Tissue resistance to T3? Adrenal fatigue? Bloods COMPLETELY NORMAL please help!!

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone, I'm pretty new here and I would REALLY appreciate your help. I've just got back my blood results (taken in the morning) and they really couldn't be any more normal: TSH 1.9 (0.27 - 4.2) T4 18.8 (12 - 22) T3 4.8 (3.1 - 6.8) I am undiagnosed but I have so so many symptoms of hypothyroidism. I really don't know what to do next. I'm in desperate need of some advice. I've had my VitD, B12, folate and Iron checked and they're all normal too. How can everything be normal and yet I feel so awful? I've had some dodgy TSH readings in the past but totally fine this time. I've heard about tissue resistance to T3 so I'm wondering if that could be my problem. Or perhaps adrenal fatigue - my morning basal temps are all over the place. Is it possible that because these blood results are only a snap shot at 1 point in time that if they were taken again at the same time the next day they could be completely different if my thyroid is fluctuating? Thanks for all your help in advance. I just don't know what to do. xx

[Guest guest]

Hi

Welcome to the forum!

Please can you advise the exact results of the tests you've had done (b12, iron

etc) with ref ranges? Normal isn't necessarily optimal.

>I've had some

> dodgy TSH readings in the past but totally fine this time.

please can you advise what these were?

Thanks

Chris

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> I'm pretty new here and I would REALLY appreciate your help.

>

> I've had my VitD, B12, folate and Iron checked and they're all normal

> too. How can everything be normal and yet I feel so awful? I've had some

> dodgy TSH readings in the past but totally fine this time.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Diamond, (is there a name we can call you?)

These results are not *normal* .... your TSH is too high, I'd expect it to be

around 1.0 for you to start feeling better. With most Free T3 results, we'd

expect the levels to be considerably higher than the Free T4 levels. This way we

would assume that the T3 is converting properly.

Are these T3 and T4 results or Free T3 and Free T4 results?

Are you on thyroid medication? Can you tell us how much, which brand name and

whether you're on synthetic or natural thyroid hormone?

Can you give us the results of your vitamin tests with the reference ranges?

What some think is normal, is not at all normal. You'd think that people who

spend years in medical school would learn how to properly read lab results, but

unfortunately this isn't true :0(

If you get a chance, please view the two videos we have on our blog, they are

very informative....

http://thinkthyroid.blogspot.com/

Happy to have you here.. not to worry, we'll all figure it out together.

Cheers,

JOT

Hi everyone,

>

> I'm pretty new here and I would REALLY appreciate your help.

>

> I've just got back my blood results (taken in the morning) and they

> really couldn't be any more normal:

>

> TSH 1.9 (0.27 - 4.2)

> T4 18.8 (12 - 22)

> T3 4.8 (3.1 - 6.8)

[Guest guest]

HI,

Just to reassure you: if you got to the point when you weren't taking any T4 but

you were taking T3 and your FT3 was 8 -10 and you couldn't feel anything with a

TSH of near zero then and only then might I begin to consider some resistance.

Even then there are many other explanations.

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet - even this. Do your own

research and do it thoroughly. The worst thing you can do is to hear some

discussions and make some rapid conclusions.

Good luck.

>

> Hi everyone,

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Have you been checked for thyroid antibodies? If not, this would be my next

step with suspected hypo but 'normal' labs. I was ill for 5 years before anyone

thought to test my thyroid and I had hashimoto's - autoimmune thyroid disease.

Alsoi, as someone else has said. please post ALL your results as a lot of us

know from experience what a doc says is 'normal' is often not optimal levels for

good health.

Nadia

[Guest guest]

Thank you all SO much for your supportive and very speedy responses!

