immune system

[Guest guest]

This just came in today. I have become acquainted with Otto through his

daughter in the US. He has a home there and here also since his wife passed

away.

I will give this more publicity. Otto will be keeping me updated.

I simply can't keep this as strictly as she does, but people have gotten

better anyway. The Flax Oil has to be the main reason.

Cliff

Immune System

Dear Cliff,

Thank you for the info about immune system.

Vitamin C is not really a vitamin - vitamins must be taken in microgram

doses.

Vitamin C is not produced by the human body. It is found in fruit, etc.,

but in

small quantities. When I am tired or stressed, I take 1 - 3 grams per day.

Clinical tests have shown that this vitamin can be used for cancer

fighting.

Vitamin D is produced by the body when exposed to the sun, therefore

I loke to have a good tan all the time (but I am very careful to avoid

sunburn).

Enclosed you will find a repotr I wrote after the visit with Dr. Budwig.

This

is just a first version, as the subject is new to me and I have much to

study,

I hope that you feel well and that your PSA is under control again - stress

and anxiety are our worst enemies.

Otto

An: Cliff Beckwith, INTERNET:spinner@...

Von: totto@...

Datum: 29.10.00, 03:33

Empf: Otto Report

Dear Cliff,

Thank you again for the address of Dr. Budwig.

I met her on Wed.25.

I apologize for not reporting immediately, but in the meantime

I had to spend several days in Pologne, and Dr. Budwig gave me

more than 500 pages of literature to study ...

I also wanted this letter for my own reference, therefore it

may become quite longish without being too technical, I hope.

I will also fax a copy to .

This is version 0.1 - I will update from time to time.

Dr. Budwig looks quite younger than 92 (!), seems physically

fit, she is alert and quite sharp. She lives in Freudenstadt,

in the middle of the Southern Black Forest - one of the most

beautiful areas in Germany.

Her scientific findings have been systematically suppressed

by industry, medecine and politics.

Her scientific findings:

All cells need oxygen for living. The oxygen transport agents

in the body, Dr. Budwig discovered, are lipoproteins. These

are water-soluble compounds produced by the organism, using

unsaturated oils and protein. The protein protects the

electrons in the unsaturated fat. Venous blood receives these

lipoproteins from the lymphatic system before it enters the

heart, is pumped to the lungs to receive oxygen, then through

the arteries in our body to feed the cells.

- Respiration requires electrons to recover the food energy.

- Cell membranes are controlled by surface-active lipoids.

- The immune system is governed by bioelectric energies stored

in energy depots.

- The nature constant (PLANCKH) is the basis of all natural

processes in living matter

- Electrodynamic processes are decisive for nerve functions

Of course this mechanism is quite more complicated, I still

do not understand the most important aspects of bio-electric,

magnetic and resonance phenomena and the interaction with the

sun as I do not yet have the basic knowledge of physics and

chemistry to graps these concepts.

The oil/protein ratio in our food is therefore important.

Unsaturated oil + protein is an essential food, not a medecine.

If our cells do not receive enough oxygen and building

substances, they start degenerating. Our normal " civilized "

food contains many saturated fats with hardening or antioxydant

treatment (for longer conservation). They cannot accept oxygen,

and are bio-electrically inert, even poisonous. They block the

circulation, hinder cell life.

In addition we eat too much denatured sugar and proteins (and

many other poisons), which prevent normal oxygen circulation,

we take medications - sleeping pills, narcotics, etc. - we are

killing ourselves, or the food/tobacco/pharma/etc. industries

(and the medical world) are killing us.

The consequences are lack of energy, heart insufficiency,

infarctus, muscle degeneration, diabetes, atheriosclerosis,

pneumonia, anaemia, dermatoses, cancer, etc.

About cancer treatment

- Operation increases the frequency of metastases

- Growth-inhibiting irradiations or chemicals do not help, as

there is no excessive growth, but degeneration; they only

weaken the organism even more

- Statistically here is a clear correlation between the density

of doctor population and cancer mortality (Dr. MITTMANN)

The Budwig Treatment (for me):

Massage (twice a day):

To clear the lymphatic system, massage the entire body,

especially the spine, with El-Di (electron-differentiating)

oil, then shower hot for 5 min, soap slightly, and shower

cold for 5 min. Return to bed for 15-60 min.

