Can anyone offer any input/suggestions/own experience etc etc?

[Guest guest]

Without boring everyone, since 2004 and diagnosis of hypothyroidism, I have been

prescribed T4 levothyroxine. Dosage quickly went from 50mg to 200mg daily, and

level of prescription is (as usual with GP's) based on blood test results, and I

have yo-yo'd between 175mg and 200mg up-down, up-down, for seven years.

Constantly, I have maintained to my GP throughout, that I still didn't feel

'myself', and despite this, and private consultations paid for by BUPA, nothing

has changed, the answer always " that's just the way it is with this illness,

it's treated with T4, and your blood tests show all is fine " .

Finally, recently, lost my patience. I wrote to my GP, insisted on an

immediate appointment to discuss the issue, and specifically a more in-depth

look at my treatment.

As a result, having told me for four years that T3 was under no circumstances

used or prescribed in the East Angia region, having insisted they write to the

regional PCT to confirm this, the reply confirmed that T3 WAS is fact available.

Having again consulted privately, rather than through my GP, fully synthetic

Liothyronine T3 was prescribed. I decided that I wouldn't take the drug, until

I had established my T3 conversion level.

Again, cutting a long story short, and with huge amounts of personal pressure

from me to get them to do something, even though the labs needed three attempts

to actually carry out a T3 conversion test on the blood they had (each time it

was sent, they said it wasn't necessary as my T4 (25.9) and TSH (0.05) were

wihtin acceptable range), a T3 conversion test was carried out, and with the

result in on Thursday illustrating a reading of 4.9, I have started taking the

T3 (60mg daily) with 100mg of T4.

My question to whoever wants to contribute are:

1. I'd really like to know stories, and hear views from people who have taken

either T3 alone, and/or T4 and T3 together, and in what quantities?

2. Had anyone suffered any side effects? (I seem to have a tight stomach, and

possibly a bit of wind!!)

I would be very grateful for all comment.

Matt

[Guest guest]

Well done you Matt.    I wish I had been as assertive, it might have saved me hundreds of pounds seeing a private doctor and buying my own medication.Finally the NHS (after 7 years of me buying my own), have come to the conclusion that I do need some T3.    However their prescription is 150mcg thyroxine and 20 mcg of T3.    I am really better on 100 mcg of thyroxine and 40 mcg of T3.     I am actually now buying as near the equivalent in Erfa.

I do not suffer any side effects taking T4/T3 or NDT.    I suffer when I am on Thyroxine alone, probably because I do not convert sufficiently.   I could also have a lazy pituitary because I have always had a low within  range TSH but T4 very low and T3 under range, which would normally produce a high TSH.     My tummy gets upset when I am not taking T3.

Lilian

My question to whoever wants to contribute are:

1. I'd really like to know stories, and hear views from people who have taken either T3 alone, and/or T4 and T3 together, and in what quantities?

2. Had anyone suffered any side effects? (I seem to have a tight stomach, and possibly a bit of wind!!)

I would be very grateful for all comment.

Matt

[Guest guest]

Matt,

Don't just take the 60 mcg straight off.... I guarantee it will make you fel

worse.....

The BNF says to start on 10 or 20 in a split dose and work up to 60 if needed.

Just downing 60 straight off isn't on..... and it definately needs to be in

split dose.

Start with something like 10 and 10 then do 20 and 10 and so on.

>

>t wasn't necessary as my T4 (25.9) and TSH (0.05) were wihtin acceptable

range), a T3 conversion test was carried out, and with the result in on Thursday

illustrating a reading of 4.9, I have started taking the T3 (60mg daily) with

100mg of T4.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for taking the trouble to send me a reply.

Basically, I was told to take 40mg in the morning, and 20mg in the evening. I

have been doing this since last week, and to be honest, I don't really feel

anything - good or bad!! This is alone with 100mg of the usual stuff,

levothyroxine.

What do you think?

May I ask your own experience?

Matt

> >

> >t wasn't necessary as my T4 (25.9) and TSH (0.05) were wihtin acceptable

range), a T3 conversion test was carried out, and with the result in on Thursday

illustrating a reading of 4.9, I have started taking the T3 (60mg daily) with

100mg of T4.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lilian!