Very touching when you are feeling like there is no hope. Sorry, I'm

trying not to panic. I know no doctor will look at those results and

take me seriously. Here are my previous thyroid blood test results:

2008: TSH 3.01 (0.4 - 5.0), FT4 11.7 (11 - 23)

2010: TSH 2.7 (0.27 - 4.2)

2011:

FEB: TSH 6.3 (0.27 - 4.2), FT4 16.8 (12 - 22)

MAY #1: TSH 2.0 (0.27 - 4.2)

MAY#2: TSH 7.39 (0.4 - 5.00), FT4: 16.9 (10.0 - 23.0), FT3: 5.4 (3.5 -

6.5)

AUG: TSH 1.9 (0.27 - 4.2), FT4 18.8 (12 - 22), FT3 4.8 (3.1 - 6.8)

And my most recent vitamin results are:

FEB: Folate 6.7 (4.4 - 20.0), B12 399 (180 - 900)

MAY: Ferritin 62 (16 - 445), VitD 110 (below 75 consider

supplementation), Albumin 35 (35 - 50), corrected serum calcium 2.48

(2.1 - 2.6), serum calcium 2.38 (2.1 - 2.6)

Where do I go from here? Any guidance would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thanks for the welcome! Results all posted - would be keen to know what

you think.

Diamond

>

[Guest guest]

Hi D:

Your B12 is far too low. With Vitamin B12, your levels should be at the top of

the range. So here, you should be at 900. Start to take 2-3 tablets a day for a

month. Then go down to one tablet a day.

The methyl form works best:

http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Methyl-B-12-1000-mcg-100-Lozenges/129?at=0

Any time you take a B vitamin you must also supplement with a B complex to

balance the Bs in your system. Take one a day:

http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-B-Right-100-Capsules/110?at=0

Your folate should be at least mid-range, it's also low. The B complex should

help to bring that up.

Your ferritin needs to come up as well. Do you have any iron serum labs?

Ferritin for women should be 110-130. You will start to feel good at ferritin

levels of 70-90, but optimal is at least 110.

Iron Bisglycinate is the form of iron which absorbs easiest. I would take one a

day. When is your next lab test for iron?

http://www.iherb.com/Bluebonnet-Nutrition-Chelated-Iron-18-mg-90-Vcaps/13960?at=\

0

Are you supplementing with vitamin C, Vitamin D3, magnesium, celtic sea salt or

selenium?

Cheers,

JOT

> And my most recent vitamin results are:

>

> FEB: Folate 6.7 (4.4 - 20.0), B12 399 (180 - 900)

>

> MAY: Ferritin 62 (16 - 445), VitD 110 (below 75 consider

> supplementation), Albumin 35 (35 - 50), corrected serum calcium 2.48

> (2.1 - 2.6), serum calcium 2.38 (2.1 - 2.6)

[Guest guest]

Hi Jot,

Thanks for y0ur reply. To clarify, I am not taking any medication and I

am undiagnosed. Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean on a couple of

things:

>> These results are not *normal* .... your TSH is too high, I'd expect

it to be around 1.0 for you to start feeling better.

Do you mean even in someone who is not taking medication or in someone

who is taking meds only?

>>With most Free T3 results, we'd expect the levels to be considerably

higher than the Free T4 levels. This way we would assume that the T3 is

converting properly. Are these T3 and T4 results or Free T3 and Free T4

results?

Sorry, the results are Free T4 and Free T3. But the range for T3 is

much lower than the range for T4, so do my results show T4 is converting

properly?

Thanks for the video links, I did chuckle!

Thanks again for your support :-)

Diamond

[Guest guest]

Hi again Jot,

Thanks for the info, I will start taking these. I don't have any Iron

serum labs, my GP felt it was sufficient to just do ferritin. Do I need

these done too? I don't have another blood test for Iron arranged. I

think my GP is now satisfied that I don't have an Iron problem...hmmm

after what you've said I'm not so sure. How long until you think they

will entertain doing it again?

I've started taking 1000mg Vit C (1 a day), 375mg Magnesium and 39mcg

Selenium (both 3 times a day) - do you think this is enough? My Vit D

is already quite high at 110 so I wasn't going to supplement this.