Eating

(start of treatment, for 4 weeks, recipes and explanations

see below, variations are allowed):

Start with 2-3 days initialization on flaked oats and

250 g Linomel with juice (Fermentgold)

Breakfast

7:00 - 1 glass sauerkraut juice

8:00 - Linomel Müsli, green tea

Morning

10:00 - Fresh pressed carrot juice

Lunch

- Salad with Quark/3 spoons FSO mayonaise

- Fresh vegetables (no cabbage) in water, boiled potatoes, etc.

with Oleolux/herbs or FSO mayonaise

- Buchweizen (x)

- Quark/FSO with honey

Afternoon

15:00 - 1 spoon Linomel in ananas juice

15:30 - 3 spoons Linomel in 3 glasses Fermentgold

Evening

20:00 - Buckwheat porridge in vegetable stock, with

Diäsan, 1 spoon flaked oats

20:30 - 1 glass red wine

Other rules:

Never keep food for the next meal - food must be

prepared fresh

At least 3x per day drink a warm liquid, such as green

tea, herbal tea, sweetened with honey

Write a food diary for next consultation in 4 weeks

No television, cosmetics, smoking

Avoid frozen food, synthetic clothing, stress and anxiety

What I added:

3x fitness training (endurance) + short solarium

1-2 hr bike rides on beautiful days

Tennis if I find a partner

Explanations:

FSO

Flax seed oil (Leinöl), a triple unsaturated,

electrically active fat

Quark

Solid component of non-pasteurized milk after it soured

(separated from the liquid whey)

This is probably not the same as cottage cheese

Quark/FSO mix

100 g Quark, 40 g FSO, 25 g milk (the ratio is very

important) - mix thoroughly.

Start with honey, FSO and milk, add Quark gradually

to obtain a smooth cream, highten with honey, cardamom,

anise, thyme, vamilla, lemon, ananas, dates, etc., or

dill, parsly, majoram, onions, garlic, etc.

FSO mayonaise

3 tablespoons raw milk, 3 tablespoons FSO

100 g Quark

Mix, add sour cucumber, dill, mustard, paprika, lemon

Oleolux

Sauerkraut juice

Linomel

Flax seed, broken between honey-coated cylinders to

cover with honey to prevent oxidation

Buckwheat

??

Linomel Müsli

1 teaspoon honey

3 tablespoons raw mik

3 tablespoons FSO

100 g Quark

2 tablespoons Linomel

Fruit, juice, nuts

Put Linomel in a jar, cover with fruit, put

Quark/FSO on top

Vary every day, experiment

Carrot juice

Contains carotine, provitamin A (no pills)

Fermentgold

Apple juice and Papaya

Diäsan

Cool 125 ccm FSO in fridge (use Pyrex)

Heat 250 g cocos fat with 100 g onion cut

into 4 parts, add 10 garlic cloves (or 50 g walnuts

or 50 g coarse Haferflocken or 50 g whole Buchweizen)

until slight browning.

Pour this fat through a sieve into the cooled FSO,

stir and put into fridge. Keep in fridge.

Use with whole bread, potatoes, etc. - don't heat.

Good food:

Protein:

Milk, Buttermilk, yeast (vitamin

Cheese (Brie, Camembert)

Fat:

Nuts 160

Carbohydrates:

Natural sugars, such as dates, figs, pears, apples,

grapes, etc.

Untreated rice

Whole bread

Fruit

Bananas, Ananas

All types of Gemüse, raw

Prohibited food:

Protein:

White bread

Cakes (sugar/fat combinations)

Meat (treated, hormones, antbiotics, etc)

Fat:

all " normal " fats, margarine, fish oils, mayonaise,

sausage, meat, Lebertran (is treated today)

Carbohydrates:

Sugar, cane sugar

Pasta

I will follow this treatment very seriously, and

report about the results from time to time

Otto

[Guest guest]

From: JR1398@... [mailto:JR1398@...]

Also, as far as the immune system being involved with FM I would think that

the immune system is going to be involved with any condition or disease that

is chronic.

[Patti] maybe. Immune problems are a part of aging too. As a person ages

there is a tendency to shift to Th2 (humoral) dominance. The faster a

person ages, the faster the shift towards Th2 (which is another reason I

think CFS is a form of an early and advanced aging process)

Patti

--

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=866650

<http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=866650>

[Guest guest]

Rich,

Thank you for the wonderful reply to my message today.

You mention the lymph system here, I've heard that it

is an integral part of the immune system and that the

only 'pump' for it is movement/exercise. Do you know

anything about that?

LA

The stuff that initially goes into the lymph system

gets processed by

cells of the immune system as it travels through the

lymph system, and

then gets dumped into the blood stream via the

thoracic duct. This

stuff, plus the stuff that was dumped into the blood

initially and got

processed by immune cells in the blood, all goes to

the liver, and

gets processed there to remove the remaining small

molecules that are

toxic or unneeded. These then either go into the bile

and out in the

stools (if they aren't reabsorbed by the gut, which

unfortunately

happens to some things), or they go back into the

blood and are

carried to the kidneys, where they are go through the

filter in the

glomerulus and enter the urine.