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply. To be honest, I have been taking the

60mg of T3 liothyronine for a week, and actually feel no different!! I have

received a couple of kind responses, one of which suggesting that 60mg is too

much, and I should grade up from 10mg.

It's all so confusing!

Matt

>

> Well done you Matt. I wish I had been as assertive, it might have saved

> me hundreds of pounds seeing a private doctor and buying my own medication.

>

> Finally the NHS (after 7 years of me buying my own), have come to the

> conclusion that I do need some T3. However their prescription is 150mcg

> thyroxine and 20 mcg of T3. I am really better on 100 mcg of thyroxine

> and 40 mcg of T3. I am actually now buying as near the equivalent in

> Erfa.

>

> I do not suffer any side effects taking T4/T3 or NDT. I suffer when I am

> on Thyroxine alone, probably because I do not convert sufficiently. I

> could also have a lazy pituitary because I have always had a low within

> range TSH but T4 very low and T3 under range, which would normally produce

> a high TSH. My tummy gets upset when I am not taking T3.

>

> Lilian

>

>

> > My question to whoever wants to contribute are:

> >

> > 1. I'd really like to know stories, and hear views from people who have

> > taken either T3 alone, and/or T4 and T3 together, and in what quantities?

> >

> > 2. Had anyone suffered any side effects? (I seem to have a tight stomach,

> > and possibly a bit of wind!!)

> >

> > I would be very grateful for all comment.

> >

> > Matt

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Matt, I saw your previous message but

not got around to responding. I have been away on a few days vacation and came

back to tons of messages that I have been trying to get through.

A little about thyroxine and

triiodothyronine. Thyroxine is a pro-hormone, this means that it has little to

no action on its own, and it has to convert to the active thyroid hormone

triiodothyronine - or T3 for short. T3 is the ACTIVE thyroid hormone that needs

to get into every cell in the body and brain to make them function. There are

many associated conditions that go along with being hypothyroid that stop

either of the thyroid hormones from working, but before going into that, you

should realise that thyroxine has a long half life of 1 week and takes up to 6

weeks to be fully utilised by the body and the same time to leave the body

completely. It converts through the liver, kidneys, brain, skin and other

thyroid hormone receptors throughout the body. T3 on the other hand has a very

short half life and it peaks in the blood between 2 to 4 hours after taking it.

The effect starts to leave the body after about 6 to 8 hours, so it is always

recommended you split the dose twice, sometimes three times so you always 'keep

the engine topped up'.

However, when adding T3,

whatever the dose, it is always recommended to lower the levothyroxine by 50

mcgs and to get your blood tested 6 weeks after starting the new medication

regime. However, before your blood draw for the test, please make sure that you

have not taken any thyroid hormone replacement that morning, otherwise the

results could show a flawed result, with your free T3 being very high in the

range, often frightening your GP so much he will cut down your dose of T3, or

even tell you to stop it. Again, this is because T3 peaks in the blood quite

quickly after taking it.

You need, however, to find out

exactly WHY taking 60mcgs T3 (not mgs btw) and 100mcgs T4 is not making any

difference to you. Check through the following to ensure you are not suffering

with any of these by way of a process of elimination.

There are MANY reasons and many

medical conditions associated with thyroid disease that stop thyroid hormone

from getting into the cells, where it does its work. I mention these over and

over and over again - ad nauseum - people must be bored with the same old

stuff, but as each new member joins us, they need to know about these.

The main condition responsible

for stopping thyroid hormone from working is, quite simply, a patient’s

thyroxine dose is too low because the doctor or consultant refuses to increase

it, because the serum thyroid function test results appear OK. Sometimes, the

thyroxine dose is too high, yet patients still don't feel well. They continue

to suffer. Some reasons for this:

They may be suffering with low

adrenal reserve. The production of T4, its conversion to T3, and the receptor

uptake requires a normal amount of adrenal hormones, notably, of course,

cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut production down, however.) This is what

happens if the adrenals are not responding properly, and provision of cortisone

usually switches it on again. But sometimes it doesn’t. If

the illness has been going on for a long time, the enzyme seems to fail.

This conversion failure (inexplicably denied by many endocrinologists) means

the thyroxine builds up, unconverted. So it doesn’t work, and T4

toxicosis results. This makes the patient feel quite unwell, toxic, often with

palpitations and chest pain. If provision of adrenal support doesn’t

remedy the situation, the final solution is the use of the active thyroid

hormone, already converted, T3 - either synthetic or natural.