Do you know what low albumin means? Mine's just on the edge of the

range.

Thanks,

Diamond

>

> Hi D:

>

> Your B12 is far too low. With Vitamin B12, your levels should be at

the top of the range. So here, you should be at 900. Start to take 2-3

tablets a day for a month. Then go down to one tablet a day.

>

> > And my most recent vitamin results are:

> >

> > FEB: Folate 6.7 (4.4 - 20.0), B12 399 (180 - 900)

> >

> > MAY: Ferritin 62 (16 - 445), VitD 110 (below 75 consider

> > supplementation), Albumin 35 (35 - 50), corrected serum calcium 2.48

> > (2.1 - 2.6), serum calcium 2.38 (2.1 - 2.6)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for your message. Definitely reassuring! I've a lot of work to

do! What would you suggest is the best way to start doing research

other than on the net?

Many thanks,

Diamond

>

> HI,

>

> Just to reassure you: if you got to the point when you weren't taking

any T4 but you were taking T3 and your FT3 was 8 -10 and you couldn't

feel anything with a TSH of near zero then and only then might I begin

to consider some resistance. Even then there are many other

explanations.

>

> Don't believe everything you read on the Internet - even this. Do your

own research and do it thoroughly. The worst thing you can do is to hear

some discussions and make some rapid conclusions.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Nadia,

Thanks for your reply. TPO Ab have come back negative, although I don't

have actual numbers for this - do I need to get hold of these? Results

for Tg Ab are pending. All results now posted - I would be grateful for

any thoughts on these.

Diamond

>

> Hi,

>

> Have you been checked for thyroid antibodies? If not, this would be my

next step with suspected hypo but 'normal' labs. I was ill for 5 years

before anyone thought to test my thyroid and I had hashimoto's -

autoimmune thyroid disease.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Nadia,

Thanks for your message. I've replied twice before but nothing listed

on the website so here goes again!

TPO Ab came back negative but I don't have any numbers for this - do I

need these as well? TgAb results pending. All results posted again -

any thoughts on these would be gratefully received.

Diamond

>

> Hi,

>

> Have you been checked for thyroid antibodies? If not, this would be my

next step with suspected hypo but 'normal' labs. I was ill for 5 years

before anyone thought to test my thyroid and I had hashimoto's -

autoimmune thyroid disease.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi D:

Let's start to raise you Vitamin C slowly up to bowel tolerance...I'd like to

see you at least 3000 mgs a day. Keep the magnesium at 375mgs a day and try to

get at least about 200 mcgs of selenium each day.

Albumin is a liver test to see how that's running. I'm not the best one to ask

about this test but here is a link you can read on it:

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/normal-albumin-levels.html

Cheers,

JOT

> I've started taking 1000mg Vit C (1 a day), 375mg Magnesium and 39mcg

> Selenium (both 3 times a day) - do you think this is enough? My Vit D

> is already quite high at 110 so I wasn't going to supplement this.

>

> Do you know what low albumin means? Mine's just on the edge of the

> range.

[Guest guest]

Hi D:

So you are not on any thyroid meds whatsoever...Ok, than you certainly should

have been given a trial from your GP. Your TSH tells us that you need some

support. With Thyroid meds your TSH at 1.9 should start to go down. Many people

feel good at a TSH of 1.0 (myself included) if it's just a matter of

supplementing thyroid meds and no other issues are involved. With supplementing,

your FT3 should raise and your FT4 should come down a bit if the FT3 is

converting properly. It's just one step at time to figure out what is what.

Does your throat hurt or do you continually get sore throats? We'd want you to

have tests done for Hashimoto's in this case.

Start to take your temps using these directions:

You can determine your thyroid and adrenal status by following Dr. Rind with a

temperature graph. You simply take your temp 3 times a day, starting three hours

after you wake up, and every three hours after that, to equal three temps. (If

you have eaten or exercised right before it's time to take your temp, wait 20

more minutes.) Then average them for that day. Do this for AT LEAST 5 days. If

your averaged temp is fluctuating from day to day more than .2 to .3, you need

adrenal support. If it is fluctuating but overall low, you need more adrenal

support and thyroid. If it is fluctuating but averaging 98.6, you just need

adrenal support. If it is steady but low, you need more thyroid and adrenals are

likely fine.