If something is killed in the lumen (open space

inside) of the gut,

such as a yeast overgrowth for example, it is carried

out in the

stools. When I had colorectal cancer, I had a yeast

infection along

with it. I wiped out the yeast with a combination of

anti-yeast

remedies (I think I used six of them at once!), and I

had the blackest

stools for a while that you can imagine! Sorry for

the graphic nature

of this! Too bad I couldn't have gotten rid of the

tumor the same

way! That took a little longer...

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> Rich,

>

> Thank you for the wonderful reply to my message today.

> You mention the lymph system here, I've heard that it

> is an integral part of the immune system and that the

> only 'pump' for it is movement/exercise. Do you know

> anything about that?

>

> LA

Dear LA,

You're welcome. I consulted my physiology books (dated 1996 and 1999), and they

both say that the pumping of the lymph system occurs both by movement/exercise

and by inherent pumping that is built into the lymph system. During exercise,

the lymphatic pumping can increase 10 to 30-fold, so this is clearly the more

powerful of the pumping mechanisms. I think this is one of the reasons why it

is important for PWCs to try to get some, however little, exercise. Other

reasons are to help the pumping of blood in the veins of the legs, and to move

synovial fluid through the joints to provide nutrition for the cartilage. It

would be nice to give the cardiovascular system some support from exercise, too,

but I realize that PWCs should try to avoid getting into aerobic exercise. I

think the oxidizing free radicals that are generated during heavy exercise

damage the proteins and lipids in the muscle cells because there is a shortage

of glutathione to supervise the quenching of free radicals. Based on what Dr.

Cheney says, the shortage of growth hormone would also make it difficult to

replace the damaged proteins. So heavy exercise is not a good idea, but SOME

movement does sound like a good idea.

Rich

[Guest guest]

So for people that can't do much exercise, maybe those gizmos that move

your body are good. Have you seen those? You lie down and put your legs

on them and they wiggle your body and increase the blood flow. Of course,

in my case I'm well enough to exercise, I've just been lazy. But I'm

working up to it.

Cindi

vankonynenburg1@...

12/15/00 03:11 PM

Please respond to

egroups

cc:

Subject: Re: Immune System

> Rich,

>

> Thank you for the wonderful reply to my message today.

> You mention the lymph system here, I've heard that it

> is an integral part of the immune system and that the

> only 'pump' for it is movement/exercise. Do you know

> anything about that?

>

> LA

Dear LA,

You're welcome. I consulted my physiology books (dated 1996 and 1999),

and they both say that the pumping of the lymph system occurs both by

movement/exercise and by inherent pumping that is built into the lymph

system. During exercise, the lymphatic pumping can increase 10 to

30-fold, so this is clearly the more powerful of the pumping mechanisms. I

think this is one of the reasons why it is important for PWCs to try to

get some, however little, exercise. Other reasons are to help the pumping

of blood in the veins of the legs, and to move synovial fluid through the

joints to provide nutrition for the cartilage. It would be nice to give

the cardiovascular system some support from exercise, too, but I realize

that PWCs should try to avoid getting into aerobic exercise. I think the

oxidizing free radicals that are generated during heavy exercise damage

the proteins and lipids in the muscle cells because there is a shortage of

glutathione to supervise the quenching of free radicals. Based on what

Dr. Cheney says, the shortage of growth hormone would also make it

difficult to replace the damaged proteins. So heavy exercise is not a

good idea, but SOME movement does sound like a good idea.

Rich

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Re the below from Rich:

I say this with nothing of the kind of knowledge you have, but since I've

always wondered what in the activity produced symptom increase is

responsible, I've in my naive way felt either it's the release of some

left over " stuff " from hidden virus/bacteria in the muscles OR inability

of us for some reason to clear lactic acid. But given what you're

saying--something I've long known--I wonder if there might be anything

involved in the lymph activating mechanism that though it activiates the

immune system also activates whatever does us in.

Don't need to answer if this is too vague or too bizarre.

Judith

On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:11:15 -0000 vankonynenburg1@... writes:

> Dear LA,

>

> You're welcome. I consulted my physiology books (dated 1996 and

> 1999), and they both say that the pumping of the lymph system occurs

> both by movement/exercise and by inherent pumping that is built into

> the lymph system. During exercise, the lymphatic pumping can

> increase 10 to 30-fold, so this is clearly the more powerful of the

> pumping mechanisms. I think this is one of the reasons why it is

> important for PWCs to try to get some, however little, exercise.