Then, we have systemic

candidiasis. This is where candida albicans, yeast, which causes skin

infections almost anywhere in the body, invades the lining of the lower part of

the small intestine and the large intestine. Here, the candida sets up

residence in the warmth and the dark, and demands to be fed. Loving

sugars and starches, candida can make you suffer terrible sweet cravings.

Candida can produce toxins which can cause very many symptoms of exhaustion,

headache, general illness, and which interfere with the uptake of thyroid and

adrenal treatment. Sometimes the levels - which we usually test for - can

be very high, and make successful treatment difficult to achieve until

adequately treated.

Then there is receptor

resistance which could be a culprit. Being hypothyroid for some considerable

time may mean the biochemical mechanisms which permit the binding of T3 to the

receptors, is downgraded - so the T3 won’t go in. With slow build

up of T3, with full adrenal support and adequate vitamins and minerals, the

receptors do come on line again. But this can be quite a slow process,

and care has to be taken to build the dose up gradually.

And then there are Food

allergies. The most common food allergy is allergy to gluten, the protein

fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by the body, by a process of

molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme, (which makes

thyroxine) and shuts it down. So allergy to bread can make you

hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies with this kind of effect, but

information on these is scanty. Certainly allergic response to certain

foods can affect adrenal function and imperil thyroid production and uptake.

Then we have hormone

imbalances. The whole of the endocrine system is linked; each part of it needs

the other parts to be operating normally to work properly. An example of

this we have seen already, with cortisone. But another example is the

operation of sex hormones. The imbalance that occurs at the menopause

with progesterone running down, and a relative dominance of oestrogen is a

further case in point – oestrogen dominance downgrades production,

transportation and uptake of thyroid hormones. This is why hypothyroidism

may first appear at the menopause; the symptoms ascribed to this alone, which

is then treated – often with extra oestrogen, making the whole thing

worse. Deficiency in progesterone most especially needs to be dealt with,

since it reverses oestrogen dominance, improves many menopausal symptoms like

sweats and mood swings, and reverses osteoporosis. Happily natural

progesterone cream is easily obtained: when used it has the added benefit of

helping to stabilise adrenal function.

Then, we must never forget the

possibility of mercury poisoning (through amalgam fillings) - low levels of

iron, transferring saturation%, ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium,

folate, copper and zinc - all of which, if low, stop the thyroid hormone from

being utilised by the cells - these have to be treated. If you have not had

these tested, then please ask your GP to test these, and if he tries to tell

you that he doesn't know of any association between low levels of these and low

thyroid, then print off the attached document that shows just some of the

research and studies done to show that there is a connection.

As Dr Peatfield says " When

you have been quite unwell for a long time, all these problems have to be dealt

with; and since each may affect the other, it all has to be done rather

carefully.

Contrary to cherished beliefs

by much of the medical establishment, the correction of a thyroid deficiency

state has a number of complexities and variables, which make the treatment

usually quite specific for each person. The balancing of these variables

is as much up to you as to me – which is why a check of morning, day and

evening temperatures and pulse rates, together with symptoms, good and bad, can

be so helpful.

Many of you have been ill for a

long time, either because you have not been diagnosed, or the treatment leaves

you still quite unwell. Those of you who have relatively mild

hypothyroidism, and have been diagnosed relatively quickly, may well respond to

synthetic thyroxine, the standard treatment

For many of you, the outstanding

problem is not that the diagnosis has not been made – although,

extraordinarily, this is disgracefully common – but that is has, and the

thyroxine treatment doesn’t work. The dose has been altered up and

down, and clinical improvement is variable and doesn’t last, in spite of

blood tests, which say you are perfectly all right (and therefore you are

actually depressed and need this fine antidepressant).

The above problems must be

eliminated if thyroid hormone isn't working for you.

If, however, since taking such

a high dose of T3 (and is right to condemn you starting with such a high

dose - no doctor should start anybody on such a very high dose of this active

thyroid hormone straight off - it can actually be dangerous, especially if you

have any heart issues - you should have been started on 20mcgs, split twice

daily)- you start to get symptoms of palpitations, feeling dizzy, sweating,

feeling spaced out and agitated, plus the other symptoms of hyPOThyroidism,

then cut right back on your T3 and don't take any for a couple of days and get

this right out of your system. Then start again by taking 20mcgs T3 and see how

you feel on that dose twice daily. After 2 to 3 weeks, if no symptoms of

hypothyroidism, you can add another 10mcgs, but split your dose 3 times daily.