Also for just your basal temps in the morning, start to write those down for the

next 10 days. See how much they fluctuate and let us know how they are.

As far as the iron labs, sometimes ferritin levels raise if you have

inflammation in the body and it gives a poor result, we don't know whether your

ferritin is correct or not. This is why we would look at a serum iron test to

see how much iron you've got. At 68, this is not bad if indeed it is correct.

But, it is still low. I like to see ferritin levels at 110 in women up to 130

for women who are still experiencing menses.

Can you tell us exactly what all your symptoms are? Can you list them for us?

What about sleep? ARe you sleeping well? or troubles getting and staying asleep?

Do you drag through the day and wake up in the late afternoon?

Thanks.

As far as the word NORMAL, we should not be allowed to use this word at all.

It's deceptive even when we use it correctly :0( What's normal for one is not

normal for another. :0)

Cheers,

JOT

TSH 1.9 (0.27 - 4.2)

T4 18.8 (12 - 22)

T3 4.8 (3.1 - 6.8)

> Thanks for y0ur reply. To clarify, I am not taking any medication and I

> am undiagnosed. Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean on a couple

[Guest guest]

Diamond - yes, you have posted messages previously to the forum

and THEY ARE THERE ON THE FORUM with lots of responses. Go to thyroid treatment/message/88205

where you can read your original message and underneath, you can read all the

different responses. The topic heading was Tissue resistance to T3? Adrenal

fatigue? Bloods COMPLETELY NORMAL

Luv - Sheila

Thanks for your message. I've replied twice before but nothing listed

on the website so here goes again!

TPO Ab came back negative but I don't have any numbers for this - do I

need these as well? TgAb results pending. All results posted again -

any thoughts on these would be gratefully received.

Diamond

>

> Hi,

>

> Have you been checked for thyroid antibodies? If not, this would be my

next step with suspected hypo but 'normal' labs. I was ill for 5 years

before anyone thought to test my thyroid and I had hashimoto's -

autoimmune thyroid disease.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Diamond

That is strange, I don't know why your TSH would vary so much

I googled it and found this:

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/basics_starthere/a/fluctuatetsh.htm

could any of those be affecting you, do you think?

was it autumn,winter, summer etc or different times of year when you got tested

?

how old are you, what are your symptoms etc? what fits? is your suspicion

that this is all just thyroid, or something else? what are your instincts?

if i can direct you to this questionnaire, is there anything that stands out:

thyroid treatment/files/MEDICAL%20QUES\

TIONNAIRES/ Hormone Questionnaire.Dr Thierry Hertoghe.xls

(look on page 2 of the spreadsheet for results)

chris

[Guest guest]

ps - not everyone does well with methylated b vitamins (i for one, don't)

these are a good alternative if you find you fit in that category:

http://www.revital.co.uk/Solgar_Vitamin_B_12

>

>

> The methyl form works best:

>

>

http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Methyl-B-12-1000-mcg-100-Lozenges/129?at=0

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the link, I don't think there's anything there that I can think of though that would fit. I'll try the questonaire and post the results.

I've annotated my blood results in case this helps:

2008: TSH 3.01 (0.4 - 5.0), FT4 11.7 (11 - 23) – LAB A, DECEMBER2010: TSH 2.7 (0.27 - 4.2) – LAB B, MAY2011:FEBRUARY: TSH 6.3 (0.27 - 4.2), FT4 16.8 (12 - 22) – LAB B, subsequently treated for VitD deficiency, may explain why TSH comes down in May? But I should point out that I felt no better after supplementation (VitD – 110) and have been acquiring new symptoms ever since.MAY #1: TSH 2.0 (0.27 - 4.2) – LAB BMAY#2: No results but doctor confirmed subclinical hypothyroidism, I imagine TSH over 4-5ish – LAB C (blood taken at 1am in A & E)