> Other reasons are to help the pumping of blood in the veins of the

> legs, and to move synovial fluid through the joints to provide

> nutrition for the cartilage. It would be nice to give the

> cardiovascular system some support from exercise, too, but I realize

> that PWCs should try to avoid getting into aerobic exercise. I

> think the oxidizing free radicals that are generated during heavy

> exercise damage the proteins and lipids in the muscle cells because

> there is a shortage of glutathione to supervise the quenching of

> free radicals. Based on what Dr. Cheney says, the shortage of

> growth hormone would also make it difficult to replace the damaged

> proteins. So heavy exercise is not a good idea, but SOME movement

> does sound like a good idea.

>

> Rich

>

>

> -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

> with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested

> in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Morning Greg,

At 08:49 AM 08/13/2001 -0400, you wrote:

>I recently read that 80% of the immune system is in the intestines. Does

>anyone know what percentage of that is located in the large intestine vs.

>small intestine?

I think trying to define where the immune system resides is like stating

how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Who cares where it is, as long as it exists and works to 100 % of it

ability.

Think about the new idea of " A brain exist in the gut " . Some

scientist have stated that the gut sends 9 times more messages to the

brain, than the brain sends to the gut.

With that in mind, one could say the immune system resides in the

gut. Of course we all know that the digestive system is the heart of the

immune system and if it gets out of whack, the whole smear goes to pot.

I tell all my genius friends that if they don't learn how to spell

" immune system " they are doomed to a slow and painful death that will

likely come years sooner than they expect.

Back to your original statement, I think 100% of the immune system is in

the digestive system..... Or .... at least dependent on digestive system.

Wayne

[Guest guest]

Morning Greg,

At 08:49 AM 08/13/2001 -0400, you wrote:

>I recently read that 80% of the immune system is in the intestines. Does

>anyone know what percentage of that is located in the large intestine vs.

>small intestine?

I think trying to define where the immune system resides is like stating

how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Who cares where it is, as long as it exists and works to 100 % of it

ability.

Think about the new idea of " A brain exist in the gut " . Some

scientist have stated that the gut sends 9 times more messages to the

brain, than the brain sends to the gut.

With that in mind, one could say the immune system resides in the

gut. Of course we all know that the digestive system is the heart of the

immune system and if it gets out of whack, the whole smear goes to pot.

I tell all my genius friends that if they don't learn how to spell

" immune system " they are doomed to a slow and painful death that will

likely come years sooner than they expect.

Back to your original statement, I think 100% of the immune system is in

the digestive system..... Or .... at least dependent on digestive system.

Wayne

[Guest guest]

Wayne,

The reason I asked about the percentage in the colon is that an individual

had a colostomy recently and says he's feeling better. However, I'm

wondering what lies in store for him if he's lost x % of his immune system,

not counting that they didn't identify the root cause of his colitis, so

whatever is going on there is still going on, to come out in some other way

I presume.

Greg

Re: Immune system

> Morning Greg,

>

> At 08:49 AM 08/13/2001 -0400, you wrote:

> >I recently read that 80% of the immune system is in the intestines. Does

> >anyone know what percentage of that is located in the large intestine vs.

> >small intestine?

>

> I think trying to define where the immune system resides is like

stating

> how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

>

> Who cares where it is, as long as it exists and works to 100 % of it

> ability.

>

> Think about the new idea of " A brain exist in the gut " . Some

> scientist have stated that the gut sends 9 times more messages to the

> brain, than the brain sends to the gut.

>

> With that in mind, one could say the immune system resides in the

> gut. Of course we all know that the digestive system is the heart of the

> immune system and if it gets out of whack, the whole smear goes to pot.

>

> I tell all my genius friends that if they don't learn how to spell

> " immune system " they are doomed to a slow and painful death that will

> likely come years sooner than they expect.

>

> Back to your original statement, I think 100% of the immune system is

in

> the digestive system..... Or .... at least dependent on digestive system.

>

> Wayne

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wayne,

The reason I asked about the percentage in the colon is that an individual

had a colostomy recently and says he's feeling better. However, I'm

wondering what lies in store for him if he's lost x % of his immune system,

not counting that they didn't identify the root cause of his colitis, so

whatever is going on there is still going on, to come out in some other way

I presume.

Greg

Re: Immune system

> Morning Greg,

>

> At 08:49 AM 08/13/2001 -0400, you wrote:

> >I recently read that 80% of the immune system is in the intestines. Does

> >anyone know what percentage of that is located in the large intestine vs.

> >small intestine?

>

> I think trying to define where the immune system resides is like

stating

> how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

>

> Who cares where it is, as long as it exists and works to 100 % of it

> ability.