If you get confusing responses,

you should always question as to why. This is the only way you are going to

move safely forward. It is frightening however, that the majority of NHS

doctors are not taught about how to treat the symptoms of hypothyroidism

properly and they have little time to do the research themselves that is

needed. Just because you have not had any 'effect' taking the 60mcgs T3 plus

100mcgs T4 does not mean that you will not. This could hit you all at once, and

right out of the blue.

On the technical side, I see

you have used the option to receive a Daily Digest which means you get up to 25

messages in 1 email, and you need to scroll through there to find if there have

been any responses too your message(s). The other way is to type your email

address into the little search engine at the top of the page of 'Messages'

which you can access from the Home Page Menu of this forum web site and any

messages that you have posted will show up, plus any responses under your

messages that others have sent.

I hope this helps.

Luv - Sheila

From: thyroid treatment

[mailto:thyroid treatment ] On Behalf Of Matt

Sent: 18 October 2011 15:15

thyroid treatment

Subject: Re: Can anyone offer any input/suggestions/own

experience etc etc?

Hi ,

Thanks for taking the trouble to send me a reply.

Basically, I was told to take 40mg in the morning, and 20mg in the evening. I

have been doing this since last week, and to be honest, I don't really feel

anything - good or bad!! This is alone with 100mg of the usual stuff,

levothyroxine.

What do you think?

May I ask your own experience?

Matt

> >

> >t wasn't necessary as my T4 (25.9) and TSH (0.05) were wihtin

acceptable range), a T3 conversion test was carried out, and with the result in

on Thursday illustrating a reading of 4.9, I have started taking the T3 (60mg

daily) with 100mg of T4.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

moderated to remove most of previous messages already read. Please delete these

before clicking 'send' and leave just a small portion of what you are responding

to. Luv - Sheila

______________________________

Dear Sheila,

Thank you SO much for your really personal, and detailed response. It sounds

really stupid for a 47 year old male, but I became really emotional reading it.

I have been taking 60mcgs of T3 now (split 40mcgs first thing, and 20mgs in the

evening), for just over a week, along with 150mcgms of T4 as usual taken in the

morning.

Basically, I have felt as though I was living in someone elses body, and having

very wierd feelings and thought processes. In the last couple of days, I have

been feeling very emotional, and actually having very morbid thoughts.

As I have just said in a post (before I found and read your kind e-mail), I seem

to have retained just enough sanity to realise that this is NOT the right way

forward at all.

At this stage, may I also say, that the diagnosis and prescription of the

private consultant endocrinologist that I saw (privately) a few weeks ago, was

to COMPLETELY stop T4,and simply take the 60mcgs dose of T3 each day. What do

you make of that Sheila?

What I actually decided to do - based on all these wonderful contributors'

comments, was to continue a lower dose of T4 AND the 60mcgs of T3, and this is

what has left me feeling so completely out of control this week.

Today, I took my old 200mcgs of T4, plus half a 20mcgs T3 tablet this morning,

and don't plan to take any more today. My heart has been pumping like crazy, and

I'm finding it difficult to think straight.

I have made an appointment with my GP for tomorrow.

Basically, the reason I wanted to pursue T3 as an option - indeed pursue an

alternative to T4 per se, is that since 2004 and diagnosis, I simply haven't

felt 'right', or as I persistently told my GP, " not like my 'old self' " . All

the usual things apply, even with 200mcgs daily - 3pm knackered, forgetful,

depressed or low moods, mood swings, flu/cold symptoms relatively regularly, etc

etc

Can you give me you opinion?

Thank you so much,

Matt

> >

Just because you have not had any

> 'effect' taking the 60mcgs T3 plus 100mcgs T4 does not mean that you will

> not. This could hit you all at once, and right out of the blue.

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Matt

>Basically, the reason I wanted to pursue T3 as an option - indeed pursue an

alternative to T4 per se, is that since 2004 and diagnosis, I simply haven't

felt 'right', or as I persistently told my GP, " not like my 'old self' " . All

the usual things apply, even with 200mcgs daily - 3pm knackered, forgetful,

depressed or low moods, mood swings, flu/cold symptoms relatively regularly, etc

etc

>Can you give me you opinion?