JUNE: TSH 7.39 (0.4 - 5.00), FT4: 16.9 (10.0 - 23.0), FT3: 5.4 (3.5 -6.5) – LAB D (blood taken at 1am in A & E)AUG: TSH 1.9 (0.27 - 4.2), FT4 18.8 (12 - 22), FT3 4.8 (3.1 - 6.8) – LAB B

The two labs which were done in the middle of the night may explain why the TSH is high, although I thought the range was supposed to take into account circadian rhythm? So still abnormal? And the labs in February 2011 were done in the morning so that's certainly too high? All other results were done in the morning. I don't think I can see a seasonal pattern.

I started a new contraceptive pill in December 2010 which supposedly had a high oestrogen content so I stopped that a couple of weeks before the test in August 2011 after reading about oestrogen dominance in case that was having an effect. I feel like my mood has perhaps improved but other than that, no change in symptoms.

Ok so about me, well, I'm 24 so my GP certainly can't put any of my symptoms down to ageing! It's just a suspicion I have that it's my thyroid causing all these symptoms. My mum and aunt are both hypothyroid, and I have a lot of symptoms which I think may be thyroid related. If you think I'm on the wrong track then please let me know. I just can't think of anything else that fits my symptoms (apart from possibly M.E but I don't want to accept that as a diagnosis and I am aware that there are some people who think that M.E. is just undiagnosed hypothyroidism). If something else jumps out, PLEASE PLEASE let me know!!!

My symptoms are (sorry the list is quite long!):

Muscle aches, exhaustion but don't have that heavy sleepy feeling (feel like a zombie!), not sleeping deeply, hard to fall asleep, wake up in the early hours, napping during the day, I could sleep for 9 hours a day plus easily, exercise intolerance, scalloped tongue, random itchy rashes and all over prickling, tinnitus, over sensitive hearing, visual disturbance, loss of appetite, losing weight, IBS (diarrhoea and constipation), low morning basal temp (97.3), pins and needles, head rushes, painful heavy periods, sugar cravings, poor concentration, low mood, chronic sinusitis, muscle twitches, joints clicking, overly emotional, low libido, hair thinner and coarser, finger nails tear easily, toe nails brittle, forgetful, anxiety (prone to panic attacks), lost for words, generally colder, heat intolerance, cold intolerance, clumsiness, dizziness (brought on by tipping head upside down, e.g. drying hair, but lasts a whole day), elevated liver enzyme (ALT), reduced GFR, possible low pulse rate (sometimes high 50s/low 60s but I need to check this out further – is this rate appropriate for my age?), itchy dry ear canal, dry mouth... I also think I may have experienced `brain fog' – VERY scary. I hope it was a one off.

I think that's it?!! J

Do they sound thyroidy to you?

I don't experience everything all at the same time. Some things come and go, if it's not one thing it's another, although some things are constant. The majority of symptoms have suddenly appeared this year so I think it's highly likely that they are somehow related.

I also think I may have an adrenal component to my problems, as my basal temp fluctuates wildly (readings somewhere between 96.2 and 97.8 but average is 97.3).

Any thoughts or comments?! J

Thanks a lot for your help,

Diamond

P.S. sorry for the long post!>> Hi Diamond> > That is strange, I don't know why your TSH would vary so much >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sheila, some of the messages don't have the correct time that I

actually posted them and some haven't appeared at all so I think

something funny might have happened maybe with my internet connection or

something?!

:-)

Diamond

>

> Diamond - yes, you have posted messages previously to the forum and

THEY ARE

> THERE ON THE FORUM with lots of responses. Go to

>

thyroid treatment/message/8820\

5

> where you can read your original message and underneath, you can read

all

> the different responses. The topic heading was Tissue resistance to

T3?