>

> Think about the new idea of " A brain exist in the gut " . Some

> scientist have stated that the gut sends 9 times more messages to the

> brain, than the brain sends to the gut.

>

> With that in mind, one could say the immune system resides in the

> gut. Of course we all know that the digestive system is the heart of the

> immune system and if it gets out of whack, the whole smear goes to pot.

>

> I tell all my genius friends that if they don't learn how to spell

> " immune system " they are doomed to a slow and painful death that will

> likely come years sooner than they expect.

>

> Back to your original statement, I think 100% of the immune system is

in

> the digestive system..... Or .... at least dependent on digestive system.

>

> Wayne

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Re: Immune system

> I think trying to define where the immune system resides is like

stating

> how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

>

> Who cares where it is, as long as it exists and works to 100 % of it

> ability.

For this very reason, I do not use the word " system " anymore when describing

immunity. I use the phrase " immune FUNCTION, " which is much more accurate.

> Think about the new idea of " A brain exist in the gut " . Some

> scientist have stated that the gut sends 9 times more messages to the

> brain, than the brain sends to the gut.

>

> With that in mind, one could say the immune system resides in the

> gut. Of course we all know that the digestive system is the heart of the

> immune system and if it gets out of whack, the whole smear goes to pot.

As it turns out, the body's immune " function " is EVERYWHERE in the body

(bone marrow, thymus, lymphatic vessels and nodes, etc., in addition to the

gut). We are going to see a great change in the way we perceive the body,

from a linear to a holistic model. I chuckled when I read your posting,

because you are grappling with this transition considering all the new data

we are learning about ourselves.

Regards,

Nina Silver, Ph.D.

Author of THE HANDBOOK OF RIFE FREQUENCY HEALING

Email me for a pre-publication bulk discount good until Sept. 15!

You can read the intro to the Handbook on my website

http://www.heart-of-healing.com

[Guest guest]

Re: Immune system

> I think trying to define where the immune system resides is like

stating

> how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

>

> Who cares where it is, as long as it exists and works to 100 % of it

> ability.

For this very reason, I do not use the word " system " anymore when describing

immunity. I use the phrase " immune FUNCTION, " which is much more accurate.

> Think about the new idea of " A brain exist in the gut " . Some

> scientist have stated that the gut sends 9 times more messages to the

> brain, than the brain sends to the gut.

>

> With that in mind, one could say the immune system resides in the

> gut. Of course we all know that the digestive system is the heart of the

> immune system and if it gets out of whack, the whole smear goes to pot.

As it turns out, the body's immune " function " is EVERYWHERE in the body

(bone marrow, thymus, lymphatic vessels and nodes, etc., in addition to the

gut). We are going to see a great change in the way we perceive the body,

from a linear to a holistic model. I chuckled when I read your posting,

because you are grappling with this transition considering all the new data

we are learning about ourselves.

Regards,

Nina Silver, Ph.D.

Author of THE HANDBOOK OF RIFE FREQUENCY HEALING

Email me for a pre-publication bulk discount good until Sept. 15!

You can read the intro to the Handbook on my website

http://www.heart-of-healing.com

[Guest guest]

Morning Nina,

>For this very reason, I do not use the word " system " anymore when describing

>immunity. I use the phrase " immune FUNCTION, " which is much more accurate.

Sounds logical. Often we apply the word " system " to many

things......too many at times.

Lately, I have been using a new phrase. Being somewhat into control

systems, computers, and software, I have been thinking that the body has

a " control system " . Likely it is responsible for the " immune function "

you reference. And it may even be responsible for the " disease

function " . Of course I can't define this control system. Maybe some day

it can be done.

This idea of the " brain in the gut " caused me to think this way.

>>As it turns out, the body's immune " function " is EVERYWHERE in the body

>(bone marrow, thymus, lymphatic vessels and nodes, etc., in addition to the

>gut). We are going to see a great change in the way we perceive the body,

>from a linear to a holistic model. I chuckled when I read your posting,

>because you are grappling with this transition considering all the new data

>we are learning about ourselves.

Yes, I agree with you. I have been studying this chemical mass for

over 40 years. And.... the more one learns, the more confused he becomes.

Heck, I have so many supplements, if I took one pill from each bottle

in a single day, It might kill me. I have to sort them out, make a battle

plan, and take a group for a week or so, until I decide to try something

else for a time.

I realize this is not a very intelligent plan, but in this great state

of confusion, and tons of information, what else can one do?