Perhaps it's not just your thyroid that is the problem? Have you checked for

any other vitamin or hormone deficiencies? Checked for things like Ferritin,

copper, zinc, vit D3?

Have you done the Hertoghe questionnare in here to see if you have any other

symptoms of other hormonal conditions, it might be your testosterone is also low

- have you had this checked recently?

thyroid treatment/files/MEDICAL%20QUES\

TIONNAIRES/

or you can do it online, just make sure you click 'edit' which is under this

text: " I've made a spread sheet out of this questionnaire here " :

http://blog.saravanan.org/?p=40

Chris

[Guest guest]

Would it help Matt

to show the GP the letter I sent you. We are a Registered Charity, and knowing

that, who knows, the GP might actually pay some attention to the information

that is in there. Tell him that we have over 2606 members who all felt the need

to join an Interne thyroid support group because they were still suffering

symptoms when on thyroid hormone replacement within the NHS. He might realise

that some of his other patients also have similar problems to you, and that it

is not all in their head, as they would try to make out it is.

Luv - Sheila

>Basically, the reason I wanted to pursue T3 as an option - indeed pursue an

alternative to T4 per se, is that since 2004 and diagnosis, I simply haven't

felt 'right', or as I persistently told my GP, " not like my 'old

self' " . All

the usual things apply, even with 200mcgs daily - 3pm knackered, forgetful,

depressed or low moods, mood swings, flu/cold symptoms relatively regularly,

etc

etc

>Can you give me you opinion?

_,_._,___

[Guest guest]

Hi Matt

You do have choices:

1. You could drop your thyroxine to 75 or 50mcg and take only 20mcg T3 in

staggered doses, ie 10 at around noon or later, 5mcg at around 5.30pm and then

5mcg just as your head hits the pillow, after lights out.

http://thyroid-rt3.com/dosing.htm Then slowly increase the T3 in 10mcg

increments each couple of weeks and see how you feel and post back.

2. You could also insist that your endocrinologist gives you a trial of natural

desiccated thyroid such as Erfa or Naturthroid.

3. Or you could stop the T4 (thyroxine) completely and continue with the T3

dosing schedule above, gradually increasing in 10 or 12.5mcg doses every couple

of weeks, or when you feel slightly hypO until you reach 60mcg.

http://thyroid-rt3.com/dosing.htm

Whatever you decide, you should stick to this for some weeks to see if it is

working. I dropped from 150mcg T4 to 75mcg T4 and 10mcg T3, then 50mcg T4 and

20mcg T3 and then stopped T4 altogether and slowly increased 10 or 12.5mcg when

I felt I was about to go hypO. I continued to increase until I was on 60mcg T3

only and felt lucid for the first time but my body still could not function

normally. It took a whole year for me to get to this stage. I continued to

increase and am now stable on 125mcg T3. LISTEN TO YOUR BODY AND MANAGE

ACCORDINGLY!!!

Some people only need 20mcgT3 to keep them going and others need much much more.

I don't know why, but I am the latter and cannot function on anything less. I

tried dropping my dose to 100mcg but after a couple of days I was sleeping

3-4hrs each afternoon and so had to increase my dose.

I must also add that I was suffering severe T4 toxicosis and when stopping T4

and starting T3 and I thought I was dying. This was NOT from the T3 but from

the T4 leaving my system. I was sweating severely and felt suicidal but I am a

strong person, and so persevered. T4 is poison to me and to many people!

Another thing you may not find important but it is absolutely VITAL, is that you

have your Vit D, B12, folate, iron inc. transferrin saturation %, ferritin (your

stored iron), copper (most hosp and labs won't test but it's worth trying) and

zinc levels checked, because if any of these are low in the reference range, no

amount of thyroid hormone can be utilised properly at the cellular level. So,

you may show 'normal' thyroid function tests but you feel rotten.

I was deficient in Vit D, low in B12, potassium and folate and since I have got

these levels up, I have felt a remarkable improvement.