> Adrenal fatigue? Bloods COMPLETELY NORMAL

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the advice :-)

Hmm ok, that's interesting, I've read that the liver slows down in

hypothyroidism so perhaps this is another symptom? I have had an

elevated ALT liver enzyme blood result too and a low GFR. Perhaps they

are all related? Is anyone able to shed some light on this please?

Thanks,

Diamond

>

> Hi D:

>

> Let's start to raise you Vitamin C slowly up to bowel tolerance...I'd

like to see you at least 3000 mgs a day. Keep the magnesium at 375mgs a

day and try to get at least about 200 mcgs of selenium each day.

>

> Albumin is a liver test to see how that's running. I'm not the best

one to ask about this test but here is a link you can read on it:

>

> http://www.buzzle.com/articles/normal-albumin-levels.html

>

> Cheers,

> JOT

>

[Guest guest]

Hi D:

No, I do not think you are off at all...This screams of adrenal fatigue to

me...and also thyroid fatigue. Here is a link to the section on Adrenals in our

file :

thyroid treatment/files/ADRENALS/

With the NHS you probably would need to pay for a test yourself for adrenals to

see what shape they are in. Look under Genova links for those tests. If you are

not on thyroid meds, then you want to start to support the adrenals but not

before you take the test, if you choose to do so.

Link for vitamins and supplements:

thyroid treatment/files/Vitamin%20%26%\

20Mineral%20Supplements/

With the tinnitus, this is often a magnesium and a B12 deficiency. It's good you

have started on that. A vitamin B12 and b complex is essential here. You have

started that correct? A daily vitamin which has both copper and zinc in it is

very important as well.

Stop drinking anything with sugar in it, stop coffee and all caffieneted drinks.

Do you have celtic sea salt or unrefined himalayan rock salt? Start to take the

unrefined salt as soon as you wake up in a glass of water, after you take your

temps. First thing in the morning and continue throughout the day. 1/4 to 1/2

teaspoon in a glass of water 3 times a day. This will help with your dizziness

and many other things, including your electrolyte system.

Cheers,

JOT

> Muscle aches, exhaustion but don't have that heavy sleepy feeling (feel

> like a zombie!), not sleeping deeply, hard to fall asleep, wake up in

> the early hours, napping during the day, I could sleep for 9 hours a day

> plus easily, exercise intolerance, scalloped tongue, random itchy rashes

> and all over prickling, tinnitus, over sensitive hearing, visual

> disturbance, loss of appetite, losing weight, IBS (diarrhoea and

> constipation), low morning basal temp (97.3), pins and needles, head

> rushes, painful heavy periods, sugar cravings, poor concentration, low

> mood, chronic sinusitis, muscle twitches, joints clicking, overly

> emotional, low libido, hair thinner and coarser, finger nails tear

> easily, toe nails brittle, forgetful, anxiety (prone to panic attacks),

> lost for words, generally colder, heat intolerance, cold intolerance,

> clumsiness, dizziness (brought on by tipping head upside down, e.g.

> drying hair, but lasts a whole day), elevated liver enzyme (ALT),

> reduced GFR, possible low pulse rate (sometimes high 50s/low 60s but I

> need to check this out further – is this rate appropriate for my

> age?), itchy dry ear canal, dry mouth... I also think I may have

> experienced `brain fog' – VERY scary.

[Guest guest]

>Start to take the unrefined salt as soon as you wake up in a glass of water

this made me laugh jot ...i generally try and wake up in my bed but i'll give

the glass of water a try!

>

> Hi D:

[Guest guest]

HA HA HA !!

The things that come out of my mouth......I really shouldn't be allowed to speak

at all.... LOL

Cheers,

JOT

> >

> > Hi D:

>

[Guest guest]

Keep 'em coming Trish - I needed a good laugh!

Luv - Sheila

>Start to

take the unrefined salt as soon as you wake up in a glass of water

this made me laugh jot ...i generally try and wake up in my bed but i'll give

the glass of water a try!

_._,___