A few weeks back, my wife was complaining about my cluttered bar in the

kitchen. She like everything spik and span, and very orderly. I actually

added a folding table at a right angle to the bar to keep all my medical

newsletters and junk mail in a very disorderly fashion. I have several

years of newsletters in ring binders.

Her logic blew my mind !

She made the statement,....... " I don't know why you are doing all

this. It has not helped you

any. Your health has not changed one bit in 40 years " !

I could not believe she said that. All the hassle, many thousands of

dollars spent on books and supplements, many thousands of hours readings,

and it only got me is 40 years of good health !

She finally said, .... what I had been trying to tell her for 40 years.

In my whole life, the only trips to the hospital have been for a

concussion on the head, one nose bleed, one ear implant, and one for

hemorrhoid surgery.

I am trying hard to make the next 40 as good as the last 40.

Wayne

[Guest guest]

The quote below leads me to the question: What basic guidelines can we adapt to

create the most benefit in proper combination of supplements????? Do some

vitamins and/or herbs cancel each others effectiveness? Does anyone have a good

www. source of this specific type of assistance?

Thanks,

Sara

Sent from Wayne to Nina

<snip>

=============================

" " Heck, I have so many supplements, if I took one pill from each bottle

in a single day, It might kill me. I have to sort them out, make a battle

plan, and take a group for a week or so, until I decide to try something

else for a time.

[Guest guest]

Re: Immune system

> Yes, I agree with you. I have been studying this chemical mass for

> over 40 years. And.... the more one learns, the more confused he becomes.

> Heck, I have so many supplements, if I took one pill from each bottle

> in a single day, It might kill me. I have to sort them out, make a battle

> plan, and take a group for a week or so, until I decide to try something

> else for a time.

Good Morning, Wayne.

You are a delightful nut. I do so enjoy your personality. Now to add to

your confusion (anything to help a friend). In regard to your previous

posting about high blood pressure and kidney cleanses. If you want to try a

really uncomplicated one, try the one I used. It, too, is very effective

and dirt cheap. It comes in bulk powder form and the directions are: taked

2 size '00 " campsules 3 times a day for six week longer for severe problems.

I don't do that cause I'm too lazy to cap the powder. Instead I simply put

1/2 tsp. in some water and drink 3 times a day. If interested, here's the

#. (520) 537-4783. Her name is Joy Owens. If she won't ship you any, and

you still want some; let me know, and I'll pick you up some and mail it to

you.

Now in regard to your concern of a heart attack. Do you remember here while

back Rich posting about (and I can't remember the correct medical

terminology) but what it is is too thick blood being the underlining cause

of heart attacks and strokes, even more so than high cholesterol! There is

a lab test you can have to determine if you have this. The treatment is

turmeric. Now I don't know if that would in anyway bring down your BP, but

it could prevent a heart attack. Your story about the bloody nose, makes

me wonder. Might be worth checking out.

>

> I realize this is not a very intelligent plan, but in this great state

> of confusion, and tons of information, what else can one do?

It really does get confusing to me, too.

>

> A few weeks back, my wife was complaining about my cluttered bar in

the

> kitchen. She like everything spik and span, and very orderly. I actually

> added a folding table at a right angle to the bar to keep all my medical

> newsletters and junk mail in a very disorderly fashion. I have several

> years of newsletters in ring binders.

And btw how is you're wife's health?

>

> She finally said, .... what I had been trying to tell her for 40 years.

Maybe she's just a slow learner. I've been known to be one myself.

>

> In my whole life, the only trips to the hospital have been for a

> concussion on the head, one nose bleed, one ear implant, and one for

> hemorrhoid surgery.

>

> I am trying hard to make the next 40 as good as the last 40.

>

> Wayne

>

> And I think you are doing a superb job! Keep up the good work and help

your wife stay healthy, too.

Sincerely,

Gail

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gail, what is the name of the product? Is it only

available through your acquaintance?

Thanks,

Joy

--- Gail Naranjo <mmgg@...> wrote:

>

In

> regard to your previous

> posting about high blood pressure and kidney

> cleanses. If you want to try a

> really uncomplicated one, try the one I used. It,

> too, is very effective

> and dirt cheap. It comes in bulk powder form and

> the directions are: taked

> 2 size '00 " campsules 3 times a day for six week

> longer for severe problems.

> I don't do that cause I'm too lazy to cap the

> powder. Instead I simply put

> 1/2 tsp. in some water and drink 3 times a day. If

> interested, here's the

> #. (520) 537-4783. Her name is Joy Owens. If she

> won't ship you any, and

> you still want some; let me know, and I'll pick you

> up some and mail it to

> you.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Gail, what is the name of the product? Is it only

available through your acquaintance?