My Vit D was SO important because as soon as my levels increased, I could feel

my bones getting stronger and I had more stamina. With winter approaching I

would recommend (if I could) that everyone supplement 2000iu p/d to keep their

levels up. This is just a very basic dose and this study explains how important

it is... http://www.grassrootshealth.net/garland02-11

I suggest you allow your body to get used to T3 as it is the most potent thyroid

hormone as it is active, whereas T4 is not and needs to convert in the body into

T3. Not everyone can convert T4 into T3 properly, and some people are also

resistant to thyroid hormone at the cellular level.

One more thing, once you are on any form of T3 your TSH and free T4 will nearly

always show suppressed so it is no longer a reliable marker.

I hope this is some help and I haven't confused you too much.

Jacquie

__________________________________

> Basically, the reason I wanted to pursue T3 as an option - indeed pursue an

alternative to T4 per se, is that since 2004 and diagnosis, I simply haven't

felt 'right', or as I persistently told my GP, " not like my 'old self' " . All

the usual things apply, even with 200mcgs daily - 3pm knackered, forgetful,

depressed or low moods, mood swings, flu/cold symptoms relatively regularly, etc

etc

>

> Can you give me you opinion?

>

> Thank you so much,

>

> Matt

[Guest guest]

Hi Jacquie,

Thanks so much for your kind reply - it is incredible how much support one can

find on a forum.

I have to admit, that having simply taken T4 since diagnosis in January 2004,

until recently, and my endeavours to be prescribed T3, I had no idea of the

potential complexities of being a hypothyroid sufferer, and just how many

factors need to be taken into consideration. It's clear I have a lot of reading

and research to do.

I am so grateful that you have taken the trouble to be so detailed in your

message. At this stage, I don't really understand the majority of the points

you raised, but I intend to, once I have looked into them in more detail.

In fact, I am seeing my GP today at 4pm, and fully intend to ask for the tests

you mentioend to be carried out - Vit D, B12, folate etc etc..

Bottom line is, that actually, on T4, I don't feel 'bad', it's just that I know

I don't feel how I used to. I get tired, depressed, forgetful, have cold

symptoms periodically, and this just isn't how I used to be. On the other hand,

I'm healthy, I exercise vigorously every day at the gym, or running, or cycling,

and although I put on one stone in weight during the first year of diagnosis,

I'm a 6' male weighing 12 st 11lbs, so I keep myself in shape.

It really is facsinating, so now, having stopped the 60mcgs T3 yesterday, I feel

okay today, I intend to ask for my T34 to be dropped to say 150mcgs, and for a

slow, steady start to T3, and see how that goes.

What do you think?

Matt

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Thanks again. Actually, as I mentiomed, I'm seeing my GP this afternoon at 4pm,

and fully intend to show him your letter. Hugely appreciate your input.

By his own admission, my GP says that a number of his patients complain that

they don't feel right on T4, but he has said to date that T4 was THE only

treatment. That is until this last month, where I pressed very, very hard, both

in person and in writing to the practice, having seen all the comments on this

site, for a review of my treatment, and although consistently for years they

have said that T3 was not available in this area, and never prescribed, to his

and ALL his colleagues embarrassment, they found out that it WAS available!!

I intend to have the tests carried out, that Jacquie on this forum has

recommended - Vit D, B12, folate etc etc.. I have no idea what it all means

(yet), but I will do soon enough.

Feeling a bit more normal today, having stopped taking 60mcgs of T3 yesterday.

Do you have a view or opinion on T3 treatment ONLY Sheila, and also, can you

explain T4 toxicosis, as brought up by Jacquie?

Cheerio,

Matt

[Guest guest]

Sorry Sheila,

I have just read again, your first message, containing the clear description of

T4 toxicosis - thanks.

I had a free T3 test done two weeks ago - it took three attempts to get them to

do it - under duress! The result was 4.9, apparently on a scale of 4 to 8.3.

How does this sound to you Sheila, bearing in mind my T4 does of 200mcgs daily?

Matt

[Guest guest]

Well, your GP is on a slow learning curve Matt, but he MUST

learn properly how to use T3 for his patients and what T3 does. T3 can be

dangerous if not used properly and started off in too high a dosage, as he did

with you. I guess by now you will have already seen him, so it will be

interesting to learn of his reaction.

