid

hormone resistance or Euthyroid Hypometabolism (EH) can prevent thyroid

hormone from reaching the body’s cells. ). Mainstream medicine has

yet to recognise the pervasiveness of EH. EH is defined as

peripheral resistance to thyroid hormones at the cellular level. It is not due

to a lack of thyroid hormones. Normal amounts of TH and TSH are usually

detected by blood tests; blood tests do not detect EH which is usually

inherited. Environmental toxins may cause or exacerbate the problem.

Also,

the discovery of MCT8 mutations explains laboratory discrepancies e.g. cases in

which the lab results didn’t fit a particular pattern. It also

explains how thyroid hormone resistance can cause TSH to appear normal even

with a low FT4. In many instances only the TSH test is performed. If the

TSH result is normal, and symptoms of hypothyroidism should be observed, tests

for FT4, FT3 and T3 should all be performed as should tests for thyroid

antibodies (TPA and TgAb).

None

of these types of error are ever shown as being part of the reference range,

but they all add to the unquantifiable ‘unreliability’ of the final

number that appears on a lab report; stated to be within/outside a reference

range. The labs expect, but often don’t get, notification of antibodies

found by other labs or by investigations showing antibody activity, to

enable proper screening for likely errors. e.g. vitiligo, alopecia, ongoing

autoimmune symptoms specific to such as lupus, autoimmune attacks on specific organs,

histology samples, haematological examinations.(2) A search on Pubmed

shows 126 such cases.

Having

a raised TSH of 8 shows that you are not on the correct thyroid dose and

probably not on the correct thyroid hormone.

Yes,

you can start natural desiccated thyroid extract without having the T3 and T4

blood tests done, as you can without having your TSH level checked. When you

are on any T3 thyroid hormone replacement, either synthetic or natural, there

is absolutely no point in having ANY serum thyroid function tests done. This is

because the results are likely to be flawed, because T3 has such a short half

life and it peaks in the blood a couple or so hours after taking it. We

recommend our members to stop their thyroid hormone the night before getting

their blood drawn for thyroid function testing. This gives a low reading of

what is actually going on, but if you take any thyroid hormone on the morning

of the blood drawn the results can be very high in the range, because of the T3

spike in the blood, and then the doctor gets very alarmed, telling his patient

s/he must decrease his dose immediately, or stop any form of T3 whatsoever, and

to go back onto levothyroxine-only. I have seen more damage done to patients by

doctors not understanding how T4 and T3 works in the body and this is

appalling.

Both

free T4 and free T3 can be tested in isolation through the 24 hour urine test.

This doesn't test the level of thyroid hormone in the blood, which is useless,

it tests the level of t4 and T3 that has been used by the cells during the past

24 hours - and this is the true test. You can get this test done through Genova

Diagnostics and by being a TPA member, you can get a discount into the bargain.

Go

to our Files section accessible from the Home Page of this forum in the Menu http://health./group.thyroid treatment

and on the page that opens, scroll down through the FOLDERS to the one entitled

'Discounts on Tests and Supplements' and on that page, open the 'Genova

Diagnostics' document and follow the instructions from there. You have to write

'Thyroid Patient Advocacy' as your Practitioner, but the results will go direct

to you,. When you receive them, post the results on to this forum together with

the reference range, and we will be able to help with their interpretation.

Whilst

in the FILES SECTION, click on the FOLDER entitled 'Internet Pharmacies' and

there you will find a list of reputable companies where you can buy natural

thyroid extract without the need of a prescription. The brands that the MHRA

say they are happy for doctors to prescribe are Armour Thyroid, Erfa 'Thyroid'

Nature Throid and Westhroid. However, you will see that there are also some

generic natural thyroid extracts, and we have had it reported that all of these

appear to work equally well for most people. However, I would warn that Forest

Pharmaceuticals (the manufacturers of Armour) are no longer shipping to the UK

or Europe and this has now come into effect, though you may be able to still

purchase it through the Internet Pharmacies.

Hope

this helps.