Thanks,

Joy

--- Gail Naranjo <mmgg@...> wrote:

>

In

> regard to your previous

> posting about high blood pressure and kidney

> cleanses. If you want to try a

> really uncomplicated one, try the one I used. It,

> too, is very effective

> and dirt cheap. It comes in bulk powder form and

> the directions are: taked

> 2 size '00 " campsules 3 times a day for six week

> longer for severe problems.

> I don't do that cause I'm too lazy to cap the

> powder. Instead I simply put

> 1/2 tsp. in some water and drink 3 times a day. If

> interested, here's the

> #. (520) 537-4783. Her name is Joy Owens. If she

> won't ship you any, and

> you still want some; let me know, and I'll pick you

> up some and mail it to

> you.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Evening Gail,

>> It comes in bulk powder form and the directions are: taked

>2 size '00 " campsules 3 times a day for six week longer for severe problems.

>I don't do that cause I'm too lazy to cap the powder. Instead I simply put

>1/2 tsp. in some water and drink 3 times a day. If interested, here's the

>#. (520) 537-4783. Her name is Joy Owens. If she won't ship you any, and

>you still want some; let me know, and I'll pick you up some and mail it to

>you.

Can you tell us what this powder actually is? It is 3 or 4

ingredients mixed ..... or ?

I think I had rather mix it myself.

>>terminology) but what it is is too thick blood being the underlining cause

>of heart attacks and strokes, even more so than high cholesterol! There is

>a lab test you can have to determine if you have this.

Recently I have read about the fibrogen getting out or balance,

or..... maybe becoming ill mannered.

If it does not act right in every respect, some bad things are likely to

happen.

> The treatment is

>turmeric. Now I don't know if that would in anyway bring down your BP, but

>it could prevent a heart attack. Your story about the bloody nose, makes

>me wonder. Might be worth checking out.

This was a few years ago. ( before I learned better ) I had been

hunting on the week end. I did not feel like hunting, so I would take two

aspirin and force myself to go hunting anyway. I did this all

weekend. Like..... 2 times on Sat and two times on Sunday. I might have

even taken some aspirin on Friday or late Sunday pm. Too much too often.

Not I think one per year is too much too often.

The nose bleed happened on Monday night. And .... you guessed

right. I have not taken a single aspirin since that time. We live and learn.

Fools learn from their own mistakes. A really smart person learns from

the mistakes of others.

>And btw how is you're wife's health?

Not so good. But I have given up helping her. She will not change one

single bad habit.

Seems I am still hung up on fibrogen.

Elevated fibrogen levels indicates an increased tendency towards

clotting.

Something in the back of my mind tells me that there can be things

wrong with the fibrogen other than the actual

level.

Guess I will do some more research.

Wayne

[Guest guest]

Evening Gail,

>> It comes in bulk powder form and the directions are: taked

>2 size '00 " campsules 3 times a day for six week longer for severe problems.

>I don't do that cause I'm too lazy to cap the powder. Instead I simply put

>1/2 tsp. in some water and drink 3 times a day. If interested, here's the

>#. (520) 537-4783. Her name is Joy Owens. If she won't ship you any, and

>you still want some; let me know, and I'll pick you up some and mail it to

>you.

Can you tell us what this powder actually is? It is 3 or 4

ingredients mixed ..... or ?

I think I had rather mix it myself.

>>terminology) but what it is is too thick blood being the underlining cause

>of heart attacks and strokes, even more so than high cholesterol! There is

>a lab test you can have to determine if you have this.

Recently I have read about the fibrogen getting out or balance,

or..... maybe becoming ill mannered.

If it does not act right in every respect, some bad things are likely to

happen.

> The treatment is

>turmeric. Now I don't know if that would in anyway bring down your BP, but

>it could prevent a heart attack. Your story about the bloody nose, makes

>me wonder. Might be worth checking out.

This was a few years ago. ( before I learned better ) I had been

hunting on the week end. I did not feel like hunting, so I would take two

aspirin and force myself to go hunting anyway. I did this all

weekend. Like..... 2 times on Sat and two times on Sunday. I might have

even taken some aspirin on Friday or late Sunday pm. Too much too often.

Not I think one per year is too much too often.

The nose bleed happened on Monday night. And .... you guessed

right. I have not taken a single aspirin since that time. We live and learn.

Fools learn from their own mistakes. A really smart person learns from

the mistakes of others.

>And btw how is you're wife's health?

Not so good. But I have given up helping her. She will not change one

single bad habit.

Seems I am still hung up on fibrogen.

Elevated fibrogen levels indicates an increased tendency towards

clotting.

Something in the back of my mind tells me that there can be things

wrong with the fibrogen other than the actual

level.