The specific minerals and vitamins we recommend should all be

tested to see whether they are low in the reference range because if any of

them are, no amount of thyroid hormone T4. T3, either in combination, alone or

in natural thyroid extract can be fully utilised in the cells until whatever is

low has been supplemented. Not a lot of doctors know this, but show them the

attached document showing references to just some of the research/studies to

show the connection between these and low thyroid levels.

Luv - Sheila

Hi Sheila,

By his own admission, my GP says that a number of his patients complain that

they don't feel right on T4, but he has said to date that T4 was THE only

treatment. That is until this last month, where I pressed very, very hard, both

in person and in writing to the practice, having seen all the comments on this

site, for a review of my treatment, and although consistently for years they

have said that T3 was not available in this area, and never prescribed, to his

and ALL his colleagues embarrassment, they found out that it WAS available!!

I intend to have the tests carried out, that Jacquie on this forum has recommended

- Vit D, B12, folate etc etc.. I have no idea what it all means (yet), but I

will do soon enough.

,_._,___

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Okay, I visited my GP yesterday afternoon, and he was generous with his time -

45 minutes. He actually suffers with Graves Disease, and at point of diagnosis

had his T4 reading 160, which I understand is the highest reading, and in fact,

his consultant said it could have been significantly higher!

Anyway, having printed off your own, as well as other message from the forum to

present to him, as well as the pages from the BNF Manual (we have one in the

house as my partner is a Radiograper!), I intended to give them to him to read.

Attempting to do so, he stopped me, simply saying that stuff like incestigations

in to adrenal function, receptor resistance etc etc, were out of his shpere of

expertise.

He also mentioned that he was concerned about the private endocrinologist's

recommendation to come off T4 and use 60mcgs of T3 alone, suggesting his

approach would have been 150mcgs T4 and 10 + 10mcgs of T3 daily to start with.

Anyway, that's what's happening from now - or acutally in a few days, because I

still feel really weird from the days I was taking 60mcgs of T3.

My GP confirmed that in May this year, I was tested for iron, ferritin, Vit B12,

and D3, and all were in normal reference ranges. Furthermore, the free T3 test

I have just had this month was 4.9 - within the apparent reference ranges of 4

to 8.3.

My GP gave me the impression, that actually, with my T4 currently being 25.4 and

TSH 0.52, AND with free T3 in normal range, that maybe all was actually under

control, and my hypothyroid symptoms (ie forgetfullness, mood swings, low

mood/depressed feelings, cold type symptoms periodically etc etc), might just be

'mental', or 'life' related.

He was, as usual, very patient, very concerned, and helpful, but I left almost

thinking, well let's give the 150 T4 and 10 + 10 T3 a go, and if that doesn't

work, slip back on to the 200mcgs T4 daily and hope for the best, rather than

mess around trying to find a cure for something that is in my mind.

This morning, I acutally looked through all my medical records since diagnosis

in Jan 2004 (I asked for a full copy), and it was interesting to see that in Jan

2004, I was diagnosed with Hashimotos Thyroiditis, with T4 reading 67.00, and

TSH 16.3.

What do you think of all that Sheila?

Matt

[Guest guest]

What do I think - I will tell you in my usual blunt Yorkshire

fashion. Don't be taken in by this doctor, however nice he seemed to be and

however generous he was in giving you 45 minutes of his valuable time. DON'T

ALLOW THIS DOCTOR TO TREAT YOUR THYROID CONDITION - HE OBVIOUSLY KNOWS NOTHING

ABOUT HYPOTHYROIDISM AND FROM WHAT HE HAS TOLD YOU, I CAN GUARANTEE THAT HE WILL

ONLY CAUSE YOU SERIOUS PROBLEMS. This is why so many sufferers have had to

leave the NHS to treat themselves by doing the research such doctors either

haven't got the time to do, or simply cannot be bothered to do to help them get

back their normal health.

I have to go out right now so have no time to spare , but the

fact that he told you that adrenal function, receptor resistance etc etc were

out of his sphere of expertise, should have told you immediately that you need

to be referred to somebody of your choice who does have expertise in these

fields. Most NHS endocrinologists know little, as their expertise usually lies

in diabetes, period!

Luv - Sheila

My GP gave me the impression, that actually, with my T4 currently being 25.4

and TSH 0.52, AND with free T3 in normal range, that maybe all was actually

under control, and my hypothyroid symptoms (ie forgetfullness, mood swings, low

mood/depressed feelings, cold type symptoms periodically etc etc), might just

be 'mental', or 'life' related.