Luv

- Sheila

I am currently taking the synthetic thyroxin and want to switch to the natural

dessicated one. My GP will supervise me but will only agree to the TSH blood

test not the free T3 and T4. I have a raised TSH of 8 which is lowered regularly

by homeopathic treatment. I have found over the years the more synthetic I take

(as my GP is always trying to increse the prescription) the higher the TSH goes

but if i take the minimum 25/50 mcg per day and top it up with homeopathy the

TSH will drop. My question is can i start the natural dessicated one without

having the T3 & T4 blood tests done, can the T3 and T4 only be measured by

a blood test or is there another way of testing it...urine or saliva test? I

looked into the natural dessicated one back in March this year is it still

available and have there been any changes in the natural ones?

Many thanks

Liz

[Guest guest]

Hello Liz,

I am currently taking the synthetic thyroxin and want to switch to the natural desiccated one. My GP will supervise me but will only agree to the TSH blood test not the free T3 and T4. I have a raised TSH of 8 which is lowered regularly by homeopathic treatment. I have found over the years the more synthetic I take (as my GP is always trying to increase the prescription) the higher the TSH goes but if i take the minimum 25/50 mcg per day and top it up with homeopathy the TSH will drop.

I do not doubt that your TSH may be fluctuating, but I suspect that this fluctuation has less to do with any homeopathic remedies than with the very likely presence of thyroid auto-antibodies. Please ask your GP to order a thyroid antibody check – TPO and TgAB.

If you have a TSH of 8, then you are hypothyroid. The only question remaining is whether your low thyroid is a result of an autoimmune condition (Hashimoto's disease) or has a non-autoimmune origin. Bar a couple of extremely rare illnesses, the ONLY known condition that will raise the TSH above the ref range is hypothyroidism. Non-thyroid illnesses (NTI's for short) or certain medication can influence the FT3 and FT4 upwards or downwards ... but not the TSH. To the best of my knowledge, the TSH – once risen above the ref range – will only (erroneously and temporarily) fluctuate downwards as a result of interfering thyroid auto-antibodies... either TPO, TgAB or TSI.

My question is can i start the natural desiccated one without having the T3 & T4 blood tests done,

Yes, not a problem. To do a TSH alone would be a waste of time anyway. Once you are on a decent dose of natural thyroid your TSH will be suppressed and stay suppressed. This may frighten your GP, but it is perfectly normal and does in no way indicate over-medication. The only worry of overmedication (and therefore induced hyperthyroidism) would be if both the FT4 and FT3 were elevated significantly above the upper limit of the ref range.

When taking NDT (natural desiccated thyroid) blood tests are not really necessary. Your own body is a much better indicator than any blood test. Your body will tell you loud and clear when you have reached your optimal dosage. You just have to learn the signs and listen to your body.

can the T3 and T4 only be measured by a blood test or is there another way of testing it...urine or saliva test?

There is a 24 hour urinary thyroid test which is much more accurate than any blood test, but it is not NHS approved and you would have to do it privately... it costs around £ 100 though and is not really necessary just to check the thyroid levels when medicating with NDT. Nobody in his or her right mind would knowingly overdose on thyroid hormone. Getting hyperthyroid feels a whole lot worse than feeling hypothyroid.

I looked into the natural desiccated one back in March this year is it still available and have there been any changes in the natural ones?Yes, it is available. You can choose between several makes – Armour, Erfa, Naturethroid, Thyroid-S and Thiroyd.....and you can buy it without prescription on the internet. And yes, there have been slight changes – Armour changed their formulation a couple of years ago, and I think Naturethroid made some recent changes too.

With best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz, nearly all hormones fluctuate. especially the TSH which is one of the reasons it should not be relied on. TSH is higher at night and lower in the morning. have the research some where on computer, but will try to post it up sometime. Angel.

[Guest guest]

Many thanks Sheila and

Bw

Liz

[Guest guest]

thanks Angel...sorry this is so late!

>

> Hi Liz, nearly all hormones fluctuate. especially the TSH which is one of the

reasons it should not be relied on. TSH is higher at night and lower in the

morning.

>  have the research some where on computer, but will try to post it up

sometime. Angel.

>