Guess I will do some more research.

Wayne

[Guest guest]

From the Biofeedback list today:

In a message dated 12/24/04 2:06:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, BruceZackb@... writes:> In another post I gave the example of EEG changes I have seen during > the developments of colds, flu and bugs. One such changed is > increased slow wave activity. What if this increased slow wave > activity is part of th bodies immune system adaption to fighting off > colds? If so inhibiting slow wave activity and its accompanying > spacyness might have some unintended consquences.> > Is anyone aware of EEG correlates of immune system response. I > recall that there is a stage of sleep associated with body repair > and recuperation(stage 3 or four?)> > Bruce Z. Berman> Sue Othmer will often "predict" that the client may come down with an illness on the basis of such EEG changes. Training down theta under those circumstances doesn't so much cause bad effects as it just wastes everybody's time. We send people home to get well, and tell them to come back to see us once they are on the upswing again. Siegfried Othmer

[Guest guest]

My sister got some kind of bug last week too And it's still around. Her doctor

asked her for a stool

sample too. It didn't hit her hard like a lot of people I have heard about. She

has some diarreah

but has been up and about - traveling and working.

It seems like the more " advanced " they get in medicine. The less they know. I'm

constantly

hearing about people with strange illnesses and such that the doctors run a

million (expensive)

tests for, but can't tell you what it is.

Therese

[Guest guest]

I'd like to know how to make the natural gatorade.

Judy

[Guest guest]

I saw a really interesting article about increasing suspicion of infectious

causes of mental illnesses and Neurodegenerative ones.

I think it was in the " Scientific American MIND "

magazine, current issue.

Katrina

> >

> > This article leaves out a lot of details, but I wonder if anyone

> on this

> > list might want to take a guess at whether this ties in with the

> notion that

> > ALZ is caused by infection?

> >

> > a Carnes

> > Las Vegas, NV

> >

>

>

> Hi a,

> The connection I saw was the Kerr/Baraniuk gene gelsolin - a marker

> of amyloidosis.

>

> Perhaps all of these chronic illnesses are linked to inflammation

> gone awry.

>

> Marti

>

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

I've tried to find out about this elsewhere but can't get an answer so I thought

I'd ask the experts!

To cut a long story short, I became ill aged 19, was diagnosed with ME and my

health continued to worsen until I became bedridden last summer. I saw Dr

Skinner a year ago - he diagnosed me with hypothyroidism and started me on

thyroxine. I am now pretty much back to " normal " health & alternating between

125/150mcg. I am now 25.

The whole time I had " ME " (5 years), I caught one cold and also had the flu once

- I remember both of these because they completely knocked me flat! Since I've

become well again, I've caught everything going. Since last winter, I've had

five colds and two stomach bugs! It seems really strange that now I'm " healthy " ,

I've become some sort of magnet for illnesses, and I can't find any explanation

of why this would happen anywhere. I thought it might just be that there were

more viruses going round this year, but I live with my boyfriend who hasn't

caught anything I've had. Has this happened to anyone else? Any advice would be

much appreciated - I had nine weeks off sick from work last year and would

prefer never to have to call in sick again in my life if I could help it!!

Thanks,

Jen

PS - to those of you who we met at Dr Skinner's hearing, it was lovely to meet

you! hopefully we will get a better outcome in November.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jen:

Is there some reason he has you on synthetic Thyroxine rather than Natural

thyroid meds like Armour or ERFA?

We need to supplement our systems now because we no longer get the nutrients and

vitamins from our foods. Our oceans are contaminated, and our soil is depleted

of nutrients, so our food has nothing in it either. It's just a fact of life

now. For any thyroid/adrenal issues we supplement with Vitamin D3, Vitamin C, V

B12 and a good B complex....We must make sure our Ferritin levels (iron reserve)

is good along with copper, zinc, selenium, and magnesium.

I personally take Wild Oil of Oregano which helps support the system and the

immune system. It's fabulous and many people take it everyday for *what may

come.* I wouldn't be without it. I haven't been sick with the flu for years and

years.

You can buy it here and read the reviews:

http://www.iherb.com/North-American-Herb-Spice-Co-Oreganol-P73-Super-Strength-60\

-Softgels/7712?at=0

More info on Wild Oil of Oregano here:

http://blimey.dreamwidth.org/676.html

Cheers,

JOT

I thought it might just be that there were more viruses going round this year,

but I live with my boyfriend who hasn't caught anything I've had. Has this

happened to anyone else? Any advice would be much appreciated - I had nine weeks

off sick from work last year and would prefer never to have to call in sick

again in my life if I could help it!!

> Jen