He was, as usual, very patient, very concerned, and helpful, but I left almost

thinking, well let's give the 150 T4 and 10 + 10 T3 a go, and if that doesn't

work, slip back on to the 200mcgs T4 daily and hope for the best, rather than

mess around trying to find a cure for something that is in my mind.

This morning, I acutally looked through all my medical records since diagnosis

in Jan 2004 (I asked for a full copy), and it was interesting to see that in

Jan 2004, I was diagnosed with Hashimotos Thyroiditis, with T4 reading 67.00,

and TSH 16.3.

What do you think of all that Sheila?

Matt

[Guest guest]

As I suspected Matt, the high level of free T4 shows the

thyroxine was not converting to the active thyroid hormone T3 that is needed to

make every cell in your body and brain function. This has now shown to be the

case with your very low level of free T3, which is right at the bottom of the

reference range. Your doctor should be giving you a trial of T3 to replace the

T3 your aren't making. What's wrong with these doctors? You need to get him to

refer you to an endocrinologist preferably of your choice, and one who treats

using T3, either synthetic or natural thyroid extract. If these doctors refuse

you, then you might need to consider taking your thyroid health into your own

hands if you cannot see a private doctor, and buying your own T3 as many of our

members have been forced into doing.

Luv - Sheila

Sorry Sheila,

I have just read again, your first message, containing the clear description of

T4 toxicosis - thanks.

I had a free T3 test done two weeks ago - it took three attempts to get them to

do it - under duress! The result was 4.9, apparently on a scale of 4 to 8.3.

How does this sound to you Sheila, bearing in mind my T4 does of 200mcgs daily?

Matt

[Guest guest]

Sorry Matt - too early in the morning to get my brain in

gear. I forgot that you are the one the endocrinologist told you to start

taking T3 in a dose of 60mcgs. So forget what I have written previously. I

guess by now you will have had the discussion you intended with your GP

yesterday. What was the outcome. How are you feeling now, and are you going to

start on a low dose of T3?

Luv - Sheila

What's wrong with these doctors? You

need to get him to refer you to an endocrinologist preferably of your choice,

and one who treats using T3, either synthetic or natural thyroid extract.

Sorry Sheila,

I have just read again, your first message, containing the clear description of

T4 toxicosis - thanks.

I had a free T3 test done two weeks ago - it took three attempts to get them to

do it - under duress! The result was 4.9, apparently on a scale of 4 to 8.3.

How does this sound to you Sheila, bearing in mind my T4 does of 200mcgs daily?

Matt

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Did you get the message I sent after I had seen my GP a couple of weeks ago?

Your comments about my T3 reading are interesting, when you say they are at the

bottom of the reference range - the reading being 4.9.

My GP said at 4.9, the level was within the 4 and 8.3 range, and therefore

perfectly acceptable!!

When I saw the Consultant Endo last week privately, he said testing free T3 was

pretty much as waste of time - and this comes from a Consultant! What do you

make of that?

Basically, as I outlined in my last message to you, having had so much

conflicting information, I find the whole thing totally laughable! To be

honest, I get the impression, that I could get the prescription I wanted from

both my GP and the Consultant Endo!! They seem totally vague about what to do,

totally lacking in real, targetted advice, diagnosis and structure of treatment,

and frankly - whilst both are very, very helpful and easy to speak to, they seem

to be throwing mud at a wall and hoping some will stick!!

I now have loads and loads of both T4 and T3 at home, so I'm basically making up

my own concoction - currently 175 T4 and 20 T3 in the morning and 10 T3

mid-afternoon.

The lack of real true understanding from the medical profession really astounds

me!

Matt

[Guest guest]

Hi Mat, my experience ekco`s sheila`s advice to you, do your own research and don`t take doctors word as Gospel.i only got well after leaving the doctors advice in his waiting room , and saw a doctor that knows what it is like to have a bad thyroid. i am now searching as much about the adrenals that i can find as they work with the thyroid and if they are not doing well then neitherwill you. first look for someone that has the time and interest to get you well and also work with you not against you.it is often not in our own best interest to let a doctor take away your right to find the best treatment for you. we are all different, and need to be treated with what ever

is going to make us well again, and as individuals. Angel.